From sentto-6247521-803-1021572234-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 16 18:03:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4GI3Mt01262 for ; Thu, 16 May 2002 18:03:22 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-803-1021572234-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2002 18:03:54 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 16 May 2002 18:03:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 85988 invoked from network); 16 May 2002 18:03:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2002 18:03:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2002 18:03:51 -0000 Received: from du-035-0077.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.143.77] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 178PbR-000BD5-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 16 May 2002 19:03:49 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c1fd04$07a2f0a0$4d8f7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:25:09 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: TechTalk 43 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-IMAPbase: 1021493825 2258 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ondine Green" To: Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 12:50 AM Subject: [UCP-List] Re: TechTalk 43 > Thanks to Alex's wonderful achievement in getting the complete series of > KP's TechTalks online, I've been able to read some of his later writings - > and I must say, I'm *very* impressed by #43, "Beyond Me To We". Thanks Ondine, I haven't read that in a while. > > The main problem I've had with most schools of enlightment is that > they're... well, for want of a better word and no offence to anyone who has > loved ones with that condition, *autistic*. They seem to believe that, if > one is enlightened enough, one can get to "cause over the universe" (or > whatever) solely on one's own. Yes, I used to solidly believe that *I* would go extertior, *I* would survive after death, *I* was the be all and end all. Having the good fortune of UCP I disintegrated that nonsense. Since then, most of the *I* that i have seen has just been this lifetime's personality. > > This inevitably leads, I think, to the belief that the highest level of > enlightenment is to be able to live completely in your own hallucinations > and to make them impervious to anything happening outside your own head. Yes, and imagine the horror of living like that, in a void, forever out of time. Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh! ;( ) > Possibly fine if you have someone else to *feed* you and take care of all > your physical-universe needs, but I don't think I'm ready for invalid status > yet! And I've yet to see proof one that anyone can actually *transcend* the > need for a physical body to interact with the physical universe. (Not that > I'd even want to. I *like* this $2.95 material world, most of teh time.) > > I firmly believe that most of reality is created collectively and can only > be changed collectively - and KP seems to be saying that the only way into > the higher reaches is to do the process collectively, that the higher levels > of enlightenment deal with one's interaction with other consciousnesses. Yes, after reading TT 43, I recommend you also read the discussion KP and I had regarding the tones above 10, discussed on this list as "[UCP-List] New Tone Level?". It's kinda like the next installment. > That seems far more sensible and logical to me; also, less dependent on a > very Western concept of the individual as an inviolate, indivisible, > self-sufficient soul (which is where I think Scientology really falls down). Yes, along with the rest of planet earth. With its manic desire for INDIVIDUAL ISOLATION, almost a fait accomplis! > > Comments? Flamage? ;-) > > ondine > Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-804-1021573131-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 16 18:18:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4GIIJg13245 for ; Thu, 16 May 2002 18:18:20 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-804-1021573131-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2002 18:18:51 -0000 X-Sender: dn6246@myrealbox.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 16 May 2002 18:18:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 28547 invoked from network); 16 May 2002 18:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2002 18:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp-send.myrealbox.com) (192.108.102.143) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2002 18:18:50 -0000 Received: from myrealbox.com dn6246@smtp-send.myrealbox.com [172.149.175.253] by smtp-send.myrealbox.com with NIMS SMTP Agent $Revision: 3.6 $ on Novell NetWare; Thu, 16 May 2002 12:18:49 -0600 Message-ID: <3CE3F804.7393F6CD@myrealbox.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ru,uk To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Alex Buksdorf X-Yahoo-Profile: dn6246 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 14:18:44 -0400 Subject: [UCP-List] No More Free E-mail? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 Somebody forwarded this to me. I don't know if this just a rumour or not. Alex B. > Hey everybody, > I was forwarded this information and I just had to > share, is this really true? > > POSTAGE INCREASE: > > Postage will go up the end of June 2002 from 34 > cents to 37 cents. It will be from 9% to 12% rate > increase. > > But this isn't all. No more free E-mail! We > knew > this was coming - Bill 602P will permit the Federal > Government to charge a 5-cent charge on every > delivered > E-mail. > > Please read the following carefully if you > intend to > stay online and continue using E-mail. The last few > months have revealed an alarming trend in the > Government > of the United States attempting to quietly push > through > legislation that will affect our use of the > Internet. > > Under proposed legislation, the US Postal > Service > will be attempting to bill E-mail users out > of "alternative postage fees." Bill 602P will > permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent > surcharge on every e-mail delivered, by billing > Internet > Service Providers at source. The consumer would then > be > billed in turn by the ISP. > > Washington DC lawyer Richard Stepp is working > without pay to prevent this legislation from > becoming > law. The US Postal Service is claiming lost revenue, > due > to the proliferation of E-mail, is costing nearly > $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You may have > noticed > their recent ad campaign: > "There is nothing like a letter." > > Since the average person received about 10 > pieces of > E-mail per day in 1998, the cost of the typical > individual would be an additional 50 cents a day or > over > $180 per year -- above and beyond their regular > Internet > costs. Note that this would be money paid directly > to > the US Postal Service for a service they do not even > provide. The whole point of the Internet is > democracy > and noninterference. You are already paying an > exorbitant > price for snail mail because of bureaucratic > inefficiency. > > It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to > be > delivered from coast to coast. If the US Postal > Service > is allowed to tinker with E-mail it will mark the > end of > the "free" Internet in the United States. > Congressional > representative, Tony Schnell (R) has even suggested > a "$20-$40 per month surcharge on all Internet > service" > above and beyond the governments proposed E-mail > charges. Note that most of the major newspapers have > ignored the story the only exception being the > Washingtonian which called the idea of E-mail > surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" > (March > 6th, 1999 Editorial) > > Do not sit by and watch your freedom erode away! > > Send this E-mail to EVERYONE on your list, and > tell > all your friends and relatives to write their > congressional representative and say "NO" to > Bill 602P. It will only take a few moments of your > time > and could very well be instrumental in killing a > bill we > do not want. PLEASE FORWARD! -- ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-805-1021577512-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 16 19:31:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4GJVK517164 for ; Thu, 16 May 2002 19:31:20 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-805-1021577512-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2002 19:31:52 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 16 May 2002 19:31:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 93935 invoked from network); 16 May 2002 19:31:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2002 19:31:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.84) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2002 19:31:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.175] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2002 19:31:50 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3CE3F804.7393F6CD@myrealbox.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 19:31:49 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: No More Free E-mail? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 11 --- In ucplist@y..., Alex Buksdorf wrote: > Somebody forwarded this to me. > I don't know if this just a rumour or not. > > Alex B. > It's a chain mail at least 5 years old (a bit updated). Amazing, how it survived all those years. more at http://www.urbanlegends.com/ulz/xemailtax.html Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-806-1021578512-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 16 19:48:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4GJm0529523 for ; Thu, 16 May 2002 19:48:01 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-806-1021578512-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2002 19:48:33 -0000 X-Sender: hydragon@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 16 May 2002 19:48:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 298 invoked from network); 16 May 2002 19:48:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2002 19:48:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2002 19:48:31 -0000 Received: (from hydragon@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4GJlrs16310 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 16 May 2002 19:47:53 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20020516194753.A25518@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG> References: <3CE3F804.7393F6CD@myrealbox.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <3CE3F804.7393F6CD@myrealbox.com>; from dn6246@myrealbox.com on Thu, May 16, 2002 at 02:18:44PM -0400 From: "A. Hydragon" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 19:47:53 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] No More Free E-mail? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 12 On Thu, May 16, 2002 at 02:18:44PM -0400, Alex Buksdorf wrote: > Somebody forwarded this to me. > I don't know if this just a rumour or not. > > Alex B. It's a hoax/virus. Pass it on. :) *-hydragon-* ------------------------------------------ Directory Searched the web for email tax hoax. Results 1 - 10 of about 11,300. Search took 0.30 seconds. Bill 602P Hoax & Toll Charges for Internet Access ... The United States Congress is considering a 5 cent tax on email. See the warnings here. More recent versions of the hoax have added on a warning about that ... www.urbanlegends.com/ulz/emailtax.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages Internet / Email Tax Hoaxes ... of this hoax borrows from the older tax hoaxes. This version of the email tax hoax reads as follows: Subject: US stamps for e-mails Please read the following ... www.stiller.com/inttax.htm - 15k - Cached - Similar pages Bill 602P 5-Cent Postal Tax on Email - Netlore Archive - Federal ... ... debated the nonexistent federal bill on October 8, 2000. (If it's any consolation, they both came out against it.) See "Email Tax Hoax Fouls NY Senate Debate.". ... urbanlegends.about.com/library/blemtax2.htm - 32k - 15 May 2002 - Cached - Similar pages Bill 602P Email Tax Hoax Fouls NY Senate Debate ... Email Tax Hoax Fouls NY Senate Debate. Further Adventures of 'Bill 602P'. Related Resources. ... Elsewhere on the Web. ... urbanlegends.about.com/library/blnydebate.htm - 32k - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from urbanlegends.about.com ] [ TenVolt Distractions. Email Tax Hoax ] ... Chain Letter Hoax: A Tax on E-mail. You may have received ... chain letter on; it is a hoax. Subject: CDN Gov't Plans to Charge 5 cents per email (per Bill 602P). ... www.tenvolt.com/distractions/taxhoax.htm - 26k - Cached - Similar pages CNN.com - Tax on e-mail? Long-running hoax endures - April 1, ... Skip to main content. CNN.com, Tax on e-mail? Long-running hoax endures. (CNN ... www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/internet/04/01/e.mail.hoax/ - 14k - Cached - Similar pages KK Campbell: "Post Office email tax" hoax -- April 28 1999 ... WORLD'S GREATEST RUMOR MILL STRIKES AGAIN "Post Office email tax" a hoax that rips across the country. ... www.kkc.net/toronto-star/1999/ts0428.shtml - 19k - Cached - Similar pages Email Tax Hoax SESSIONS DISPELS RUMORS OF E-MAIL TAX. (WASHINGTON) US Congressman Pete Sessions (R-Dallas ... www.house.gov/sessions/press/00-07-06-emailtax.htm - 6k - Cached - Similar pages Washingtonian Online - The e-mail tax is a hoax. It's false. Not ... ... E-MAIL TAX IS A HOAX. ... The message that is apparently out over the Internet about an "editorial" by The Washingtonian supporting an e-mail tax is a hoax. ... www.washingtonian.com/about/emailhoax.html - 5k - Cached - Similar pages "FCC Modem Tax" Hoax - UM Virus Busters Virus Busters Home. The FCC Modem Tax Email Warning Is A Hoax. by Bruce P. Burrell (bpb@umich.edu) for the UM Virus Busters (virus.busters@umich.edu) ... www.itd.umich.edu/virusbusters/hoaxes/fcc.html - 5k - Cached - Similar pages Result Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next _______________________________ Google Search Search within results Dissatisfied with your results? Help us improve. Try your query on: AltaVista Excite Lycos Yahoo! _________________________________________________________________ Google Home - Advertise with Us - Search Solutions - News and Resources - Language Tools - Jobs, Press, Cool Stuff... ©2002 Google -- hydragon@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-807-1021587075-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 16 22:10:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4GMAhW21016 for ; Thu, 16 May 2002 22:10:43 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-807-1021587075-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2002 22:11:15 -0000 X-Sender: navigator10@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 16 May 2002 22:11:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 41672 invoked from network); 16 May 2002 22:11:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2002 22:11:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.85) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2002 22:11:13 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2002 22:11:12 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "mrnavigator10" X-Originating-IP: 213.122.198.1 X-Yahoo-Profile: mrnavigator10 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 22:11:12 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: A Cool experience Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 --- In ucplist@y..., "bkrawage" wrote: > > Yesterday for the first time in about 8 days I had a 24 minute > session. I have been diagnosed with diabetes so I've pretty much been > working on my diet and cutting back on sugar and other really good > foods. So I let my sessions slide for a bit... > > Anyway getting back in session was very cool and again I had some > major cogs. For example today driving home from a clients offices > about 28 miles from home I experienced an awareness of self so > comfortable it was like nothing else I had ever experienced before > and best of all it happened purely on automatic. I just realized I > was aware and I was aware. I hope that makes sense!! > > Anyway thought I'd share that experience it was just extremely cool. > > BK Very cool and your win is very real to me BK I have had similar experiences and I totally know what you mean. Sooner or later that crration of yours will persist..if you want it to. Best N10 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-808-1021588054-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 16 22:27:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.89]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4GMR2W02102 for ; Thu, 16 May 2002 22:27:02 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-808-1021588054-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 May 2002 22:27:34 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 16 May 2002 22:27:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 70093 invoked from network); 16 May 2002 22:27:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 May 2002 22:27:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.20) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 May 2002 22:27:31 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 May 2002 15:27:30 -0700 Received: from 130.195.196.201 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 May 2002 22:27:30 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 May 2002 22:27:30.0847 (UTC) FILETIME=[DE04F2F0:01C1FD28] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [130.195.196.201] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 22:27:30 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: We now have a co-witness page Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 14 >From: Net Prophet >Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com >To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: We now have a co-witness page >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 00:04:20 -0700 > >Justin wrote: > >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > >> Netscape isn't seeing the site properly for me. > > > >When i first checked it out this morning on netscape > >communicator 4.73 i had the same problem. T >I'm using Netscape 4.79. > >BUT, if I use Internet Explorer, I *DO* see the text! I'm finding exactly the same thing; when I got home and checked it out on IE, it works fine. I'd like to congratulate Justin on his page; we need more of those. I think I'll get one together myself, as soon as I've finished the four thousand other things I want to do. ;-) I also want to add that I think he's doing exactly the right thing by completely disassociating UCP from Scientology. If we *really* want to get this discovery out there, the last thing we want to do is to give the impression that we're linked to scienos or ex-scienos. That market is far too small, anyway; which is why the break from a.c.t might be the beginning of proper expansion. ondine _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-809-1021599723-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 01:41:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4H1fVk10029 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 01:41:31 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-809-1021599723-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 01:42:03 -0000 X-Sender: justintonation@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 01:42:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 36347 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 01:42:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 01:42:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.69) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 01:42:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.166] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 01:42:02 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020516160511.A1879@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "justintonation" X-Originating-IP: 63.60.243.133 X-Yahoo-Profile: justintonation MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 01:42:01 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: We now have a co-witness page Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 15 --- In ucplist@y..., "A. Hydragon" wrote: > On Thu, May 16, 2002 at 12:04:20AM -0700, Net Prophet wrote: > > Justin wrote: > > >> > > >> Justin wrote: > > >> >http://universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ > > >> > > >> Netscape isn't seeing the site properly for me. > > > > > >When i first checked it out this morning on netscape > > >communicator 4.73 i had the same problem. The page had no > > >text on it. Now when I look at it it is fine. I have no idea what the > > >problem is or was. If it happenns again please tell me what > > >version of netscape you were using. Very strange. > > > > > >Justin > > > > > > I checked it again and still don't see text. > > If I VIEW / PAGE SOURCE I see it, but > > it still does not display on the page itself. > > > > I'm using Netscape 4.79. > > > > BUT, if I use Internet Explorer, I *DO* see the text! > > > > It's probably my original garbage code, produced by > > Frontpage 98, updated by Frontpage 2000, and then > > eaten and spit out by whatever HTML editor you use, > > which is the problem. It's amazing that it works at all! Hi Hydragon, thanks for the info. I just downloaded mactidy and will get cleaning pronto. : ) Justin P.S Ondine! You put your email address in the url section on the co-witness page. Do you want me to put it in the correct place place for you? > The bravepages HTML does not have a DOCTYPE declaration at the beginning. > Without that some browsers will become confused, the results > unpredictable. > > It's easy enough to remedy. Either snarf and patch one in, or better yet > -- get the utility "Tidy" from W3.org and run the code through that. > Tidy will not only put in the proper headers, but fix code errors too. > > *-hydragon-* > -- > hydragon@s... > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-810-1021606191-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 03:29:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4H3TJ614713 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 03:29:19 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-810-1021606191-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 03:29:52 -0000 X-Sender: hydragon@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 03:29:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 58744 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 03:29:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 03:29:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 03:29:50 -0000 Received: (from hydragon@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4H3TBw12484 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 17 May 2002 03:29:11 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20020517032911.A25281@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG> References: <20020516160511.A1879@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG> User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from justintonation@hotmail.com on Fri, May 17, 2002 at 01:42:01AM -0000 From: "A. Hydragon" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 03:29:11 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: We now have a co-witness page Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 16 On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 01:42:01AM -0000, justintonation wrote: > Hi Hydragon, thanks for the info. > > I just downloaded mactidy and will get cleaning pronto. : ) > > Justin You are welcome, Justin. And thanks for the website. It's both beautiful and useful. The flavor will be much sweeter for folks that do not have a background of Scn. I see a resource to take UCP mainstream. *-hydragon-* > > The bravepages HTML does not have a DOCTYPE declaration > at the beginning. > > Without that some browsers will become confused, the results > > unpredictable. > > > > It's easy enough to remedy. Either snarf and patch one in, or > better yet > > -- get the utility "Tidy" from W3.org and run the code through > that. > > Tidy will not only put in the proper headers, but fix code errors > too. -- hydragon@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-811-1021618287-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 06:50:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4H6osu01166 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 06:50:54 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-811-1021618287-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 06:51:27 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 06:51:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 6948 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 06:51:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 06:51:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 06:51:25 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.157]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA14357 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 01:50:33 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020516234732.010dce40@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 23:47:32 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: TechTalk 43 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 18 At 11:50 PM 5/15/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Thanks to Alex's wonderful achievement in getting the complete series of >KP's TechTalks online, BRAVO! >I've been able to read some of his later writings - >and I must say, I'm *very* impressed by #43, "Beyond Me To We". Way Cool! >The main problem I've had with most schools of enlightment is that >they're... well, for want of a better word and no offence to anyone who has >loved ones with that condition, *autistic*. They seem to believe that, if >one is enlightened enough, one can get to "cause over the universe" (or >whatever) solely on one's own. Yes! >This inevitably leads, I think, to the belief that the highest level of >enlightenment is to be able to live completely in your own hallucinations >and to make them impervious to anything happening outside your own head. >Possibly fine if you have someone else to *feed* you and take care of all >your physical-universe needs, but I don't think I'm ready for invalid status >yet! And I've yet to see proof one that anyone can actually *transcend* the >need for a physical body to interact with the physical universe. (Not that >I'd even want to. I *like* this $2.95 material world, most of teh time.) Yes. >I firmly believe that most of reality is created collectively and can only >be changed collectively - and KP seems to be saying that the only way into >the higher reaches is to do the process collectively, that the higher levels >of enlightenment deal with one's interaction with other consciousnesses. That's how it seems to me now. The ongoing emergence of the UCPeony reflects that. >That seems far more sensible and logical to me; also, less dependent on a >very Western concept of the individual as an inviolate, indivisible, >self-sufficient soul (which is where I think Scientology really falls down). > >Comments? Flamage? ;-) > >ondine Way Cool! KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-812-1021634447-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 11:20:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HBKJR12835 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 11:20:19 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-812-1021634447-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 11:20:47 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 11:20:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 6648 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 11:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 11:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 11:20:46 -0000 Received: from du-031-0230.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.230] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 178fmu-000Iy7-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 17 May 2002 12:20:44 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c1fd94$e2445240$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: <006f01c1fc32$15e0c160$d98f7ed4@oemcomputer> <3CE3AE2B.C989363C@directus.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 19:31:53 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Oleg's Wisdom Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 19 ----- Original Message ----- From: "judy" To: Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Oleg's Wisdom > Hi Neal, > > Your words stroke a familiar note in me. :) > > "I did not have equanimity or acceptance. I tried to > but failed." > > Also your comment about how life keeps putting forth the same issues > until there is some resolution. > > That has certainly been the case for me Excellent.... so pray tell? > and I hope you will write more > about this. So give me something to respond to. :-) > > Judy > Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-813-1021636182-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 11:49:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HBn9R28956 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 11:49:09 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-813-1021636182-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 11:49:42 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 11:49:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 65930 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 11:49:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 11:49:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 11:49:40 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.65] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A058ADD2010A; Fri, 17 May 2002 07:58:16 -0400 Message-ID: <3CE4EE50.CB30FC82@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <006f01c1fc32$15e0c160$d98f7ed4@oemcomputer> <3CE3AE2B.C989363C@directus.net> <000b01c1fd94$e2445240$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:49:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Oleg's Wisdom Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 20 Hi Neal, When reading your note about giving you something to respond to I realized that I am just not ready yet for that sort of self disclosure but I do appreciate your interest. I did give some thought to just how automatic my responses are and that my perception is frequently far from accurate. I thought about the experiences that keep reoccurring. I reflected upon ways that my ego has no wisdom at all and seems to be in control of me rather than the opposite. I particularly thought about this as I recalled experiences/incidenses from the past where I had lousy judgment. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-814-1021645122-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 14:18:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HEI9H18191 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 14:18:09 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-814-1021645122-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 14:18:42 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 14:18:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 4403 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 14:18:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 14:18:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 14:18:39 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.165]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA28549 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 09:17:58 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020517071502.010ed820@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CE4EE50.CB30FC82@directus.net> References: <006f01c1fc32$15e0c160$d98f7ed4@oemcomputer> <3CE3AE2B.C989363C@directus.net> <000b01c1fd94$e2445240$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:15:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Oleg's Wisdom Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 21 Judy wrote: >Hi Neal, > >When reading your note about giving you something to respond to I >realized that I am just not ready yet for that sort of self disclosure >but I do appreciate your interest. OK. You HAVE told us: ================== you had cancer you had chemo you had radiation you stopped radiation you have done some UCP you have an adult son you are not ready for "that sort" of self disclosure I'd say you've given us LOTS to respond to! I'm curious how you think you are NOT disclosing your self. And WHY how you FEEL about all this is apparently "private". >I did give some thought to just how automatic my responses >are and that my perception is frequently far from accurate. Excellent! That MIGHT BE a very ACCURATE perception! And move you rapidly forward! >I thought about the experiences that keep reoccurring. Excellent! They are . . . where you ARE! >I reflected upon ways that my ego has no wisdom at all >and seems to be in control of me rather than the opposite. Excellent! Where might you be? >I particularly thought about this as I recalled >experiences/incidenses from the past where I had lousy judgment. > >Judy Sounds to me like a VERY fertile field for self-disclosure . . . to YOURSELF! Offhand, I'd say you are starting to get the knack of doing UCP effectively. You may not have resolved much yet, but you are definitely *LOOKING* in the right direction! Best Wishes, KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-815-1021656961-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 17:37:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.65]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HHb3b17405 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 17:37:04 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-815-1021656961-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 17:37:35 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 17:35:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 19639 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 17:35:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 17:35:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 17:35:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.175] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 17:35:58 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <000b01c1fd94$e2445240$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 17:35:57 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 22 This phrase in Judy's post(was it a quote from somewhere?) really struck me: > "I did not have equanimity or acceptance. I tried to > but failed." It was really true, for sure I have done that for the longest time...and yet this pharse almost has a ring of an oxymoron to it. "I won't touch metric system with a 304cm pole" kind of a deal :) So what's up with this little snippet? Is there indeed an internal contradiction? IMHO, there is. If one is trying and failing there must be some resistance. One is fighting with something. And that is a direct opposite of acceptance. Here one is trying to accept everything and everybody on an equal basis. Everybody, that is, except him/herself! *This* person gets a very special and a very harsh treatment. That's just unfair! And equanimity is all about being fair, isn't it? Here's a quote from a interesting little book called "Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment" by Thaddeus Golas (read it at http://www.lcars.eu.org/sarah.peter.nelson/lazyman) "But if you look calmly at undesired events, absorb them mentally, and **love yourself for disliking them**, you will keep going higher." I think the guy speaketh the truth. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-816-1021665167-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 19:52:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HJqEj13461 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 19:52:14 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-816-1021665167-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 19:52:48 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 19:52:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 3056 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 19:11:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 19:11:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 19:11:06 -0000 Received: from du-031-0179.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.179] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 178n84-0009ii-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 17 May 2002 20:11:04 +0100 Message-ID: <013601c1fdd6$958da040$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: "UCP List" References: <006f01c1fc32$15e0c160$d98f7ed4@oemcomputer> <3CE3AE2B.C989363C@directus.net> <000b01c1fd94$e2445240$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> <3CE4EE50.CB30FC82@directus.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:19:55 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Oleg's Wisdom Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 24 ----- Original Message ----- From: "judy" To: Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 12:49 PM Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Oleg's Wisdom > Hi Neal, > > When reading your note about giving you something to respond to I > realized that I am just not ready yet for that sort of self disclosure Ooops, you just did tell me something quite profound. :) Hehe, ve hef many vays of making you talk! ;_( )) > but I do appreciate your interest. OK, its just another area of potential learning, for you and me both, and for all the readers! You are a unique individual and no one else has seen what you have seen from your viewpoint. > > I did give some thought to just how automatic my responses are and that > my perception is frequently far from accurate. Cool, so you are already looking and seeing things about yourself. The statement above gives you something to compare to.....You're on your way! :) > I thought about the > experiences that keep reoccurring. I reflected upon ways that my ego > has no wisdom at all and seems to be in control of me rather than the > opposite. What do *you* mean when you refer to the 'ego'? i.e. what is your concept/understanding of the term? please no dictionary defs! And how is that distinguished from *you*? Remebering of course that there are NO wrong answers! > I particularly thought about this as I recalled > experiences/incidenses from the past where I had lousy judgment. We all could probably say we have lousy judgement with the benefit of hindsight, but it is the quality of hindsight that provides new opportunities to discover something new about ourselves. Much like you have described above. So you did tell us about you after all. :) > > Judy And just to hammer the point home, I almost didn't post my reply to you (the last reply on this thread), as I didn't have much to say or respond to. However now we've got something else going......way cool! Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-817-1021665295-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 19:54:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HJsPj14876 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 19:54:26 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-817-1021665295-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 19:54:57 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 19:54:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 35765 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 19:39:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 19:39:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 19:39:46 -0000 Received: by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g4HJd7Z01710; Fri, 17 May 2002 19:39:07 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:39:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 25 On Fri, 17 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: From: "punkfloyd.rm" > This phrase in Judy's post(was it a quote from somewhere?) really > struck me: > > > "I did not have equanimity or acceptance. I tried to > > but failed." > > It was really true, for sure I have done that for the longest > time...and yet this pharse almost has a ring of an oxymoron to it. "I ^^^^^^ > won't touch metric system with a 304cm pole" kind of a deal :) Good one, Oleg! Whether intentional or dyslexic, I'll add that one to my vocabulary. ;) > So what's up with this little snippet? Is there indeed an internal > contradiction? IMHO, there is. If one is trying and failing there > must be some resistance. One is fighting with something. And that is > a direct opposite of acceptance. > > Here one is trying to accept everything and everybody on an equal > basis. Everybody, that is, except him/herself! *This* person gets a > very special and a very harsh treatment. That's just unfair! And > equanimity is all about being fair, isn't it? Yes, yes -- all this turmoil is going on. All this rationalization, negotiation, idealism, failure in manifesting ideals, etc. But who is witnessing all this? By comparing this (present) with what used to be or what might be, one detatches, gets unstuck from this junk. The fundamental "contradiction" is really a duality: the being experiencing the objects of his creation. (Many of his thought-objects are in conflict). > Here's a quote from a interesting little book called "Lazy Man's > Guide to Enlightenment" by Thaddeus Golas (read it at > http://www.lcars.eu.org/sarah.peter.nelson/lazyman) > > "But if you look calmly at undesired events, absorb them mentally, > and **love yourself for disliking them**, you will keep going higher." Yes, that's lovely. But there's a further point. Who's doing the loving is who you really are. That's the witness, peeping into this world of time and turmoil. > I think the guy speaketh the truth. Probably too lazy to lie. . . Light, abner > Best, > Oleg abner@sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-818-1021665541-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 20:02:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HK27j21890 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 20:02:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-818-1021665541-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 19:59:02 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 19:59:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 13079 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 19:58:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 19:58:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 19:58:59 -0000 Received: from du-031-0216.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.216] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 178nsQ-000EUX-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 17 May 2002 20:58:58 +0100 Message-ID: <016001c1fddd$463717e0$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: "UCP List" References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 20:57:55 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 26 ----- Original Message ----- From: "punkfloyd.rm" To: Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 6:35 PM Subject: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance > This phrase in Judy's post(was it a quote from somewhere?) really > struck me: Sorry! I'll say it quieter next time. ;-) > > > "I did not have equanimity or acceptance. I tried to > > but failed." > > It was really true, for sure I have done that for the longest > time...and yet this pharse almost has a ring of an oxymoron to it. "I > won't touch metric system with a 304cm pole" kind of a deal :) Yes. Read the original post from me to you, I was paying you a compliment! Thread: Oleg's Wisdom Date: 15/05/02 Time: 18:01 > > So what's up with this little snippet? Is there indeed an internal > contradiction? IMHO, there is. If one is trying and failing there > must be some resistance. One is fighting with something. And that is > a direct opposite of acceptance. Exactly. That was the point I was making. > > Here one is trying to accept everything and everybody on an equal > basis. Not exactly what I was describing. I was comparing two experiences and the statement you quote was as a result of that. > Everybody, that is, except him/herself! *This* person gets a > very special and a very harsh treatment. That's just unfair! And > equanimity is all about being fair, isn't it? No. It's about balance and composure. Remaining undisturbed by an experience. Letting the ripples pass without doing *something* to them. A quote from one of the after session discussion between KP and myself ------------------start quote------------------ [me] >A lot of what I am experiencing now relates back to my new found 'inner peace'. [KP] Way Cool! One hopes the walls are built upon the foundation! >That term tho is inadequate. It is more like the difference between >ease and dis-ease. By ease I mean less prone to ripples, to be affected by >external sources/forces etc. No dampening fields required.:-) Yes. The ocean is NOT concerned that waves may damage it! >I also got to looking at flows, specifically inward flows and how these are >handled differently depending on how much identity/non-identity there is. >That the more identity, personality/attitudes/wonky bits, the more a flow >will be changed, and the less identity, the more a flow will just be >reflected or allowed to pass without change. Like on the Four Conditions >scale of ALTER-ISNESS and ISNESS. ------------------end quote------------------ > > Here's a quote from a interesting little book called "Lazy Man's > Guide to Enlightenment" by Thaddeus Golas (read it at > http://www.lcars.eu.org/sarah.peter.nelson/lazyman) > > "But if you look calmly at undesired events, absorb them mentally, > and **love yourself for disliking them**, you will keep going higher." > > I think the guy speaketh the truth. I disagree. One can only look calmly at events if one can look calmly at events, which is dependent upon beingness. That beingness is reflected in the physical universe by what we DO (as who we are). Equanimity and acceptance only come about through a change in beingness, because by examination and integration of the compulsions and hidden influences in our lives, one no longer has to compulsively *affect* what is experienced. i.e. acceptance or allowing to be as it is. I am always wary of affirmation as it is an effort to change beingness through belief, and I'm sure we're all familiar with the effects this has in the realm of duality. > > Best, > Oleg Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-819-1021670974-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 21:29:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HLT3m02419 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 21:29:03 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-819-1021670974-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 21:29:35 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 21:29:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 68878 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 21:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 21:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 21:29:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.158] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 21:29:31 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:29:30 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 28 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > It was really true, for sure I have done that for the longest > > time...and yet this pharse almost has a ring of an oxymoron to it. "I > ^^^^^^ > > won't touch metric system with a 304cm pole" kind of a deal :) > > Good one, Oleg! Whether intentional or dyslexic, I'll add that one to my > vocabulary. ;) It's the dyslexic one :) > > > So what's up with this little snippet? Is there indeed an internal > > contradiction? IMHO, there is. If one is trying and failing there > > must be some resistance. One is fighting with something. And that is > > a direct opposite of acceptance. > > > > Here one is trying to accept everything and everybody on an equal > > basis. Everybody, that is, except him/herself! *This* person gets a > > very special and a very harsh treatment. That's just unfair! And > > equanimity is all about being fair, isn't it? > > Yes, yes -- all this turmoil is going on. All this rationalization, > negotiation, idealism, failure in manifesting ideals, etc. But who is > witnessing all this? Obvious answer: Me. But that's too boring. So, lately I have been thinking the situation is even more straightforward than that: Witnessing simply happens. Asking "who is witnessing what?" is like asking "Where a worm's head ends and the tail begins?" (yeah, I know worms are not very appetizing analogy, but it's hard to find an appealing and clear metaphor. Substitute Humpty-Dumpty if you like) And another litarary quote: "Everything is in the hands of Allah" "But don't forget, the entire world, including Allah, is in the mind of Buddha!" "Yes, but the mind of Buddha is in the hands of Allah." V.Pelevin (quoting by memory) > By comparing this (present) with what used to be or > what might be, one detatches, gets unstuck from this junk. Or, to go with the worm analogy, compare the head of a worm to its tail long enough, and you'll find the worm :) > > The fundamental "contradiction" is really a duality: the being > experiencing the objects of his creation. > Or duality between cause and effect. Or between worm's head and worm's tail =) > (Many of his thought-objects are in conflict). Yes and no. Conflicts are also a consideration. If a tree falls in a forest and noone sees it, is there a conflict? :) > > Here's a quote from a interesting little book called "Lazy Man's > > Guide to Enlightenment" by Thaddeus Golas (read it at > > http://www.lcars.eu.org/sarah.peter.nelson/lazyman) > > > > "But if you look calmly at undesired events, absorb them mentally, > > and **love yourself for disliking them**, you will keep going higher." > > Yes, that's lovely. But there's a further point. Who's doing the loving is > who you really are. Loving aka acceptance, IMHO, is not something you actively *do*. It's just an absence of resistance. Therefore a lover is not needed. Like Aikido - you don't throw the attacker, you just cease to resist his natural tendency to fall. If you are not there at all, even better! > That's the witness, peeping into this world of time > and turmoil. All while enthusiastically creating it. A lovely situation indeed :) > > > I think the guy speaketh the truth. > > Probably too lazy to lie. . . LSD does that to you =) Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-820-1021672845-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 22:00:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HM0Bm27434 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 22:00:11 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-820-1021672845-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 22:00:45 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 22:00:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 66427 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 22:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 22:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.84) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 22:00:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.133] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 22:00:44 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <016001c1fddd$463717e0$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:00:42 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 29 --- In ucplist@y..., "Neal Pardoe" wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "punkfloyd.rm" > > > This phrase in Judy's post(was it a quote from somewhere?) really > > struck me: > > Sorry! I'll say it quieter next time. ;-) Oh, I didn't realize she was quoting you. I thought it was from some book or something. > > > "I did not have equanimity or acceptance. I tried to > > > but failed." > > > > It was really true, for sure I have done that for the longest > > time...and yet this pharse almost has a ring of an oxymoron to it. "I > > won't touch metric system with a 304cm pole" kind of a deal :) > > Yes. Read the original post from me to you, I was paying you a compliment! I appreciate that! > > > > > Here one is trying to accept everything and everybody on an equal > > basis. > > Not exactly what I was describing. I was comparing two experiences and the > statement you quote was as a result of that. Ok. Things look different out of context. > > > Everybody, that is, except him/herself! *This* person gets a > > very special and a very harsh treatment. That's just unfair! And > > equanimity is all about being fair, isn't it? > > No. It's about balance and composure. Remaining undisturbed by an > experience. Letting the ripples pass without doing *something* to them. Yes, my point simply was: If you *still* find yourself doing something to the ripples, don't do something to THAT! :) > > "But if you look calmly at undesired events, absorb them mentally, > > and **love yourself for disliking them**, you will keep going higher." > > > > I think the guy speaketh the truth. > > I disagree. > > One can only look calmly at events if one can look calmly at events, which > is dependent upon beingness. Of course. "The thing that used to worry him most was the fact that people always used to ask him what he was looking so worried about." - D.Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. > > That beingness is reflected in the physical universe by what we DO (as who > we are). > > Equanimity and acceptance only come about through a change in beingness, > because by examination and integration of the compulsions and hidden > influences in our lives, one no longer has to compulsively *affect* what is > experienced. i.e. acceptance or allowing to be as it is. And one of the steps in the integration is no longer having to compulsively fight the compulsion. It doesn't mean you have to give in, just not add to the already impressive array of compulsions and inhibitions we all carry. The choice between giving in and compulsively doing something is not a really good choice anyway. > > I am always wary of affirmation as it is an effort to change beingness > through belief, and I'm sure we're all familiar with the effects this has in > the realm of duality. Ok, I understand what you were arguing against. Let me assure you that's not what I meant at all. I was talking about not-doing, affirmation, inhibition, supression, denial and so on are all forms of *doing*. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-821-1021673617-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 22:13:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HMD3B08740 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 22:13:03 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-821-1021673617-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 22:13:37 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 22:13:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 68234 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 22:13:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 22:13:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.74) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 22:13:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 22:13:35 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 22:13:35 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] A quote Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 30 "Part of his brain told him that he knew perfectly well what he was looking at and what the shapes represented while another quite sensibly refused to countenance the idea and abdicated responsibility for any further thinking in that direction." >From Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams. Happens to me every UCP session :) Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-822-1021674584-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 22:29:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HMTBB21032 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 22:29:11 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-822-1021674584-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 22:29:44 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 22:29:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 5006 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 22:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 22:29:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 22:29:42 -0000 Received: from du-035-0139.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.143.139] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 178qEG-000KMK-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Fri, 17 May 2002 23:29:41 +0100 Message-ID: <01c601c1fdf2$53bb95c0$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:29:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] A quote Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 31 ----- Original Message ----- From: "punkfloyd.rm" To: Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 11:13 PM Subject: [UCP-List] A quote > "Part of his brain told him that he knew perfectly well what he was > looking at and what the shapes represented while another quite > sensibly refused to countenance the idea and abdicated responsibility > for any further thinking in that direction." > > From Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams. > > Happens to me every UCP session :) > > Best, > Oleg > Hey! Glad to see your a Douglas Adams fan. Way Cool dude! Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-823-1021676216-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 22:56:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HMuMB11692 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 22:56:22 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-823-1021676216-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 22:56:56 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 22:56:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 44522 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 22:56:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 22:56:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 22:56:53 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.177] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id ACB7FE20148; Fri, 17 May 2002 19:05:27 -0400 Message-ID: <3CE58AB1.DAC45879@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 18:56:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 33 Hi Oleg, Those are indeed words of wisdom: You said. "Here one is trying to accept everything and everybody on an equal basis. Everybody, that is, except him/herself! *This* person gets a very special and a very harsh treatment. That's just unfair! And equanimity is all about being fair, isn't it?" Guilty as charged! I was not the one who originally made the statement:"I did not have equanimity or acceptance. I tried to but failed." I did respond to this by saying this was my goal also and that I fail. I have come across the Lazy Man's Guide to Enlightenment and will go to the site you were nice enough to include and read it again. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-824-1021677144-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 23:11:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HNBpc26005 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 23:11:51 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-824-1021677144-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 23:12:24 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 23:12:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 71095 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 23:12:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 23:12:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 23:12:22 -0000 Received: from du-031-0143.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.143] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 178qtY-000La0-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 18 May 2002 00:12:21 +0100 Message-ID: <020101c1fdf8$4965a740$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 23:51:11 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 34 ----- Original Message ----- From: "punkfloyd.rm" To: Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance -----------------big snip----------------- [Oleg] > Loving aka acceptance, IMHO, is not something you actively *do*. It's > just an absence of resistance. Therefore a lover is not needed. Exactly. Love along with Joy, Compassion and Equanimity, the four Wholesome states of Buddhism, are *qualities* of the soul. They are qualities that for me came about as a *natural* phenomena while progressing with UCP. They are not qualities that we can 'work on' so to speak. One has them because one *IS* them, i.e. nature of spirit! Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-825-1021677145-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 23:11:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HNBpc26009 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 23:11:51 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-825-1021677145-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 23:12:25 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 23:12:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 50802 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 23:12:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 23:12:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 23:12:23 -0000 Received: from du-031-0143.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.143] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 178qta-000La0-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 18 May 2002 00:12:22 +0100 Message-ID: <020201c1fdf8$4a3fdaa0$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 00:10:24 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 35 ----- Original Message ----- From: "punkfloyd.rm" To: Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance > --- In ucplist@y..., "Neal Pardoe" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "punkfloyd.rm" > > > > > This phrase in Judy's post(was it a quote from somewhere?) really > > > struck me: > > > > Sorry! I'll say it quieter next time. ;-) > > Oh, I didn't realize she was quoting you. I thought it was from some > book or something. That's OK! > > > > > "I did not have equanimity or acceptance. I tried to > > > > but failed." > > > > > > It was really true, for sure I have done that for the longest > > > time...and yet this pharse almost has a ring of an oxymoron to > it. "I > > > won't touch metric system with a 304cm pole" kind of a deal :) > > > > Yes. Read the original post from me to you, I was paying you a > compliment! > > I appreciate that! Cool! > > > > > > > > > Here one is trying to accept everything and everybody on an equal > > > basis. > > > > Not exactly what I was describing. I was comparing two experiences > and the > > statement you quote was as a result of that. > > Ok. Things look different out of context. Yes.Which is why UCPeons look to see all that is possible or relevent. > > > > > > Everybody, that is, except him/herself! *This* person gets a > > > very special and a very harsh treatment. That's just unfair! And > > > equanimity is all about being fair, isn't it? > > > > No. It's about balance and composure. Remaining undisturbed by an > > experience. Letting the ripples pass without doing *something* to > them. > > Yes, my point simply was: If you *still* find yourself doing > something to the ripples, then there is some hidden influence that requires examination and integration. > don't do something to THAT! :) but look and integrate. :) > > > > > > "But if you look calmly at undesired events, absorb them mentally, > > > and **love yourself for disliking them**, you will keep going > higher." > > > > > > I think the guy speaketh the truth. > > > > I disagree. > > > > One can only look calmly at events if one can look calmly at > events, which > > is dependent upon beingness. > > Of course. > > "The thing that used to worry him most was the fact that people > always used to ask him what he was looking so worried about." > - D.Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Love your quotes from D.A! One of my favourite story tellers. ;_( )) I think I only ever quoted him once from Dirk Gently Holistic Detective Agency and the interconnectedness of all things. > > > > > > That beingness is reflected in the physical universe by what we DO > (as who > > we are). > > > > Equanimity and acceptance only come about through a change in > beingness, > > because by examination and integration of the compulsions and hidden > > influences in our lives, one no longer has to compulsively *affect* > what is > > experienced. i.e. acceptance or allowing to be as it is. > > And one of the steps in the integration is no longer having to > compulsively fight the compulsion. It doesn't mean you have to give > in, just not add to the already impressive array of compulsions and > inhibitions we all carry. Yes. > > The choice between giving in and compulsively doing something is not > a really good choice anyway. In fact no choice? > > > > > I am always wary of affirmation as it is an effort to change > beingness > > through belief, and I'm sure we're all familiar with the effects > this has in > > the realm of duality. > > Ok, I understand what you were arguing against. Let me assure you > that's not what I meant at all. Not to worry, I did understand you were making a distinction between equanimity/acceptance and *doing. Just commenting on some aspects of your post. :) > I was talking about not-doing, > affirmation, inhibition, supression, denial and so on are all forms > of *doing*. > > Best, > Oleg > Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-826-1021677460-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 23:17:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HNH7c01844 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 23:17:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-826-1021677460-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 23:17:40 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 23:17:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 69132 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 23:17:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 23:17:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 23:17:39 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.177] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A195B71A0150; Fri, 17 May 2002 19:26:13 -0400 Message-ID: <3CE58F8F.72F7AF52@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <006f01c1fc32$15e0c160$d98f7ed4@oemcomputer> <3CE3AE2B.C989363C@directus.net> <000b01c1fd94$e2445240$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> <3CE4EE50.CB30FC82@directus.net> <013601c1fdd6$958da040$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:17:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Oleg's Wisdom Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 36 Love your humor, Neal. "Hehe, ve hef many vays of making you talk! ;_( ))" Okay, my first impulse was to pull down a dictionary and get the exact definition, but since you asked me not to do that here are my thoughts and none of these are original. I see the ego as being a part of the personality structure, different from the superego and the id. The ego contains all kinds of defensives to protect one from the full impact of things which one is not ready to take into awareness as it would be too threatening to the ego. It attempts to make one feel better by using defenses. A favorite of mine is overcompensation but I am usually unaware that I am using this maneuver. Many of the defenseses are unconscious but can come into awareness with effort and in the right setting. Sometimes, these come into play in the form of hallucinations or delusions and it is generally thought that psychotics need a fuller range of defenses which would decrease the necessity to utilize just these few. It is also thought that their ego development is faulty. However, more and more there is the opinion that this is a biological condition rather than a psychological one and I am inclined to agree. Some describe the ego as the adult part of a person and it is thought to be a helpful part. I have read that within us is a 'wisdom' that we frequently don't access as we are too busy with distractions. This wisdom is nothing that I have read about in any psy. class or psy. books, but I have come across it in eastern philosophy/spirituality. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-827-1021678109-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 17 23:27:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4HNRvc09556 for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 23:27:57 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-827-1021678109-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 May 2002 23:28:31 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 17 May 2002 23:28:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 14291 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 23:28:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 17 May 2002 23:28:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 23:28:25 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.177] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A41B4E59010E; Fri, 17 May 2002 19:36:59 -0400 Message-ID: <3CE59214.D1048C4D@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <016001c1fddd$463717e0$e68e7ed4@oemcomputer> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:28:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 37 Hey Neal, You said: I also got to looking at flows, specifically inward flows and how these are >handled differently depending on how much identity/non-identity there is. >That the more identity, personality/attitudes/wonky bits, the more a flow >will be changed, and the less identity, the more a flow will just be >reflected or allowed to pass without change. Like on the Four Conditions >scale of ALTER-ISNESS and ISNESS. Okay, I will be like the woman in the shampoo commercials. "Yes, Yes, Give me More" Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-828-1021682071-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 00:33:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4I0Xvh05747 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 00:33:57 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-828-1021682071-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 00:34:31 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 00:34:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 98707 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 00:34:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 00:34:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 00:34:28 -0000 Received: from du-031-0049.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.49] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 178sAz-000O1P-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 18 May 2002 01:34:25 +0100 Message-ID: <002601c1fe03$c11f5e60$318e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: "UCP List" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:34:17 +0100 Subject: [UCP-List] For Judy (and anyone else) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 38 Hey Judy, This was the original post. It is one of many... my session write ups to a.c.t and KP's response/comments. It took the place of the after session discussion as I was doing UCP solo. I had a ball! As you will see. :) p.s. I'll respond tomorrow to your other post. Thanks for the response. >>ORIGINAL POST INFO<< DATE: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:25:31 -0000 MESSAGE ID: <1011965186.13149.0@eurus.uk.clara.net> NEWSGROUP: alt.clearing.technology THREAD: UCP SESSION 25/01/02 POSTER: "Neal Pardoe" Session Time: 1h 04m Theme: Assumptions (the spiritual kind) and Identities Awareness Level. ENLIGHTENMENT. Tone: ILLUMINATION Where do I start? It is getting more difficult to put into words what I am experiencing as a result of my sessions now. Mainly because words are not really adequate for the job. A lot of what I am experiencing now relates back to my new found 'inner peace'. That term tho is inadequate. It is more like the difference between ease and dis-ease. By ease I mean less prone to ripples, to be affected by external sources/forces etc. No dampening fields required.:-) Very much what the session theme was all about. The tone/awareness came out at ILLUMINATION/ENLIGHTENMENT, but I also noticed how these seem to be the + harmonics (perhaps almost as opposites) of HIDING/GLEE. Perhaps HIDING/GLEE should be at - 9 on the Chart? The main interest of the session related to IDENTITY, as in the assumption of a body/identity. How this seems to be very much a switch from ease to dis-ease and how unnatural it felt, until I had become accustomed to it. That experiences validate the identity, and eventually the identity feels natural. How misleading and confusing! I also got to looking at flows, specifically inward flows and how these are handled differently depending on how much identity/non-identity there is. That the more identity, personality/attitudes/wonky bits, the more a flow will be changed, and the less identity, the more a flow will just be reflected or allowed to pass without change. Like on the Four Conditions scale of ALTER-ISNESS and ISNESS. I have also noticed more and more recently less and less attention on ME. The identity of ME seems to be slowly dissolving. Sounds a bit funny that. Like I said words are sometimes inadequate, cos this is not a negative at all, quite the opposite! Perhaps I could put it that I am becoming simpler as in less complex. Correspondingly to the above, I have more attention on others, my relationship to them and what I do/can do in relation to them. Maybe that is partly because I have little concern for myself anymore, and also because I am expanding my sphere of influence, it is a definite and quite welcome shift of attention. I looked at my dictionary for definitions of illumination and enlightenment, and disappointingly they are synonyms for each other! The dictionary doesn't take into account the difference between an emotional feeling and an awareness or way of seeing things. To me illumination means revelation. It is closely related to enlightenment, but I don't know how to describe it as an emotional feeling. It is not what I thought it was, the best I can do is to describe it as a calm revelation. That the less personality there is ( attitudes/compulsions...) the less there is to cause ripples (both inward and outward) and the more it is possible to see what is there. Like ripples on a lake make it more difficult to see the reflected image, compared to a calm lake that just reflects what is there. (Homers favourite theetie weetie should like that.) Again this part has really helped me to make sense of all this. Havingness. KP, on looking across the chart, I find that the top plus emotion band for the 5 - 10 emotional tones doesn't fit for me. What do you think about a new entry for that band - Harmony? as a new sub-level of emotion. -- Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- ===================== KONCHOK KOMMENTS ========================== >Session Time: 1h 04m >Theme: Assumptions (the spiritual kind) and Identities >Awareness Level. ENLIGHTENMENT. >Tone: ILLUMINATION > >Where do I start? Where you ARE? >It is getting more difficult to put into words what I am experiencing as a >result of my sessions now. Mainly because words are not really adequate for >the job. Since I hit ORIENTATION, the expectations that I was formerly oriented to have dissolved. >A lot of what I am experiencing now relates back to my new found 'inner peace'. Way Cool! One hopes the walls are built upon the foundation! >That term tho is inadequate. It is more like the difference between >ease and dis-ease. By ease I mean less prone to ripples, to be affected by >external sources/forces etc. No dampening fields required.:-) Yes. The ocean is NOT concerned that waves may damage it! >Very much what the session theme was all about. > >The tone/awareness came out at ILLUMINATION/ENLIGHTENMENT, but I also >noticed how these seem to be the + harmonics (perhaps almost as opposites) >of HIDING/GLEE. Perhaps HIDING/GLEE should be at - 9 on the Chart? Perhaps? I don't know. Perhaps the tone levels of -7, and -9 should be examined more closely? What would the reflections of +7 and +9 be in the cesspool mirror? >The main interest of the session related to IDENTITY, as in the assumption >of a body/identity. Or the ASSOCIATION of the BODY with the SELF? I've been looking at body/self as an area of shifting attention or focus. I used to shift them from foreground to background. Now I'm trying to broaden my attention so I am NOT FOCUSED on one or the other. Perhaps if you have no focus you have no orientation? Is focus itself an aberration created as the solution to a problem? >How this seems to be very much a switch from ease to dis-ease >and how unnatural it felt, until I had become accustomed to it. Every change has an awkward phase? >That experiences validate the identity, and eventually the >identity feels natural. How misleading and confusing! Unexpected perception changes! >I also got to looking at flows, specifically inward flows and how these are >handled differently depending on how much identity/non-identity there is. >That the more identity, personality/attitudes/wonky bits, the more a flow >will be changed, and the less identity, the more a flow will just be >reflected or allowed to pass without change. Like on the Four Conditions >scale of ALTER-ISNESS and ISNESS. Way Cool! >I have also noticed more and more recently less and less attention on ME. Once ME is KNOWN, the attention moves on to . . . US! >The identity of ME seems to be slowly dissolving. Sounds a bit funny that. The iceberg discovers the . . . OCEAN! And starts to explore his relationship to it! >Like I said words are sometimes inadequate, cos this is not a negative at >all, quite the opposite! Perhaps I could put it that I am becoming simpler >as in less complex. I understand what you are talking about. Your sense of SELF WITHIN is pretty solid by +5. Then you discover your sense of self in US by your ASSOCIATIONS with other parts of the universe. That includes your body, your activities, . . . and others' bodies and activities. >Correspondingly to the above, I have more attention on others, my >relationship to them and what I do/can do in relation to them. Yes! SELF + ELSE = ALL >Maybe that is partly because I have little concern for myself anymore, Yes. Below death, your attention is mostly directed INWARD to the weird stuff you are doing IN your own universe. Above 5 your attention is not INTROVERTED, but EXTROVERTED. >and also because I am expanding my sphere of influence, >it is a definite and quite welcome shift of attention. Yes. The pattern of relationships between actual viewpoints is the upper harmonic of the pattern of relationships between SUPPOSITORY IFS down in below death THINK and DUB-IN. >I looked at my dictionary for definitions of illumination and enlightenment, >and disappointingly they are synonyms for each other! The dictionary doesn't >take into account the difference between an emotional feeling and an >awareness or way of seeing things. Sometimes I can't separate them either. >To me illumination means revelation. It is closely related to enlightenment, >but I don't know how to describe it as an emotional feeling. Because it's a DIFFERENT kind of emotion than you have experienced. It's an emotion in the grand sense of "Emotional Tone Scale", but not in the sense of plus-emotion vs. minus-emotion. The emotions OF YOUR SELF are in the 0 to 5 band. Above that you are looking at the interractions of yourself with others. Looking at the reflections in the 0 to -5 and -5 to -10 bands might clarify the areas. >It is not what >I thought it was, the best I can do is to describe it as a calm revelation. Way Cool! >That the less personality there is ( attitudes/compulsions...) the less >there is to cause ripples (both inward and outward) and the more it is >possible to see what is there. Like ripples on a lake make it more difficult >to see the reflected image, compared to a calm lake that just reflects what >is there. (Homers favourite theetie weetie should like that.) Yes. >Again this part has really helped me to make sense of all this. Havingness. YES. Directly HAVING something rather than FEELING *ABOUT* IT. That directly relates to the HAVE vs HAD reflection below zero. >KP, on looking across the chart, I find that the top plus emotion >band for the 5 - 10 emotional tones doesn't fit for me. I agree. It seemed awkward, but I had not seen what was better yet. >What do you think about a new >entry for that band - Harmony? >as a new sub-level of emotion. *I LIKE IT!* It's an excellent contrast to the lower harmonic of ENEMY between -5 and -10. Thanks for writing. Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM RIGHT, NOW! DO UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical Writer Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Clearing Process: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ Innovative Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ #################################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ TEST THE UNIVERSAL CLEARING PROCESS: COMPARE PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! DOWNLOAD THE FREE UCP VIRTUAL WITNESS: YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! #################################################### Your fine contribution to UCP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! @ net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UCP *USENET* POSTS @ alt.clearing.technology Thanks to homer@lightlink.com for ISP support plus ACT + ARS Free News: Server = news2.lightlink.com Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-829-1021686418-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 01:46:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4I1kOk24246 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 01:46:24 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-829-1021686418-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 01:46:58 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 01:46:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 97785 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 01:46:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 01:46:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.213) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 01:46:57 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 17 May 2002 18:46:57 -0700 Received: from 203.79.70.128 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 18 May 2002 01:46:56 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 May 2002 01:46:57.0010 (UTC) FILETIME=[E4D24520:01C1FE0D] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [203.79.70.128] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 01:46:56 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: TechTalk 43 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 >From: "Neal Pardoe" > > This inevitably leads, I think, to the belief that the highest level of > > enlightenment is to be able to live completely in your own >hallucinations > > and to make them impervious to anything happening outside your own head. > >Yes, and imagine the horror of living like that, in a void, forever out of >time. > >Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh! ;( ) Heh. Has anyone else here seen the Japanese animated film, _End of Evangelion_? Neal's comment above reminded me of how that movie ended. *shudder* But I can heartily recommend that film, and the TV series which produced it, _Neon Genesis Evangelion_ - wonderful philosophical speculation combined with big-ass robots smashing things. ;-) >Yes, after reading TT 43, I recommend you also read the discussion KP and I >had regarding the tones above 10, discussed on this list as "[UCP-List] New >Tone Level?". It's kinda like the next installment. Thanks for the reference. It's good to see that tones 10-15 aren't just theoretical; can't wait until we have first-hand knowledge of up to 20 and beyond. ;-) I do have personal knowledge of how tones 6-8 work, mainly because I'm in a *very* good relationship... Couple more points: - Yes, Justin, feel free to edit my hastily scrambled submission. ;-) - UCP In Daily Life, instalment #94: I flaked out at my aikido training this morning and had to leave because someone turned up to train whom I really can't stand. My partner was with me, and I flaked out even more when I tried to explain how upset I was and she told me to save it until we got home. Thinking about it, I remembered *when I'd felt like that before*. In the first instance, this guy in particular had made some harrassing comments to me, which reminded me of being 14 and being on the constant receiving end of sexual harrassment from several of the older boys. (I was a very closeted baby-dyke at that stage, of course, and it petrified me that maybe they *knew* and thus thought I was Fair Game...) In the second instant, being told to be quiet about being upset reminded me of the secrecy imposed on me by a rather abusive childhood - the idea that if people knew that nasty things were happening to you, they'd realise that you were a bad horrible evil person and consequently abuse you some more. So, I was able to see how I was dealing with emotions from at least thirteen years ago which were superimposing themselves on the Now, but really had nothing to do with it. The next step is of course to look to the future... well, I'll tell you how that worked out once I see whether I've managed to properly integrate it in real-world behaviour. ;-) ondine _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-830-1021694563-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 04:02:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4I42AT15152 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 04:02:10 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-830-1021694563-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 04:02:43 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 04:02:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 51766 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 04:02:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 04:02:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 04:02:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.191] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 04:02:42 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.193.245 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 04:02:42 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: TechTalk 43 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 40 --- In ucplist@y..., "Ondine Green" wrote: > > - UCP In Daily Life, instalment #94: I flaked out at my aikido training this > morning and had to leave because someone turned up to train whom I really > can't stand. My partner was with me, and I flaked out even more when I tried > to explain how upset I was and she told me to save it until we got home. > Hi! I am sorry to hear about your upset but it's very cool to see a fellow Aikidoka on the list. I must say exposure to this art was a big boost for my processing. The idea of "going with the flow" yet fully contrlling the situation is very powerful even outside the martial arts realm. This is, IMHO, is what we are shooting for in UCP, but we try to apply it to entire life :) Best, Oleg "The best aikido fight is when you and your opponent meet, shake hands and go have a beer together - katatetori beernage" My friend ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-831-1021697363-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 04:48:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4I4mnP11084 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 04:48:49 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-831-1021697363-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 04:49:23 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 04:49:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 87029 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 04:49:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 04:49:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 04:49:21 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g4I4mf211073; Sat, 18 May 2002 04:48:41 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 04:48:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 41 On Fri, 17 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > > It was really true, for sure I have done that for the longest > > > time...and yet this pharse almost has a ring of an oxymoron to > > > it. "I won't touch metric system with a 304cm pole" kind of a deal :) > > > > Good one, Oleg! Whether intentional or dyslexic, I'll add that one > > to my vocabulary. ;) > > It's the dyslexic one :) > > > > > > So what's up with this little snippet? Is there indeed an internal > > > contradiction? IMHO, there is. If one is trying and failing there > > > must be some resistance. One is fighting with something. And that > > > is a direct opposite of acceptance. > > > > > > Here one is trying to accept everything and everybody on an equal > > > basis. Everybody, that is, except him/herself! *This* person gets > > > a very special and a very harsh treatment. That's just unfair! And > > > equanimity is all about being fair, isn't it? > > > > Yes, yes -- all this turmoil is going on. All this rationalization, > > negotiation, idealism, failure in manifesting ideals, etc. But who > > is witnessing all this? > > Obvious answer: Me. > > But that's too boring. So, lately I have been thinking the situation > is even more straightforward than that: Witnessing simply happens. > Asking "who is witnessing what?" is like asking "Where a worm's head > ends and the tail begins?" I see your point. However if one is tempted, from time-to-time, to put some legs on that worm. . . Language ultimately fails; not only because words are ambiguous, but because identity is ambiguous. Life is always and forever and at the same time always dying and always borning. It matters -- and at the same time does not matter which side you express. As Lao Tse puts it: Oftentimes one strips oneself of passion in order to see the Secret of Life Oftentimes one regards life with passion in order to see its manifest forms. These two (the Secret and its manifestations) Are (in their nature) the same. They are given different names when they become manifest. They may both be called the Cosmic Mystery: Reaching from the Mystery into the Deeper Mystery is the Gate to the Secret of All Life. > (yeah, I know worms are not very appetizing analogy, but it's hard to > find an appealing and clear metaphor. Substitute Humpty-Dumpty if you > like) > > And another litarary quote: > "Everything is in the hands of Allah" > "But don't forget, the entire world, including Allah, is in the mind > of Buddha!" > "Yes, but the mind of Buddha is in the hands of Allah." > V.Pelevin (quoting by memory) If you can hold this intently enough it might just shoot you through the roof! > > By comparing this (present) with what used to be or > > what might be, one detatches, gets unstuck from this junk. > > Or, to go with the worm analogy, compare the head of a worm to its > tail long enough, and you'll find the worm :) Don't forget the wormhole ;) > > The fundamental "contradiction" is really a duality: the being > > experiencing the objects of his creation. > > > > Or duality between cause and effect. Or between worm's head and > worm's tail =) In Newton's world, cause and effect are arbitrarily named. One effect is cause for the next effect and so on, forward or backward in time. But perpendicular to this linear stream of events, which I am pleased to call Creation, or Total Effect, is the world of Creator, or Total Cause, which in reality is the world we inhabit. Cause and effect in the sense it is usually used is just tags on a process of manifest effect. Science is arrogant because it somehow can't grok that. > > (Many of his thought-objects are in conflict). > > Yes and no. Conflicts are also a consideration. If a tree falls in a > forest and noone sees it, is there a conflict? :) The key word here is "many" ;) > > > Here's a quote from a interesting little book called "Lazy Man's > > > Guide to Enlightenment" by Thaddeus Golas (read it at > > > http://www.lcars.eu.org/sarah.peter.nelson/lazyman) > > > > > > "But if you look calmly at undesired events, absorb them mentally, > > > and **love yourself for disliking them**, you will keep going > higher." > > > > Yes, that's lovely. But there's a further point. Who's doing the > > loving is who you really are. > > Loving aka acceptance, IMHO, is not something you actively *do*. It's > just an absence of resistance. Therefore a lover is not needed. All are melted into love alone. . . > Like Aikido - you don't throw the attacker, you just cease to resist > his natural tendency to fall. If you are not there at all, even > better! > > > That's the witness, peeping into this world of time and turmoil. > > All while enthusiastically creating it. A lovely situation indeed :) > > > > > > I think the guy speaketh the truth. > > > > Probably too lazy to lie. . . > > LSD does that to you =) To whom? I have told some excellent lies on LSD. But that is another story for another time. ;) A most enjoyable conversation! Thanks- abner > Best, > Oleg abner@sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-832-1021697957-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 04:58:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4I4whP16207 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 04:58:43 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-832-1021697957-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 04:59:17 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 04:59:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 37514 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 04:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 04:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (64.4.19.93) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 04:59:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 17 May 2002 21:59:16 -0700 Received: from 203.79.109.242 by lw12fd.law12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 18 May 2002 04:59:15 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 May 2002 04:59:16.0235 (UTC) FILETIME=[C2BC45B0:01C1FE28] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [203.79.109.242] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 04:59:15 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] aikido Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 42 >it's very cool to see a >fellow Aikidoka on the list. Definitely. I've been training for just over two years now and I think I'm beginning to get the "feel" to some extent. >I must say exposure to this art was a >big boost for my processing. The idea of "going with the flow" yet >fully contrlling the situation is very powerful even outside the >martial arts realm. Hmmm. Well, I don't know that the defending partner in an aikido throw is *controlling* the situation... it seems to me that my best aikido is when I just get out of the way. ;-) >This is, IMHO, is what we are shooting for in >UCP, but we try to apply it to entire life :) Oh, yes. Definitely - there are great overlaps between the arts. Interestingly enough, my sensei describe aikido as a Taoist art, so maybe that's a nice counterbalance to all the Buddhism we seem to bew getting around here. >"The best aikido fight is when you and your opponent meet, shake >hands and go have a beer together - katatetori beernage" >My friend "Aikido makes the beer taste better" - some wiseasses in San Francisco ;-) But that was the main reason I blew training today, of course - I was worried that I might actually *hurt* this guy who just happened to be in the way of some of my own nasty energy from 15 years ago. ondine _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-833-1021708508-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 07:54:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4I7sYk12511 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 07:54:34 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-833-1021708508-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 07:55:08 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 07:55:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 40173 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 07:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 07:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 07:55:06 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.192]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA17473 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 02:55:00 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020518005118.00b12040@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 00:51:18 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ucp.ath.cx Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4I7sYk12511 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 43 At 09:34 AM 5/15/2002 -0000, you wrote: >Hi > >Help me test this... > >Add the news host ucp.ath.cx to your news reader and see if alt.ucp >is there. > >If it works... hurray! If not then 80( I'll try again. > >Note: this server, if it works, will not be online always so my >advice is... if it doesn't work try later; perhaps next day. > >Best Wishes, > >Alexander Køpke I've tried this several times now, but can't get it. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-834-1021720870-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 11:20:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4IBKZ514402 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 11:20:36 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-834-1021720870-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 11:21:10 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 11:21:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 93826 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 11:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 11:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 11:21:08 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.181] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 11:21:08 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020518005118.00b12040@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 11:21:06 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ucp.ath.cx Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4IBKZ514402 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 44 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > At 09:34 AM 5/15/2002 -0000, you wrote: > >Hi > > > >Help me test this... > > > >Add the news host ucp.ath.cx to your news reader and see if alt.ucp > >is there. > > > >If it works... hurray! If not then 80( I'll try again. > > > >Note: this server, if it works, will not be online always so my > >advice is... if it doesn't work try later; perhaps next day. > > > >Best Wishes, > > > >Alexander Køpke > > > I've tried this several times now, but can't get it. > > > KP Please state the time i.e. was it today? I'm sorry today I forgot to start it up... there you go! I'll have it open the next 9 hours or so... Please try again! Thank you!! Anyway... you are the first who responded but if it works for you it will w= ork for others as well... It works on my own computer but maybe it's different... BW, AK PS. in central europe the time is now 13.19 or 1.19 pm. What are the time differences?? ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-835-1021729194-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 13:39:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.90]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4IDdKb28736 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 13:39:20 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-835-1021729194-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 13:39:54 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 13:39:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 68293 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 13:39:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 13:39:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 13:39:53 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.192]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA03711 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 08:39:51 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020518063533.00c92ff8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020518005118.00b12040@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 06:35:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ucp.ath.cx Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4IDdKb28736 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 45 Alexander Kopke wrote: >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: >> At 09:34 AM 5/15/2002 -0000, you wrote: >> >Hi >> > >> >Help me test this... >> > >> >Add the news host ucp.ath.cx to your news reader and see if alt.ucp >> >is there. >> > >> >If it works... hurray! If not then 80( I'll try again. >> > >> >Note: this server, if it works, will not be online always so my >> >advice is... if it doesn't work try later; perhaps next day. >> > >> >Best Wishes, >> > >> >Alexander Køpke >> >> >> I've tried this several times now, but can't get it. >> >> >> KP > >Please state the time i.e. was it today? > >I'm sorry today I forgot to start it up... there you go! > >I'll have it open the next 9 hours or so... Please try again! > >Thank you!! > >Anyway... you are the first who responded but if it works for you it will w= >ork for others as well... > >It works on my own computer but maybe it's different... > >BW, > >AK > >PS. in central europe the time is now 13.19 or 1.19 pm. > >What are the time differences?? I just tried now and it's not working for me. It's 6:30 am which is zulu time minus 8 hours on the west coast of the US. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-836-1021729801-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 13:49:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4IDnRb05381 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 13:49:27 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-836-1021729801-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 13:50:01 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 13:50:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 39232 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 13:50:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 13:50:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 13:50:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.173] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 13:49:58 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020518063533.00c92ff8@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 13:49:57 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: ucp.ath.cx Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4IDnRb05381 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > > > Alexander Kopke wrote: > >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > >> At 09:34 AM 5/15/2002 -0000, you wrote: > >> >Hi > >> > > >> >Help me test this... > >> > > >> >Add the news host ucp.ath.cx to your news reader and see if alt.ucp > >> >is there. > >> > > >> >If it works... hurray! If not then 80( I'll try again. > >> > > >> >Note: this server, if it works, will not be online always so my > >> >advice is... if it doesn't work try later; perhaps next day. > >> > > >> >Best Wishes, > >> > > >> >Alexander Køpke > >> > >> > >> I've tried this several times now, but can't get it. > >> > >> > >> KP > > > >Please state the time i.e. was it today? > > > >I'm sorry today I forgot to start it up... there you go! > > > >I'll have it open the next 9 hours or so... Please try again! > > > >Thank you!! > > > >Anyway... you are the first who responded but if it works for you it wil= l w= > >ork for others as well... > > > >It works on my own computer but maybe it's different... > > > >BW, > > > >AK > > > >PS. in central europe the time is now 13.19 or 1.19 pm. > > > >What are the time differences?? > > I just tried now and it's not working for me. > > It's 6:30 am which is zulu time minus > 8 hours on the west coast of the US. > > > KP Ok.. Hmmm... perhaps my isp has block the port 119(default) I have now changed it to 120.... please change the port to 120 and try again. Thanks for your help. 80) BW, AK ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-837-1021732034-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 14:26:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4IEQew29908 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 14:26:40 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-837-1021732034-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 14:27:14 -0000 X-Sender: hydragon@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 14:27:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 7971 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 14:27:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 14:27:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 14:27:13 -0000 Received: (from hydragon@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4IEQXA08274 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 18 May 2002 14:26:33 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20020518142633.A22631@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG> References: <3.0.6.32.20020518063533.00c92ff8@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from luccerveau@yahoo.com on Sat, May 18, 2002 at 01:49:57PM -0000 From: "A. Hydragon" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 14:26:33 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: ucp.ath.cx Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 48 On Sat, May 18, 2002 at 01:49:57PM -0000, LucCerveau wrote: > > >PS. in central europe the time is now 13.19 or 1.19 pm. > > > > > >What are the time differences?? > > > > I just tried now and it's not working for me. > > > > It's 6:30 am which is zulu time minus > > 8 hours on the west coast of the US. > > > > > > KP > > Ok.. > > Hmmm... perhaps my isp has block the port 119(default) > > I have now changed it to 120.... > > please change the port to 120 and try again. > > Thanks for your help. 80) I just tried several times for both ports on different ISPs. Nothing works for either. I think time stamp on this mail is UCT. *-hydragon-* ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-838-1021739082-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 16:26:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.92]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4IGPxL15176 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 16:26:00 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-838-1021739082-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 16:24:42 -0000 X-Sender: hydragon@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 16:24:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 17968 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 16:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 16:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 16:24:41 -0000 Received: (from hydragon@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4IGO1v05338 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 18 May 2002 16:24:01 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20020518162401.A929@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG> References: <3.0.6.32.20020518063533.00c92ff8@net-prophet.net> <20020518142633.A22631@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG> User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020518142633.A22631@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG>; from hydragon@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG on Sat, May 18, 2002 at 02:26:33PM +0000 From: "A. Hydragon" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:24:01 +0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: just a test Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 49 why are you reading this? -- hydragon@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org test ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-839-1021740525-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 16:48:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.78]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4IGmBL28223 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 16:48:11 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-839-1021740525-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 16:48:45 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 16:48:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 24543 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 16:48:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 16:48:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 16:48:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.164] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 16:48:44 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020518142633.A22631@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:48:43 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: ucp.ath.cx Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 50 --- In ucplist@y..., "A. Hydragon" wrote: > On Sat, May 18, 2002 at 01:49:57PM -0000, LucCerveau wrote: > > > >PS. in central europe the time is now 13.19 or 1.19 pm. > > > > > > > >What are the time differences?? > > > > > > I just tried now and it's not working for me. > > > > > > It's 6:30 am which is zulu time minus > > > 8 hours on the west coast of the US. > > > > > > > > > KP > > > > Ok.. > > > > Hmmm... perhaps my isp has block the port 119(default) > > > > I have now changed it to 120.... > > > > please change the port to 120 and try again. > > > > Thanks for your help. 80) > > I just tried several times for both ports on different ISPs. > Nothing works for either. I've put it back to port 119 because with 120 it doesn't even work for me 80( I've tested it with free agent, doesn't seem to work, Xnews, which works, and outlook which also works. There aren't any messages of why it isn't connecting? Or aren't there any? > I think time stamp on this mail is UCT. Oki > > *-hydragon-* Thanks for your time 80) BW, AK ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-840-1021741383-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 17:02:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.89]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4IH2TL07585 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 17:02:29 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-840-1021741383-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 17:03:03 -0000 X-Sender: hydragon@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 17:03:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 5359 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 17:03:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 17:03:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 17:03:02 -0000 Received: (from hydragon@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4IH2MY02589 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 18 May 2002 17:02:22 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20020518170222.A5901@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG> References: <20020518142633.A22631@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG> User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from luccerveau@yahoo.com on Sat, May 18, 2002 at 04:48:43PM -0000 From: "A. Hydragon" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 17:02:22 +0000 Subject: RE::2:Re: [UCP-List] Re: ucp.ath.cx Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 On Sat, May 18, 2002 at 04:48:43PM -0000, LucCerveau wrote: > I've put it back to port 119 because with 120 it doesn't even work for me 80( > I've tested it with free agent, doesn't seem to work, Xnews, which works, and outlook which also works. > > There aren't any messages of why it isn't connecting? Or aren't there any? Can't connect to server Can't access startfile Nothing helpful. lynx just hangs. I have to Control-C it -- hydragon@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ;) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-841-1021743964-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 17:45:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4IHjUS04525 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 17:45:30 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-841-1021743964-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 17:46:04 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 17:46:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 59015 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 17:46:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 17:46:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 17:46:03 -0000 Received: by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g4IHjNF04480; Sat, 18 May 2002 17:45:23 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 17:45:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: just a test Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 54 On Sat, 18 May 2002, A. Hydragon wrote: > Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:24:01 +0000 > From: A. Hydragon > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [UCP-List] Re: just a test > > why are you reading this? > > -- > hydragon@sdf.lonestar.org > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org Oh, I dunno. Just insatiable curiosity I guess. But I see what you did, you crazy MF! The yahoo gods will wreak vengeance! ;) abner@sdf.lonestar.org ;) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-842-1021748698-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 18 19:04:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.89]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4IJ4Ob27308 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 19:04:24 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-842-1021748698-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 19:04:58 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 18 May 2002 19:04:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 13841 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 19:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 18 May 2002 19:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 19:04:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.164] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 May 2002 19:04:48 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020518170222.A5901@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 19:04:47 -0000 Subject: RE::2:Re: [UCP-List] Re: ucp.ath.cx Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 55 --- In ucplist@y..., "A. Hydragon" wrote: > On Sat, May 18, 2002 at 04:48:43PM -0000, LucCerveau wrote: > > > I've put it back to port 119 because with 120 it doesn't even work for > me 80( > > > I've tested it with free agent, doesn't seem to work, Xnews, which > works, and outlook which also works. > > > > > There aren't any messages of why it isn't connecting? Or aren't there any? > > Can't connect to server > Can't access startfile > > Nothing helpful. lynx just hangs. I have to Control-C it Thanx for trying 80) Best Wishes, AK > -- > hydragon@s... > SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ;) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-843-1021769881-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 00:57:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4J0vRM04624 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 00:57:27 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-843-1021769881-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 00:58:01 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 00:57:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 62619 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 00:57:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 00:57:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 00:57:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.189] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 00:57:59 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.193.245 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 00:57:57 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] aikido Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 56 --- In ucplist@y..., "Ondine Green" wrote: > >it's very cool to see a > >fellow Aikidoka on the list. > > Definitely. I've been training for just over two years now and I think I'm > beginning to get the "feel" to some extent. > > >I must say exposure to this art was a > >big boost for my processing. The idea of "going with the flow" yet > >fully contrlling the situation is very powerful even outside the > >martial arts realm. > > Hmmm. Well, I don't know that the defending partner in an aikido throw is > *controlling* the situation... it seems to me that my best aikido is when I > just get out of the way. ;-) You can say that too. Eventually attacker will get tired and you then can sort outthe situation in a harmonious manner. That's supposedly how Aikido got invented. > > >This is, IMHO, is what we are shooting for in > >UCP, but we try to apply it to entire life :) > > Oh, yes. Definitely - there are great overlaps between the arts. > Interestingly enough, my sensei describe aikido as a Taoist art, so maybe > that's a nice counterbalance to all the Buddhism we seem to bew getting > around here. Hmm. It might be similar to Taoism in certain respects, but the religion behind Aikido is well known: It's Omotokyo, which is a kind of New-Age shintoism. O-Sensei was a devout member of that sect. http://www.oomoto.or.jp/index.html > > >"The best aikido fight is when you and your opponent meet, shake > >hands and go have a beer together - katatetori beernage" > >My friend > > "Aikido makes the beer taste better" - some wiseasses in San Francisco ;-) I 100% concur. And, interestingly, since I have started I have noticed my hangovers became extremely mild. > But that was the main reason I blew training today, of course - I was > worried that I might actually *hurt* this guy who just happened to be in the > way of some of my own nasty energy from 15 years ago. It's really cool when you recognize why you do stuff. Here's where UCP comes handy! best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-844-1021770884-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 01:14:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.104]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4J1E9p14937 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 01:14:09 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-844-1021770884-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 01:14:44 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 01:14:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 49783 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 01:14:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 01:14:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.68) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 01:14:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.189] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 01:14:42 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.193.245 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 01:14:41 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > As Lao Tse puts it: > Oftentimes one strips oneself of passion > in order to see the Secret of Life > Oftentimes one regards life with passion > in order to see its manifest forms. > > These two (the Secret and its manifestations) > Are (in their nature) the same. > They are given different names > when they become manifest. > > They may both be called the Cosmic Mystery: > Reaching from the Mystery into the Deeper Mystery > is the Gate to the Secret of All Life. Very good quote indeed. Lao Tse knew where it is at :) > > > (yeah, I know worms are not very appetizing analogy, but it's hard to > > find an appealing and clear metaphor. Substitute Humpty-Dumpty if you > > like) > > > > And another litarary quote: > > "Everything is in the hands of Allah" > > "But don't forget, the entire world, including Allah, is in the mind > > of Buddha!" > > "Yes, but the mind of Buddha is in the hands of Allah." > > V.Pelevin (quoting by memory) > > If you can hold this intently enough it might just shoot you through > the roof! That's pretty much what happens in the novel (I think it is "Prince of Gosplan"). Check out this writer, he really has an interesting take on things. Most of his works has been translated into English. > > > By comparing this (present) with what used to be or > > > what might be, one detatches, gets unstuck from this junk. > > > > Or, to go with the worm analogy, compare the head of a worm to its > > tail long enough, and you'll find the worm :) > > Don't forget the wormhole ;) You are absolutely right. > > > > The fundamental "contradiction" is really a duality: the being > > > experiencing the objects of his creation. > > > > > > > Or duality between cause and effect. Or between worm's head and > > worm's tail =) > > In Newton's world, cause and effect are arbitrarily named. One effect is > cause for the next effect and so on, forward or backward in time. But > perpendicular to this linear stream of events, which I am pleased to > call Creation, or Total Effect, is the world of Creator, or Total Cause, > which in reality is the world we inhabit. Cause and effect in the sense > it is usually used is just tags on a process of manifest effect. Science > is arrogant because it somehow can't grok that. It actually does, but not in the usual Newtonian model. Quantum mechanics has a rather more enlightened approach. The existence of lasers and computers testifies that it is also a very workable approach. > > > > (Many of his thought-objects are in conflict). > > > > Yes and no. Conflicts are also a consideration. If a tree falls in a > > forest and noone sees it, is there a conflict? :) > > The key word here is "many" ;) My point was that nothing is in conflict until someone considers it to be in conflict. Someone should come along and say "You cannothave it both ways" > > > > LSD does that to you =) > > To whom? I have told some excellent lies on LSD. But that is another > story for another time. ;) I guess that's individual. But, anyway, I was referring to the author of "Lazy Man's Guide", Mr. Golas, a big connoiseur of lysergic acid diethylamide. > A most enjoyable conversation! Ditto! best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-845-1021785164-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 05:12:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4J5C9s01093 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 05:12:09 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-845-1021785164-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 05:12:44 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 05:12:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 11367 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 05:12:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 05:12:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 05:12:43 -0000 Received: by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g4J5C2000773; Sun, 19 May 2002 05:12:02 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 05:12:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 58 On Sun, 19 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > And another litarary quote: > > > "Everything is in the hands of Allah" > > > "But don't forget, the entire world, including Allah, is in the > > > mind of Buddha!" > > > "Yes, but the mind of Buddha is in the hands of Allah." > > > V.Pelevin (quoting by memory) > > > > If you can hold this intently enough it might just shoot you through > > the roof! > > That's pretty much what happens in the novel (I think it is "Prince > of Gosplan"). Check out this writer, he really has an interesting > take on things. Most of his works has been translated into English. Hope to do that. So many books so little time. (How's that for a persuasive lie?) > > In Newton's world, cause and effect are arbitrarily named. One > > effect is cause for the next effect and so on, forward or backward > > in time. But perpendicular to this linear stream of events, which I > > am pleased to call Creation, or Total Effect, is the world of > > Creator, or Total Cause, which in reality is the world we inhabit. > > Cause and effect in the sense it is usually used is just tags on a > > process of manifest effect. Science is arrogant because it somehow > > can't grok that. > > It actually does, but not in the usual Newtonian model. Quantum > mechanics has a rather more enlightened approach. The existence of > lasers and computers testifies that it is also a very workable > approach. Some *scientists* speak of what is beyond the reach of science, but my impression is that they are in the minority -- although a very creative minority. But QM seems on the verge of obsolescence, in favor of super-strings -- if only the mathematics were more tractable. Quantum computers might help here. As it is, because the equations are so highly recursive, all the computing power on Earth now, if harnessed to the task, would take over a hundred years to solve the first hard equation. The approximations do not suffice for bringing the theory to maturity. I do not understand the details. What I do understand is elegant and beautiful, in contrast to QM, which although useful is ugly. Is there such a thing as an ugly truth? > > > > > > (Many of his thought-objects are in conflict). > > > > > > Yes and no. Conflicts are also a consideration. If a tree falls > in a > > > forest and noone sees it, is there a conflict? :) > > > > The key word here is "many" ;) > > My point was that nothing is in conflict until someone considers it > to be in conflict. Someone should come along and say "You cannothave > it both ways" Some one pointed out that the Darwinian struggle for survival, wherein all creatures are in competition, can also be seen as a vast system of cooperation, wherein all creatures collaborate for mutual benefit. Sometimes it's like those little grids of boxes where you see all the boxes as concavities; then if you blink your eyes they all turn into convexities. Maybe you CAN have it both ways; just not both ways at once. I have never been able to see some of the boxes as empty and some as closed and opaque. > > > > > > LSD does that to you =) > > > > To whom? I have told some excellent lies on LSD. But that is another > > story for another time. ;) > > I guess that's individual. But, anyway, I was referring to the author > of "Lazy Man's Guide", Mr. Golas, a big connoiseur of lysergic acid > diethylamide. Oh. I read that book a long time ago. I think in the mid 70s. I don't remember that part. Thanks for your thoughts. abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-846-1021799636-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 09:13:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4J9Dew00331 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 09:13:41 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-846-1021799636-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 09:13:59 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 09:13:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 7628 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 09:13:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 09:13:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 09:13:53 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.177]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA04470 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 04:13:45 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020519021007.00b39a68@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 02:10:07 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP Archive 2001-2002 uploaded to UCP-List Files section Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 59 [second reply by KP] At 04:50 PM 5/14/2002 -0000, Alex Buksdorf wrote: >Hello All, > >I finally uploaded long promised UCP Archive to >the UCP-List File section, so far only for >2001 & 2002 (Jan-Apr). > >I'm still working on 1999 & 2000. > >I'm gonna update it every month. > >I also uploaded the complete TechTalks Series >(some are missing on the UCP websight). > >UCP Archive is compressed into a number of zip-files. > >Here is the Readme file included in each zip-file: > >===================================================================== > > READ THIS FIRST: > >UCP Archive includes many posts on >the subject of UCP from the Usenet newsgroup >alt.clearing.technology (ACT) from 1999 to >present (and now also from UCP-List and alt.ucp). > >It contains a wealth of UCP discussions which >clarify many UCP points, success stories, >session reports, UCP news, etc. > >You can find UCP Archive at the UCP-List >Files Section: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > >It consists of a number of zipped files, which >you can download to your hard drive, unzip >to a folder by any of zip-unzip programs like >Winzip and read off-line. > >The posts are arranged in chronological order. > >Names of the files containing posts has the >following structure: > >YYYY-MM-DD HH-MM , > >where >YYYY-MM-DD - date of the post, >HH-MM - time of the post (GMT), > - full or partial post subject. > > >In order to make UCP Archive more compact and to >avoid redandencies I did the following: Dear Alex: I am STILL *THRILLED* that you have archived my posts, but upon reconsideration I have STRONG disagreement with your editing of my posts. I *DO NOT* WRITE TO BE MORE COMPACT. I WRITE TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE TO SAY. IT TAKES EXACTLY AS MANY WORDS AS I USE. I DO NOT WRITE to avoid redundancies. That is YOUR purpose. >1) Since majority of the posts are by Konchok Penday (KP) >and his signature is pretty long, I excluded it from >his posts. You can see KP's current signature at > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/UCP%20Archive/KP%27s% >20Signature THIS IS ALTER-IS/SUBSTITUE/LIABILITY. I *OBJECT* to having my posts edited. MY SIG IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF EVERY POST I WRITE. My continuously changing sig file IS PART OF EVERY POST. It's a SIGnificant part of the history. My old sigs are *NOT* EQUAL to my new sigs. DELETING MY SIG and then replacing it with a DIFFERENT sig is MISREPRESENTATION. That's like having an abridged version of the constitution, which leaves off the signatures to save space in books. If you are going to archive my posts, archive MY POSTS. Don't archive what you think I ought to have written INSTEAD. If people don't want to read my sig . . . FINE! If people DO want to read my sig . . . NOW THEY CAN'T! If saving bandwidth and hard drive space was my governing purpose, I WOULD NOT SPEAK. I HAVE *NO* SUCH PURPOSE! IT'S NOT RELEVANT TO MY PURPOSES. > or >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/main/sigfile.htm > >2) Because KP usually replies to UCP posts by others and >quotes them in full, I didn't include original posts in >this case, only KP's replies. Again, this is a MISREPRESENTATION of both my post and what I was replying to. The original poster has a right to have his words read INTACT AND UNINTERRUPTED. I leave the original post intact when I reply to it when I think it SHOULD be there. You cannot follow the sense of it smoothly when it's all chopped up by my line-by-line or even phrase-by-phrase replies. YOU NEED *BOTH* SECTIONS OF TEXT. I LEAVE IT IN BECAUSE I *WANT* IT LEFT IN! BECAUSE IT'S *NOT THE SAME* WITHOUT IT. >3) I didn't include KP's slicing & dicing posts unless >they explicitly discuss/clarify some UCP points. Leaving out entire posts is FINE with me. EDITING my posts sincerely annoys me. Once you have deleted WHAT I am replying to, PLUS my sig, all we have to do is delete all the insults and run spell check to convert Konchok Penday into KEN DOLL BLATHER. To save 1/10 of a second download time! WHAT'S UP WIT DAT? It looks like a SUBSTITUTE purpose to me! How many tenths of a second does it take to *WONDER* WHAT WAS CENSORED, WHICH NOW CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD. Once you start *ANY EDITING*, you are NO LONGER ARCHIVING, YOU ARE NOW ALTER-ISING and making UNKNOWABLE. I said what I said. *ANYTHING* else is a misrepresentation. I'd MUCH rarther have edited archives than no archives. I'D *MUCH* RATHER HAVE *ACCURATE* ARCHIVES! Which means . . . *ZERO* EDITS! >Alex Buksdorf, >UCP-List owner Again, I am THRILLED you are archiving my posts! However, to be honest and blunt, I must add that I am NOT happy you spent what must be HUGE amounts of your time ALTER-ISING MY POSTS to conform them to how you think they should be. I *DO NOT* think of that as an improvement. I'd *MUCH* rather have them INTACT! If that takes an extra three minutes to download . . . SO WHAT? It's not relevant! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! UCP USENET POSTS: alt.clearing.technology, and coming soon to an ALT.UCP newsgroup near you! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! UCP *NEWS SERVER* COMING SOON: ucp.ath.cx "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe to this group, send an email to: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ >===================================================================== >Any critisizm and suggestions welcome. > >If anyone wants to upload any other UCP materials, >please let me know. > > >Best wishes, >Alex > >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/ - N-Lightenment Now for free >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/ - join UCP List ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-847-1021832211-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 18:16:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4JIGH606709 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 18:16:17 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-847-1021832211-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 18:16:52 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 18:16:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 55105 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 18:16:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 18:16:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 18:16:51 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.163]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA29118 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 13:16:48 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020519111229.014733d8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 11:12:29 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] OH FUCK! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 60 OH FUCK! I've been limping along for a few weeks now with just Homer's free ACT and ARS news feed. Since I had been subscribing to 85+ news groups, this was very constricting,. I really like the exceptionally good speed and completeness of Homer's news server. The only problem with it is Homer's psychOTic behavior . . . He is desperately committed to making UCP a subset of Hubbards fraudulent hypnOTic catastrophic scam, and when I won't go along with that he cuts me off. I decided that relying on his flip-flop service is very foolish, so I started looking for a reliable news server. I tried out teranews.com, which accepted my debit card for a no payment, but was useless because it only had a fraction of the articles in ACT and ARS that Homer's server did. Forget that! When I tried to switch back I lost *ALL* of my newsgroups and stored articles. I have a backup that's only about 10 days old, and there is a huge amount of data in it, but for some reason my Agent is not reading it properly. Either it's scrambled or something else is wrong, so right now I don't even have Homer's free ACT and ARS feed. *BUMMER!* As it stands today, I have ZERO news access, and NO access to my last few years of work threaded. I don't know if it's totally gone, or I just can't see it right now. And I'm looking for a new news reader, that works as well as Agent [I *LOVE* Agent, except when it can't find my data] and stores the news is OPEN file format. I WANT IT TO THREAD THE ARTICLES! An unthreaded news reader has NO clue! I have most of the articles as Eudora files, so I haven't lost the primary data, but they are NOT threaded or dated and are NOT in easy-to-use news format or *AS POSTED* and of course they don't have message IDs so you can't search for them very precisely. So as it stands now I do *NOT* have a copy of the UCP PUBLIC RECORD. I have a CD with about 500 megs of backed-up Free Agent and Agent files, which might be good data that I can't read for some reason because my Agent has deconfigured itself, OR large parts of them might be scrambled and completely useless because the data base compression was done by my computer with bad memory for the last year. If Alex, Alex or anyone else wants a CD with my latest news backups on it, I'd be happy to send them a copy. I also have earlier backup CD's . . . but of course they lack my recent work, and I don't know if they are readable either. I believed them all to be, until I needed them! Maybe some of the computer or news experts can descramble and decompress it . . . or just tell us that it really is totally useless garbage. Looking back on my experience, I HATE compressed databases. Somehow they always seem to "SAVE SPACE" by ERASING or DELETING ALL MY DATA! And I HATE file formats that require specialized proprietary programs to read them. USELESS! That's where I am right now. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-848-1021832683-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 18:24:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4JIO7611354 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 18:24:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-848-1021832683-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 18:24:43 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 18:24:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 27111 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 18:24:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 18:24:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 18:24:42 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g4JIO1510882; Sun, 19 May 2002 18:24:01 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020519021007.00b39a68@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 18:24:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP Archive 2001-2002 uploaded to UCP-List Files section Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 61 On Sun, 19 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: [Alex writes:] > >You can find UCP Archive at the UCP-List > >Files Section: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ Dear Alex, I also am deeply appreciative of your efforts to make these files available. However I am unable to access the files on yahoo server. The same issue occurs here that I have gone through *ad nauseum* on another list, to no avail. In brief, something is busted in yahoo software that makes it impossible to register from a non-graphic browser. And yahoo has recently changed some policy which results in the archive section called "public," formerly available to anyone, to now be available only to that segment of the public who is registered with yahoo. So my request, if Konchok is willing, is to post a duplicate set of files somewhere, available to public access. That would avoid the problems associated with the yahoo registration, including giving them stats and forgetting passwords, etc. I agree with Konchok that the posts need to be entire. I have 100 MB free at the moment, on my website, which should suffice :) and which I will offer. My long view is that the best chance of preserving the integrity of the record of the remarkable development of UCP is to disperse it widely. One *might* be able to alter-is one copy of something, but not a hundred or a thousand copies. There is evidence that there is a concerted effort to alter original LRH documents; there is evidence that original words of Jesus have been suppressed for over a millenium by the Church; Islamic scholars dispute endlessly whether certain passages of Koran have been altered or added to; Hebrew scholars point at certain passages of Torah as showing "the dread hand of the redactor"; and a Chinese scholar with whom I once lived, told endless stories of alteration, forgery, miscopied characters, language changes. . .and on-and-on. Konchok's efforts (at least since I came in) seem to have been devoted mostly, not to explaining the tech, which is almost absurdly simple to explain, but in preventing others from making it into something which it is NOT. Absent this voluminous opposition to distortions perpetrated by the ignorant -- or the willfully ignorant, a future generation might be able to argue that, "surely Konchok meant this and not that!" Of course the best way to protect the tech is to use it, and teach your friends to use it. ;) Well, those are my thoughts this morning. What do you think Alex, Konchok? abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org ================ full text below =================== > Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 02:10:07 -0700 > From: Net Prophet > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP Archive 2001-2002 uploaded to UCP-List Files > section > > > > [second reply by KP] > > At 04:50 PM 5/14/2002 -0000, Alex Buksdorf wrote: > >Hello All, > > > >I finally uploaded long promised UCP Archive to > >the UCP-List File section, so far only for > >2001 & 2002 (Jan-Apr). > > > >I'm still working on 1999 & 2000. > > > >I'm gonna update it every month. > > > >I also uploaded the complete TechTalks Series > >(some are missing on the UCP websight). > > > >UCP Archive is compressed into a number of zip-files. > > > >Here is the Readme file included in each zip-file: > > > >===================================================================== > > > > READ THIS FIRST: > > > >UCP Archive includes many posts on > >the subject of UCP from the Usenet newsgroup > >alt.clearing.technology (ACT) from 1999 to > >present (and now also from UCP-List and alt.ucp). > > > >It contains a wealth of UCP discussions which > >clarify many UCP points, success stories, > >session reports, UCP news, etc. > > > >You can find UCP Archive at the UCP-List > >Files Section: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > > > >It consists of a number of zipped files, which > >you can download to your hard drive, unzip > >to a folder by any of zip-unzip programs like > >Winzip and read off-line. > > > >The posts are arranged in chronological order. > > > >Names of the files containing posts has the > >following structure: > > > >YYYY-MM-DD HH-MM , > > > >where > >YYYY-MM-DD - date of the post, > >HH-MM - time of the post (GMT), > > - full or partial post subject. > > > > > >In order to make UCP Archive more compact and to > >avoid redandencies I did the following: > > > Dear Alex: > > I am STILL *THRILLED* that you have archived my posts, > but upon reconsideration I have STRONG disagreement with > your editing of my posts. I *DO NOT* WRITE TO BE MORE > COMPACT. I WRITE TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE TO > SAY. IT TAKES EXACTLY AS MANY WORDS AS I USE. > > I DO NOT WRITE to avoid redundancies. That is YOUR purpose. > > >1) Since majority of the posts are by Konchok Penday (KP) > >and his signature is pretty long, I excluded it from > >his posts. You can see KP's current signature at > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/UCP%20Archive/KP%27s% > >20Signature > > THIS IS ALTER-IS/SUBSTITUE/LIABILITY. > > I *OBJECT* to having my posts edited. > > MY SIG IS THE MOST IMPORTANT > PART OF EVERY POST I WRITE. > > My continuously changing sig file > IS PART OF EVERY POST. > > It's a SIGnificant part of the history. > > My old sigs are *NOT* EQUAL to my new sigs. > > DELETING MY SIG and then replacing it with > a DIFFERENT sig is MISREPRESENTATION. > > That's like having an abridged version of the constitution, > which leaves off the signatures to save space in books. > > If you are going to archive my posts, archive MY POSTS. > > Don't archive what you think I ought to have written INSTEAD. > > If people don't want to read my sig . . . FINE! > > If people DO want to read my sig . . . NOW THEY CAN'T! > > If saving bandwidth and hard drive space was > my governing purpose, I WOULD NOT SPEAK. > > I HAVE *NO* SUCH PURPOSE! > > IT'S NOT RELEVANT > TO MY PURPOSES. > > > or > >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/main/sigfile.htm > > > >2) Because KP usually replies to UCP posts by others and > >quotes them in full, I didn't include original posts in > >this case, only KP's replies. > > Again, this is a MISREPRESENTATION of > both my post and what I was replying to. > > The original poster has a right to have his words > read INTACT AND UNINTERRUPTED. I leave > the original post intact when I reply to it when I > think it SHOULD be there. You cannot follow the > sense of it smoothly when it's all chopped up by > my line-by-line or even phrase-by-phrase replies. > > YOU NEED *BOTH* SECTIONS OF TEXT. > > I LEAVE IT IN BECAUSE I *WANT* IT LEFT IN! > > BECAUSE IT'S *NOT THE SAME* WITHOUT IT. > > >3) I didn't include KP's slicing & dicing posts unless > >they explicitly discuss/clarify some UCP points. > > Leaving out entire posts is FINE with me. > EDITING my posts sincerely annoys me. > > Once you have deleted WHAT I am replying > to, PLUS my sig, all we have to do is delete > all the insults and run spell check to convert > Konchok Penday into KEN DOLL BLATHER. > > To save 1/10 of a second download time! > > WHAT'S UP WIT DAT? > > It looks like a SUBSTITUTE purpose to me! > > How many tenths of a second does it take > to *WONDER* WHAT WAS CENSORED, > WHICH NOW CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD. > > Once you start *ANY EDITING*, you are > NO LONGER ARCHIVING, YOU ARE NOW > ALTER-ISING and making UNKNOWABLE. > > I said what I said. > > *ANYTHING* else is > a misrepresentation. > > I'd MUCH rarther have edited archives than no archives. > > I'D *MUCH* RATHER HAVE *ACCURATE* ARCHIVES! > > Which means . . . *ZERO* EDITS! > > >Alex Buksdorf, > >UCP-List owner > > Again, I am THRILLED you are archiving my posts! > > However, to be honest and blunt, I must add that > I am NOT happy you spent what must be HUGE > amounts of your time ALTER-ISING MY POSTS > to conform them to how you think they should be. > > I *DO NOT* think of that as an improvement. > > I'd *MUCH* rather have them INTACT! > > If that takes an extra three minutes to download > > . . . SO WHAT? It's not relevant! > > Best Wishes, > > WE'LCOME TO > *ACTUALLITY!* > > THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR > ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! > > RESET YOUR SELF! > REBOOT YOUR MIND! > RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS > REINSTALL RATIONALITY > DEBUG AND UPGRADE > YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING > SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! > N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* > > YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY > FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. > > FIND OUT HOW > TO *FIND OUT!* > > WHAT YOU DO > IS UP TO YOU! > > THE WAY > TO *SEE* > *IS* UCP! > > *DO* UCP > AND SEE! > > > O > --- ) > \ > > > Konchok Penday > > Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER > Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm > Formulator and Disseminator of the > Universal Conscious Practice: > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev > Technical hExcellence Award :-) > Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: > http://net-prophet.net/gc/ > Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: > http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ > REvolutionary Architectural System: > http://net-prophet.net/subs/ > Better Banjo Bureau > http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ > Cottage Industries > http://net-prophet.net/ci/ > > > ########################################### > > N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! > WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! > YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > > *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! > *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! > > YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! > USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! > > UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS > SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, > ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! > > ########################################### > > > Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via > paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! > > GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net > RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! > EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! > UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! > > UCP USENET POSTS: alt.clearing.technology, and > coming soon to an ALT.UCP newsgroup near you! > Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm > ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! > UCP *NEWS SERVER* COMING SOON: ucp.ath.cx > > "UCP EMAIL LIST" > To subscribe to this group, send an email to: > ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > UCP POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: > http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ > > > >===================================================================== > > > >Any critisizm and suggestions welcome. > > > >If anyone wants to upload any other UCP materials, > >please let me know. > > > > > >Best wishes, > >Alex > > > >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/ - N-Lightenment Now for free > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/ - join UCP List :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-849-1021833386-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 18:35:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4JIZp618300 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 18:35:51 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-849-1021833386-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 18:36:26 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 18:36:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 48230 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 18:36:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 18:36:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 18:36:25 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.163]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA31869 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 13:36:23 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020519113208.01473630@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 11:32:08 -0700 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 62 At 05:12 AM 5/19/2002 +0000, you wrote: >On Sun, 19 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > >> --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: >> > > And another litarary quote: >> > > "Everything is in the hands of Allah" >> > > "But don't forget, the entire world, including Allah, is in the >> > > mind of Buddha!" >> > > "Yes, but the mind of Buddha is in the hands of Allah." >> > > V.Pelevin (quoting by memory) >> > >> > If you can hold this intently enough it might just shoot you through >> > the roof! >> >> That's pretty much what happens in the novel (I think it is "Prince >> of Gosplan"). Check out this writer, he really has an interesting >> take on things. Most of his works has been translated into English. > >Hope to do that. >So many books so little time. (How's that for a persuasive lie?) > >> > In Newton's world, cause and effect are arbitrarily named. One >> > effect is cause for the next effect and so on, forward or backward >> > in time. But perpendicular to this linear stream of events, which I >> > am pleased to call Creation, or Total Effect, is the world of >> > Creator, or Total Cause, which in reality is the world we inhabit. >> > Cause and effect in the sense it is usually used is just tags on a >> > process of manifest effect. Science is arrogant because it somehow >> > can't grok that. >> >> It actually does, but not in the usual Newtonian model. Quantum >> mechanics has a rather more enlightened approach. The existence of >> lasers and computers testifies that it is also a very workable >> approach. >Some *scientists* speak of what is beyond the reach of science, but my >impression is that they are in the minority -- although a very creative >minority. But QM seems on the verge of obsolescence, in favor of >super-strings -- if only the mathematics were more tractable. Quantum >computers might help here. As it is, because the equations are so highly >recursive, all the computing power on Earth now, if harnessed to the >task, would take over a hundred years to solve the first hard equation. >The approximations do not suffice for bringing the theory to maturity. I >do not understand the details. What I do understand is elegant and >beautiful, in contrast to QM, which although useful is ugly. Is there >such a thing as an ugly truth? Quantum Mechanics is an INSANE theory based on accurate mathematics. The SANE theory produces the same math. If you are interested in understanding physics, start here: http://net-prophet.net/nobul/rado/rado.htm . . . especially if you appreciate elegance and beauty! KP >> > > > (Many of his thought-objects are in conflict). >> > > >> > > Yes and no. Conflicts are also a consideration. If a tree falls >> in a >> > > forest and noone sees it, is there a conflict? :) >> > >> > The key word here is "many" ;) >> >> My point was that nothing is in conflict until someone considers it >> to be in conflict. Someone should come along and say "You cannothave >> it both ways" > >Some one pointed out that the Darwinian struggle for survival, wherein >all creatures are in competition, can also be seen as a vast system of >cooperation, wherein all creatures collaborate for mutual benefit. >Sometimes it's like those little grids of boxes where you see all the >boxes as concavities; then if you blink your eyes they all turn into >convexities. Maybe you CAN have it both ways; just not both ways at >once. I have never been able to see some of the boxes as empty and some >as closed and opaque. > >> > > >> > > LSD does that to you =) >> > >> > To whom? I have told some excellent lies on LSD. But that is another >> > story for another time. ;) >> >> I guess that's individual. But, anyway, I was referring to the author >> of "Lazy Man's Guide", Mr. Golas, a big connoiseur of lysergic acid >> diethylamide. > >Oh. I read that book a long time ago. I think in the mid 70s. I don't >remember that part. > >Thanks for your thoughts. > > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >:) > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-850-1021838690-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 20:04:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4JK4EJ11380 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 20:04:14 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-850-1021838690-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 20:04:50 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 20:04:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 47194 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 20:04:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 20:04:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 20:04:48 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g4JK47m11236; Sun, 19 May 2002 20:04:07 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020519111229.014733d8@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 20:04:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] OH FUCK! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 63 Dear Konchok- You raise many issues below, and I'm not clear about some of them, so I will just comment as I go: On Sun, 19 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 11:12:29 -0700 > From: Net Prophet > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [UCP-List] OH FUCK! > > > > OH FUCK! > > > I've been limping along for a few > weeks now with just Homer's free > ACT and ARS news feed. Since I > had been subscribing to 85+ news > groups, this was very constricting,. > > I really like the exceptionally good > speed and completeness of Homer's > news server. The only problem with > it is Homer's psychOTic behavior . . . > He is desperately committed to making > UCP a subset of Hubbards fraudulent > hypnOTic catastrophic scam, and when > I won't go along with that he cuts me off. > > I decided that relying on his flip-flop > service is very foolish, so I started > looking for a reliable news server. > > I tried out teranews.com, > which accepted my debit card > for a no payment, but was useless > because it only had a fraction of > the articles in ACT and ARS that > Homer's server did. Forget that! Do you mean a fraction of the *articles* or a fraction of the *newsgroups*? My news server has over 24,000 articles posted to ACT dating back 9 months. > When I tried to switch back I > lost *ALL* of my newsgroups > and stored articles. I have a > backup that's only about 10 > days old, and there is a huge > amount of data in it, but for > some reason my Agent is not > reading it properly. Either it's > scrambled or something else > is wrong, so right now I don't > even have Homer's free ACT > and ARS feed. *BUMMER!* Is the backup compressed or not? You might try looking at it with a text editor, like notepad or something and see what you can discover. Do you not have Homer's feed because Homer cut you off, or because Agent is not reconfigured properly? I suppose you have tried rebooting several times? Sometimes Windows doesn't get it until the third reboot. Also consider re-installing Agent. ;( > As it stands today, I have > ZERO news access, and > NO access to my last few > years of work threaded. > > I don't know if it's totally gone, > or I just can't see it right now. Again, see if you can load it into a text editor. If it looks like text, the chances are that the files are OK. > And I'm looking for a new news reader, > that works as well as Agent [I *LOVE* > Agent, except when it can't find my data] > and stores the news is OPEN file format. Tin is regarded by many as the best newsreader. But I don't know if there is a Windows version. Otherwise you would need to run it on Linux or some flavor of Unix. It might be ported to OS-X by now. I haven't checked. > I WANT IT TO THREAD THE ARTICLES! > An unthreaded news reader has NO clue! Tin will thread or un-thread the articles. I believe the articles are stored in the order they are received. Then the software scans the headers and makes an index. Using the index information only it can present the articles to the user in whatever arrangement he requires. > I have most of the articles as Eudora files, > so I haven't lost the primary data, but they > are NOT threaded or dated and are NOT in > easy-to-use news format or *AS POSTED* > and of course they don't have message IDs > so you can't search for them very precisely. These would be the original articles, before they were posted? > So as it stands now I do *NOT* have > a copy of the UCP PUBLIC RECORD. As posted where, to ACT? > I have a CD with about 500 megs of backed-up > Free Agent and Agent files, which might be good > data that I can't read for some reason because > my Agent has deconfigured itself, OR large parts > of them might be scrambled and completely useless > because the data base compression was done by > my computer with bad memory for the last year. What kind of compression? Did you zip them? Or something else? > If Alex, Alex or anyone else wants a CD with my > latest news backups on it, I'd be happy to send > them a copy. I also have earlier backup CD's > . . . but of course they lack my recent work, > and I don't know if they are readable either. > I believed them all to be, until I needed them! My guess is that if your computer difficulties are recent, that the CDs are OK. > Maybe some of the computer or news experts > can descramble and decompress it . . . or just > tell us that it really is totally useless garbage. Item 1) One of my clients had some Eudora and Outlook mail that needed sending, but the machine connected to the network was down. I took the files and put them on a Linux box. They loaded perfectly into Pine, despite the top "From " line being missing. Item 2) Pine stores mail and news on the same spool. Ergo the file formats are compatible. So, I would guess that unless Agent does something really weird to the files that they should be readable by another news or mail reader. > Looking back on my experience, I HATE compressed > databases. Somehow they always seem to "SAVE > SPACE" by ERASING or DELETING ALL MY DATA! I won't even guess on this one. If they were zipped, there are utilities to repair mangled zip files. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. > And I HATE file formats that require specialized > proprietary programs to read them. USELESS! Is Agent one of these? > That's where I am right now. In summary, ease your mind about one thing: your last 9 months of Usenet postings are recoverable from my server without much difficulty. Tin should be able to thread them for you. > KP abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-851-1021850041-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 23:13:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4JNDPh08087 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 23:13:25 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-851-1021850041-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 23:14:01 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 23:13:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 43325 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 23:13:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 23:13:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 23:13:58 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.162] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 23:13:58 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.193.245 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 23:13:57 -0000 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 64 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: Hm. I don't want to dwell too much on this subject, because IMHO, it is off-topic for this group, but I'll interejcts a few comments here/ > Some *scientists* speak of what is beyond the reach of science, but my > impression is that they are in the minority -- although a very creative > minority. But QM seems on the verge of obsolescence, in favor of > super-strings -- if only the mathematics were more tractable. Hm. Reading pop science literature might led one to believe that super-strings somehow supercede quantum theory, but thsi is not correct. Superstring theory (and most of its competitors) is a 100% quantum theory. It is built on top of the basic quantum mechanics, like high-school algebra is built on top of arithmetics. What is being discarded is the notion that everything is built out of infinitely small pointlike particles. This notion has been giving scientists headaches for more than 100 years by now, it's good to see it go. > computers might help here. As it is, because the equations are so highly > recursive, all the computing power on Earth now, if harnessed to the > task, would take over a hundred years to solve the first hard equation. I am not sure which equation are you talking about. My understanding of the situation is that the main problem is that the superstring theory is not yet at the point where it can make definite predictions. And if a thory does not make predictions, it is impossible to verify. > The approximations do not suffice for bringing the theory to maturity. I > do not understand the details. What I do understand is elegant and > beautiful, in contrast to QM, which although useful is ugly. I believe you are thinking of something that is called "Standard Model of Particle Physics", not QM as such. Standard Model is just a collection of known facts about particles, with little rhyme or reason to it. It really is ugly. Somewhat unfortuantely, it is also astonishingly efficient and workable, which makes any attempts to change it a very hard endeavour indeed. In contrast, Quantum mechanics is a very simple and elegant theory, however very counterintuitive. (Should not be a surprise, for all our experience concerns thins far larger than atoms and molecules) (for KP) As of Rado's theory, that KP quotes, it is hard to make any definite judgement based on what he writes on his web page, but theories of that *type* (that is theories of "aether")were very popular in 18th- 19th century. The problem with them is that when you try to make them fit all the known facts, the properties of aether turn out to be a very strange indeed. An example: Aether cannot be a liquid or a gas (as it is commonly thought of) because liquids and gases vibrate *only* along the path of the wave, while light, on the other hand, vibrates *only* sideways. Solids can vibrate sideways but they also can vibrate along. So, aether gotta be a very strange stuff indeed. best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-852-1021850279-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 23:17:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4JNHOh11254 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 23:17:24 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-852-1021850279-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 23:18:00 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 23:17:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 29039 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 23:17:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 23:17:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 23:17:59 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.150]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA07352 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 18:17:55 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020519161317.01473630@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020519021007.00b39a68@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:13:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP Archive 2001-2002 uploaded to UCP-List Files section Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 65 At 06:24 PM 5/19/2002 +0000, you wrote: >On Sun, 19 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > >[Alex writes:] >> >You can find UCP Archive at the UCP-List >> >Files Section: >> > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ Abner replies: >Dear Alex, > >I also am deeply appreciative of your efforts to make these files >available. However I am unable to access the files on yahoo server. >The same issue occurs here that I have gone through *ad nauseum* on >another list, to no avail. > >In brief, something is busted in yahoo software that makes it impossible >to register from a non-graphic browser. And yahoo has recently changed >some policy which results in the archive section called "public," >formerly available to anyone, to now be available only to that segment of >the public who is registered with yahoo. More commercial site yahoo bullshit! >So my request, if Konchok is willing, is to post a duplicate set of >files somewhere, available to public access. PLEASE DO! I'll link to them from my website! >That would avoid the >problems associated with the yahoo registration, including giving them >stats and forgetting passwords, etc. I hate that crap! >I agree with Konchok that the posts need to be entire. I have 100 MB >free at the moment, on my website, which should suffice :) and which I >will offer. PLEASE DO! >My long view is that the best chance of preserving the integrity >of the record of the remarkable development of UCP is to disperse it >widely. One *might* be able to alter-is one copy of something, but not >a hundred or a thousand copies. EXACTLY MY THOUGHT! >There is evidence that there is a concerted effort to alter original LRH >documents; there is evidence that original words of Jesus have been >suppressed for over a millenium by the Church; Islamic scholars dispute >endlessly whether certain passages of Koran have been altered or added >to; Hebrew scholars point at certain passages of Torah as showing "the >dread hand of the redactor"; and a Chinese scholar with whom I once >lived, told endless stories of alteration, forgery, miscopied >characters, language changes. . .and on-and-on. The entire SUBSTITUTE history! >Konchok's efforts (at least since I came in) seem to have been devoted >mostly, not to explaining the tech, which is almost absurdly simple to >explain, but in preventing others from making it into something which it >is NOT. YES! >Absent this voluminous opposition to distortions perpetrated by the >ignorant -- or the willfully ignorant, a future generation might be able >to argue that, "surely Konchok meant this and not that!" Yes! >Of course the best way to protect the tech is to use it, and teach your >friends to use it. ;) YES! >Well, those are my thoughts this morning. What do you think Alex, >Konchok? > > abner >abner@sdf.lonestar.org PLEASE DO! Thanks for writing! KP >================ full text below =================== >> Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 02:10:07 -0700 >> From: Net Prophet >> Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com >> To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP Archive 2001-2002 uploaded to UCP-List Files >> section >> >> >> >> [second reply by KP] >> >> At 04:50 PM 5/14/2002 -0000, Alex Buksdorf wrote: >> >Hello All, >> > >> >I finally uploaded long promised UCP Archive to >> >the UCP-List File section, so far only for >> >2001 & 2002 (Jan-Apr). >> > >> >I'm still working on 1999 & 2000. >> > >> >I'm gonna update it every month. >> > >> >I also uploaded the complete TechTalks Series >> >(some are missing on the UCP websight). >> > >> >UCP Archive is compressed into a number of zip-files. >> > >> >Here is the Readme file included in each zip-file: >> > >> >===================================================================== >> > >> > READ THIS FIRST: >> > >> >UCP Archive includes many posts on >> >the subject of UCP from the Usenet newsgroup >> >alt.clearing.technology (ACT) from 1999 to >> >present (and now also from UCP-List and alt.ucp). >> > >> >It contains a wealth of UCP discussions which >> >clarify many UCP points, success stories, >> >session reports, UCP news, etc. >> > >> >You can find UCP Archive at the UCP-List >> >Files Section: >> > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ >> > >> >It consists of a number of zipped files, which >> >you can download to your hard drive, unzip >> >to a folder by any of zip-unzip programs like >> >Winzip and read off-line. >> > >> >The posts are arranged in chronological order. >> > >> >Names of the files containing posts has the >> >following structure: >> > >> >YYYY-MM-DD HH-MM , >> > >> >where >> >YYYY-MM-DD - date of the post, >> >HH-MM - time of the post (GMT), >> > - full or partial post subject. >> > >> > >> >In order to make UCP Archive more compact and to >> >avoid redandencies I did the following: >> >> >> Dear Alex: >> >> I am STILL *THRILLED* that you have archived my posts, >> but upon reconsideration I have STRONG disagreement with >> your editing of my posts. I *DO NOT* WRITE TO BE MORE >> COMPACT. I WRITE TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE TO >> SAY. IT TAKES EXACTLY AS MANY WORDS AS I USE. >> >> I DO NOT WRITE to avoid redundancies. That is YOUR purpose. >> >> >1) Since majority of the posts are by Konchok Penday (KP) >> >and his signature is pretty long, I excluded it from >> >his posts. You can see KP's current signature at >> > >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/UCP%20Archive/KP%27s% >> >20Signature >> >> THIS IS ALTER-IS/SUBSTITUE/LIABILITY. >> >> I *OBJECT* to having my posts edited. >> >> MY SIG IS THE MOST IMPORTANT >> PART OF EVERY POST I WRITE. >> >> My continuously changing sig file >> IS PART OF EVERY POST. >> >> It's a SIGnificant part of the history. >> >> My old sigs are *NOT* EQUAL to my new sigs. >> >> DELETING MY SIG and then replacing it with >> a DIFFERENT sig is MISREPRESENTATION. >> >> That's like having an abridged version of the constitution, >> which leaves off the signatures to save space in books. >> >> If you are going to archive my posts, archive MY POSTS. >> >> Don't archive what you think I ought to have written INSTEAD. >> >> If people don't want to read my sig . . . FINE! >> >> If people DO want to read my sig . . . NOW THEY CAN'T! >> >> If saving bandwidth and hard drive space was >> my governing purpose, I WOULD NOT SPEAK. >> >> I HAVE *NO* SUCH PURPOSE! >> >> IT'S NOT RELEVANT >> TO MY PURPOSES. >> >> > or >> >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/main/sigfile.htm >> > >> >2) Because KP usually replies to UCP posts by others and >> >quotes them in full, I didn't include original posts in >> >this case, only KP's replies. >> >> Again, this is a MISREPRESENTATION of >> both my post and what I was replying to. >> >> The original poster has a right to have his words >> read INTACT AND UNINTERRUPTED. I leave >> the original post intact when I reply to it when I >> think it SHOULD be there. You cannot follow the >> sense of it smoothly when it's all chopped up by >> my line-by-line or even phrase-by-phrase replies. >> >> YOU NEED *BOTH* SECTIONS OF TEXT. >> >> I LEAVE IT IN BECAUSE I *WANT* IT LEFT IN! >> >> BECAUSE IT'S *NOT THE SAME* WITHOUT IT. >> >> >3) I didn't include KP's slicing & dicing posts unless >> >they explicitly discuss/clarify some UCP points. >> >> Leaving out entire posts is FINE with me. >> EDITING my posts sincerely annoys me. >> >> Once you have deleted WHAT I am replying >> to, PLUS my sig, all we have to do is delete >> all the insults and run spell check to convert >> Konchok Penday into KEN DOLL BLATHER. >> >> To save 1/10 of a second download time! >> >> WHAT'S UP WIT DAT? >> >> It looks like a SUBSTITUTE purpose to me! >> >> How many tenths of a second does it take >> to *WONDER* WHAT WAS CENSORED, >> WHICH NOW CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD. >> >> Once you start *ANY EDITING*, you are >> NO LONGER ARCHIVING, YOU ARE NOW >> ALTER-ISING and making UNKNOWABLE. >> >> I said what I said. >> >> *ANYTHING* else is >> a misrepresentation. >> >> I'd MUCH rarther have edited archives than no archives. >> >> I'D *MUCH* RATHER HAVE *ACCURATE* ARCHIVES! >> >> Which means . . . *ZERO* EDITS! >> >> >Alex Buksdorf, >> >UCP-List owner >> >> Again, I am THRILLED you are archiving my posts! >> >> However, to be honest and blunt, I must add that >> I am NOT happy you spent what must be HUGE >> amounts of your time ALTER-ISING MY POSTS >> to conform them to how you think they should be. >> >> I *DO NOT* think of that as an improvement. >> >> I'd *MUCH* rather have them INTACT! >> >> If that takes an extra three minutes to download >> >> . . . SO WHAT? It's not relevant! >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> WE'LCOME TO >> *ACTUALLITY!* >> >> THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR >> ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! >> >> RESET YOUR SELF! >> REBOOT YOUR MIND! >> RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS >> REINSTALL RATIONALITY >> DEBUG AND UPGRADE >> YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING >> SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! >> N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* >> >> YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY >> FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. >> >> FIND OUT HOW >> TO *FIND OUT!* >> >> WHAT YOU DO >> IS UP TO YOU! >> >> THE WAY >> TO *SEE* >> *IS* UCP! >> >> *DO* UCP >> AND SEE! >> >> >> O >> --- ) >> \ >> >> >> Konchok Penday >> >> Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER >> Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot >> http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm >> Formulator and Disseminator of the >> Universal Conscious Practice: >> http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ >> Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev >> Technical hExcellence Award :-) >> Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: >> http://net-prophet.net/gc/ >> Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: >> http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ >> REvolutionary Architectural System: >> http://net-prophet.net/subs/ >> Better Banjo Bureau >> http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ >> Cottage Industries >> http://net-prophet.net/ci/ >> >> >> ########################################### >> >> N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! >> WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! >> YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! >> http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ >> >> *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! >> *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! >> >> YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! >> USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! >> >> UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS >> SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, >> ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! >> >> ########################################### >> >> >> Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via >> paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! >> >> GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net >> RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! >> EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! >> UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! >> >> UCP USENET POSTS: alt.clearing.technology, and >> coming soon to an ALT.UCP newsgroup near you! >> Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm >> ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! >> UCP *NEWS SERVER* COMING SOON: ucp.ath.cx >> >> "UCP EMAIL LIST" >> To subscribe to this group, send an email to: >> ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> UCP POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ >> UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: >> http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ >> >> >> >===================================================================== >> >> >> >Any critisizm and suggestions welcome. >> > >> >If anyone wants to upload any other UCP materials, >> >please let me know. >> > >> > >> >Best wishes, >> >Alex >> > >> >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/ - N-Lightenment Now for free >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/ - join UCP List > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-853-1021850283-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 23:17:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4JNHRh11268 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 23:17:27 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-853-1021850283-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 23:18:03 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 23:18:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 6862 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 23:18:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 23:18:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 23:18:02 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.150]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA07362 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 18:17:58 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020519161341.014807a8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020519111229.014733d8@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:13:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] OH FUCK! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 66 Abner writes: >Dear Konchok- > >You raise many issues below, and I'm not clear about some of them, so I >will just comment as I go: Perfect. >On Sun, 19 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 11:12:29 -0700 >> From: Net Prophet >> Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com >> To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: [UCP-List] OH FUCK! >> >> >> >> OH FUCK! >> >> >> I've been limping along for a few >> weeks now with just Homer's free >> ACT and ARS news feed. Since I >> had been subscribing to 85+ news >> groups, this was very constricting,. >> >> I really like the exceptionally good >> speed and completeness of Homer's >> news server. The only problem with >> it is Homer's psychOTic behavior . . . >> He is desperately committed to making >> UCP a subset of Hubbards fraudulent >> hypnOTic catastrophic scam, and when >> I won't go along with that he cuts me off. >> >> I decided that relying on his flip-flop >> service is very foolish, so I started >> looking for a reliable news server. >> >> I tried out teranews.com, >> which accepted my debit card >> for a no payment, but was useless >> because it only had a fraction of >> the articles in ACT and ARS that >> Homer's server did. Forget that! > >Do you mean a fraction of the *articles* or a fraction of the >*newsgroups*? A fraction of the articles. I took my headers list from homer's server and tried to get the bodies on teranews. MOST of the articles, new or old, were unavailable on ternanews. >My news server has over 24,000 articles posted to ACT dating back 9 >months. Cool. Homer has ACT logged forever, but I don't know how to get it from his server. >> When I tried to switch back I >> lost *ALL* of my newsgroups >> and stored articles. I have a >> backup that's only about 10 >> days old, and there is a huge >> amount of data in it, but for >> some reason my Agent is not >> reading it properly. Either it's >> scrambled or something else >> is wrong, so right now I don't >> even have Homer's free ACT >> and ARS feed. *BUMMER!* >Is the backup compressed or not? You might try looking at it with a text >editor, like notepad or something and see what you can discover. It's compressed in Agents database format. If you look at it with notepad, you see some text mixed with a lot of gibberish, which I assumed is the database compresssion. I have been unable to open it with Agent recently, and my computer is such a total state of collapse I'm on apathy on it. >Do you not have Homer's feed because Homer cut you off, or because Agent >is not reconfigured properly? Homer hasn't cut me off from his free news service of ACT and ARS, but I can't get them because agent won't let me type in a newsgroup, you HAVE to download the list of groups, which it won't do because I don't have server access for that. >I suppose you have tried rebooting several times? Sometimes Windows >doesn't get it until the third reboot. Also consider re-installing >Agent. ;( I did reinstall agent. That appears to have wiped out the articles and newsgroups I still had logged on my hard drive. >> As it stands today, I have >> ZERO news access, and >> NO access to my last few >> years of work threaded. >> >> I don't know if it's totally gone, >> or I just can't see it right now. >Again, see if you can load it into a text editor. If it looks like text, >the chances are that the files are OK. It's text mixed with gibberish. I THOUGHT that was database compression. Now I don't know. I might just be gibberish. >> And I'm looking for a new news reader, >> that works as well as Agent [I *LOVE* >> Agent, except when it can't find my data] >> and stores the news is OPEN file format. >Tin is regarded by many as the best newsreader. But I don't know if >there is a Windows version. Otherwise you would need to run it on Linux >or some flavor of Unix. It might be ported to OS-X by now. I haven't >checked. I have linux installed, but it doesn't see my modem and my mouse doesn't work right and I can see it will take me several months I don't have now to learn to use it. >> I WANT IT TO THREAD THE ARTICLES! >> An unthreaded news reader has NO clue! >Tin will thread or un-thread the articles. I believe the articles are >stored in the order they are received. Then the software scans the >headers and makes an index. Using the index information only it can >present the articles to the user in whatever arrangement he requires. Good. I think Homer uses Tin, but his articles never come up threaded. >> I have most of the articles as Eudora files, >> so I haven't lost the primary data, but they >> are NOT threaded or dated and are NOT in >> easy-to-use news format or *AS POSTED* >> and of course they don't have message IDs >> so you can't search for them very precisely. >These would be the original articles, before they were posted? Yes. I compose in eudora because one false "escape" wipes your article in Agent. Then I cut and paste from Eudora to Agent [Free Agent before that] to post to usenet. >> So as it stands now I do *NOT* have >> a copy of the UCP PUBLIC RECORD. >As posted where, to ACT? Mostly ACT, mostly starting in 1999, although I did post some as early as 1995, but was off the net for several years due to economic collapse and inability to maintain a computer system. I posted a lot to ARS, but that is mostly duplicates of the ACT stuff. I've posted to a few other newsgroups, but 95+% of my UCP work has been posted to ACT. I was posting as anyonymous@electra.lightlink.com for the first few years, until Homer blocked my access because he does not like free speech. That actually worked out for the best because my articles did not thread through the remailer. >> I have a CD with about 500 megs of backed-up >> Free Agent and Agent files, which might be good >> data that I can't read for some reason because >> my Agent has deconfigured itself, OR large parts >> of them might be scrambled and completely useless >> because the data base compression was done by >> my computer with bad memory for the last year. > >What kind of compression? Did you zip them? Or something else? No. Just the Free Agent and Agent database files, which are compressed automatically. >> If Alex, Alex or anyone else wants a CD with my >> latest news backups on it, I'd be happy to send >> them a copy. I also have earlier backup CD's >> . . . but of course they lack my recent work, >> and I don't know if they are readable either. >> I believed them all to be, until I needed them! >My guess is that if your computer difficulties are recent, that the CDs >are OK. This computer has been a nightmare since I built it about 4 or 5 years ago. It had bad memory since I had a new motherboard installed about a year ago. >> Maybe some of the computer or news experts >> can descramble and decompress it . . . or just >> tell us that it really is totally useless garbage. > >Item 1) >One of my clients had some Eudora and Outlook mail that needed sending, >but the machine connected to the network was down. I took the files and >put them on a Linux box. They loaded perfectly into Pine, despite the >top "From " line being missing. > >Item 2) >Pine stores mail and news on the same spool. Ergo the file formats are >compatible. That's wonderful! Now tell me Pine reads Agent database files! :-) >So, I would guess that unless Agent does something really weird to the >files that they should be readable by another news or mail reader. It compresses them in its own file format. Agent and Free Agent apparently use different file formats, because if you upgrade to Agent you CAN'T go back again. >> Looking back on my experience, I HATE compressed >> databases. Somehow they always seem to "SAVE >> SPACE" by ERASING or DELETING ALL MY DATA! > >I won't even guess on this one. If they were zipped, there are utilities >to repair mangled zip files. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. > >> And I HATE file formats that require specialized >> proprietary programs to read them. USELESS! > >Is Agent one of these? Yes. >> That's where I am right now. > >In summary, ease your mind about one thing: your last 9 months of Usenet >postings are recoverable from my server without much difficulty. Tin >should be able to thread them for you. > >> KP > abner >abner@sdf.lonestar.org Excellent! Homer maintains a lot of stuff at clearing.org, and has said he has a total log of ACT from the beginning, but I have no idea how to get it. My 56K modem connects at 26 to 28K, and ACT is probably gigabytes of data by now. Thanks for writing! KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-854-1021850865-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 19 23:27:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4JNR9h16981 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 23:27:10 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-854-1021850865-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 May 2002 23:27:45 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 19 May 2002 23:27:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 72631 invoked from network); 19 May 2002 23:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 May 2002 23:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 May 2002 23:27:44 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.150]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA08682 for ; Sun, 19 May 2002 18:27:42 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020519162347.0147ab38@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:23:47 -0700 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 67 Oleg writes: >--- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > >Hm. I don't want to dwell too much on this subject, because IMHO, it >is off-topic for this group, but I'll interejcts a few comments here/ > >> Some *scientists* speak of what is beyond the reach of science, but >my >> impression is that they are in the minority -- although a very >creative >> minority. But QM seems on the verge of obsolescence, in favor of >> super-strings -- if only the mathematics were more tractable. > >Hm. Reading pop science literature might led one to believe that >super-strings somehow supercede quantum theory, but thsi is not >correct. Superstring theory (and most of its competitors) is a 100% >quantum theory. It is built on top of the basic quantum mechanics, >like high-school algebra is built on top of arithmetics. What is >being discarded is the notion that everything is built out of >infinitely small pointlike particles. This notion has been giving >scientists headaches for more than 100 years by now, it's good to see >it go. No, it never went away, it was just ignored for a long time because of incorrect assumptions by Michaelson-Morely. It's back and working better than ever. What is GONE are bent space, telepathic particles, time going backwards, big bangs and other insanity. >> computers might help here. As it is, because the equations are so >highly >> recursive, all the computing power on Earth now, if harnessed to the >> task, would take over a hundred years to solve the first hard >equation. > >I am not sure which equation are you talking about. My understanding >of the situation is that the main problem is that the superstring >theory is not yet at the point where it can make definite >predictions. And if a thory does not make predictions, it is >impossible to verify. > >> The approximations do not suffice for bringing the theory to >maturity. I >> do not understand the details. What I do understand is elegant and >> beautiful, in contrast to QM, which although useful is ugly. > >I believe you are thinking of something that is called "Standard >Model of Particle Physics", not QM as such. Standard Model is just a >collection of known facts about particles, with little rhyme or >reason to it. It really is ugly. Somewhat unfortuantely, it is also >astonishingly efficient and workable, which makes any attempts to >change it a very hard endeavour indeed. > >In contrast, Quantum mechanics is a very simple and elegant theory, >however very counterintuitive. (Should not be a surprise, for all our >experience concerns thins far larger than atoms and molecules) > >(for KP) >As of Rado's theory, that KP quotes, it is hard to make any definite >judgement based on what he writes on his web page, but theories of >that *type* (that is theories of "aether")were very popular in 18th- >19th century. Yes. Because they work so well! Even Einstein [that fraud] admitted that Relativity was an aether theory, when he wasn't busy denying it. Rado corrected a major error. >The problem with them is that when you try to make them >fit all the known facts, the properties of aether turn out to be a >very strange indeed. No. Extremely SIMPLE! >An example: Aether cannot be a liquid or a gas (as it is commonly >thought of) because liquids and gases vibrate *only* along the path >of the wave, while light, on the other hand, vibrates *only* >sideways. Solids can vibrate sideways but they also can vibrate >along. So, aether gotta be a very strange stuff indeed. > >best, >Oleg That's only one of many apparent contradictions which Rado solves with his corrected aether theory. I'm not a physicist, and I can't recapitulate it for you, but I remember him going through that exact point in one of his books. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-855-1021856563-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 20 01:02:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4K128c24723 for ; Mon, 20 May 2002 01:02:08 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-855-1021856563-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 May 2002 01:02:44 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 20 May 2002 01:02:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 97369 invoked from network); 20 May 2002 01:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 May 2002 01:02:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2002 01:02:41 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g4K11xq24079; Mon, 20 May 2002 01:01:59 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020519161341.014807a8@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 01:01:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] OH FUCK! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 68 On Sun, 19 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:13:41 -0700 [KP]: > >> I tried out teranews.com, > >> which accepted my debit card > >> for a no payment, but was useless > >> because it only had a fraction of > >> the articles in ACT and ARS that > >> Homer's server did. Forget that! > > > >Do you mean a fraction of the *articles* or a fraction of the > >*newsgroups*? > > A fraction of the articles. I took my headers > list from homer's server and tried to get the > bodies on teranews. MOST of the articles, > new or old, were unavailable on ternanews. > > >My news server has over 24,000 articles posted to ACT dating back 9 > >months. > > Cool. > > Homer has ACT logged forever, but I > don't know how to get it from his server. Send him fifty bucks for a "Web-server shell account" ? I gather that would give you unrestricted access to his news feed. I don't know how he works his archives. . . > >> When I tried to switch back I > >> lost *ALL* of my newsgroups > >> and stored articles. I have a > >> backup that's only about 10 > >> days old, and there is a huge > >> amount of data in it, but for > >> some reason my Agent is not > >> reading it properly. Either it's > >> scrambled or something else > >> is wrong, so right now I don't > >> even have Homer's free ACT > >> and ARS feed. *BUMMER!* > > >Is the backup compressed or not? You might try looking at it with a text > >editor, like notepad or something and see what you can discover. > > It's compressed in Agents database format. > If you look at it with notepad, you see some > text mixed with a lot of gibberish, which I > assumed is the database compresssion. > > I have been unable to open it with Agent > recently, and my computer is such a total > state of collapse I'm on apathy on it. > > >Do you not have Homer's feed because Homer cut you off, or because Agent > >is not reconfigured properly? > > Homer hasn't cut me off from his free news service > of ACT and ARS, but I can't get them because > agent won't let me type in a newsgroup, you HAVE > to download the list of groups, which it won't do > because I don't have server access for that. Fifty bucks ;( Yeh, that's a bummer. News readers, ALL of them that I ahve seen ALL want to do that. They really index the articles by an arbitrary number, and that number is, of course, different for each news service. Lynx avoids that problem somehow. I think it just asks for the last 30 articles. If you want to read further back it just computes and asks for the 30 before that. But lynx isn't a news reader, really. > >I suppose you have tried rebooting several times? Sometimes Windows > >doesn't get it until the third reboot. Also consider re-installing > >Agent. ;( > > I did reinstall agent. That appears to have wiped out the > articles and newsgroups I still had logged on my hard drive. Well, if you want to know, you could browse the Agent directory (where it stores it's files) and see if they are still there. That's problemo numero uno. If they ARE there, say thanks to whatever deity you may believe in (or not) and move them all to a new directory. Then start fresh and see if you can get a new list from Homer's free ACT news server. That would be my strategy. It sounds like Agent is easily confused and due to the above, that is understandable. I would guess that it is trying to make requests to one news server based on lists from another news server, and that just doesn't work. > >> As it stands today, I have > >> ZERO news access, and > >> NO access to my last few > >> years of work threaded. > >> > >> I don't know if it's totally gone, > >> or I just can't see it right now. It MIGHT be able to build a new list from the files in a new directory IF the old list (which doesn't work anymore) is removed or re-named. The point is to minimise confusion by separating old files from new ones. And start fresh with a new default directory. > >Again, see if you can load it into a text editor. If it looks like text, > >the chances are that the files are OK. > > It's text mixed with gibberish. > I THOUGHT that was database > compression. Now I don't know. > I might just be gibberish. Worry about that later -- after you get up and running again with current news. > >> And I'm looking for a new news reader, > >> that works as well as Agent [I *LOVE* > >> Agent, except when it can't find my data] > >> and stores the news is OPEN file format. > > >Tin is regarded by many as the best newsreader. But I don't know if > >there is a Windows version. I just checked. There IS a Windows version. You have to install Cygwin first, maybe. I don't know the details. You would have to investigate. >Otherwise you would need to run it on Linux > >or some flavor of Unix. It might be ported to OS-X by now. I haven't > >checked. > > I have linux installed, but it doesn't see > my modem and my mouse doesn't work > right and I can see it will take me several > months I don't have now to learn to use it. You might have a winmodem. ;( They don't work with Linux. Either get a real modem, external is best, or recently there ARE attempts to make free software to run winmodems on Linux. But you don't have time to fuck around with that. Even if it works it will be a pain, and you will spend much too much time on it. The mouse is an Xwindow problem. Somehow Xwindow doen't have the right info. I've never heard of a mouse that can't be configured. At the worst case you might need to get a new mouse for 20 bucks that is PS2 or MS compatible. But again I haven't seen a mouse that won't work on Lin. > >> I WANT IT TO THREAD THE ARTICLES! > >> An unthreaded news reader has NO clue! > > >Tin will thread or un-thread the articles. I believe the articles are > >stored in the order they are received. Then the software scans the > >headers and makes an index. Using the index information only it can > >present the articles to the user in whatever arrangement he requires. > > Good. I think Homer uses Tin, but > his articles never come up threaded. ???? > >> I have most of the articles as Eudora files, > >> so I haven't lost the primary data, but they > >> are NOT threaded or dated and are NOT in > >> easy-to-use news format or *AS POSTED* > >> and of course they don't have message IDs > >> so you can't search for them very precisely. > > >These would be the original articles, before they were posted? > > Yes. I compose in eudora because one false > "escape" wipes your article in Agent. Then I > cut and paste from Eudora to Agent [Free Agent > before that] to post to usenet. I can see why you love Agent!!!!! > >> So as it stands now I do *NOT* have > >> a copy of the UCP PUBLIC RECORD. > > >As posted where, to ACT? > > Mostly ACT, mostly starting in 1999, > although I did post some as early as > 1995, but was off the net for several > years due to economic collapse and > inability to maintain a computer system. > > I posted a lot to ARS, but that is mostly > duplicates of the ACT stuff. I've posted > to a few other newsgroups, but 95+% of > my UCP work has been posted to ACT. I was > posting as anyonymous@electra.lightlink.com > for the first few years, until Homer blocked my > access because he does not like free speech. > That actually worked out for the best because > my articles did not thread through the remailer. > > >> I have a CD with about 500 megs of backed-up > >> Free Agent and Agent files, which might be good > >> data that I can't read for some reason because > >> my Agent has deconfigured itself, OR large parts > >> of them might be scrambled and completely useless > >> because the data base compression was done by > >> my computer with bad memory for the last year. > > > >What kind of compression? Did you zip them? Or something else? > > No. Just the Free Agent and Agent database > files, which are compressed automatically. > > >> If Alex, Alex or anyone else wants a CD with my > >> latest news backups on it, I'd be happy to send > >> them a copy. I also have earlier backup CD's > >> . . . but of course they lack my recent work, > >> and I don't know if they are readable either. > >> I believed them all to be, until I needed them! > > >My guess is that if your computer difficulties are recent, that the CDs > >are OK. > > This computer has been a nightmare since I built > it about 4 or 5 years ago. It had bad memory since > I had a new motherboard installed about a year ago. > > >> Maybe some of the computer or news experts > >> can descramble and decompress it . . . or just > >> tell us that it really is totally useless garbage. > > > >Item 1) > >One of my clients had some Eudora and Outlook mail that needed sending, > >but the machine connected to the network was down. I took the files and > >put them on a Linux box. They loaded perfectly into Pine, despite the > >top "From " line being missing. > > > >Item 2) > >Pine stores mail and news on the same spool. Ergo the file formats are > >compatible. > > That's wonderful! > > Now tell me Pine reads Agent database files! :-) Evidently Agent files are not open standard format. ;( > >So, I would guess that unless Agent does something really weird to the > >files that they should be readable by another news or mail reader. > > It compresses them in its own file format. > > Agent and Free Agent apparently use different file formats, > because if you upgrade to Agent you CAN'T go back again. Maybe someone has written a conversion program. But you will be better off in the long run to get them in open format. > >> Looking back on my experience, I HATE compressed > >> databases. Somehow they always seem to "SAVE > >> SPACE" by ERASING or DELETING ALL MY DATA! > > > >I won't even guess on this one. If they were zipped, there are utilities > >to repair mangled zip files. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. > > > >> And I HATE file formats that require specialized > >> proprietary programs to read them. USELESS! > > > >Is Agent one of these? > > Yes. > > >> That's where I am right now. > > > >In summary, ease your mind about one thing: your last 9 months of Usenet > >postings are recoverable from my server without much difficulty. Tin > >should be able to thread them for you. > > > >> KP > > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org > > Excellent! > > Homer maintains a lot of stuff at clearing.org, > and has said he has a total log of ACT from > the beginning, but I have no idea how to get it. > My 56K modem connects at 26 to 28K, and > ACT is probably gigabytes of data by now. > > Thanks for writing! > > > KP That's all for now. Belly empty. Kitchen run. abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-856-1021861828-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 20 02:29:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4K2TrN20585 for ; Mon, 20 May 2002 02:29:53 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-856-1021861828-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 May 2002 02:30:29 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 20 May 2002 02:30:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 74068 invoked from network); 20 May 2002 02:30:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 May 2002 02:30:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2002 02:30:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.172] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 May 2002 02:30:27 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020519162347.0147ab38@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.193.245 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 02:30:27 -0000 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 69 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > > No, it never went away, it was just ignored for a long time > because of incorrect assumptions by Michaelson-Morely. If the problem was with michelson and morley , noone would have made a big deal out of it. In fact, Lorenz showed how to work around it even before relativity theory. The trouble was that the theory of electricity was in direct contradiction with the newtonian mechanics. Einstein's idea was to assume that the Maxwell theory of electricity is right and mechanics is a bit off. The rest of the his theory logically falls out of that (and I can show you how, if you want). Existence of aether is immaterial to the argument. > > It's back and working better than ever. > > What is GONE are bent space, telepathic particles, > time going backwards, big bangs and other insanity. What the "bent space" actually means in down-to-earth terms (and here is a nice link to UCP , to keep this discussion on-topic) is that to diffeernce between HERE and THERE depends on the way you compare. For instance you need to carry something form there to here. In general the result depends on how you do that. That's all. Classic Physics blatantly ignores such subtlety, and thus, as far as I am concernd, is more insane than general relativity. As far as something actually bending, that is a visual metaphor, notthing more. For instance, General gravity can be reformulated without any reference to curved space-time and, vice versa, the good old Newtonian gravity can be described as a bent space theory (which was done by Elie Cartan in 1930's). Similarly, QM notices that what we know affects what we see. Or that division of the world in parts such as here and there, the observer and the observed, is largely arbitrary. If we ignore this and pretend that the world is a solid immutable entity and we have nothing to do with it then what we see might look like weird magic effects. Again I believe QM is way more sane than the old-school Newtonian approach. As of big bang heory, it's a a domain of astrophysics, and I don't feel qualified to discuss it. > >(for KP) > >As of Rado's theory, that KP quotes, it is hard to make any definite > >judgement based on what he writes on his web page, but theories of > >that *type* (that is theories of "aether")were very popular in 18th- > >19th century. > > Yes. Because they work so well! If they worked well there'd be no need to alter them, would be? Mind you, Michelson-Morley experiment was not the only trouble with the 19th century approach. It's just the most famous one. Also, right or wrong, curent aetherless theories work way better than the 19th century physics. According to the old-school theories transistors, lasers and nukes are simply impossible. Proff is in the pudding. > > Even Einstein [that fraud] admitted that > Relativity was an aether theory, when > he wasn't busy denying it. You can formulate relativity with aether or without it, according to your taste. Aether is not a *necesary* assumption. It doesn't affect the logic at all. > > Rado corrected a major error. > > >The problem with them is that when you try to make them > >fit all the known facts, the properties of aether turn out to be a > >very strange indeed. > > No. Extremely SIMPLE! As I said, I have only read Rado's PR site. he doesn't give any "meat" there. Can you recap in a paragraph or so, what are these simple properties of aether? Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-857-1021871907-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 20 05:17:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4K5HpG08843 for ; Mon, 20 May 2002 05:17:51 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-857-1021871907-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 May 2002 05:18:27 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 20 May 2002 05:18:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 21940 invoked from network); 20 May 2002 05:18:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 May 2002 05:18:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2002 05:18:25 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g4K5HhU08830; Mon, 20 May 2002 05:17:43 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 05:17:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 70 On Mon, 20 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 02:30:27 -0000 > --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > > > > > No, it never went away, it was just ignored for a long time > > because of incorrect assumptions by Michaelson-Morely. > > If the problem was with michelson and morley , noone would have made > a big deal out of it. In fact, Lorenz showed how to work around it > even before relativity theory. The trouble was that the theory of > electricity was in direct contradiction with the newtonian mechanics. > Einstein's idea was to assume that the Maxwell theory of electricity > is right and mechanics is a bit off. The rest of the his theory > logically falls out of that (and I can show you how, if you want). > Existence of aether is immaterial to the argument. > > > > > It's back and working better than ever. > > > > What is GONE are bent space, telepathic particles, > > time going backwards, big bangs and other insanity. > > What the "bent space" actually means in down-to-earth terms (and here > is a nice link to UCP , to keep this discussion on-topic) is that to > diffeernce between HERE and THERE depends on the way you compare. For > instance you need to carry something form there to here. In general > the result depends on how you do that. That's all. Classic Physics > blatantly ignores such subtlety, and thus, as far as I am concernd, > is more insane than general relativity. > > As far as something actually bending, that is a visual metaphor, Yes. All these maps are metaphors. Unless mathematics is here before God, mathematics is a metaphor too. The fact that much of the physical world "follows" mathematical models, sometimes nearly persuades me that mathematics is "discovered" rather than invented. (One can discover a giraffe. Only God can invent one). My present view is that models, mathematical models, are maps, metaphors which have beauty or utility insofar as they are useful: in explaining, understanding, and predicting phenomena. And in doing such with economy of means. These are the terms of argument that I find useful, not rightness or wrongness. Newtonian physics is not "wrong"; it is useful within the domain in which it maps to the territory. There happens to be a territory to which it will not map. The only insanity I see is to confuse the map with the territory. All maps are not territory; no map is territory > notthing more. For instance, General gravity can be reformulated > without any reference to curved space-time and, vice versa, the good > old Newtonian gravity can be described as a bent space theory (which > was done by Elie Cartan in 1930's). > > Similarly, QM notices that what we know affects what we see. Or that > division of the world in parts such as here and there, the observer > and the observed, is largely arbitrary. > > If we ignore this and pretend that the world is a solid immutable > entity and we have nothing to do with it then what we see might look > like weird magic effects. Well said! This would be the opposite to Spinoza: all events are a modification of God. >Again I believe QM is way more sane than > the old-school Newtonian approach. QM is neither sane nor insane. The same cannot be said of scientists. But isn't there realms which QM doesn't reach? Both the large and the small? What is quantum foam? Brian Greene has written on this. The first third of his book is a resume on the history of physics. The last of it an account of string theories. There's lots of info on the web, and the book is marvellous. > As of big bang heory, it's a a domain of astrophysics, and I don't > feel qualified to discuss it. Me neither -- as a scientist. As a philosopher, I will echo Spinoza. A modification of God, fundamentally no more impressive, no more miraculous than the explosion of an acorn into a mighty Oak. There is a place where Big Bangs are going off as far as the eye can see, like fireflies on a summer night. > > >(for KP) > > >As of Rado's theory, that KP quotes, it is hard to make any > definite > > >judgement based on what he writes on his web page, but theories of > > >that *type* (that is theories of "aether")were very popular in > 18th- > > >19th century. > > > > Yes. Because they work so well! > > If they worked well there'd be no need to alter them, would be? Mind > you, Michelson-Morley experiment was not the only trouble with the > 19th century approach. It's just the most famous one. > > Also, right or wrong, curent aetherless theories work way better than > the 19th century physics. According to the old-school theories > transistors, lasers and nukes are simply impossible. Proff is in the > pudding. > > > > > Even Einstein [that fraud] admitted that > > Relativity was an aether theory, when > > he wasn't busy denying it. > > You can formulate relativity with aether or without it, according to > your taste. Aether is not a *necesary* assumption. It doesn't affect > the logic at all. > > > > > Rado corrected a major error. > > > > >The problem with them is that when you try to make them > > >fit all the known facts, the properties of aether turn out to be a > > >very strange indeed. > > > > No. Extremely SIMPLE! > > As I said, I have only read Rado's PR site. he doesn't give > any "meat" there. Can you recap in a paragraph or so, what are these > simple properties of aether? > > Best, > Oleg I'll pass on Rado for the time being. The diagram is fascinating. It reminds me of the engine of the Crab Nebula. I'll post the URL one of these days. Best, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-858-1021874219-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 20 05:56:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4K5uNG01869 for ; Mon, 20 May 2002 05:56:23 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-858-1021874219-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 20 May 2002 05:56:59 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 20 May 2002 05:56:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 86315 invoked from network); 20 May 2002 05:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 20 May 2002 05:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 May 2002 05:56:58 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g4K5uGT01810; Mon, 20 May 2002 05:56:16 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 05:56:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 On Sun, 19 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 23:13:57 -0000 > From: punkfloyd.rm > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > Hm. I don't want to dwell too much on this subject, because IMHO, it > is off-topic for this group, but I'll interejcts a few comments here/ I would disagree on the off-topic. If U stands for Universal there can be no subject off-topic. To say it another way, if we are immersed in the mind of God permeating the body of God, what could be off-topic? > > Some *scientists* speak of what is beyond the reach of science, but > my > > impression is that they are in the minority -- although a very > creative > > minority. But QM seems on the verge of obsolescence, in favor of > > super-strings -- if only the mathematics were more tractable. > > Hm. Reading pop science literature might led one to believe that > super-strings somehow supercede quantum theory, but thsi is not > correct. Superstring theory (and most of its competitors) is a 100% > quantum theory. It is built on top of the basic quantum mechanics, > like high-school algebra is built on top of arithmetics. What is > being discarded is the notion that everything is built out of > infinitely small pointlike particles. This notion has been giving > scientists headaches for more than 100 years by now, it's good to see > it go. To a certain extent I agree. These "pointlike particles" behave very strangely; have weird connections at a distance; pop into and out of existence. The superstring models I have seen are complex geometric "caves" with a "stick" capable of various degrees of freedom moving, rotating within this cave such that its ends just fit into and lock in various slots according to the state of the particle. There is also the concept of many more dimensions of space than QM is used to. > > computers might help here. As it is, because the equations are so > highly > > recursive, all the computing power on Earth now, if harnessed to the > > task, would take over a hundred years to solve the first hard > equation. > > I am not sure which equation are you talking about. My understanding > of the situation is that the main problem is that the superstring > theory is not yet at the point where it can make definite > predictions. And if a thory does not make predictions, it is > impossible to verify. If memory serves, SOME predictions have indeed been verified. These verifications have greatly encouraged physicists to jump on the bandwagon. But the core equations cannot be computed right now and this factor is immensely frustrating. Check out Brian Greene's book. Although it is popular and readable, he is one of the big guns of string theory -- and a gifted writer. > > The approximations do not suffice for bringing the theory to > maturity. I > > do not understand the details. What I do understand is elegant and > > beautiful, in contrast to QM, which although useful is ugly. > > I believe you are thinking of something that is called "Standard > Model of Particle Physics", not QM as such. Standard Model is just a > collection of known facts about particles, with little rhyme or > reason to it. It really is ugly. Somewhat unfortuantely, it is also > astonishingly efficient and workable, which makes any attempts to > change it a very hard endeavour indeed. > > In contrast, Quantum mechanics is a very simple and elegant theory, > however very counterintuitive. (Should not be a surprise, for all our > experience concerns thins far larger than atoms and molecules) Well, I think I will defer further comment for the moment. I gave away my copy of Greene's book, so cannot cite details of the deficiencies of each theory, beyond the obvious one that either theory alone cannot explain and predict all measurable phenomena. abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-860-1021968330-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 08:04:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.92]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4L84sZ22714 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 08:04:55 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-860-1021968330-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 08:05:30 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 08:05:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 5039 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 08:05:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 08:05:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 08:05:29 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.160]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA07398 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 03:05:25 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020521002440.00b7b660@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020519161341.014807a8@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 00:24:40 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] OH FUCK! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 79 Abner writes: At 01:01 AM 5/20/2002 +0000, you wrote: >On Sun, 19 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 16:13:41 -0700 > >[KP]: >> >> I tried out teranews.com, >> >> which accepted my debit card >> >> for a no payment, but was useless >> >> because it only had a fraction of >> >> the articles in ACT and ARS that >> >> Homer's server did. Forget that! >> > >> >Do you mean a fraction of the *articles* or a fraction of the >> >*newsgroups*? >> >> A fraction of the articles. I took my headers >> list from homer's server and tried to get the >> bodies on teranews. MOST of the articles, >> new or old, were unavailable on ternanews. >> >> >My news server has over 24,000 articles posted to ACT dating back 9 >> >months. >> >> Cool. >> >> Homer has ACT logged forever, but I >> don't know how to get it from his server. > >Send him fifty bucks for a "Web-server shell account" ? Fifty Bucks! That's more than I've spent on food in the last three months! >I gather that would give you unrestricted access to his news feed. >I don't know how he works his archives. . . Homer is a dead issue. >> >> When I tried to switch back I >> >> lost *ALL* of my newsgroups >> >> and stored articles. I have a >> >> backup that's only about 10 >> >> days old, and there is a huge >> >> amount of data in it, but for >> >> some reason my Agent is not >> >> reading it properly. Either it's >> >> scrambled or something else >> >> is wrong, so right now I don't >> >> even have Homer's free ACT >> >> and ARS feed. *BUMMER!* >> >> >Is the backup compressed or not? You might try looking at it with a text >> >editor, like notepad or something and see what you can discover. >> >> It's compressed in Agents database format. >> If you look at it with notepad, you see some >> text mixed with a lot of gibberish, which I >> assumed is the database compresssion. >> >> I have been unable to open it with Agent >> recently, and my computer is such a total >> state of collapse I'm on apathy on it. >> >> >Do you not have Homer's feed because Homer cut you off, or because Agent >> >is not reconfigured properly? >> >> Homer hasn't cut me off from his free news service >> of ACT and ARS, but I can't get them because >> agent won't let me type in a newsgroup, you HAVE >> to download the list of groups, which it won't do >> because I don't have server access for that. > >Fifty bucks ;( Way out of my ballpark right now. >Yeh, that's a bummer. News readers, ALL of them that I ahve seen ALL >want to do that. They really index the articles by an arbitrary number, >and that number is, of course, different for each news service. Fucked me up on the learning curve! >Lynx avoids that problem somehow. I think it just asks for the last 30 >articles. If you want to read further back it just computes and asks >for the 30 before that. But lynx isn't a news reader, really. > >> >I suppose you have tried rebooting several times? Sometimes Windows >> >doesn't get it until the third reboot. Also consider re-installing >> >Agent. ;( >> >> I did reinstall agent. That appears to have wiped out the >> articles and newsgroups I still had logged on my hard drive. > >Well, if you want to know, you could browse the Agent directory (where >it stores it's files) and see if they are still there. >That's problemo numero uno. If they ARE there, say thanks to whatever >deity you may believe in (or not) and move them all to a new directory. There's *LOTS* of stuff there . . . I just can't read it and I don't know if its garbage or not. >Then start fresh and see if you can get a new list from Homer's free ACT >news server. That would be my strategy. Yes. I'm looking for a reliable news server to start with. >It sounds like Agent is easily confused and due to the above, that is >understandable. I would guess that it is trying to make requests to one >news server based on lists from another news server, and that just >doesn't work. OH! This could be vital info! Maybe teranews.com is OK? It appeared to me that MOST of the articles on homer's server were NOT at teranews. DID I FUCK UP THERE? >> >> As it stands today, I have >> >> ZERO news access, and >> >> NO access to my last few >> >> years of work threaded. >> >> >> >> I don't know if it's totally gone, >> >> or I just can't see it right now. > >It MIGHT be able to build a new list from the files in a new directory >IF the old list (which doesn't work anymore) is removed or re-named. >The point is to minimise confusion by separating old files from new >ones. And start fresh with a new default directory. Yes. I understand that now. I was a total idiot and didn't back up because I thought I had a recent backup. >> >Again, see if you can load it into a text editor. If it looks like text, >> >the chances are that the files are OK. >> >> It's text mixed with gibberish. >> I THOUGHT that was database >> compression. Now I don't know. >> I might just be gibberish. > >Worry about that later -- after you get up and running again with >current news. Yes! That is the correct order of importances. >> >> And I'm looking for a new news reader, >> >> that works as well as Agent [I *LOVE* >> >> Agent, except when it can't find my data] >> >> and stores the news is OPEN file format. >> >> >Tin is regarded by many as the best newsreader. But I don't know if >> >there is a Windows version. > >I just checked. There IS a Windows version. You have to install Cygwin >first, maybe. I don't know the details. You would have to investigate. > >>Otherwise you would need to run it on Linux >> >or some flavor of Unix. It might be ported to OS-X by now. I haven't >> >checked. >> >> I have linux installed, but it doesn't see >> my modem and my mouse doesn't work >> right and I can see it will take me several >> months I don't have now to learn to use it. > >You might have a winmodem. ;( >They don't work with Linux. >Either get a real modem, external is best, or recently there ARE >attempts to make free software to run winmodems on Linux. >But you don't have time to fuck around with that. Even if it works it >will be a pain, and you will spend much too much time on it. Already! >The mouse is an Xwindow problem. Somehow Xwindow doen't have the right >info. I've never heard of a mouse that can't be configured. At the worst >case you might need to get a new mouse for 20 bucks that is PS2 or MS >compatible. But again I haven't seen a mouse that won't work on Lin. I don't even know what Xwindow is. My Logitech trackball is not listed in my Mandrake Linux install. The mouse part works ok now, but no scroll wheel. >> >> I WANT IT TO THREAD THE ARTICLES! >> >> An unthreaded news reader has NO clue! >> >> >Tin will thread or un-thread the articles. I believe the articles are >> >stored in the order they are received. Then the software scans the >> >headers and makes an index. Using the index information only it can >> >present the articles to the user in whatever arrangement he requires. >> >> Good. I think Homer uses Tin, but >> his articles never come up threaded. > >???? I assumed he would thread if the software let him. Silly assumption. >> >> I have most of the articles as Eudora files, >> >> so I haven't lost the primary data, but they >> >> are NOT threaded or dated and are NOT in >> >> easy-to-use news format or *AS POSTED* >> >> and of course they don't have message IDs >> >> so you can't search for them very precisely. >> >> >These would be the original articles, before they were posted? >> >> Yes. I compose in eudora because one false >> "escape" wipes your article in Agent. Then I >> cut and paste from Eudora to Agent [Free Agent >> before that] to post to usenet. > >I can see why you love Agent!!!!! It's WONDERFUL for posting, threading, finding articles, and lots of other stuff. I ONLY hate it when it loses all my data! >> >> So as it stands now I do *NOT* have >> >> a copy of the UCP PUBLIC RECORD. >> >> >As posted where, to ACT? >> >> Mostly ACT, mostly starting in 1999, >> although I did post some as early as >> 1995, but was off the net for several >> years due to economic collapse and >> inability to maintain a computer system. >> >> I posted a lot to ARS, but that is mostly >> duplicates of the ACT stuff. I've posted >> to a few other newsgroups, but 95+% of >> my UCP work has been posted to ACT. I was >> posting as anyonymous@electra.lightlink.com >> for the first few years, until Homer blocked my >> access because he does not like free speech. >> That actually worked out for the best because >> my articles did not thread through the remailer. >> >> >> I have a CD with about 500 megs of backed-up >> >> Free Agent and Agent files, which might be good >> >> data that I can't read for some reason because >> >> my Agent has deconfigured itself, OR large parts >> >> of them might be scrambled and completely useless >> >> because the data base compression was done by >> >> my computer with bad memory for the last year. >> > >> >What kind of compression? Did you zip them? Or something else? >> >> No. Just the Free Agent and Agent database >> files, which are compressed automatically. >> >> >> If Alex, Alex or anyone else wants a CD with my >> >> latest news backups on it, I'd be happy to send >> >> them a copy. I also have earlier backup CD's >> >> . . . but of course they lack my recent work, >> >> and I don't know if they are readable either. >> >> I believed them all to be, until I needed them! >> >> >My guess is that if your computer difficulties are recent, that the CDs >> >are OK. >> >> This computer has been a nightmare since I built >> it about 4 or 5 years ago. It had bad memory since >> I had a new motherboard installed about a year ago. >> >> >> Maybe some of the computer or news experts >> >> can descramble and decompress it . . . or just >> >> tell us that it really is totally useless garbage. >> > >> >Item 1) >> >One of my clients had some Eudora and Outlook mail that needed sending, >> >but the machine connected to the network was down. I took the files and >> >put them on a Linux box. They loaded perfectly into Pine, despite the >> >top "From " line being missing. >> > >> >Item 2) >> >Pine stores mail and news on the same spool. Ergo the file formats are >> >compatible. >> >> That's wonderful! >> >> Now tell me Pine reads Agent database files! :-) > >Evidently Agent files are not open standard format. ;( > >> >So, I would guess that unless Agent does something really weird to the >> >files that they should be readable by another news or mail reader. >> >> It compresses them in its own file format. >> >> Agent and Free Agent apparently use different file formats, >> because if you upgrade to Agent you CAN'T go back again. > >Maybe someone has written a conversion program. But you will be better >off in the long run to get them in open format. Yes! NO MORE COMPRESSED FILES FOR ME! It's *INSANE* to worry about compression when I have 60 gigs on just one hard drive. >> >> Looking back on my experience, I HATE compressed >> >> databases. Somehow they always seem to "SAVE >> >> SPACE" by ERASING or DELETING ALL MY DATA! >> > >> >I won't even guess on this one. If they were zipped, there are utilities >> >to repair mangled zip files. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. >> > >> >> And I HATE file formats that require specialized >> >> proprietary programs to read them. USELESS! >> > >> >Is Agent one of these? >> >> Yes. >> >> >> That's where I am right now. >> > >> >In summary, ease your mind about one thing: your last 9 months of Usenet >> >postings are recoverable from my server without much difficulty. Tin >> >should be able to thread them for you. >> > >> >> KP >> > abner >> >abner@sdf.lonestar.org >> >> Excellent! >> >> Homer maintains a lot of stuff at clearing.org, >> and has said he has a total log of ACT from >> the beginning, but I have no idea how to get it. >> My 56K modem connects at 26 to 28K, and >> ACT is probably gigabytes of data by now. >> >> Thanks for writing! >> >> >> KP > >That's all for now. Belly empty. Kitchen run. > > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org Thanks for writing! I appreciate your perspective! KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-861-1021968333-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 08:05:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.92]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4L84xZ22721 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 08:04:59 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-861-1021968333-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 08:05:33 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 08:05:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 51701 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 08:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 08:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 08:05:32 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.160]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA07402 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 03:05:29 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020521010145.01a60e20@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020519162347.0147ab38@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 01:01:45 -0700 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 80 At 02:30 AM 5/20/2002 -0000, you wrote: >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > >> >> No, it never went away, it was just ignored for a long time >> because of incorrect assumptions by Michaelson-Morely. > >If the problem was with michelson and morley , noone would have made >a big deal out of it. In fact, Lorenz showed how to work around it >even before relativity theory. The trouble was that the theory of >electricity was in direct contradiction with the newtonian mechanics. >Einstein's idea was to assume that the Maxwell theory of electricity >is right and mechanics is a bit off. The rest of the his theory >logically falls out of that (and I can show you how, if you want). >Existence of aether is immaterial to the argument. Existence of aether is VITAL to explaining action-at-a-distance. Without a medium, there can be no waves. Even children can understand that! >> It's back and working better than ever. >> >> What is GONE are bent space, telepathic particles, >> time going backwards, big bangs and other insanity. > >What the "bent space" actually means in down-to-earth terms (and here >is a nice link to UCP , to keep this discussion on-topic) is that to >diffeernce between HERE and THERE depends on the way you compare. For >instance you need to carry something form there to here. In general >the result depends on how you do that. That's all. Classic Physics >blatantly ignores such subtlety, and thus, as far as I am concernd, >is more insane than general relativity. Classic Physics produced E=MC^2 Einstein just stole it and invented an insane explanation for it. >As far as something actually bending, that is a visual metaphor, >notthing more. For instance, General gravity can be reformulated >without any reference to curved space-time and, vice versa, the good >old Newtonian gravity can be described as a bent space theory (which >was done by Elie Cartan in 1930's). Rado explains gravity quite simply. CHECK IT OUT! >Similarly, QM notices that what we know affects what we see. Or that >division of the world in parts such as here and there, the observer >and the observed, is largely arbitrary. And invents insane explanations for it. >If we ignore this and pretend that the world is a solid immutable >entity and we have nothing to do with it then what we see might look >like weird magic effects. Again I believe QM is way more sane than >the old-school Newtonian approach. But I'm not comparing QM to Newton. I'm comparing it to Rado's aether theory. >As of big bang heory, it's a a domain of astrophysics, and I don't >feel qualified to discuss it. OK. I'm not either. But if you are going to tell me the entire universe was compressed into zero space, . . . I'll tell you . . . GO INTO COMEDY! >> >(for KP) >> >As of Rado's theory, that KP quotes, it is hard to make any >definite >> >judgement based on what he writes on his web page, but theories of >> >that *type* (that is theories of "aether")were very popular in >18th- >> >19th century. >> Yes. Because they work so well! >If they worked well there'd be no need to alter them, would be? Mind >you, Michelson-Morley experiment was not the only trouble with the >19th century approach. It's just the most famous one. Yes. One little error can make a HUGE difference! Gravity *IS* the aether wind. The plane of Michaelson-Morley's experiment was 90 degrees wrong. >Also, right or wrong, curent aetherless theories work way better than >the 19th century physics. According to the old-school theories >transistors, lasers and nukes are simply impossible. Proff is in the >pudding. Please Read Rado! >> Even Einstein [that fraud] admitted that >> Relativity was an aether theory, when >> he wasn't busy denying it. > >You can formulate relativity with aether or without it, according to >your taste. Aether is not a *necesary* assumption. It doesn't affect >the logic at all. It may not affect the MATH, but it certainly affects the LOGIC. >> Rado corrected a major error. >> >> >The problem with them is that when you try to make them >> >fit all the known facts, the properties of aether turn out to be a >> >very strange indeed. >> >> No. Extremely SIMPLE! > >As I said, I have only read Rado's PR site. he doesn't give >any "meat" there. Can you recap in a paragraph or so, what are these >simple properties of aether? That moving diagram *IS* the "meat" . . . of the entire universe! It shows the flows of a particle, planet, solar system, or galaxy. His theory lays out EXACTLY WHY! >Best, >Oleg The basic explanation is . . . ========= IDEAL GAS ========= I wish you would buy Rado's book and read it. I truly believe you will be STUNNED when he lays it out for you. It's comparable to UCP in it's total simplicity and overwhelming completeness. It's also a superb history of physics. Even I could follow along with the arguments and math, though I couldn't recreate or defend them to you. You obviously have the sophistication to really appreciate him. Rado GUTS Einstein and the QM morons like I gut Helle Rum $cumbug . . . and he develops *ALL* their math from his totally simple model, without *ANY* of their bizarrely insane beliefs. ===================================== His contribution to physics is comparable to my contribution to N-Lightenment. I promise you will understand more from his book than ALL the other physics texts you have studied. ===================================== I stand on that statement. I kid you not! I studied physics at the University of Chicago in the 1960's. Rado is WAY SMARTER than ANY of my teachers were. READ AND SEE! Read it while he's still alive . . . and you can say you knew him! If you don't thank me, I'll apologize! KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-862-1021973271-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 09:27:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4L9RFF08691 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 09:27:15 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-862-1021973271-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 09:27:52 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 09:27:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 89812 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 09:27:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 09:27:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 09:27:51 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.160]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA18369 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 04:27:48 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020521022215.00b7b660@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 02:22:15 -0700 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 At 05:17 AM 5/20/2002 +0000, you wrote: >On Mon, 20 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > >> Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 02:30:27 -0000 > >> --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: >> >> > >> > No, it never went away, it was just ignored for a long time >> > because of incorrect assumptions by Michaelson-Morely. >> >> If the problem was with michelson and morley , noone would have made >> a big deal out of it. In fact, Lorenz showed how to work around it >> even before relativity theory. The trouble was that the theory of >> electricity was in direct contradiction with the newtonian mechanics. >> Einstein's idea was to assume that the Maxwell theory of electricity >> is right and mechanics is a bit off. The rest of the his theory >> logically falls out of that (and I can show you how, if you want). >> Existence of aether is immaterial to the argument. >> >> > >> > It's back and working better than ever. >> > >> > What is GONE are bent space, telepathic particles, >> > time going backwards, big bangs and other insanity. >> >> What the "bent space" actually means in down-to-earth terms (and here >> is a nice link to UCP , to keep this discussion on-topic) is that to >> diffeernce between HERE and THERE depends on the way you compare. For >> instance you need to carry something form there to here. In general >> the result depends on how you do that. That's all. Classic Physics >> blatantly ignores such subtlety, and thus, as far as I am concernd, >> is more insane than general relativity. >> >> As far as something actually bending, that is a visual metaphor, > >Yes. All these maps are metaphors. Unless mathematics is here before >God, mathematics is a metaphor too. The fact that much of the physical >world "follows" mathematical models, sometimes nearly persuades me that >mathematics is "discovered" rather than invented. (One can discover a >giraffe. Only God can invent one). Models are not math. Insane models can produce accurate math. >My present view is that models, mathematical models, are maps, metaphors >which have beauty or utility insofar as they are useful: in explaining, >understanding, and predicting phenomena. And in doing such with economy >of means. These are the terms of argument that I find useful, not >rightness or wrongness. Newtonian physics is not "wrong"; it is useful >within the domain in which it maps to the territory. There happens to be >a territory to which it will not map. Sure! Get a GOOD map! Read Rado! >The only insanity I see is to confuse the map with the territory. >All maps are not territory; no map is territory > >> notthing more. For instance, General gravity can be reformulated >> without any reference to curved space-time and, vice versa, the good >> old Newtonian gravity can be described as a bent space theory (which >> was done by Elie Cartan in 1930's). >> >> Similarly, QM notices that what we know affects what we see. Or that >> division of the world in parts such as here and there, the observer >> and the observed, is largely arbitrary. >> >> If we ignore this and pretend that the world is a solid immutable >> entity and we have nothing to do with it then what we see might look >> like weird magic effects. > >Well said! > >This would be the opposite to Spinoza: all events are a modification of >God. > >>Again I believe QM is way more sane than >> the old-school Newtonian approach. > >QM is neither sane nor insane. The same cannot be said of scientists. >But isn't there realms which QM doesn't reach? Both the large and the >small? What is quantum foam? > >Brian Greene has written on this. The first third of his book is a >resume on the history of physics. The last of it an account of string >theories. There's lots of info on the web, and the book is marvellous. Read Rado and tell me that. >> As of big bang heory, it's a a domain of astrophysics, and I don't >> feel qualified to discuss it. > >Me neither -- as a scientist. As a philosopher, I will echo Spinoza. A >modification of God, fundamentally no more impressive, no more >miraculous than the explosion of an acorn into a mighty Oak. > >There is a place where Big Bangs are going off as far as the eye can >see, like fireflies on a summer night. > >> > >(for KP) >> > >As of Rado's theory, that KP quotes, it is hard to make any >> definite >> > >judgement based on what he writes on his web page, but theories of >> > >that *type* (that is theories of "aether")were very popular in >> 18th- >> > >19th century. >> > >> > Yes. Because they work so well! >> >> If they worked well there'd be no need to alter them, would be? Mind >> you, Michelson-Morley experiment was not the only trouble with the >> 19th century approach. It's just the most famous one. >> >> Also, right or wrong, curent aetherless theories work way better than >> the 19th century physics. According to the old-school theories >> transistors, lasers and nukes are simply impossible. Proff is in the >> pudding. >> >> > >> > Even Einstein [that fraud] admitted that >> > Relativity was an aether theory, when >> > he wasn't busy denying it. >> >> You can formulate relativity with aether or without it, according to >> your taste. Aether is not a *necesary* assumption. It doesn't affect >> the logic at all. >> >> > >> > Rado corrected a major error. >> > >> > >The problem with them is that when you try to make them >> > >fit all the known facts, the properties of aether turn out to be a >> > >very strange indeed. >> > >> > No. Extremely SIMPLE! >> >> As I said, I have only read Rado's PR site. he doesn't give >> any "meat" there. Can you recap in a paragraph or so, what are these >> simple properties of aether? >> >> Best, >> Oleg > >I'll pass on Rado for the time being. The diagram is fascinating. You've just passed on the Grand Unified Theory. >It reminds me of the engine of the Crab Nebula. I'll post the URL one of >these days. It's the engine of the physical universe. KP >Best, > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-863-1021973274-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 09:27:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.92]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4L9RGF08703 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 09:27:16 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-863-1021973274-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 09:27:54 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 09:27:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 15521 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 09:27:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 09:27:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 09:27:53 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.160]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA18372 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 04:27:51 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020521022410.01a4b828@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 02:24:10 -0700 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 82 At 05:56 AM 5/20/2002 +0000, you wrote: >On Sun, 19 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 23:13:57 -0000 >> From: punkfloyd.rm > >> --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: >> >> Hm. I don't want to dwell too much on this subject, because IMHO, it >> is off-topic for this group, but I'll interejcts a few comments here/ > >I would disagree on the off-topic. If U stands for Universal there can >be no subject off-topic. > >To say it another way, if we are immersed in the mind of God permeating >the body of God, what could be off-topic? > >> > Some *scientists* speak of what is beyond the reach of science, but >> my >> > impression is that they are in the minority -- although a very >> creative >> > minority. But QM seems on the verge of obsolescence, in favor of >> > super-strings -- if only the mathematics were more tractable. >> >> Hm. Reading pop science literature might led one to believe that >> super-strings somehow supercede quantum theory, but thsi is not >> correct. Superstring theory (and most of its competitors) is a 100% >> quantum theory. It is built on top of the basic quantum mechanics, >> like high-school algebra is built on top of arithmetics. What is >> being discarded is the notion that everything is built out of >> infinitely small pointlike particles. This notion has been giving >> scientists headaches for more than 100 years by now, it's good to see >> it go. > >To a certain extent I agree. These "pointlike particles" behave very >strangely; have weird connections at a distance; pop into and out of >existence. The superstring models I have seen are complex geometric >"caves" with a "stick" capable of various degrees of freedom moving, >rotating within this cave such that its ends just fit into and lock in >various slots according to the state of the particle. There is also the >concept of many more dimensions of space than QM is used to. RONSENSE! . . . as it were! >> > computers might help here. As it is, because the equations are so >> highly >> > recursive, all the computing power on Earth now, if harnessed to the >> > task, would take over a hundred years to solve the first hard >> equation. >> >> I am not sure which equation are you talking about. My understanding >> of the situation is that the main problem is that the superstring >> theory is not yet at the point where it can make definite >> predictions. And if a thory does not make predictions, it is >> impossible to verify. > >If memory serves, SOME predictions have indeed been verified. These >verifications have greatly encouraged physicists to jump on the >bandwagon. But the core equations cannot be computed right now and this >factor is immensely frustrating. Check out Brian Greene's book. Although >it is popular and readable, he is one of the big guns of string theory >-- and a gifted writer. Read Rado and LAUGH at the morons! >> > The approximations do not suffice for bringing the theory to >> maturity. I >> > do not understand the details. What I do understand is elegant and >> > beautiful, in contrast to QM, which although useful is ugly. >> >> I believe you are thinking of something that is called "Standard >> Model of Particle Physics", not QM as such. Standard Model is just a >> collection of known facts about particles, with little rhyme or >> reason to it. It really is ugly. Somewhat unfortuantely, it is also >> astonishingly efficient and workable, which makes any attempts to >> change it a very hard endeavour indeed. >> >> In contrast, Quantum mechanics is a very simple and elegant theory, >> however very counterintuitive. (Should not be a surprise, for all our >> experience concerns thins far larger than atoms and molecules) > >Well, I think I will defer further comment for the moment. I gave away >my copy of Greene's book, so cannot cite details of the deficiencies of >each theory, beyond the obvious one that either theory alone cannot >explain and predict all measurable phenomena. READ RADO! KP > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-864-1021983922-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 12:24:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LCOjG25724 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 12:24:45 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-864-1021983922-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 12:25:23 -0000 X-Sender: justintonation@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 12:25:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 89667 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 12:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 12:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 12:25:21 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.148] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 12:25:07 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "justintonation" X-Originating-IP: 63.12.2.152 X-Yahoo-Profile: justintonation MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 12:25:07 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 83 Hello folks, I am putting together a glossary entries for some of the unfamiliar wors in KP's N-LIGHTENMENT NOW article. The other articles I will do in time. One of the words is "know" as in until you get up to know. KP? Do you want to offer a glossary entry for that one? I assume it means up to know on the "know to mystery chart" but I could be mistaken. Here are some other words and expressions that need to be defined for full of better compreension of the article. computation item valence dramatizing interiorize hysterical compulsive identity circuits engrams implants incidents process commands chains of earlier similar incidents dissassociation / denial indentification misemotion listing actions hallucination cognitions turns on flattened [eg no one has ever flattened UCP] charge not know [eg at the begining of the session the seeker will be in not know] freestyle at effect emotional tone level legs of the process protest havingness overran natter Handle [ eg the handle is to ...] figure figure repair lists justin [nb this is my name so no defintion is necessary ;-)] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-865-1021988672-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 13:43:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.91]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LDhtA23603 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 13:43:55 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-865-1021988672-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 13:44:32 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 13:44:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 42842 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 13:44:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 13:44:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.85) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 13:44:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.177] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 13:44:06 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020521002440.00b7b660@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 13:44:05 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] OH FUCK! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 84 If worst comes to worst, Google does keep archive of all usenet postings from 1981. Just do a search on your own name. It'd be probably a last ditch effort, retrieving news from the web format will be a bitch (unless somehow automated), but the data is there. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-866-1021997202-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 16:06:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LG65u25658 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 16:06:06 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-866-1021997202-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 16:06:43 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 16:06:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 19341 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 16:06:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 16:06:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 16:06:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.135] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 16:06:37 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:06:36 -0000 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 85 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > > As far as something actually bending, that is a visual metaphor, > > Yes. All these maps are metaphors. Unless mathematics is here before > God, mathematics is a metaphor too. The fact that much of the physical > world "follows" mathematical models, sometimes nearly persuades me that > mathematics is "discovered" rather than invented. (One can discover a > giraffe. Only God can invent one). I don't think it's all that surprising, given we tend to alter our models until they fit what we see. What is surprising is that, unlike many of our other theories, mathematics is very self-consistent. > > My present view is that models, mathematical models, are maps, metaphors > which have beauty or utility insofar as they are useful: in explaining, > understanding, and predicting phenomena. And in doing such with economy > of means. These are the terms of argument that I find useful, not > rightness or wrongness. Newtonian physics is not "wrong"; it is useful > within the domain in which it maps to the territory. There happens to be > a territory to which it will not map. Exactomundo :) There's another point. A physical theory usually employes one (or more) intuitive models, that help to figure out what is going on without actually solving the equations. Bent space, smeared particle, aether are all such models. These can be very helpful as a way to quickly evaluate the situation and as a guide in further research. Oftentimes, however, you can have drastically different models that are 100% equivalent mathematically. Quantum mechanics, for example, has at least a dozen interpretations. > > The only insanity I see is to confuse the map with the territory. > All maps are not territory; no map is territory Here'll be extravagant and disagree. (This doesn't have a lot to do with the rest of discussion, tho) What is map made of? What is the difference between a map and anything else, say, a rubber duck? If we treat something as a map of something else, it becomes a map. If we treat a rubber duck as a map of London, it will become a (crude) map of London, as far as you are concerned. The difference is in your attitude, not in some inherent properties of maps and territories. > > If we ignore this and pretend that the world is a solid immutable > > entity and we have nothing to do with it then what we see might look > > like weird magic effects. > > Well said! > > This would be the opposite to Spinoza: all events are a modification of > God. I am not sure what you are getting at here. > >Again I believe QM is way more sane than > > the old-school Newtonian approach. > > QM is neither sane nor insane. The same cannot be said of scientists. And that's why they have invented all kinds of quality-control procedures (such as verification with experiments). The system is not perfect but it works most of the time. > But isn't there realms which QM doesn't reach? Both the large and the > small? What is quantum foam? Unfortunately this is a question with no single answer. Because "quantum" really can stand for 3 things: General Quantum mechanics, Quantum field theory and the Standard Model of Particle Physics. General QM is an extremely general framework and it can accomodate zillions of different applications, from sub-atomic particles, to superstrings, to lasers, to quantum computers, to neutron stars. QM is generally thought to be universally applicable. So far it passes all tests wth flying colors. Note: People disagree on what QM "actually means" , but that doesn't affect the actual math. There's also Quantum Field Theory(QFT) - an application of Quantum Mechanics to fields (that is things that fill entire space). Here situation is paradoxical: QFT is *known* to be non-consistent, yet it gives amazingly precise answers (like one part in quadrillionths). String theory, in part, is an attempt to clean up the inconsistencies. QFT is known not to be universally applicable, but the situations where it breaks down are beyond our reach at the moment. Standard Model is the collection of known facts about sub-atomic particles, such as quarks and electrons. It includes Electroweak theory and Quantum Chromodynamics, both are types of QFT. Standard model is ugly and gross, yet it is in a very good agreement with the experiment (with a couple of notable glitches!). It's an evolving thing and people hope to make it less ugly. By all indications Standard Model is not the final word. Quantum foam. There are 2 versions of quantum foam. Both are parts of the effort to apply quantum mechanics to gravity. Since noone knows how to work out a full quantum gravity theory, these are very speculative entities indeed. The original idea (originating in late 19th century, by the way) is that at a very small scale the space is not at all like the nice Euclidean space we all know and love. The microscopic structure might turn out to be very complex indeed, perhaps resembling a higher- dimensional version of a foam. The other version of quantum foam is called "spin foams" or Topological Quantum Field Theory (TQFT). It's a very strange beast. Basically it represents space as a sort of a network. Or one can say that every piece of space functions like a quantum computer. When you allow the computer to change with time, you get a sort of a foam. This is one of the most developed alternatives to the string theory, but it too has many hurdles to overcome. > > Brian Greene has written on this. The first third of his book is a > resume on the history of physics. The last of it an account of string > theories. There's lots of info on the web, and the book is marvellous. Yes, I know his works. You might also want to read very nice book by Lee Smolin called "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity". It gives nice ovberview of what has been done, not only in string theory but in other approaches as well. > > > As of big bang heory, it's a a domain of astrophysics, and I don't > > feel qualified to discuss it. > > Me neither -- as a scientist. As a philosopher, I will echo Spinoza. A > modification of God, fundamentally no more impressive, no more > miraculous than the explosion of an acorn into a mighty Oak. Just a couple of weeks ago a new theory (based on Strings) came out that seemingly provides a viable alternative to Big Bang cosmology. Not enough expertise to evaluate it but, here it is: http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/02/0506/0506-cyclicuniverse.htm http://feynman.princeton.edu/~steinh/ Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-867-1021998716-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 16:31:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LGVIu22401 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 16:31:18 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-867-1021998716-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 16:31:56 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 16:31:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 37659 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 16:31:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 16:31:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 16:31:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.177] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 16:31:54 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 16:31:50 -0000 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 86 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Sun, 19 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > > > Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 23:13:57 -0000 > > From: punkfloyd.rm > > > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > > Hm. I don't want to dwell too much on this subject, because IMHO, it > > is off-topic for this group, but I'll interejcts a few comments here/ > > I would disagree on the off-topic. If U stands for Universal there can > be no subject off-topic. Yeah, but it'll help if topic has a general appeal. Otherwise email works just as well :) Anyhoo.. > > To say it another way, if we are immersed in the mind of God permeating > the body of God, what could be off-topic? Whatever we decide is off-topic is off-topic and vice versa. If ppl think it's interesting to discuss science in here, I am all for it, because I really like talking about it. > > To a certain extent I agree. These "pointlike particles" behave very > strangely; have weird connections at a distance; pop into and out of > existence. yes, But That's not an artefact of their "pointlikeness". Strings would do the same thing. It's a consequence of the fact that you cannot know position and velocity of something at the same time. Or, more generally, what you know affects what you see. For instance, you can say that particles do not have weird connections at the distance, but what you see does. By looking at one particle you determine what you are going to see when you look at the other. As of the particles that pop in an out of existence, you cannot ever see those. This is just a nice way to keep track of what happens rather than a real phenomena. A bit like counting on an abacus. > The superstring models I have seen are complex geometric > "caves" with a "stick" capable of various degrees of freedom moving, > rotating within this cave such that its ends just fit into and lock in > various slots according to the state of the particle. There is also the > concept of many more dimensions of space than QM is used to. Again, let's separate QM from Standard Model. QM works in any dimensions (in fact, it is works in an infinite-dimensional space to begin with). Standard Model works in our familiar 3+1D space-time. By the way, as I noted in my other posts, there are nice alternatives to string theories that do not require extra dimensions. > > If memory serves, SOME predictions have indeed been verified. These > verifications have greatly encouraged physicists to jump on the > bandwagon. But the core equations cannot be computed right now and this > factor is immensely frustrating. Check out Brian Greene's book. Although > it is popular and readable, he is one of the big guns of string theory > -- and a gifted writer. If that's "Elegant Universe" you are talking about, I have read it. What I think has been verified is some (but not all) of the *starting* assumptions (for instance that string theory is indeed compatible with gravitation theory). AFAIK all possible predictions of string theory are far out reach of current technology. However, this is a rapidly developing field, and who knows what happens next. > > Well, I think I will defer further comment for the moment. I gave away > my copy of Greene's book, so cannot cite details of the deficiencies of > each theory, beyond the obvious one that either theory alone cannot > explain and predict all measurable phenomena. Ok :) Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-868-1022001844-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 17:23:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LHNRE11973 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 17:23:27 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-868-1022001844-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 17:24:05 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 17:24:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 11206 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 17:24:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 17:24:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 17:24:03 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.191]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA00491 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 12:23:59 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020521102023.01a66d08@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:20:23 -0700 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 87 At 04:06 PM 5/21/2002 -0000, you wrote: >--- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > >> > >> > As far as something actually bending, that is a visual metaphor, >> >> Yes. All these maps are metaphors. Unless mathematics is here before >> God, mathematics is a metaphor too. The fact that much of the >physical >> world "follows" mathematical models, sometimes nearly persuades me >that >> mathematics is "discovered" rather than invented. (One can discover >a >> giraffe. Only God can invent one). > >I don't think it's all that surprising, given we tend to alter our >models until they fit what we see. What is surprising is that, unlike >many of our other theories, mathematics is very self-consistent. Yes. >> My present view is that models, mathematical models, are maps, >metaphors >> which have beauty or utility insofar as they are useful: in >explaining, >> understanding, and predicting phenomena. And in doing such with >economy >> of means. These are the terms of argument that I find useful, not >> rightness or wrongness. Newtonian physics is not "wrong"; it is >useful >> within the domain in which it maps to the territory. There happens >to be >> a territory to which it will not map. > >Exactomundo :) There's another point. A physical theory usually >employes one (or more) intuitive models, that help to figure out what >is going on without actually solving the equations. Bent space, >smeared particle, aether are all such models. These can be very >helpful as a way to quickly evaluate the situation and as a guide in >further research. Yes. A model should be understandable, or it does NOT create understanding. >Oftentimes, however, you can have drastically different models that >are 100% equivalent mathematically. Quantum mechanics, for example, >has at least a dozen interpretations. All of which appear to be INSANE MYSTERY. You can plot physics theories on the tone scale. >> The only insanity I see is to confuse the map with the territory. >> All maps are not territory; no map is territory > >Here'll be extravagant and disagree. (This doesn't have a lot to do >with the rest of discussion, tho) >What is map made of? What is the difference between a map and >anything else, say, a rubber duck? > >If we treat something as a map of something else, it becomes a map. >If we treat a rubber duck as a map of London, it will become a >(crude) map of London, as far as you are concerned. The difference is >in your attitude, not in some inherent properties of maps and >territories. Yes. The map can be examined as a thing-in-itself, in which case it is NOT actually a SYMBOL. >> > If we ignore this and pretend that the world is a solid immutable >> > entity and we have nothing to do with it then what we see might >look >> > like weird magic effects. >> >> Well said! >> >> This would be the opposite to Spinoza: all events are a >modification of >> God. > >I am not sure what you are getting at here. > >> >Again I believe QM is way more sane than >> > the old-school Newtonian approach. >> >> QM is neither sane nor insane. The same cannot be said of >scientists. > >And that's why they have invented all kinds of quality-control >procedures (such as verification with experiments). The system is not >perfect but it works most of the time. > >> But isn't there realms which QM doesn't reach? Both the large and >the >> small? What is quantum foam? > >Unfortunately this is a question with no single answer. >Because "quantum" really can stand for 3 things: General Quantum >mechanics, Quantum field theory and the Standard Model of Particle >Physics. > > >General QM is an extremely general framework and it can accomodate >zillions of different applications, from sub-atomic particles, to >superstrings, to lasers, to quantum computers, to neutron stars. QM >is generally thought to be universally applicable. So far it passes >all tests wth flying colors. Note: People disagree on what >QM "actually means" , but that doesn't affect the actual math. The MATH is COMPLETELY severable from the insane complex *MYSTERY* theories. The sane model predicts the same math. >There's also Quantum Field Theory(QFT) - an application of Quantum >Mechanics to fields (that is things that fill entire space). Here >situation is paradoxical: QFT is *known* to be non-consistent, yet it >gives amazingly precise answers (like one part in quadrillionths). >String theory, in part, is an attempt to clean up the >inconsistencies. QFT is known not to be universally applicable, but >the situations where it breaks down are beyond our reach at the >moment. Rado derives plank's constant from his theory, as well as MANY other things, and *SOLVES* MANY of the inconsistencies of insane theory. >Standard Model is the collection of known facts about sub-atomic >particles, such as quarks and electrons. It includes Electroweak >theory and Quantum Chromodynamics, both are types of QFT. Standard >model is ugly and gross, yet it is in a very good agreement with the >experiment (with a couple of notable glitches!). It's an evolving >thing and people hope to make it less ugly. By all indications >Standard Model is not the final word. > >Quantum foam. >There are 2 versions of quantum foam. Both are parts of the effort to >apply quantum mechanics to gravity. Since noone knows how to work out >a full quantum gravity theory, these are very speculative entities >indeed. RADO *EASILY* EXPLAINS GRAVITY! >The original idea (originating in late 19th century, by the way) is >that at a very small scale the space is not at all like the nice >Euclidean space we all know and love. The microscopic structure might >turn out to be very complex indeed, perhaps resembling a higher- >dimensional version of a foam. At the size level of the individual aether particles, their statistically averaged "wave" character does not apply. >The other version of quantum foam is called "spin foams" or >Topological Quantum Field Theory (TQFT). It's a very strange beast. >Basically it represents space as a sort of a network. Or one can say >that every piece of space functions like a quantum computer. When you >allow the computer to change with time, you get a sort of a foam. >This is one of the most developed alternatives to the string theory, >but it too has many hurdles to overcome. Such as being totally non-comprehensible mystery ronsense. >> Brian Greene has written on this. The first third of his book is a >> resume on the history of physics. The last of it an account of >string >> theories. There's lots of info on the web, and the book is >marvellous. > >Yes, I know his works. You might also want to read very nice book by >Lee Smolin called "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity". It gives nice >ovberview of what has been done, not only in string theory but in >other approaches as well. READ RADO! >> > As of big bang heory, it's a a domain of astrophysics, and I don't >> > feel qualified to discuss it. >> >> Me neither -- as a scientist. As a philosopher, I will echo >Spinoza. A >> modification of God, fundamentally no more impressive, no more >> miraculous than the explosion of an acorn into a mighty Oak. > >Just a couple of weeks ago a new theory (based on Strings) came out >that seemingly provides a viable alternative to Big Bang cosmology. >Not enough expertise to evaluate it but, here it is: Rado slaughters big bang theory and predicts red shift as a consequence of "tired light", which others have also done, especially other aetherists. >http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/02/0506/0506-cyclicuniverse.htm >http://feynman.princeton.edu/~steinh/ > >Best, >Oleg Feynman lectures were part of my physics education, and shaped my enquiring attitude. If Feynman was alive today, he'd be celebrating Rado. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-869-1022002327-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 17:31:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LHVTE19708 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 17:31:29 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-869-1022002327-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 17:32:07 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 17:32:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 20626 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 17:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 17:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 17:32:01 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.191]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA01932 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 12:31:59 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020521102820.01a54a80@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:28:20 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] UCP SITE UPDATE Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 88 I did a little work on the UCP web site, renaming to Universal Conscious Practice on the main menu. I also did a light edit on N-Lightenment Now! with name change and some typos cleaned up. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-870-1022003275-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 17:47:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LHlHE04020 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 17:47:17 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-870-1022003275-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 17:47:55 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 17:47:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 68655 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 17:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 17:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 17:47:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.141] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 17:47:53 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020521010145.01a60e20@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:47:52 -0000 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 89 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > Existence of aether is VITAL to explaining action-at-a-distance. > > Without a medium, there can be no waves. > > Even children can understand that! Objections on a few points. 1) Action at distance. This assumes there's distance and there's cause-and-effect sort of a relationship. We cannot ever see causation (except, perhaps, our own), we can only see correlations. Worse yet, the distance concept might be misguided. It is possible to describe light so that it does not propagate at all. It's a very counterintuitive theory (Twistor theory), but it works and it is equivalent to our usual electromagnetic theory. 2)There can be waves without medium. For instance a computer simulation of water waves. There's no medium that carries waves, just pixels on the screen. What does matter for wave-like behaviour is that *Nearby* points behave in a certain correlated way (called Wave equation) 3)Why electromagnetic field itself is not a good enough medium for you? You can say it is EM field that waves, that would be perfectly fine. By definition it has exactly the right properties to carry light and other stuff. The difference between EM field and mechanical aether is ascribed things like density and pressure, while EM fields just has an internal state (called 4-potential),while density, pressure and so on are derived from that. 4)If you have such a problem with action at distance, please explain how neighbouring parts of aether know about each other's existence.There must be something that links them otherwise there won't be any correlated behaviour. > > >> It's back and working better than ever. > >> > >> What is GONE are bent space, telepathic particles, > >> time going backwards, big bangs and other insanity. > > > >What the "bent space" actually means in down-to-earth terms (and here > >is a nice link to UCP , to keep this discussion on-topic) is that to > >diffeernce between HERE and THERE depends on the way you compare. For > >instance you need to carry something form there to here. In general > >the result depends on how you do that. That's all. Classic Physics > >blatantly ignores such subtlety, and thus, as far as I am concernd, > >is more insane than general relativity. > > Classic Physics produced E=MC^2 First of all, Classic (newtonian) physics doesn't even have C. It deems the speed of light neither special nor constant. What are you talking about is Maxwellian Electrodynamics. It is only deemed "classical physics" because it was invented before Einstein. Electrodynamics is 100% compatible with Relativity, in fact Relativity follows from it. On the other hand, Newtonian physics is incompatible with electrodynamics. The Einstein's feat was not inventing e=mc^2 (which was indeed known to Poincare and Lorentz) but applying the insights gained from electrodynamics to mechanics. By the way, do you actually KNOW what explanations were given to E=mc^2 before and after Einstein? And why do you think they are fundamentally different? > > Einstein just stole it and invented an insane explanation for it. > > >As far as something actually bending, that is a visual metaphor, > >notthing more. For instance, General gravity can be reformulated > >without any reference to curved space-time and, vice versa, the good > >old Newtonian gravity can be described as a bent space theory (which > >was done by Elie Cartan in 1930's). > > Rado explains gravity quite simply. > > CHECK IT OUT! Does he give any quantitative predictions? Especially in the places where there are very precise experimental tests (gravitational light bending, orbits of heavenly bodies etc)? > > >Similarly, QM notices that what we know affects what we see. Or that > >division of the world in parts such as here and there, the observer > >and the observed, is largely arbitrary. > > And invents insane explanations for it. It doesn't. That's pretty much the bottom of it. You can try to add explanations but that'd not be QM , that'd be an interpretation of QM. Of course we would need to put this all in a nice mathematical form to be able to make calculations, but that's a technical matter. > > >If we ignore this and pretend that the world is a solid immutable > >entity and we have nothing to do with it then what we see might look > >like weird magic effects. Again I believe QM is way more sane than > >the old-school Newtonian approach. > > But I'm not comparing QM to Newton. > I'm comparing it to Rado's aether theory. My understanding is that Rado attempts to emulate QM effects by using mechanical aether, which is itself a newtonian object (like liquids or solids). He specifically uses the word "Fluid Dynamics". Fluid Dynamics is a special case of Newton's theory. > > >As of big bang heory, it's a a domain of astrophysics, and I don't > >feel qualified to discuss it. > > OK. I'm not either. > > But if you are going to tell me the entire > universe was compressed into zero space, > . . . I'll tell you . . . GO INTO COMEDY! Noone says, "zero space". What *is* said that way back universe had much bigger density than now. Of course it had infinite volume, just as it does now (However, volume of universe is not a very well defined concept to begin with) Since the current theories break down at some ultra-high density values, it's unknown what happened before some point. By the way there are a few alternatives to big bang currently under discussion. I have posted an URL recently. Btw, I am rereading rado's site with a fine comb now and I have a few comments , which I'll post when I am done. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-871-1022004040-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 18:00:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LI03E15509 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 18:00:03 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-871-1022004040-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 18:00:40 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 18:00:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 33006 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 18:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 18:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 18:00:38 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4LHxtj26434; Tue, 21 May 2002 17:59:55 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020521002440.00b7b660@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:59:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] OH FUCK! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 90 On Tue, 21 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 00:24:40 -0700 > Abner writes: > At 01:01 AM 5/20/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >On Sun, 19 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > >> Homer has ACT logged forever, but I > >> don't know how to get it from his server. > > > >Send him fifty bucks for a "Web-server shell account" ? > > Fifty Bucks! > > That's more than I've spent on > food in the last three months! You've GOT to keep things in PERSPECTIVE. Which is more important, connectivity or food? > >I gather that would give you unrestricted access to his news feed. > >I don't know how he works his archives. . . > > Homer is a dead issue. Pretty much dead meat, too. The bugs are eating him alive. And when they go away he gets fried with electric currents. He appears to be in constant restimulation. > >Fifty bucks ;( > > Way out of my ballpark right now. Well then, just wait 'till you are flush again, and then if you haven't found another way to access the old stuff, subscribe under a different handle, long enough to download what you want, and then cancel the account. > >Yeh, that's a bummer. News readers, ALL of them that I ahve seen ALL > >want to do that. They really index the articles by an arbitrary number, > >and that number is, of course, different for each news service. > > Fucked me up on the learning curve! It happens to everyone. It happened to me when I called that borsen.dk server. Nothing would work. But Unix is fairly bulletproof. Thousands of great minds have devote a lot of time and talent for many years to make it that way. I just DELETED the configuration file. It built a new one without complaint. The stuff I had saved was safely out of its reach. The only thing that was lost were the "read" marks. If I had cared about those, I might have been able to repair the config file, but I didn't. > >Well, if you want to know, you could browse the Agent directory (where > >it stores it's files) and see if they are still there. > >That's problemo numero uno. If they ARE there, say thanks to whatever > >deity you may believe in (or not) and move them all to a new directory. > > There's *LOTS* of stuff there . . . I just can't > read it and I don't know if its garbage or not. > > >Then start fresh and see if you can get a new list from Homer's free ACT > >news server. That would be my strategy. > > Yes. I'm looking for a reliable news server to start with. OK > >It sounds like Agent is easily confused and due to the above, that is > >understandable. I would guess that it is trying to make requests to one > >news server based on lists from another news server, and that just > >doesn't work. > > OH! This could be vital info! > > Maybe teranews.com is OK? You could try again. One thing you have to watch for is that one of the ways the config file can trash ist to mark all the articles "READ". Then you can't see them, even though they are really there. See if you can find out how to mark all the articles "UNREAD". > It appeared to me that MOST of the > articles on homer's server were NOT > at teranews. DID I FUCK UP THERE? previous > >> >> As it stands today, I have > >> >> ZERO news access, and > >> >> NO access to my last few > >> >> years of work threaded. > >> >> > >> >> I don't know if it's totally gone, > >> >> or I just can't see it right now. > > > >It MIGHT be able to build a new list from the files in a new directory > >IF the old list (which doesn't work anymore) is removed or re-named. > >The point is to minimise confusion by separating old files from new > >ones. And start fresh with a new default directory. > > Yes. I understand that now. > I was a total idiot and didn't > back up because I thought > I had a recent backup. You may still be OK. > >Worry about that later -- after you get up and running again with > >current news. > > Yes! That is the correct order of importances. > > >You might have a winmodem. ;( > >They don't work with Linux. > >Either get a real modem, external is best, or recently there ARE > >attempts to make free software to run winmodems on Linux. > >But you don't have time to fuck around with that. Even if it works it > >will be a pain, and you will spend much too much time on it. > > Already! > > >The mouse is an Xwindow problem. Somehow Xwindow doen't have the right > >info. I've never heard of a mouse that can't be configured. At the worst > >case you might need to get a new mouse for 20 bucks that is PS2 or MS > >compatible. But again I haven't seen a mouse that won't work on Lin. > > I don't even know what Xwindow is. Xwindow is the graphics program that Linux runs to give you all those pretty pictures so you can mouse around clicking on what you want to do instead of entering commands on a command line a la DOS. > My Logitech trackball is not listed in my Mandrake Linux install. > The mouse part works ok now, but no scroll wheel. You might try a google search at: www.google.com/linux with the search terms: logitech linux if you don't find anything you can assume that it will work if you can tell the configuration the proper TYPE of mouse. There are only a few types to cover dozens of brands. If you DO find something, it may be of some use. > >> >> I WANT IT TO THREAD THE ARTICLES! > >> >> An unthreaded news reader has NO clue! > >> > >> >Tin will thread or un-thread the articles. I believe the articles are > >> >stored in the order they are received. Then the software scans the > >> >headers and makes an index. Using the index information only it can > >> >present the articles to the user in whatever arrangement he requires. > >> > >> Good. I think Homer uses Tin, but > >> his articles never come up threaded. > > > >???? > > I assumed he would thread > if the software let him. > Silly assumption. ???? again. We are not connecting here. Please re-read the previous paragraph. The news server does NOT thread articles. I believe they are stored on the server in the order received, and served that way to the client as default. The newsREADER (client) is responsible for arranging (threading) the articles. > It's WONDERFUL for posting, threading, > finding articles, and lots of other stuff. I > ONLY hate it when it loses all my data! Understood. I have another friend who says he only hates his wife when she's out fucking the neighborhood, otherwise she's great. > >Maybe someone has written a conversion program. But you will be better > >off in the long run to get them in open format. > > Yes! NO MORE COMPRESSED FILES FOR ME! > > It's *INSANE* to worry about compression > when I have 60 gigs on just one hard drive. Yes, of course. The days of 40 MB hard disks are long gone. If you want to save transfer time you can zip them. But that's not a danger since you still have the unaltered original. I regard it as dangerous to backup with zip. one bad bit may make them unrecoverable. > Thanks for writing! > > I appreciate your perspective! It's mutual! > KP abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000. Your opinion is very important to us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-872-1022011444-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 20:03:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LK3RQ03033 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 20:03:27 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-872-1022011444-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 20:04:05 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 20:04:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 5379 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 20:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 20:04:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 20:04:03 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4LK3J802337; Tue, 21 May 2002 20:03:19 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020521102023.01a66d08@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 20:03:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: RE::Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 91 On Tue, 21 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:20:23 -0700 > From: Net Prophet > At 04:06 PM 5/21/2002 -0000, you wrote: > >--- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > >> > > >> > As far as something actually bending, that is a visual metaphor, > >> > >> Yes. All these maps are metaphors. Unless mathematics is here before > >> God, mathematics is a metaphor too. The fact that much of the > >physical > >> world "follows" mathematical models, sometimes nearly persuades me > >that > >> mathematics is "discovered" rather than invented. (One can discover > >a > >> giraffe. Only God can invent one). > > > >I don't think it's all that surprising, given we tend to alter our > >models until they fit what we see. What is surprising is that, unlike > >many of our other theories, mathematics is very self-consistent. > > Yes. > > >> My present view is that models, mathematical models, are maps, > >metaphors > >> which have beauty or utility insofar as they are useful: in > >explaining, > >> understanding, and predicting phenomena. And in doing such with > >economy > >> of means. These are the terms of argument that I find useful, not > >> rightness or wrongness. Newtonian physics is not "wrong"; it is > >useful > >> within the domain in which it maps to the territory. There happens > >to be > >> a territory to which it will not map. > > > >Exactomundo :) There's another point. A physical theory usually > >employes one (or more) intuitive models, that help to figure out what > >is going on without actually solving the equations. Bent space, > >smeared particle, aether are all such models. These can be very > >helpful as a way to quickly evaluate the situation and as a guide in > >further research. > > Yes. > > A model should be understandable, > or it does NOT create understanding. > > >Oftentimes, however, you can have drastically different models that > >are 100% equivalent mathematically. Quantum mechanics, for example, > >has at least a dozen interpretations. > > All of which appear to be INSANE MYSTERY. > > You can plot physics theories on the tone scale. > > >> The only insanity I see is to confuse the map with the territory. > >> All maps are not territory; no map is territory > > > >Here'll be extravagant and disagree. (This doesn't have a lot to do > >with the rest of discussion, tho) > >What is map made of? What is the difference between a map and > >anything else, say, a rubber duck? > > > >If we treat something as a map of something else, it becomes a map. > >If we treat a rubber duck as a map of London, it will become a > >(crude) map of London, as far as you are concerned. The difference is > >in your attitude, not in some inherent properties of maps and > >territories. > Yes. Well, would you rather use yr rubber duck to navigate London, or my handy-dandy Street Map of London, which I will sell you for the paltry price of one pound? Why? For my own use I would prefer the handy-dandy, because I can easily find a correspondence between points on the map and points of what I am pleased to call the territory. One inch on the map equals one-half mile of territory. If the handy-dandy says I am six blocks from Bond St. and I walk the six blocks, lo and behold, there is a street sign that says Bond St. With the rubber ducky you might eventually arrive at Bond St., but if so it would not be by virtue of a map, but through some other means; blind luck, perhaps, or interrogating a passer-by, or flagging down a taxi. > The map can be examined as a thing-in-itself, > in which case it is NOT actually a SYMBOL. > > >> > If we ignore this and pretend that the world is a solid immutable > >> > entity and we have nothing to do with it then what we see might > >look > >> > like weird magic effects. > >> > >> Well said! > >> > >> This would be the opposite to Spinoza: all events are a > >modification of > >> God. > > > >I am not sure what you are getting at here. Sorry, I jumped levels here. I was pointing to the spiritual effects certain models produce. The "we have nothing to do with it" model, in the social and psychological sphere is poisonous. It puts its believers at effect, at victim, at irresponsible. Spinoza says whatever happens is Providence. He criticizes scripture (or rather interpretations of scripture) as wrong, but this too is the mind of God. He, Spinoza, is at Cause, not effect -- because all effects are apprehended by Spinoza as proceeding from God. So I guess what I am getting at is the models people use, are trained up in or collect have tremendous effect on the quality of their life. So a second criticism of rubber ducky as model, besides its lack of point-to-point correspondence, is its triviality. ------------ (QM and Rado discussion snipped) > >> Brian Greene has written on this. The first third of his book is a > >> resume on the history of physics. The last of it an account of > >string > >> theories. There's lots of info on the web, and the book is > >marvellous. > > > >Yes, I know his works. You might also want to read very nice book by > >Lee Smolin called "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity". It gives nice > >ovberview of what has been done, not only in string theory but in > >other approaches as well. > > READ RADO! > > >> > As of big bang heory, it's a a domain of astrophysics, and I don't > >> > feel qualified to discuss it. > >> > >> Me neither -- as a scientist. As a philosopher, I will echo > >Spinoza. A > >> modification of God, fundamentally no more impressive, no more > >> miraculous than the explosion of an acorn into a mighty Oak. > > > >Just a couple of weeks ago a new theory (based on Strings) came out > >that seemingly provides a viable alternative to Big Bang cosmology. > >Not enough expertise to evaluate it but, here it is: > > Rado slaughters big bang theory and predicts > red shift as a consequence of "tired light", which > others have also done, especially other aetherists. > > >http://www.princeton.edu/pr/pwb/02/0506/0506-cyclicuniverse.htm > >http://feynman.princeton.edu/~steinh/ These are great links! Thanks! > >Best, > >Oleg > > Feynman lectures were part > of my physics education, and > shaped my enquiring attitude. > > If Feynman was alive today, > he'd be celebrating Rado. > > > KP abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-873-1022019885-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 22:24:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LMO7V20955 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 22:24:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-873-1022019885-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 22:24:45 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 22:24:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 46575 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 22:24:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 22:24:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 22:24:43 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.143] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 22:24:43 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020521102023.01a66d08@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:24:43 -0000 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 92 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > Yes. > > A model should be understandable, > or it does NOT create understanding. Which, in turn, depends on what one is already familar with. Rado is familiar with gases, I am much more familiar with computers than with gases, so I prefer models that are similar to computers (such as TQFT I mentioned) > > >Oftentimes, however, you can have drastically different models that > >are 100% equivalent mathematically. Quantum mechanics, for example, > >has at least a dozen interpretations. > > All of which appear to be INSANE MYSTERY. Mystery , perhaps, to people who are unfamiliar with them, but pretty clear to people who work with them. Counterintuitive, yes, but behavior of atoms *is* different from behavior of humans-scale objects. Are you familiar with any of them? > > You can plot physics theories on the tone scale. That'd hightly dependent on the tone of the person who does the plotting, as well as the way the theory was explained to him. For instance, the same Newton's theory can be explained as "F=ma", the way Newton himself did, or through the "Principle of Least action" ala Lagrange and Hamilton. Completely different attitudes, yet it's the exactly same theory. > > Yes. > > The map can be examined as a thing-in-itself, > in which case it is NOT actually a SYMBOL. Glad you underfstand that, because some people don't =) > The MATH is COMPLETELY severable from > the insane complex *MYSTERY* theories. > > The sane model predicts the same math. The advantage of sanity is that it produces workable results where insanity doesn't. That's how you tell them apart. If 2 models produce exactly the same math then they are observationally 100% indistinguishable and the choice between them is a matter of taste, not sanity. For instance I have mentioned Newtonian and Hamiltonian formulation of classical mechanics. If you take a real world situation and apply either approach to it, you'll get exactly same results. However, there are situations where each approach is easier to deal with. Newton's is easier when you ask "What the thing is going to do next?", Lagrange's is easier when you ask "What is the long-term behaviour of the system?" Additionally, Lagrange's approach is way more general. It is easily applicable to systems that are not strictly mechanical (such as electromagnetic fields). > > >There's also Quantum Field Theory(QFT) - an application of Quantum > >Mechanics to fields (that is things that fill entire space). Here > >situation is paradoxical: QFT is *known* to be non-consistent, yet it > >gives amazingly precise answers (like one part in quadrillionths). > >String theory, in part, is an attempt to clean up the > >inconsistencies. QFT is known not to be universally applicable, but > >the situations where it breaks down are beyond our reach at the > >moment. > > Rado derives plank's constant from his theory, > as well as MANY other things, and *SOLVES* > MANY of the inconsistencies of insane theory. Derivation of h is not really a big deal because it is dependent on you choice of units. You can even make it 1, which is what people often do to save typing. What really matters is dimensionless constants (such as ratio of circumference of circle to its diameter, i.e Pi) One such famous example is a so-called fine structure constant, which basically describes how strong electrical charges interacts with electrical field. It's around 1/137 . If we can explain why it is that number and not some other, we are getting somewhere. > > >Standard Model is the collection of known facts about sub-atomic > >particles, such as quarks and electrons. It includes Electroweak > >theory and Quantum Chromodynamics, both are types of QFT. Standard > >model is ugly and gross, yet it is in a very good agreement with the > >experiment (with a couple of notable glitches!). It's an evolving > >thing and people hope to make it less ugly. By all indications > >Standard Model is not the final word. > > > >Quantum foam. > >There are 2 versions of quantum foam. Both are parts of the effort to > >apply quantum mechanics to gravity. Since noone knows how to work out > >a full quantum gravity theory, these are very speculative entities > >indeed. > > RADO *EASILY* EXPLAINS GRAVITY! > > >The original idea (originating in late 19th century, by the way) is > >that at a very small scale the space is not at all like the nice > >Euclidean space we all know and love. The microscopic structure might > >turn out to be very complex indeed, perhaps resembling a higher- > >dimensional version of a foam. > > At the size level of the individual aether particles, their > statistically averaged "wave" character does not apply. But it does apply to real particles. See Feynman lecture on physics vol.3. By now technology has advanced enough to use quantum wave properties of individual particles. Recently it has been used even to perform simple computations. If technology keeps advancing as fast as it does in a few years we'll have a device that can kick ass of any modern supercomputer. Also there are certain experiments that put huge problems in front of any theories that try to explain quantum effects as a consequence of internal structure of particles and perhaps some waves that accompany them. (which, it seems Rado does) For instance, you can find out if someone is eavesdropping on your fiber-optic line even if the eavesdropper does not see any signal come through. Also there's the famous Bell inequality (verified by quite a few experiments), where quantum correlations are created simultaneously in 2 separated places (i think it's up to a mile now). Moreover the tests are designed in such a devilishly clever way that it distinguishes between *any* side-effect of a complex structure of the particles (with aether ripples around them or anything) and a true non-local quantum correlation. It takes about a page of math to prove that it indeed works that way, but it's nothing but high-school vector algebra and trigonometry. It's one of the most beautiful pieces of reasoning out there. > > >The other version of quantum foam is called "spin foams" or > >Topological Quantum Field Theory (TQFT). It's a very strange beast. > >Basically it represents space as a sort of a network. Or one can say > >that every piece of space functions like a quantum computer. When you > >allow the computer to change with time, you get a sort of a foam. > >This is one of the most developed alternatives to the string theory, > >but it too has many hurdles to overcome. > > Such as being totally non-comprehensible mystery ronsense. Comprehensible to me, since I have studied some material on quantum computing. In fact I find it absolutely amazing that gravity behaves exactly like a quantum computer. It'd be a shame if that turns out to be just a fluke. The main problems with that approach (AFAIK) is to find general rules that tell us how this networks correspond to our high-level world of space, time, matter and energy. So far only a few special cases has been investigated. This is in part because we don't have yet a good theory and practical knowledge of quantum computing, at least nothing like the usual computer science with its 50+ years of experience. And our actual working quantum computers have only 1 quantum byte of memory :( But I am sure that'd change soon enough. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-874-1022022489-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 21 23:07:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.84]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4LN7VL26948 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 23:07:31 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-874-1022022489-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 23:08:09 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 21 May 2002 23:08:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 36768 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 23:08:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 May 2002 23:08:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.85) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 May 2002 23:08:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.159] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 May 2002 23:08:07 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:08:05 -0000 Subject: RE::Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 93 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > Well, would you rather use yr rubber duck to navigate London, or my > handy-dandy Street Map of London, which I will sell you for the paltry > price of one pound? > You just don't know how to read rubber ducks. > Why? Because the art is almost lost, being much much harder than reading ordinary maps. But seriously, folks, maps are simply objects that similar enough to the object you want to find out about, as to be a suitable substitute. You use maps when when you are not able to look at the thing it depicts.Note the similarity to below 0 tone scale. Above 0 you can still use them for aesthetic purposes (like artsy paintings), but you don't regard them as maps. > > For my own use I would prefer the handy-dandy, because I can easily find > a correspondence between points on the map and points of what I am > pleased to call the territory. One inch on the map equals one-half mile > of territory. If the handy-dandy says I am six blocks from Bond St. and > I walk the six blocks, lo and behold, there is a street sign that says > Bond St. No, it's the other way around. Actually London is a map of the handy- dandy piece of paper in your hands. If you see that six-blocks down the road is a street sign saying "Bond St.", you can mark off six- blocks on that piece of paper, lo and behold, there's a white strip with "Bond St." printed on it. Just by walking around you can easily find any colored block on that paper you are holding! amazing isn't it? :) > > With the rubber ducky you might eventually arrive at Bond St., but if so > it would not be by virtue of a map, but through some other means; blind > luck, perhaps, or interrogating a passer-by, or flagging down a taxi. > Didn't they tell you "As above, so is below" an dthat macrocosm is reflected in microcosm? If you look at the ducky hard enough you can clearly distinguish Big Ben an driver Thames :) > > >> This would be the opposite to Spinoza: all events are a > > >modification of > > >> God. > > > > > >I am not sure what you are getting at here. > > Sorry, I jumped levels here. I was pointing to the spiritual effects > certain models produce. The "we have nothing to do with it" model, in > the social and psychological sphere is poisonous. It puts its believers > at effect, at victim, at irresponsible. By that model your feeling of responsibility and free will is just a consequence of mechanical process in your brain or whatever. It's all predetermined by the Immutable Laws. Don't like this model at all. But that is also predetermined. > > Spinoza says whatever happens is Providence. He criticizes scripture (or > rather interpretations of scripture) as wrong, but this too is the mind > of God. He, Spinoza, is at Cause, not effect -- because all effects are > apprehended by Spinoza as proceeding from God. > > So I guess what I am getting at is the models people use, are trained up > in or collect have tremendous effect on the quality of their life. > > So a second criticism of rubber ducky as model, besides its lack of > point-to-point correspondence, is its triviality. Stretch the ducky to cover the entire city and then bend it to fit all buildings. If we forget about physical limitations for a moment, it can be done. Here's your correspondence. The point is that it is not what things *are* that makes them maps, but what *you* have to *do* with them to make them fit each other. People started to realize this about 50 years ago, but it didn't quite reach the mainstream yet. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-875-1022026174-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 00:08:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4M08uI15619 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 00:08:56 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-875-1022026174-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 00:09:34 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 00:09:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 79406 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 00:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 00:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 00:09:32 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4M08mp03833; Wed, 22 May 2002 00:08:48 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 00:08:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 94 On Tue, 21 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:24:43 -0000 > From: punkfloyd.rm [KP:] > > Such as being totally non-comprehensible mystery ronsense. > > Comprehensible to me, since I have studied some material on quantum > computing. In fact I find it absolutely amazing that gravity behaves > exactly like a quantum computer. It'd be a shame if that turns out to > be just a fluke. I think it was last week or two that it was announced that, yes, gravity operates in discrete non-continuous jumps. Oh dear, my childhood fantasy of life as a stop-motion animation, has gathered some believers. . . > The main problems with that approach (AFAIK) is to find general rules > that tell us how this networks correspond to our high-level world of > space, time, matter and energy. So far only a few special cases has > been investigated. This is in part because we don't have yet a good > theory and practical knowledge of quantum computing, at least nothing > like the usual computer science with its 50+ years of experience. And > our actual working quantum computers have only 1 quantum byte of > memory :( But I am sure that'd change soon enough. Memory!? Memory!? Who needs any stinkin memory? I can clone a trillion agents to search the universe. First one to find Xenu stick up yer hand! > Best, > Oleg Most exciting. Best, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-876-1022037402-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 03:16:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4M3G4h01069 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 03:16:04 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-876-1022037402-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 03:16:42 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 03:16:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 5750 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 03:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 03:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 03:16:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.191] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 03:16:40 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.206.110 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 03:16:38 -0000 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 95 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Tue, 21 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 22:24:43 -0000 > > From: punkfloyd.rm > > [KP:] > > > Such as being totally non-comprehensible mystery ronsense. > > > > Comprehensible to me, since I have studied some material on quantum > > computing. In fact I find it absolutely amazing that gravity behaves > > exactly like a quantum computer. It'd be a shame if that turns out to > > be just a fluke. > > I think it was last week or two that it was announced that, yes, gravity > operates in discrete non-continuous jumps. Where did you hear that? I haven't seen it on any newsgroups or newssites that I read. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-877-1022046961-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 05:55:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.104]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4M5tNJ21741 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 05:55:23 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-877-1022046961-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 05:56:01 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 05:56:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 18330 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 05:56:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 05:56:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 05:56:00 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4M5tG904378; Wed, 22 May 2002 05:55:16 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: Content-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 05:55:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [UCP-List] Gravity leaps into quantum world (fwd) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 97 >From olegd@strategyfirst.com Wed May 22 05:47:49 2002 Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 03:16:38 -0000 From: punkfloyd.rm Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Tue, 21 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > I think it was last week or two that it was announced that, yes, gravity > operates in discrete non-continuous jumps. Where did you hear that? I haven't seen it on any newsgroups or newssites that I read. Best, Oleg ---------------------- Well, here it is (if the attachment comes through) Best, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-878-1022047498-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 06:04:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4M64JJ27383 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 06:04:19 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-878-1022047498-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 06:04:58 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 06:04:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 49743 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 06:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 06:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 06:04:57 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4M64DA21679; Wed, 22 May 2002 06:04:13 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 06:04:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: 2::::[UCP-List] Gravity leaps into quantum world (fwd) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4M64JJ27383 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 98 2nd try. The attachment got stripped. ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From olegd@strategyfirst.com Wed May 22 05:47:49 2002 Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 03:16:38 -0000 From: punkfloyd.rm Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Tue, 21 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > I think it was last week or two that it was announced that, yes, gravity > operates in discrete non-continuous jumps. Where did you hear that? I haven't seen it on any newsgroups or newssites that I read. Best, Oleg ---------------------- Well, here it is (if the attachment comes through) Best, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org [1][nsu;pos=left;sz=120x60] [spacer_white.gif] [2][nsu;pos=top;abr=!NN2;sz=468 x60;ord=07893195?] [spacer_trans.gif] [3]nature science update updated at midnight GMT [spacer_white.gif] search nature science update ____________________ go [4]advanced search [spacer_white.gif] news [5]nature home [spacer_trans.gif] content [spacer_trans.gif] [6]news [7]features [8]by subject [9]conferences [spacer_trans.gif] services [spacer_trans.gif] [10]send to a friend [11]printable version [12]ealert [13]search [14]help [15]feedback [spacer_trans.gif] information [spacer_trans.gif] [spacer_trans.gif] [16]about the site [17]about us [spacer_trans.gif] supported by [18]amersham [spacer_trans.gif] Gravity leaps into quantum world Researchers finally measure the subtle quantum effects of fourth fundamental force. 17 January 2002 [19]TOM CLARKE [apple_160.jpg] Particles don't fall smoothly under gravity, they lurch. © Pictor/Photodisc Far from falling smoothly, objects moving under gravity do so in lurching, quantum leaps, a French experiment has revealed^[20]1. The finding confirms that gravity, like the Universe's three other fundamental forces, can have a quantum effect. Particles, such as electrons confined to their orbital shells around the nucleus of an atom, are restricted by the rules of quantum mechanics. To move from one position to another, they must jump to the next quantum state. Theoretically, this rule holds for all matter under the influence of nature's four fundamental forces: electromagnetism, weak and strong nuclear force and gravity. But gravity, especially at small scales, is a very feeble force, making it extremely difficult to measure its quantum effects. There's no point in looking for quantum behaviour in everyday objects. It is occurring, but the larger things become, the more subtle are the quantum effects. Even small molecules are practically immune to the weird ways of the quantum world. Valery Nesvizhevsky and his colleagues studied ultracold neutrons (UCNs) at the Laue-Langevin Institute in Grenoble, France. These very slow-moving, uncharged particles normally team up with protons to form the nucleus of an atom. The team isolated the neutrons from the effects of the other three forces in a specially designed detector. By following the progress of hundreds of UCNs falling from the top of the detector to the bottom, the team found that the particles exist only at certain heights. "They do not move continuously, but rather jump from one height to another as quantum theory predicts," says Nesvizhevsky. That someone has measured quantum leaps has physicists wide-eyed. "The effects are so small it is remarkable that they can actually observe them," says Thomas Bowles, a particle physicist at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. Trick questions This satisfying trick may also have profound implications for the future of physics. "Right now, we don't have a theory of how gravity is created," says Bowles. If refined, he says, apparatus like Nesvizhevsky's could explain how gravity behaves in the quantum world - and perhaps where it comes from. We don't have a theory of how gravity is created Thomas Bowles, Los Alamos National Laboratory "If you're searching for something in fundamental physics, this is a very clean system," agrees Nesvizhevsky. It should allow researchers to pick apart some of the niggling questions about the fundamental properties of matter. It might even be possible, suggests Bowles, to work out why Einstein's theory of general relativity - which explains gravity and large things, such as galaxies and the Universe - doesn't tally with quantum mechanics, the physicist's handbook of the very small. [spacer_trans.gif] [spacer_trans.gif] References 1. Nesvizhevsky, V. V. et al. Quantum states of neutrons in the Earth's gravitational field. [21]Nature, 415, 297 - 299, (2002). © Nature News Service / Macmillan Magazines Ltd 2002 related stories [spacer_trans.gif] o [22]Exorcising Einstein's spooks 29 November 2001 [spacer_trans.gif] o [23]Sun to help try relative values? 30 March 2001 [spacer_trans.gif] o [24]What's the matter with gravity? 18 August 2000 [spacer_trans.gif] o [25]Where did all the gravity go? 1 November 1999 [spacer_trans.gif] o [26]Measuring gravity with an atomic fountain [spacer_trans.gif] links out [spacer_trans.gif] o [27]Exploring gravity [spacer_trans.gif] [spacer_trans.gif] more news [spacer_trans.gif] o [28]Oldest fossil footprints on land 30 April 2002 [spacer_trans.gif] o [29]Early birds have big eyes 30 April 2002 [spacer_trans.gif] o [30]Stars are promiscuous 29 April 2002 [spacer_trans.gif] [31][question1.gif] [spacer_trans.gif] References Visible links 1. http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/nsu.nature.com/nsu;pos=left;sz=120x60 2. http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/nsu.nature.com/nsu;pos=top;abr=!NN2;sz=468x60;ord=07893195? 3. http://www.nature.com/ 4. http://www.nature.com/nsu/search.html 5. http://www.nature.com/nsu/index.html 6. http://www.nature.com/nsu/news.html 7. http://www.nature.com/nsu/features.html 8. http://www.nature.com/nsu/categories/bysubject.html 9. http://www.nature.com/nsu/conferences/conferences.html 10. javascript:void(0); 11. http://www.nature.com/nsu/nsu_pf/020114/020114-8.html 12. http://www.nature.com/nsu/ealert/ealert.html 13. http://www.nature.com/nsu/search.html 14. http://www.nature.com/help 15. http://www.nature.com/nsu/feedback/index.html 16. http://www.nature.com/nsu/profiles/aboutsite.html 17. http://www.nature.com/nsu/profiles/aboutus.html 18. http://www.apbiotech.com/ 19. http://www.nature.com/nsu/profiles/aboutus.html#clarke 20. file://localhost/arpa/ag/a/abner/tmp.html#1 21. http://www.nature.com/doifinder/10.1038/415297a 22. http://www.nature.com/nsu/011129/011129-15.html 23. http://www.nature.com/nsu/010404/010404-2.html 24. http://www.nature.com/nsu/000824/000824-1.html 25. http://www.nature.com/nsu/991104/991104-4.html 26. http://www.nature.com/nsu/990826/990826-1.html 27. http://www.curtin.edu.au/curtin/dept/phys-sci/gravity/index2.htm 28. http://www.nature.com/nsu/020429/020429-2.html 29. http://www.nature.com/nsu/020429/020429-3.html 30. http://www.nature.com/nsu/020429/020429-1.html 31. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=8559599265 Hidden links: 32. http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/nsu.nature.com/nsu;pos=left;sz=120x60 :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-879-1022082169-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 15:42:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MFgBR13848 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 15:42:11 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-879-1022082169-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 15:42:50 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 15:42:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 3294 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 15:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 15:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 15:42:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.169] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 15:42:48 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:42:48 -0000 Subject: Re: 2::::[UCP-List] Gravity leaps into quantum world (fwd) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 101 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > 2nd try. The attachment got stripped. > Thanks for the article! Turns out I did see it before and there has been an extensive discussion of it on usenet. So I can give some info on what is it about. The cool part of the experiment is that these guys managed to control neutrons with such an immense precision. That's very neat. However it is not a demonstration of quantum gravity, it is only a demonstration of quantum nature of neutrons. The situation is "semi- classical" - the neutrons behave as quantum particle-waves, while gravity behaves as a usual Newtonian force (not quantized or anything). When any wave is affected by a force it can form a "standing wave". This phenomenon is responsible for the sound of our own voice. Here we see neutrons forming standing waves under the influence of gravity. It's a neat demonstration of the principle but doesn't say anything about gravity. The school formula: Gravity Force = mass * gravity_acceleration (9.8 m/sec^2) is quite sufficient to explain the effect. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-880-1022085314-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 16:34:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MGYZP03303 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 16:34:35 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-880-1022085314-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 16:35:14 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 16:35:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 2912 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 16:35:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 16:35:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 16:35:13 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4MGYS620672; Wed, 22 May 2002 16:34:28 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:34:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: 2::::[UCP-List] Gravity leaps into quantum world (fwd) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 102 On Wed, 22 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 15:42:48 -0000 > From: punkfloyd.rm > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > 2nd try. The attachment got stripped. > > > > Thanks for the article! > > Turns out I did see it before and there has been an extensive > discussion of it on usenet. So I can give some info on what is it > about. > > The cool part of the experiment is that these guys managed to > control neutrons with such an immense precision. That's very neat. > However it is not a demonstration of quantum gravity, it is only a > demonstration of quantum nature of neutrons. Hmmmm. And when an apple falls off a tree, this demonstrates nothing about the nature of gravity, but rather of the nature of apples? ;) I usually understand "gravity" as merely the attraction between bodies proportional to their mass and distance. The concept of "gravity" is no more necessary than the concept of "aether" - although it may be a linguistic convenience. So, is it possible to explain the result of this experiment as the quantum nature of the neutrons includes a tendency to change mass or distance? Perhaps your attribution of this phenomena is due to your intuition that it's inconceivable to imagine "gravity" to change its mass or location? >The situation is "semi- > classical" - the neutrons behave as quantum particle-waves, while > gravity behaves as a usual Newtonian force (not quantized or > anything). When any wave is affected by a force it can form > a "standing wave". This phenomenon is responsible for the sound of > our own voice. Here we see neutrons forming standing waves under the > influence of gravity. >It's a neat demonstration of the principle but > doesn't say anything about gravity. It seems to require that "gravity" has a wave nature, no? > The school formula: > Gravity Force = mass * gravity_acceleration (9.8 m/sec^2) > > is quite sufficient to explain the effect. > > Best, > Oleg Thanks for your comments, Oleg. I grope toward understanding. . . ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-881-1022085377-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 16:35:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MGZdP04007 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 16:35:39 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-881-1022085377-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 16:36:18 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 16:36:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 39574 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 16:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 16:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 16:36:15 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4MGZUu24526; Wed, 22 May 2002 16:35:30 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 16:35:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [UCP-List] Crab Nebula - Neutron Star Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 103 I snarfed a couple pages and couple x-ray images, a diagram, and an animation and put them on my web site, for the time being. Some of the links are broken - i.e. relative rather than absolute, however some important ones do work - and will take you to more information. All this was motivated by looking at Rado's diagram. It reminded me of the flows in this neutron star, which I am still not sure about. Is there a bi-directional flow along the axis? http://sdf.lonestar.org/~abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-882-1022085709-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 16:41:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MGfBP09720 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 16:41:11 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-882-1022085709-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 16:41:50 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 16:41:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 37881 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 16:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 16:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 16:41:48 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.219]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA12564 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 11:41:46 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020522093808.00bf16d0@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 09:38:08 -0700 Subject: Re: 2::::[UCP-List] Gravity leaps into quantum world (fwd) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 104 At 03:42 PM 5/22/2002 -0000, you wrote: >--- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: >> 2nd try. The attachment got stripped. >> > >Thanks for the article! > >Turns out I did see it before and there has been an extensive >discussion of it on usenet. So I can give some info on what is it >about. > >The cool part of the experiment is that these guys managed to >control neutrons with such an immense precision. That's very neat. >However it is not a demonstration of quantum gravity, it is only a >demonstration of quantum nature of neutrons. The situation is "semi- >classical" - the neutrons behave as quantum particle-waves, while >gravity behaves as a usual Newtonian force (not quantized or >anything). When any wave is affected by a force it can form >a "standing wave". This phenomenon is responsible for the sound of >our own voice. Here we see neutrons forming standing waves under the >influence of gravity. It's a neat demonstration of the principle but >doesn't say anything about gravity. The school formula: > >Gravity Force = mass * gravity_acceleration (9.8 m/sec^2) > >is quite sufficient to explain the effect. > >Best, >Oleg Rado EASILY explains gravity with no disassociated quantum nonsense. Given ONLY the existence of the ideal gas aether, he stunningly demonstrates the evolution of physics. The ronsense theories are completely unnecessary. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-883-1022089169-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 17:38:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MHcpi04395 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 17:38:51 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-883-1022089169-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 17:39:30 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 17:39:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 54433 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 17:39:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 17:39:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 17:39:27 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4MHchY27962; Wed, 22 May 2002 17:38:43 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:38:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: re:RE::Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 105 On Tue, 21 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 23:08:05 -0000 > From: punkfloyd.rm > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > > Well, would you rather use yr rubber duck to navigate London, or my > > handy-dandy Street Map of London, which I will sell you for the > paltry > > price of one pound? > > > > You just don't know how to read rubber ducks. > > > Why? > > Because the art is almost lost, being much much harder than reading > ordinary maps. > > But seriously, folks, maps are simply objects that similar enough to > the object you want to find out about, as to be a suitable > substitute. > You use maps when when you are not able to look at the thing it > depicts.Note the similarity to below 0 tone scale. Above 0 you can > still use them for aesthetic purposes (like artsy paintings), but you > don't regard them as maps. > > > > > For my own use I would prefer the handy-dandy, because I can easily > find > > a correspondence between points on the map and points of what I am > > pleased to call the territory. One inch on the map equals one-half > mile > > of territory. If the handy-dandy says I am six blocks from Bond St. > and > > I walk the six blocks, lo and behold, there is a street sign that > says > > Bond St. > > No, it's the other way around. Actually London is a map of the handy- > dandy piece of paper in your hands. If you see that six-blocks down > the road is a street sign saying "Bond St.", you can mark off six- > blocks on that piece of paper, lo and behold, there's a white strip > with "Bond St." printed on it. Just by walking around you can easily > find any colored block on that paper you are holding! amazing isn't > it? :) > > > > > With the rubber ducky you might eventually arrive at Bond St., but > if so > > it would not be by virtue of a map, but through some other means; > blind > > luck, perhaps, or interrogating a passer-by, or flagging down a > taxi. > > > Didn't they tell you "As above, so is below" an dthat macrocosm is > reflected in microcosm? If you look at the ducky hard enough you can > clearly distinguish Big Ben an driver Thames :) > > > > > >> This would be the opposite to Spinoza: all events are a > > > >modification of > > > >> God. > > > > > > > >I am not sure what you are getting at here. > > > > Sorry, I jumped levels here. I was pointing to the spiritual effects > > certain models produce. The "we have nothing to do with it" model, > in > > the social and psychological sphere is poisonous. It puts its > believers > > at effect, at victim, at irresponsible. > > By that model your feeling of responsibility and free will is just a > consequence of mechanical process in your brain or whatever. It's all > predetermined by the Immutable Laws. > > Don't like this model at all. But that is also predetermined. > > > > > Spinoza says whatever happens is Providence. He criticizes > scripture (or > > rather interpretations of scripture) as wrong, but this too is the > mind > > of God. He, Spinoza, is at Cause, not effect -- because all effects > are > > apprehended by Spinoza as proceeding from God. > > > > So I guess what I am getting at is the models people use, are > trained up > > in or collect have tremendous effect on the quality of their life. And I don't get, in Spinoza, that *anything* is predetermined. Except of course what has "already" been determined, which would be the Laws of Nature. But man's will is free. (I don't recall at the moment how, or if, Spinoza explains it). For me it's an article of faith; not even that, a postulate. I *claim* freedom of will. Whether I really have it or not, I can never know, since I can't get outside the system to find out. God has the same problem, I'm sure. ;) > > So a second criticism of rubber ducky as model, besides its lack of > > point-to-point correspondence, is its triviality. > > Stretch the ducky to cover the entire city and then bend it to fit > all buildings. If we forget about physical limitations for a moment, > it can be done. Here's your correspondence. What are you saying? A piece of paper is not a map either, no more than a rubber ducky. You can *make* a map out of either: by drawing lines and labels on the paper, or, as you point out, by making a rubber mold of the city. In either case, whether you choose to regard the paper or the ducky as maps and London as the territory, or vice-versa, there is a correspondence of points - but the points are not identical. They inhabit different dimensions. You can build a new road or bulldoze a block of buildings to make a park and your map no longer fits. But you can change your map all you like and the city will very likely not comply. So on those grounds, I usually regard the city as territory and the paper as map, and not v.v. Call it mental habit if you will. ;) A map is an abstraction, a representation of that which is on a more fundamental level. If one looses sight of this insight the consequence can be serious indeed. There's a guy on ACT who is trapped in his own abstractions. By day he has the most lofty, elevated, and beautiful thoughts. By night he is attacked by hideous worms and bugs that eat his flesh. When he manages to chase the bugs away, he is fried and roasted by electric currents. And his physical health is shot. If he does not make a couscious effort to breathe, he starts to suffocate. He is an extreme example of most of humanity, taking his mental representations as reality itself. Losing sight of his process of abstration, and eventually control of it. In short, he is engulfed in his hallucination. > The point is that it is not what things *are* that makes them maps, > but what *you* have to *do* with them to make them fit each other. > People started to realize this about 50 years ago, but it didn't > quite reach the mainstream yet. Well, I'll grant that you can make them fit each other, to some extent, and perhaps instantaneously. But don't forget the dynamism of the territory, that does not belong to the map. Once the map begins to steal dynamism from the territory, watch out! The *conscious* use of this is what separates genius from madman. > Best, > Oleg Best, ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-884-1022096620-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 19:42:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MJgif23260 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 19:42:44 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-884-1022096620-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 19:43:41 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 19:43:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 55519 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 19:43:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 19:43:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.71) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 19:43:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.156] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 19:42:48 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:41:26 -0000 Subject: re:RE::Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 106 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > What are you saying? A piece of paper is not a map either, no more than a > rubber ducky. You can *make* a map out of either: by drawing lines and > labels on the paper, or, as you point out, by making a rubber mold of > the city. In either case, whether you choose to regard the paper or the > ducky as maps and London as the territory, or vice-versa, there is a > correspondence of points - but the points are not identical. They > inhabit different dimensions. Now, for some philosophy with a big dose of logic: (feel free to skip if the following seems to be too heavy-handed) My point was that it is *correspondence* which is important, not thepoints themselves. There are myriads of correspondences that one can draw across different objects, mental entities, perceptions and pretty much everything that one encounters. There are very complex correspondences (say, between a poem and emotions it invokes), and straightforward ones (between an elephant and its trunk). There are even trivial ones: between anything and itself. There's a very neat point that the correspondences can be combined. For example: London->paper map->mental image. The cool thing that almost everything can be encoded in the *patterns* of those correspondences. It does not matter what those correspondences link, as long as the patterns remain. For instance your statement about rubbed ducky can be represented as There is NO correspondence between London and your mental images which can be drawn as London->rubber ducky->mental image IMHO human mind is just a huge network of those correspondences. UCP tends to make these messy [obligatory on-topic-content]. By comparing the links we can "unstick" them from each other. If two entities coprrespond to exactly same things the exactly same way then they are identical. If not, then not. (end of heavy-duty logic) > > You can build a new road or bulldoze a block of buildings to make a park > and your map no longer fits. But you can change your map all you like > and the city will very likely not comply. So on those grounds, I usually > regard the city as territory and the paper as map, and not v.v. > > Call it mental habit if you will. ;) > > A map is an abstraction, a representation of that which is on a more > fundamental level. If one looses sight of this insight the consequence > can be serious indeed. There's a guy on ACT who is trapped in his own > abstractions. By day he has the most lofty, elevated, and beautiful > thoughts. By night he is attacked by hideous worms and bugs that eat his > flesh. When he manages to chase the bugs away, he is fried and roasted > by electric currents. And his physical health is shot. If he does not > make a couscious effort to breathe, he starts to suffocate. He is an > extreme example of most of humanity, taking his mental representations > as reality itself. Losing sight of his process of abstration, and > eventually control of it. In short, he is engulfed in his hallucination. That'd be good ol' Homer Smith, right? One of the wisest and sanest persons to ever post on A.C.T., IMHO. I know not a lot of a people agree with that statement, but that's OK :) Too bad he is such a whiner. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-885-1022096885-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 19:47:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MJl8f26786 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 19:47:08 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-885-1022096885-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 19:48:05 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 19:48:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 68229 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 19:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 19:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 19:48:05 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.167] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 19:48:04 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:48:02 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: Crab Nebula - Neutron Star Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 107 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > I snarfed a couple pages and couple x-ray images, a diagram, and an > animation and put them on my web site, for the time being. > > Some of the links are broken - i.e. relative rather than absolute, > however some important ones do work - and will take you to more > information. > > All this was motivated by looking at Rado's diagram. It reminded me of > the flows in this neutron star, which I am still not sure about. > > Is there a bi-directional flow along the axis? Yes. Rotating neutron stars usually have it. As far as I can remember it is a non-newtonian (i.e. relativistic) effect that occurs when a lot of stuff falls onto a very dense spinning object. A very beautiful photo indeed. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-886-1022097011-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 19:49:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MJnEf28183 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 19:49:14 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-886-1022097011-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 19:50:11 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 19:50:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 68754 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 19:50:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 19:50:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 19:50:10 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.133] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 19:50:10 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020522093808.00bf16d0@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:50:10 -0000 Subject: Re: 2::::[UCP-List] Gravity leaps into quantum world (fwd) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 108 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: KP, You don't know QM, do you? > > Rado EASILY explains gravity with > no disassociated quantum nonsense. It is nearly not as scary as you think it is. > > Given ONLY the existence of the ideal gas aether, > he stunningly demonstrates the evolution of physics. > > The ronsense theories are completely unnecessary. Geeeez. You see scientology everywhere. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-887-1022097717-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 20:01:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MK10f07545 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 20:01:00 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-887-1022097717-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 20:01:58 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 20:01:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 3060 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 20:01:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 20:01:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 20:01:56 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.171]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA14696 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 15:01:54 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020522125810.00d74d70@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020522093808.00bf16d0@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 12:58:10 -0700 Subject: Re: 2::::[UCP-List] Gravity leaps into quantum world (fwd) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 109 At 07:50 PM 5/22/2002 -0000, you wrote: >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: >KP, > >You don't know QM, do you? Not well at all! I have read a few short popularizations, as well as Rado's decisive evisceration of the general concepts and themes. "Counter-intuitive" usually means one must assume things that can be easily disproven by casual observation. You don't know Rado, do you? :-) He knows QM very well! As well as the rest of the history of physics! >> Rado EASILY explains gravity with >> no disassociated quantum nonsense. >It is nearly not as scary as you think it is. Endless figure-figure about absurd assumptions is not scary at all to those lost in THINK. >> Given ONLY the existence of the ideal gas aether, >> he stunningly demonstrates the evolution of physics. >> The ronsense theories are completely unnecessary. >Geeeez. You see scientology everywhere. > >Best, >Oleg I see awareness levels quite frequently, and ronsense is a well-know parallel to some of the MYSTERY nonsense of QM. Flubbard did NOT invent QM, if you though I was implying that. :-) KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-888-1022098555-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 20:14:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MKEvl18922 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 20:14:57 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-888-1022098555-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 20:15:55 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 20:15:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 19448 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 20:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 20:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 20:15:52 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.171]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA17015 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 15:15:44 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020522131123.00d78200@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 13:11:23 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] N-LIGHTENMENT NOW! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4MKEvl18922 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 110 N-LIGHTENMENT NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! +++++++++++++++++++++ INTRODUCTION TO UCP +++++++++++++++++++++ [REV: 20 MAY 2002, AKA: TECHTALK #00] [Earlier versions were titled TechTalk #23.] ============================================= THIS ARTICLE IS THE PRECISE INSTRUCTION FOR RAPIDLY RAISING YOUR OWN AWARENESS, NOW! ============================================= N-LIGHTENMENT IS THE PROGRESSIVE [N BECOMES N + 1] AND RAPID [TODAY!] ENLIGHTENMENT ACHIEVED BY *DOING* UCP! The basic principle for its creation was clearly stated in 1552, as a one sentence aside in a famous forty-page political treatise: "There are always a few, better endowed than others, who feel the weight of the yoke and cannot restrain themselves from attempting to shake it off: these are the men who never become tamed under subjection. ===================a cosmic clue!======================== These are in fact the men who, possessed of clear minds and far-sighted spirit, are not satisfied, like the brutish mass, to see only what is at their feet, but rather look about them, behind and before, and even recall the things of the past in order to judge those of the future, and compare both with their present condition. ====================================================== These are the ones who, having good minds of their own, have further trained them by study and learning. Even if liberty had entirely perished from the earth, such men would invent it. For them slavery has no satisfactions, no matter how well disguised." From: "Discours de la Servitude Volontaire" Written By: Éttiene de la Boétie, age 22, in 1552, while a student at the University of Orleans, France Translated by: Harry Kurz AbridgEdit by: Frederick Mann Text & Info at: http://www.buildfreedom.com/tl/tl06.shtml =============================================== UCP IS THE FULL DEVELOPMENT AND APPLICATION OF THAT FUNDAMENTAL UNIVERSAL PRINCIPLE TO RAPID ENHANCEMENT OF PERSONAL AWARENESS! =============================================== INTRODUCTION TO UCP: HOW TO DO UCP! The Universal Conscious Practice [UCP] is a profoundly simple and extremely powerful consciousness or awareness enhancement process, procedure or practice which improves emotional-mental-spiritual ability and can be done by almost anyone . . . with ONLY the information in this article. It can be done with another person as your Witness, or all by yourself, which is easier with the free Virtual Witness program. This article is written from the point of view of a Witness coaching a Seeker, but UCP is also a self-guided practice. See references at end of this article for download URLs. UCP is so radically simple that people often dismiss it with no testing because they incorrectly imagine something must be complex to be powerful and effective. In fact, just the opposite is true. The more complex a methodology or procedure is, the more limited and narrow it becomes, the less utility it has, and the faster you must throw it away and find another practice that still has "bite" or effectiveness to make further progress. UCP gives results from the beginning, and keeps on giving more and better results as long as you continue to practice it. Each new session builds on the awareness of all those preceding it. SEEING things exactly AS THEY ARE, without any additions, filters, alterations or denials, is THE basic curative process. UCP directly develops your ability to SEE * WHAT IS * NOW. Every discharge or trauma reduction process is merely a way of getting the Seeker to SEE THE PRESENT, AS IT IS. Seeing things as they are allows you to actually change them. The more a process limits what the Seeker looks at, the more limited it is. UCP is the basic meta-process or underlying supra-set of ALL workable therapy or self-improvement: the fundamental basis of rational thought itself. I am well aware this is a huge claim: ============== DO UCP & SEE! ============== THE CIRCLE OF NOW UCP is a procedure that starts in the present, circles repeatedly about it, and ends in a new present. It brings to consciousness what is actually [although unconsciously or unknowingly] already in the present, examines it thoroughly, and either dissolves it into nothingness, replaces it, or puts it back where it truly belongs. UCP can be represented by a very simple circular diagram with PRESENT in the middle, FUTURE ahead, PAST behind, and COMPARE PRESENT TO actions on right and left sides: 1] FUTURE 4] COMPARE 0] PRESENT 2] COMPARE TO PAST TO FUTURE 3] PAST The process starts in the middle with Step 0. Then it goes 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3 . . . around the outer ring, til it ends in the middle at 0 again. Here are the UCP questions, what they do, and how they work: INSTANT UCP INSTRUCTIONS: STEP# QUESTION ================ 0] WHERE ARE YOU NOW? [Describe PRESENT scene to satisfaction.] 1] WHERE MIGHT YOU BE? [Describe FUTURE scene to satisfaction.] 2] COMPARE THAT TO NOW. [Describe Similarities and Differences to satisfaction] 3] WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? [Describe PAST scene to satisfaction.] 4] COMPARE THAT TO NOW. [Describe Similarities and Differences to satisfaction] IT'S AS EASY AS A, B, C: A] START WITH STEP 0 B] REPEAT STEPS 1-4 TO "KNOW" C] END WITH DISCUSSION AND AGREEMENT DETAILED EXPLANATION OF PRACTICE STEPS 0] WHERE ARE YOU NOW? [Describe PRESENT scene to satisfaction.] I just ask "Where are you now?" If a new Seeker, I explain that this is their opportunity to look at their entire life and scene and examine anything important about it. We are not listing anything or looking for whys or causes or solutions or anything like that. It's just a Look, See and Say about where they are now. "Where" is interpreted in the most general way. I often used to say "Tell me about your universe," or "What's up with your life?", but it seems more logical and consistent to go with the past/present/future model, and it works just fine either way. It's the same question as "What's happening with you?", "Tell me all about it!", "How is it going?", "What is your attention on?", "What do you think about now?", "What is your intention now?" "What's up?". "What is your viewpoint?", or any of many other phrases which mean essentially the same thing. After the Seeker gets the hang of UCP, they don't care what you say because they know what they are doing. It's what the Seeker does that is important, not what the Witness says. You could simply say "Talk!" . . . and in fact I have done that too. A new Seeker may well talk for two hours about his entire life. A Seeker who already had a session this morning will probably give me a minute or two about what he has noticed since his last session. I don't care. He talks until he has looked at "Where he is now" and described it to his own satisfaction, not mine. This orients him to the present, creates a starting point for him to compare other scenes to, and makes his universe clearer. 1] WHERE MIGHT YOU BE? [Describe FUTURE scene to satisfaction.] This is the POTENTIAL, FUTURE, IMAGINE, MOCK-UP, CREATIVE side of the process. It is not a tightly worded or narrowly construed question. You could probably just as well ask "What might happen?," "Imagine a possible future," or anything similar. The words are not critical as long as you understand what you are doing. I merely want him to create or notice some possible or even impossible future. It does not have to make immediate sense or even be actually possible. I just want him to fish something out of his universe and look at it. Whatever the Seeker thinks of is fine with me. Anything he imagines is a proper answer. It could be a state of mind, an emotional state, a mental attitude, a spot on the highway, a physical position, a logical computation, a social position, a role he plays, etc.. It can be 10,000 years in the future, impossible by definition, in his wildest dreams, in another dimension, in a parallel or non-parallel universe . . . whatever. An unwritten Star Trek adventure is fine! It can be the same fantasy he's looked at 20 times already. Great! I don't care. Anything will do! His attention is on it NOW . . . so it MUST be the right thing to look at! I don't even care if it is really from the future or not. I often have the Seeker tell me a place he "might be," and in the process of describing or comparing it . . . he realizes it is actually an incident from his past. Fine! He snuck up on a REGRESSION by putting it in the future to make it more confrontable! Of course, that is also a possible future place, as he might be there again some day. You might notice this selection method is very similar to traditional "free association," except that traditional therapists don't know what to DO with what comes up. I once had a session in which "Where I Might Be" was the dream I had this morning . . . and analyzing the dream by comparing it to where I was now was profound, and took me all the way up to "know" in a huge area of my universe that was making me very frantic. Notice that this same dream might also have come up on the past leg of "Where I Was, this morning." Often it seems random whether something comes up on the Future or Past command. Who Cares? As long as it comes up, it's there . . . so you can now LOOK at it! This future leg of the process helps the Seeker discover his future, or lack thereof. It allows him to create new futures, and to change his mind and revise them. It lets him separate his goals, fantasies and possibilities from the actuality of his present time, and see how his future, or lack thereof, is actually created by him in the NOW. This is simple and easy because you are not trying to figure out what the Seeker should put his attention on, and when he should take it off. You don't have to find, assess or analyze mysterious stuff in the dusty far corners of his mind to pick a minute obscure topic or "item." You just gently help him look at whatever IS NOW. Since that is all that is needed, anything additional would be an unnecessary complexity and distract the Seeker from his important work. The less the coach / therapist / Witness does, and the less attention the client / Seeker has on him, the better UCP works. If the Seeker is so absorbed he forgets the Witness is there . . . Wonderful! This description of "where he might be" could be 2 words . . . or 20 minutes. I don't really care, as long as the Seeker describes it to his satisfaction. When he is ready to look at something else, we go on. 2] COMPARE THAT TO NOW. [Describe Similarities and Differences to satisfaction] This step has the Seeker compare the selected "something" with the present. I don't use the word "place," because I don't want to define what he will be comparing. I don't know if it will be an attitude, a computation, a physical location, an activity, an emotion, a state of mind, a beingness, an identity, or whatever . . . and I don't care. Whatever he talked about on Step 1, I just want him to compare that to NOW . . . which may still be what he described Step 0 . . . but quite likely has changed considerably since then. By "COMPARE," I am asking for SIMILARITIES and DIFFERENCES, but I only ask for them specifically if I am grooving in a new Seeker who is not used to UCP and is still feeling his way into it, or who may be reluctant or inhibited in talking. Otherwise "compare" is fine. This step could be two sentences, or it could take two hours as he looks back and forth between the two scenes over and over again, seeing more and more clearly, and describing things in more and more detail and texture . . . until he loses interest in this. In order to compare the two elements, the Seeker essentially has to view both pictures, incidents, viewpoints or whatever at the same time. This in itself is extraordinarily beneficial to him. Most people's awareness is much like a television set displaying a station selected by a remote control . . . in someone else's hands. They are totally hypnotized by whatever program, picture, valence, identity, advertisement, idea, etc. is currently displayed on screen. They compulsively identify with whatever that is as "themselves". When the picture flips to a different channel, it's still "them," as far as they are concerned . . . and they have *NO* awareness that it's actually a different channel and program. They can only duplicate or comprehend one viewpoint at a time, and it's totally beyond their awareness that they were just spouting a totally different party line. The constant discipline of comparing builds the ability to view two viewpoints, pictures, etc., at the same time. This forces them OUT of the picture they have been IN, and gets them to adopt the viewpoint of the being who is looking AT the pictures. This DIFFERENTIATES them from the pictures they have been compulsively dramatizing, and are now self-determinedly viewing. If their attention is on only one item, they can interiorize into it and BE it. When they confront two pictures and compare, it is very clear that they are neither one, but the viewer of pictures. This is an enormously important spiritual capacity to develop. It builds enormous self-awareness of the Seeker as the creator of his own universe, and greatly enhances his ability to knowingly create himself and his future. This simple ability is far beyond the realm of most "Ostensibly Together" or "Spiritually Progressed" individuals, who are actually thoroughly interiorized into a hysterical compulsive identity they strenuously dramatize. While doing UCP, you will see all kind of mental phenomena, known variously in different disciplines as circuits, valences, disorders, engrams, implants, dramatizations, attitudes, compulsions, identities, incidents, computations, etc., turn on with a vengeance . . . and turn off again with no fancy process commands, no chains of earlier similar incidents, no long tricky assessments of what is wrong or what to do, no complex risky listing actions, and no Seeker attention on the Witness or the Process. It's simple, smooth, often easy, and incredibly effective. Just let them describe similarities and differences as long as they have interest. It might be a few words. It might be many minutes of analysis and cognitions. You don't have to worry about "flattening" it or getting "all the charge off." If the Seeker has more attention on it, his attention will go back to it, and he can simply look at it again on the next merry [or not so] go-round. You do NOT have to "control his attention" and tell him when to think about what, and when to stop thinking about it. You controlling his attention is always DESTRUCTIVE to HIS universe. You just easily and naturally follow his lead to what HIS attention is on. When he is satisfied he has seen what he wants to . . . we move on. 3] WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? [Describe PAST scene to satisfaction.] This step of the process simply has the Seeker select something already existing that his attention is on. It is not critically worded. You could probably run it as "Remember something" or "What has happened?". This just asks for anything from his past. He simply selects something for examination from what has already happened, and is therefore PAST, and he is relatively the EFFECT of. It could be how his morning has been going so far, his reaction to a commercial, an exact specific incident lasting 1/10 of a second, a lingering thought he had 85,000 years ago as he lay dying, a room he used to live in, or a broad general scene that went on for trillions of years. I don't care. This leg of the process is the EMOTIONAL DISCHARGE or TRAUMA REDUCTION aspect of prior events. It includes as subsets all of the narrowly defined regression processes that many "well-trained" therapists know hundreds of. It handles and heals what has already happened to the Seeker as effect. It leads naturally to the FUTURE. 4] COMPARE THAT TO NOW. [Describe Similarities and Differences to satisfaction] This is the exact same compare question as in the first leg of the process, and operates similarly, but compares the present with the past, fixed, effect aspect of the Seeker's universe, rather than the future, imagine, cause, create, potential aspect of it. The constant motion back and forth between the legs of the process keeps him from getting stuck in the past and dramatizing himself as hallucinatory total victim, and from getting stuck in fantasies of the future and dramatizing himself as hallucinatory total victor, or vice versi. If the Seeker is heavily in DENIAL or DISASSOCIATION, it will start to build CONNECTIONS between past, present, and future. If the Seeker is in IDENTIFICATION, comparing past and future to present separates them. It creates awareness of similarities and differences . . . a basic definition of sanity. It pulls the past out of the present, and lets it go to where it should be . . . back into the past. It separates the Seeker more and more from the past into a clearer and more sharply defined and understood present time. The constant comparing to "where he is now" keeps bringing him into the present. The entire process works as a "Havingness" process, giving him an entire universe to have. The net effect of UCP is to help him SEE THE PRESENT, MORE CLEARLY, AS IT *IS*. This allows him to actually change his present, with a new thought. BUMPS IN THE ROAD The ONLY thing I have ever seen go "wrong" using UCP is that it stirs up "stuff" from the past and the Seeker starts to *UNKNOWINGLY* DRAMATIZE that stuff. Of course, it is SUPPOSED to do that, but some times it turns on too hard. This can manifest in many different ways: protest, "overrun," complaints, natter about the Witness, computations of "this is stupid", "isn't working", "won't work", "can't work," ANY kind of misemotion, and so forth. This can interfere with DOING the process and STOP the session if the Witness does not SEE what is happening and correct it by simply having the Seeker LOOK at what is going on. The major handle is simply to SEE that "where the Seeker IS NOW" is NO LONGER where he WAS when he started the session. The process itself has moved something else in, or moved him to a different place [take your pick of wordings for the same event]. You simply need to IDENTIFY where that new [old] place, feeling, computation, effort, intention, identity or so forth . . . IS *NOW*. ANY kind of question focussed on WHERE THE SEEKER IS NOW will point to and bring that out. If the Seeker's attention goes OFF of his universe and ON to you, session complaints, or something else, you simply need to get him to LOOK at what is happening NOW. ASK HIM: "WHAT IS HAPPENING?" "HOW ARE YOU FEELING?" "WHAT'S GOING ON?" "TELL ME MORE ABOUT THAT!" . . . or ANY other similar question that points his attention to HIS PRESENT [the center of the circle in our diagram] and gets him to LOOK AT, SEE, and DESCRIBE where *HE* is NOW. THIS RE-ORIENTS HIM TO HIS *ACTUAL* PRESENT ACTIVITY. Usually if there is some kind of "problem" the Seeker will be talking about SOMETHING ELSE but him which is causing effects. You need to get his attention OFF of what something ELSE is doing or might be doing or not and ON to what HE is DOING, RIGHT NOW! Instead of him telling you about SOMETHING ELSE, he needs to tell you about HIM, NOW! For example, someone who is raging at you that ....... [insert favorite person, condition, ghost, demon, polical party, job, etc] ...... is causing ........ [insert what he doesn't like or is sure to happen in the future, etc] ........ you need to get him to look at WHAT *IS* RIGHT NOW untiI HE SEES . . . *HE* IS RAGING! THEN YOU HAVE A NEW STARTING POINT, IN A NEW NOW. Once you have identified WHAT is happening NOW in the session, you can use your understanding that this IS coming from somewhere else in his past universe, has been stirred up or manifested by the process as part of its normal operation, and simply needs to be addressed. Use your SECRET WEAPON and ask him the MAGIC QUESTION: "EVER FELT LIKE THAT BEFORE?" or any variation of that simple question. Usually the answer is "YES!" and he tells you all about the PAST time or place, and you simply proceed as usual with "COMPARE THAT TO NOW." So the ENTIRE "correction" action when something goes "wrong" [i.e. "TOO right"] is: 1] Witness recognizes Seeker is SOMEWHERE "ELSE" NOW. 2] Witness gets Seeker to tell him WHAT is happening NOW. 3] Witness gets Seeker to SPOT WHERE it comes from in the PAST. 4] Witness has Seeker proceed normally by COMPARING to present. *ONLY* TWO QUESTIONS ARE REQUIRED FOR THIS "REPAIR": "NOW?" and "PAST?" In theory, the Seeker might be unable to function because of something from the FUTURE that was about to happen. In practice, I haven't ever seen it, and I suspect that some one who is bleeding to death or about to be arrested does not usually wind up doing UCP unless it's to look AT THAT. "NOW?", phrased as in any of the examples above, simply has the Seeker LOOK AT what he is doing NOW in session, instead of BLINDLY DOING it. It is simply a *NEW* STEP 0! "PAST?", phrased as "Ever felt like that before?", or any other variation appropriate to the Seeker's answer to the "NOW?" question, is simply a variation of "Where have you been," phrased to pick up whatever has just been stirred up by the process. So the ENTIRE bag of "tricks" necessary to "fix" a difficult session can be summed up . . . not in 20 different repair lists with hundreds of different questions to figure-figure about. . . but in TWO WORDS: NOW? PAST? If you can just remember this VERY SIMPLE concept, then if you start to have difficulty in a session, you can VERY SIMPLY correct fit. It is NOT complex. It MAY, however, be . . . extremely difficult! IF YOU KEEP IT SIMPLE, AND KEEP *DOING* IT, UCP WORKS AMAZINGLY WELL AND RAPIDLY. Above are the procedure commands. Below is the overall session pattern: A] START THE SESSION WITH STEP 0 This identifies the present situation or scene, serves as a locational or orientation, and starts the process working. B] REPEAT STEPS 1-4 TO "KNOW" You are not looking for a sudden "cognition." You want to cycle through Steps 1-4 over and over again until the Seeker comes up to "know" in the area of the session. He will not even know what area or topic the session is about until the end. On the way there, he will definitely be at "not know" or lower about the entire session, both what it is about and how it will resolve. If the Seeker THINKS he knows what the session is about at the beginning, that is simply hallucination. Don't fight with it. Just let it happen. The Seeker simply has to work through his hallucinations. You do *not* assess for or pick a topic and then "run" a session "on" that topic or "item". That will NOT work well. There will be some theme, topic or area the entire session is about, but you will not likely know what it is until it emerges at the end of session, when the Seeker comes "full circle" to his first concerns and gets up to "know" in that area of his universe. If you have "problems" . . . handle with "NOW?" and then "PAST?"! As the Seeker achieves more familiarity with UCP, he will naturally STOP "doing it by the numbers" and gradually ease into simply looking at what is there. He will then only need a question when he "runs down" and isn't SURE what he should be looking at NOW. The "by the numbers" approach is essentially a TRAINING AID. C] END WITH DISCUSSION AND AGREEMENT When the Seeker gets up to know, it will be apparent to both of you. He will know what the session was all about. It will be clear to both of you that the entire session was about this one issue, even if it seemed like a random rancid stew of unrelated free[dis]association nonsense along the way. At the end, he will usually give you an indication that he feels he is done with the session, and why. This is the appropriate time for discussion about how the session went, what his emotional tone is, how the proctice is going for him, questions and answers, observations about his life or life in general, or whatever comes up. Often, the Seeker will ask the Witness what he thinks about something. The natural thing to do is . . . Answer! This is the havingness or integraion phase. Having focussed his attention intensively on his own universe for the core of the session, the Seeker will typically broaden his attention to the exterior universes and seek other viewpoints to view and compare with his own now new. As he comes up to the ability of Communication . . . he communicates! This phase might be just two sentences, or twenty minutes of new stuff popping in to see. When you both agree you are done . . . you are done. UCP is NOT a one-session do-once procedure. You practice it over and over again on an ongoing basis, integrating it more and more into your continuous consciousness. No one I know has ever used it up yet. As long as you DO UCP, you will continue to raise your emotional tone level and your awareness. As the Seeker becomes more familiar with the practice and what he does in his own universe to make it happen, he will become less and less dependant on commands from the Witness, and will start to run "freestyle". This is an excellent sign and should be encouraged by the Witness . . . shutting up and doing nothing. THE UCP UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PLOT: A *HUGE* HELP IN DOING UCP IS THE CHART OF N-LIGHTENMENT! which is an html document you can use on the screen or print on two sides for a one-page always-on reference what fits in your wallet. It is a UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PLOT, aligning a growing number of individual scales, which allows you to locate your general or chronic level of awarness, [where your attention chronically is], so you can *WATCH* YOUR OWN AWARENESS *RISE* AS YOU *DO* UCP. This is a very powerful factor, for it puts you in charge of your own awareness. IN THE POSITION OF A GOD IN YOUR OWN UNVIERSE, CREATING YOURSELF IN YOUR OWN I-MAGI-NATION. UCP SUMMARY UCP addresses ANY aspect of PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE! It performs the AS IT IS or DISCHARGE function of therapy, as well as the CREATIVE, MOCK-UP role of self-discovery. It addresses WHATEVER the Seeker has stuck attention on, and handles it until the Seeker has NO attention on it. It provides a UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PLOT which helps you understand where you have been *SEE* WHERE YOU ARE *NOW* MUCH CLEARER and prepare yourself for where you are going next! So you can understand it *WHILE* you experience it! WELL . . . I THINK THAT JUST ABOUT COVERS IT! You NOW have a powerful tool to help yourself and your family, friends, and anyone else you wish well. All basic UCP data is completely free at the web site. There is a lot more to learn to become expert on UCP, but that has been done in as little as a few weeks, in much less than 24 hours of actually doing UCP . . . AND UNDERSTANDING THIS ARTICLE ITSELF QUALIFIES YOU TO GIVE YOURSELF A UCP SESSION! . . . RIGHT NOW! The FREE Virtual Witness program makes that much easier! Forget about your figure-figure . . . just *DO* some work on yoursELF! PLEASE *DO* UCP! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! UCP USENET POSTS: alt.clearing.technology, and coming soon to an ALT.UCP newsgroup near you! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! UCP *NEWS SERVER* COMING SOON: ucp.ath.cx "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe to this group, send an email to: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP POSTS PARTIAL USENET ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-889-1022100779-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 20:52:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MKq2l22015 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 20:52:02 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-889-1022100779-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 20:52:59 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 20:52:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 16299 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 20:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 20:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 20:52:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.156] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 20:52:58 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020522125810.00d74d70@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 20:52:57 -0000 Subject: Re: 2::::[UCP-List] Gravity leaps into quantum world (fwd) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 111 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > At 07:50 PM 5/22/2002 -0000, you wrote: > >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > >KP, > > > >You don't know QM, do you? > > Not well at all! I have read a few short > popularizations, as well as Rado's decisive > evisceration of the general concepts and > themes. "Counter-intuitive" usually means > one must assume things that can be easily > disproven by casual observation. How often do you casually observe individual atoms? :) Most of Quantum effects in our everyday casual world are very effectively masked by uncontrolled interaction with environment. A stray atom hist your carefully prepared setup, and poof! the effect is gone. That is the most annoying technical factor that prevents quantum computers from getting bigger. It's not that effects are counterintuitive, it's that our direct experience only covers a very narrow range of possibilities. Anything beyond that is bound to feel odd, at least at first. > > You don't know Rado, do you? :-) Amazon says they will have new stocks in 5-6 weeks, Maybe then I'll know better. For now I have to go by his expositions on hios web site and I find them not at all persuasive. And Bell's inequality (experimentally proven!) makes me doubly wary of any theory that purports to explain QM effects in terms of *local* waves, vortices and other complex structures. > > He knows QM very well! > > As well as the rest of the history of physics! > > >> Rado EASILY explains gravity with > >> no disassociated quantum nonsense. > > >It is nearly not as scary as you think it is. > > Endless figure-figure about absurd > assumptions is not scary at all to > those lost in THINK. Absurdity is certainly in the eye of beholder, things are absurd ONLY when compared against something else. Perhaps you should look at both sides and with some analysis, I believe, you'll discover that it is our common-sense which is absurd (or rather, absolutely inapplicable to certain situations). And while quantum physicists certainly do enjoy thinking now and then, but they CREATE new inventions, that often turn out to be helpful. Once again, proof is in the pudding. > > >> Given ONLY the existence of the ideal gas aether, > >> he stunningly demonstrates the evolution of physics. > > >> The ronsense theories are completely unnecessary. > > >Geeeez. You see scientology everywhere. > > > >Best, > >Oleg > > > I see awareness levels quite frequently, > and ronsense is a well-know parallel to > some of the MYSTERY nonsense of QM. I maintain that is a false identification. QM is a few levels above Ron's head, who was debunking calculus in his lectures. He thought calculus is a useless figure-figure. Don't mix up attitudes of people who *describe* QM (or anything else) with the subject itself. Subjects don't have awareness level, because they are not aware things. They are simply data. Anything can become a subject of an idle figure-figure. Tell an ipochondriac about anthrax and he'll worry himself to death. What does it tell about the awarerness level of the anthrax germs? Not much. > > Flubbard did NOT invent QM, if > you though I was implying that. I am glad you know LRH was NOT a nuclear physicist =) Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-890-1022103161-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 21:31:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.92]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MLViI01194 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 21:31:44 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-890-1022103161-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 21:32:41 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 21:32:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 55949 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 21:32:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 21:32:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 21:32:39 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.171]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA32015 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 16:32:36 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020522142853.00d07120@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020522125810.00d74d70@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:28:53 -0700 Subject: Re: 2::::[UCP-List] Gravity leaps into quantum world (fwd) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 112 Oleg wrote: >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: >> At 07:50 PM 5/22/2002 -0000, you wrote: >> >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: >> >KP, >> > >> >You don't know QM, do you? >> >> Not well at all! I have read a few short >> popularizations, as well as Rado's decisive >> evisceration of the general concepts and >> themes. "Counter-intuitive" usually means >> one must assume things that can be easily >> disproven by casual observation. Oleg: >How often do you casually observe individual atoms? :) Never, so far! >Most of Quantum effects in our everyday casual world are very >effectively masked by uncontrolled interaction with environment. A >stray atom hist your carefully prepared setup, and poof! the effect >is gone. That is the most annoying technical factor that prevents >quantum computers from getting bigger. Damn . . . those cosmic rays! >It's not that effects are counterintuitive, it's that our direct >experience only covers a very narrow range of possibilities. Anything >beyond that is bound to feel odd, at least at first. OK. I forgot who described QM as counter-intuitive. >> You don't know Rado, do you? :-) > >Amazon says they will have new stocks in 5-6 weeks, Maybe then I'll >know better. Email him! He'll send you one right away! CD or printed! I think they are $25 each. He might cut you a deal on both of them? >For now I have to go by his expositions on hios web site >and I find them not at all persuasive. I would hardly expect his teaser articles to be persuasive. The best they can do is INTEREST you in his BOOKS, . . . which I find stunningly complete and compelling. >And Bell's inequality (experimentally proven!) makes me doubly wary >of any theory that purports to explain QM effects in terms of *local* >waves, vortices and other complex structures. OK! I wasn't asking for *ANY* kind of belief, only that you actually examine Rado's model, which he presents in VERY painstaking detail. >> He knows QM very well! >> >> As well as the rest of the history of physics! >> >> >> Rado EASILY explains gravity with >> >> no disassociated quantum nonsense. >> >> >It is nearly not as scary as you think it is. >> >> Endless figure-figure about absurd >> assumptions is not scary at all to >> those lost in THINK. >Absurdity is certainly in the eye of beholder, things are absurd ONLY >when compared against something else. Perhaps you should look at both >sides and with some analysis, I believe, you'll discover that it is >our common-sense which is absurd (or rather, absolutely inapplicable >to certain situations). OK. >And while quantum physicists certainly do enjoy thinking now and >then, but they CREATE new inventions, that often turn out to be >helpful. Once again, proof is in the pudding. OK. But confirmation of the math does not prove the model. >> >> Given ONLY the existence of the ideal gas aether, >> >> he stunningly demonstrates the evolution of physics. >> >> >> The ronsense theories are completely unnecessary. >> >> >Geeeez. You see scientology everywhere. >> > >> >Best, >> >Oleg >> >> >> I see awareness levels quite frequently, >> and ronsense is a well-know parallel to >> some of the MYSTERY nonsense of QM. >I maintain that is a false identification. QM is a few levels above >Ron's head, who was debunking calculus in his lectures. He thought >calculus is a useless figure-figure. Yes. I've heard the lecture. The fact that QM has correct math does not prove the model, which to the best of my understanding *IS* MYSTERY in it's KNOW-ABILITY. I'd *LOVE* to have your analysis of Rado's 400+ page books, which I have gone through line-by-line and am amazingly impressed by! Rado impresses me much more than Feynman! His attitude is very similar, and his comprehension is VASTLY GREATER AND MORE COMPLETE! And I really do love Feynman! >Don't mix up attitudes of people who *describe* QM (or anything else) >with the subject itself. Subjects don't have awareness level, because >they are not aware things. They are simply data. So angels dancing on the head of a pin is a perfectly sane subject to you? Even if the theorists are nuts? >Anything can become a subject of an idle figure-figure. Tell an >ipochondriac about anthrax and he'll worry himself to death. What >does it tell about the awarerness level of the anthrax germs? Not >much. Agreed! >> Flubbard did NOT invent QM, if >> you though I was implying that. > >I am glad you know LRH was NOT a nuclear physicist =) > >Best, >Oleg Even when I was a rondrrhoid, I didn't take him seriously as a scientist or cogent philosopher. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-891-1022108972-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 23:08:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MN8Yh16182 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 23:08:34 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-891-1022108972-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 23:09:32 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 23:09:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 72093 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 23:09:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 23:09:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.123) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 23:09:31 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 22 May 2002 16:09:31 -0700 Received: from 130.195.196.201 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 May 2002 23:09:30 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 May 2002 23:09:31.0135 (UTC) FILETIME=[BAB4E0F0:01C201E5] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [130.195.196.201] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:09:30 +0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Now I know why... Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 113 ... we need a newsgroup; so that I can avoid the dull threats on theoretical physics. ;-) ondine _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-892-1022109621-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 23:19:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MNJNh24189 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 23:19:23 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-892-1022109621-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 23:20:21 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 23:20:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 57200 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 23:20:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 23:20:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 23:20:20 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4MNJGf27457; Wed, 22 May 2002 23:19:16 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020522142853.00d07120@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:19:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: 2::::[UCP-List] Gravity leaps into quantum world (fwd) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 On Wed, 22 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:28:53 -0700 > From: Net Prophet > Oleg wrote: > >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > >> At 07:50 PM 5/22/2002 -0000, you wrote: > >> >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > >Absurdity is certainly in the eye of beholder, things are absurd ONLY > >when compared against something else. Perhaps you should look at both > >sides and with some analysis, I believe, you'll discover that it is > >our common-sense which is absurd (or rather, absolutely inapplicable > >to certain situations). > > OK. > > >And while quantum physicists certainly do enjoy thinking now and > >then, but they CREATE new inventions, that often turn out to be > >helpful. Once again, proof is in the pudding. Or: "I have in my hand, Sir, a flask of xenon tetrafloride. If you would care to examine it, I believe you will be forced to conclude that no, indeed, the "noble gasses" are not inert after all." abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-893-1022110342-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 22 23:31:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MNVOh03220 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 23:31:24 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-893-1022110342-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 May 2002 23:32:22 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 22 May 2002 23:32:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 8776 invoked from network); 22 May 2002 23:32:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 May 2002 23:32:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 May 2002 23:32:21 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4MNVI920943; Wed, 22 May 2002 23:31:18 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 23:31:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Now I know why... Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 115 On Wed, 22 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > ... we need a newsgroup; so that I can avoid the dull threats on theoretical > physics. ;-) > > ondine I know you're ribbing us, but where would you put the emphasis, on "dull" on "threa(?)s" on "theoretical" or on "physics"? abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-894-1022125961-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 03:51:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4N3phR26819 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 03:51:43 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-894-1022125961-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 03:52:41 -0000 X-Sender: justintonation@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 03:52:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 83274 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 03:52:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 03:52:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 03:52:39 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.166] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 03:52:38 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "justintonation" X-Originating-IP: 63.60.5.10 X-Yahoo-Profile: justintonation MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 03:52:37 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4N3phR26819 Status: RO X-Status: FA X-Keywords: X-UID: 116 I have pretty much defined most of below so no help is necessary. Although I came across this paragraph where i am not sure whether I should define the words or not. "While doing UCP, you will see all kind of mental phenomena, known variously in different disciplines as circuits, valences, disorders, engrams, implants, dramatizations, attitudes, compulsions, identities, incidents, computations, etc., turn on with a vengeance . . . and turn off again with no fancy process commands, no chains of earlier similar incidents, no long tricky assessments of what is wrong or what to do, no complex risky listing actions, and no Seeker attention on the Witness  or the Process.  It's simple, smooth, often easy, and incredibly effective." I went to a NLP seminar one time, some of the stuff was interesting. One thing the guy said was that if you give someone a negative command they will do exactly what you don't want them to do. I assume this will be worse if they do not understand what it is that you are telling them not to do. My take is they will quite likely figure figure about it, imagining it to be something they should know. E.g. a friend of mine teaches a kids karate class. It is a constant struggle to get them to stand still and stop running around etc. My friend says "Don't run around, wriggling like a bunch of of worms !". Instantly the kids start running around wriggling like a bunch of worms. It works with adults too. If I am in a London cab and the drivers asks me "so where do you want to go?" and I say "well I don't want to go to Big Ben and I don't want to go to Westminister abbey" the guy will have already started to drive in the direction of those places. He assumes that I want to go somewhere near those places. Back to the kids Karate class...when my friend said "Stand straight as an arrow. " they did. They looked like they were going to break in half they were standing so stiff. This phenomena must have something to do with some point on the tone scale. But I think it is important to make things as clear as possible. That is whhy I writing a glossary. KP's "N-LIGHTENMENT NOW" article is great and easy to read,, ecept in my opinion for this paragraph. Noone except an ex-scientologist will know what engrams, implants, listing actions etc. are. And based on some of the questions from new-comers I would assume that it is stuff like that that might be throwing them. This can be solved in a few ways: *I can add a glossary item that defines it the same way that scientology would. *I could simply define it as an incorrect scientology theory and leave it at that. *Ask KP to edit the paragraph. *Or simply ignore it and hope. Thoughts? Justin --- In ucplist@y..., "justintonation" wrote: > Hello folks, > > I am putting together a glossary entries for some of the > unfamiliar wors in KP's N-LIGHTENMENT NOW article. The > other articles I will do in time. > > One of the words is "know" as in until you get up to know. > KP? Do you want to offer a glossary entry for that one? I assume > it means up to know on the "know to mystery chart" but I could be > mistaken. > > Here are some other words and expressions that need to be > defined for full of better compreension of the article. > > computation > > item > > valence > > dramatizing > > interiorize > > hysterical compulsive identity > > circuits > > engrams > > implants > > incidents > > process commands > > chains of earlier similar incidents > > dissassociation / denial > > indentification > > misemotion > > listing actions > > hallucination > > cognitions > > turns on > > flattened [eg no one has ever flattened UCP] > > charge > > not know [eg at the begining of the session the seeker will be in > not know] > > freestyle > > at effect > > emotional tone level > > legs of the process > > protest > > havingness > > overran > > natter > > Handle [ eg the handle is to ...] > > figure figure > > repair lists > > > justin [nb this is my name so no defintion is necessary ;-)] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-895-1022127066-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 04:10:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4N4A9n15986 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 04:10:09 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-895-1022127066-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 04:11:07 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 04:11:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 8588 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 04:11:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 04:11:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.90) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 04:11:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.160] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 04:11:04 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.206.110 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 04:11:01 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: Now I know why... Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 118 --- In ucplist@y..., "Ondine Green" wrote: > ... we need a newsgroup; so that I can avoid the dull threats on theoretical > physics. ;-) > > ondine > > I know this is targeted at us, so I'll be constructive: On some other mailing lists I am on, there's a very nice tradition to tag the message subjects with standard tags that tell what the message is about and help filtering out uninteresting stuff. Common Examples: [Flame]About your parents [BSP]New web site (BSP=Blatant Self Promotion) [NR]Funny thing I saw (NR=Non-Relevant to the list topic) [Admin]New rules So I have a proposition, why don't we use a similar system? I think it'll make life easier for all of us. best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-896-1022128221-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 04:29:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4N4TNn29663 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 04:29:23 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-896-1022128221-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 04:30:21 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 04:30:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 45378 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 04:30:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 04:30:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 04:30:19 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4N4TFD28082; Thu, 23 May 2002 04:29:15 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 04:29:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: re:RE::Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 119 On Wed, 22 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 19:41:26 -0000 > From: punkfloyd.rm > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > What are you saying? A piece of paper is not a map either, no more > than a > > rubber ducky. You can *make* a map out of either: by drawing lines > and > > labels on the paper, or, as you point out, by making a rubber mold > of > > the city. In either case, whether you choose to regard the paper or > the > > ducky as maps and London as the territory, or vice-versa, there is a > > correspondence of points - but the points are not identical. They > > inhabit different dimensions. > > Now, for some philosophy with a big dose of logic: > (feel free to skip if the following seems to be too heavy-handed) > > My point was that it is *correspondence* which is important, not > thepoints themselves. There are myriads of correspondences that one > can draw across different objects, mental entities, perceptions and > pretty much everything that one encounters. There are very complex > correspondences (say, between a poem and emotions it invokes), and > straightforward ones (between an elephant and its trunk). There are > even trivial ones: between anything and itself. The correspondence is important, I agree. And I thought I made it clear that I regarded it so. > There's a very neat point that the correspondences can be combined. > For example: London->paper map->mental image. And my further point is that in going from London to paper map you are moving to a new level of abstraction - a higher level. (Moving from Planet Earth to London has already been an abstractive step. Where does London begin and the rest of the planet end? For instance each day many particles move over London from all parts of the globe; people are born and die; ships arrive and depart carrying masses back-and-forth. the London of today is not the London of yesterday. Heraclitus was onto something: You cannot step into the same river twice. "River" is an abstraction pointing to a silent "something". The map of the river is another step up the ladder of abstraction. I am not sure what your point is about the mental image. In my view all we have to work with are mental images. But the mental image can be drawn from the map or from the territory. Sometimes one is more useful than the other. BUT it is prudent to be aware of the origin of the mental image that you use. Sanity depends upon it. > The cool thing that almost everything can be encoded in the > *patterns* of those correspondences. It does not matter what those > correspondences link, as long as the patterns remain. > > For instance your statement about rubbed ducky can be represented as > There is NO correspondence between London and your mental images > which can be drawn as London->rubber ducky->mental image I don't remember saying exactly that. At first I thoght that the ducky as map would not be useful. When you explained how you wanted to stretch it I granted that it could be called a map or mold. But I doubt its usefulness or practicality. > IMHO human mind is just a huge network of those correspondences. UCP > tends to make these messy [obligatory on-topic-content]. By comparing > the links we can "unstick" them from each other. If two entities > coprrespond to exactly same things the exactly same way then they are > identical. If not, then not. > > (end of heavy-duty logic) One thing UCP does is straighten out the abstractions. The dog1957 that bit you when you were six years old is not dog2002 that is rushing toward you now. It is a brand-new dog in a fresh moment of time. > > > > You can build a new road or bulldoze a block of buildings to make a > park > > and your map no longer fits. But you can change your map all you > like > > and the city will very likely not comply. So on those grounds, I > usually > > regard the city as territory and the paper as map, and not v.v. > > > > Call it mental habit if you will. ;) > > > > A map is an abstraction, a representation of that which is on a more > > fundamental level. If one looses sight of this insight the > consequence > > can be serious indeed. There's a guy on ACT who is trapped in his > own > > abstractions. By day he has the most lofty, elevated, and beautiful > > thoughts. By night he is attacked by hideous worms and bugs that > eat his > > flesh. When he manages to chase the bugs away, he is fried and > roasted > > by electric currents. And his physical health is shot. If he does > not > > make a couscious effort to breathe, he starts to suffocate. He is an > > extreme example of most of humanity, taking his mental > representations > > as reality itself. Losing sight of his process of abstration, and > > eventually control of it. In short, he is engulfed in his > hallucination. > > That'd be good ol' Homer Smith, right? One of the wisest and sanest > persons to ever post on A.C.T., IMHO. I know not a lot of a people > agree with that statement, but that's OK :) > Too bad he is such a whiner. "I would count myself a King of Infinite Space were it not that I have bad dreams" - Hamlet The guy's got a mountain of film tangled on the cutting room floor. He can't untangle it and he won't throw it away because he wants to look at each frame first. That's his privilege, of course. His present body won't last long enough for him to accomplish that. And since track is always being created, it may not be possible to ever accomplish. He's a god dreaming he's a man dreaming he's a god. > Best, > Oleg Best, ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-897-1022136345-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 06:44:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4N6ilF07722 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 06:44:47 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-897-1022136345-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 06:45:45 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 06:45:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 7658 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 06:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 06:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 06:45:44 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4N6ieG01290; Thu, 23 May 2002 06:44:40 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 06:44:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4N6ilF07722 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 > Thoughts? > "While doing UCP, you will see all kind of mental phenomena, > known variously in different disciplines as circuits, valences, > disorders, engrams, implants, dramatizations, attitudes, > compulsions, identities, incidents, computations, etc., My suggestion would to use ordinary non-clinical language to replace these terms. for instance: ..as mechanical thoughts or rigid behavior, imitative, borrowed or non-authentic behavior, physical symptoms or "unexplainable" outbursts, rigid prejudices, mental confusions, stuck feelings, etc. I'm sure Konchok will be able to improve on this. . . I agree, on the basis of several attempts to introduce friends and family to UCP, there is much too much material and much too much jargon FOR THEM. The feedback I have got is: 1) Too many words. 2) It's scientology in drag. No thanks! If the line is to go mainstream, some more gentle gradient must be devised. I would suggest placing a link to Konchok's site with a note to the effect that ex-scientology members may need extra help in getting oriented, and if this is your case, you might look here. abner _________________________________________ On Thu, 23 May 2002, justintonation wrote: > I have pretty much defined most of below so no help is > necessary. > > Although I came across this paragraph where i am not sure > whether I should define the words or not. > > "While doing UCP, you will see all kind of mental phenomena, > known variously in different disciplines as circuits, valences, > disorders, engrams, implants, dramatizations, attitudes, > compulsions, identities, incidents, computations, etc., turn on > with a vengeance . . . and turn off again with no fancy process > commands, no chains of earlier similar incidents, no long tricky > assessments of what is wrong or what to do, no complex risky > listing actions, and no Seeker attention on the Witness  > or the Process.  It's simple, smooth, often easy, and incredibly > effective." > > KP's "N-LIGHTENMENT NOW" article is great and easy to read,, > ecept in my opinion for this paragraph. Noone except an > ex-scientologist will know what engrams, implants, listing > actions etc. are. > > And based on some of the questions from new-comers I would > assume that it is stuff like that that might be throwing them. > > This can be solved in a few ways: > > *I can add a glossary item that defines it the same way that > scientology would. > > *I could simply define it as an incorrect scientology theory and > leave it at that. > > *Ask KP to edit the paragraph. > > *Or simply ignore it and hope. > > Thoughts? > > Justin > > --- In ucplist@y..., "justintonation" wrote: > > Hello folks, > > > > I am putting together a glossary entries for some of the > > unfamiliar wors in KP's N-LIGHTENMENT NOW article. The > > other articles I will do in time. > > > > One of the words is "know" as in until you get up to know. > > KP? Do you want to offer a glossary entry for that one? I > assume > > it means up to know on the "know to mystery chart" but I could > be > > mistaken. > > > > Here are some other words and expressions that need to be > > defined for full of better compreension of the article. > > > > computation > > > > item > > > > valence > > > > dramatizing > > > > interiorize > > > > hysterical compulsive identity > > > > circuits > > > > engrams > > > > implants > > > > incidents > > > > process commands > > > > chains of earlier similar incidents > > > > dissassociation / denial > > > > indentification > > > > misemotion > > > > listing actions > > > > hallucination > > > > cognitions > > > > turns on > > > > flattened [eg no one has ever flattened UCP] > > > > charge > > > > not know [eg at the begining of the session the seeker will be > in > > not know] > > > > freestyle > > > > at effect > > > > emotional tone level > > > > legs of the process > > > > protest > > > > havingness > > > > overran > > > > natter > > > > Handle [ eg the handle is to ...] > > > > figure figure > > > > repair lists > > > > > > justin [nb this is my name so no defintion is necessary ;-)] > abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-898-1022141766-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 08:15:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4N8F8h10066 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 08:15:08 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-898-1022141766-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 08:16:07 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 08:16:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 79221 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 08:16:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 08:16:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 08:16:05 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.159]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA03161 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 03:16:03 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020523011144.00d9db40@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 01:11:44 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 121 ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Hi! I was out of the loop for a few days, but I'm back again. I've finally divorced myself completely from Homer's servers. I've switched over to teranews.com, which at first I thought had a very bad newsfeed, but it appears that was only my confusion caused by not starting fresh with a new newsrc file. They DO take a debit card for a FREE 50 megs per day feed. Unless you are running a news server, that's an extraordinary amount of news! I reloaded 105 newsgroups in only 30 megs. I had 44 ALT.UCP articles logged when I switched newservers, and only 3 of them appeared on teranews, so it appears that ALT.UCP may still not be propagating well. I wonder if that could be related to the newsgroup ALT.UCP being in ALL CAPS in my teranews group list. ALL the other newsgroup names are in lower case. This appears to be a unix standard, and while I can post to and receive new articles on the teranews server, it may cause propagation problems on the net to other servers? Any opinions from usenet gurus on this issue? How does it look to you? The caps issue may be local only to teranews, who reloaded alt.ucp at my request, and may have capped it up accidentally. Teranews.com does have a *MUCH SHORTER* article life than Homer's news2lightlink.com does, so you have to load articles quicker to see them. So far, teranews is not seeing all of Homer's new alt.clearing.X newsgroups, although they do have alt.clearing.avatar, which is being used already. Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS AT: alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! KP is currently posting via teranews.com free news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe to this group, send an email to: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-899-1022145909-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 09:24:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4N9OCD24044 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 09:24:12 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-899-1022145909-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 09:25:09 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 09:25:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 66160 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 09:25:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 09:25:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 09:25:08 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.159]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA11437 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 04:25:04 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020523022126.00e079c8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 02:21:26 -0700 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 122 At 05:47 PM 5/21/2002 -0000, you wrote: >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: KP: >> Existence of aether is VITAL to explaining action-at-a-distance. >> >> Without a medium, there can be no waves. >> >> Even children can understand that! Oleg: >Objections on a few points. >1) Action at distance. This assumes there's distance and there's >cause-and-effect sort of a relationship. We cannot ever see causation >(except, perhaps, our own), we can only see correlations. Worse yet, >the distance concept might be misguided. It is possible to describe >light so that it does not propagate at all. It's a very >counterintuitive theory (Twistor theory), but it works and it is >equivalent to our usual electromagnetic theory. Assuming space [distance] does not exist is what I would call a *VERY* counter-intuitive theory! That puts you in Homer's ball park! >2)There can be waves without medium. I thoroughly disagree. >For instance a computer >simulation of water waves. There's no medium that carries waves, just >pixels on the screen. What does matter for wave-like behaviour is >that *Nearby* points behave in a certain correlated way (called Wave >equation) A simulation is NOT a wave. Pixels on the screen are NOT a wave. They are DEPICTIONS of a wave. Although you could not seen them without other waves. >3)Why electromagnetic field itself is not a good enough medium for >you? WHAT does it consist of? Aribtrary "potentials" made up of *SIGNIFICANCES?* You CAN'T sell me that! To have physical effects, you must have a physical medium. >You can say it is EM field that waves, that would be perfectly >fine. By definition it has exactly the right properties to carry >light and other stuff. The difference between EM field and mechanical >aether is ascribed things like density and pressure, while EM fields >just has an internal state (called 4-potential),while density, >pressure and so on are derived from that. You can describe WHAT IS in many different ways. >4)If you have such a problem with action at distance, please explain >how neighbouring parts of aether know about each other's >existence.There must be something that links them otherwise there >won't be any correlated behaviour. EXACTLY MY POINT! AETHER *IS* THE MEDIUM! One aether particle "knows" another exists when they bang into each other in a frictionless newtonian interraction. >> >> It's back and working better than ever. >> >> >> >> What is GONE are bent space, telepathic particles, >> >> time going backwards, big bangs and other insanity. >> > >> >What the "bent space" actually means in down-to-earth terms (and >here >> >is a nice link to UCP , to keep this discussion on-topic) is that >to >> >diffeernce between HERE and THERE depends on the way you compare. >For >> >instance you need to carry something form there to here. In >general >> >the result depends on how you do that. That's all. Classic Physics >> >blatantly ignores such subtlety, and thus, as far as I am >concernd, >> >is more insane than general relativity. >> >> Classic Physics produced E=MC^2 >First of all, Classic (newtonian) physics doesn't even have C. It >deems the speed of light neither special nor constant. >What are you talking about is Maxwellian Electrodynamics. It is only >deemed "classical physics" because it was invented before Einstein. That's what I mean by classical [19th century-pre-relativity] physics: Maxwell, Thompson, Fitzgerald, Lorentz, etc. >Electrodynamics is 100% compatible with Relativity, in fact >Relativity follows from it. On the other hand, Newtonian physics is >incompatible with electrodynamics. Nonsense! Newtonian interractions between aether particles *GENERATE* E=MC^2 and all the rest of current day physics, without all the insane theories which deny obvious facts. READ RADO! You are figure-figuring about something you have not read. You have a stunning surprise waiting for you! >The Einstein's feat was not inventing e=mc^2 (which was indeed known >to Poincare and Lorentz) but applying the insights gained from >electrodynamics to mechanics. Rado generates Kepler AND Einstein from newtonian aether particles! I KID YOU NOT! *READ* HIM! >By the way, do you actually KNOW what explanations were given to >E=mc^2 before and after Einstein? And why do you think they are >fundamentally different? Lorentz and his peers derived their math from *AETHER* theories based on simple understandable logical concepts. >> Einstein just stole it and invented an insane explanation for it. >> >As far as something actually bending, that is a visual metaphor, >> >notthing more. For instance, General gravity can be reformulated >> >without any reference to curved space-time and, vice versa, the >good >> >old Newtonian gravity can be described as a bent space theory >(which >> >was done by Elie Cartan in 1930's). >> >> Rado explains gravity quite simply. >> >> CHECK IT OUT! > >Does he give any quantitative predictions? Especially in the places >where there are very precise experimental tests (gravitational light >bending, orbits of heavenly bodies etc)? YES! AND MANY OTHERS! I KEEP telling you he generates all the common equations from aether ONLY. He explains diffraction in a few sentences that even a six-year old can understand, and then he rigorously develops all the math for it. That is just one of *MANY* examples, including red shift. >> >Similarly, QM notices that what we know affects what we see. Or >that >> >division of the world in parts such as here and there, the >observer >> >and the observed, is largely arbitrary. >> >> And invents insane explanations for it. >It doesn't. That's pretty much the bottom of it. You can try to add >explanations but that'd not be QM , that'd be an interpretation of QM. The THEORY is the EXPLANATIONS for the math. The math can be generated by many different theories. To the best of my understanding, the QM explanations are nonsense. READ RADO. >Of course we would need to put this all in a nice mathematical form >to be able to make calculations, but that's a technical matter. Rado meticulously derives the math from his model. >> >If we ignore this and pretend that the world is a solid immutable >> >entity and we have nothing to do with it then what we see might >look >> >like weird magic effects. Again I believe QM is way more sane than >> >the old-school Newtonian approach. >> >> But I'm not comparing QM to Newton. >> I'm comparing it to Rado's aether theory. >My understanding is that Rado attempts to emulate QM effects by using >mechanical aether, which is itself a newtonian object (like liquids >or solids). He specifically uses the word "Fluid Dynamics". Fluid >Dynamics is a special case of Newton's theory. YES! E=MC^2 is strictly derived from the Newtonian interractions of aether particles. He does not "emulate" QM theory, he DISPENSES with ANY necessity for it. READ RADO . . . instead of speculating about him. You have *NOT* grasped the implications of newtonian mechanics! Even though you THINK you have . . . you have been MISLED. Carefully considered, they lead directly to all of "modern" physics. Prepare yourself for a tidal wave of cosmic comprehension! Rado integrates all the theories, with AETHER ONLY! He has *DELIVERED* a grand unified theory! >> >As of big bang heory, it's a a domain of astrophysics, and I don't >> >feel qualified to discuss it. >> >> OK. I'm not either. >> >> But if you are going to tell me the entire >> universe was compressed into zero space, >> . . . I'll tell you . . . GO INTO COMEDY! >Noone says, "zero space". What *is* said that way back universe had >much bigger density than now. Of course it had infinite volume, just >as it does now (However, volume of universe is not a very well >defined concept to begin with) Since the current theories break down >at some ultra-high density values, it's unknown what happened before >some point. Perhaps it depends on what popularizations you have read. I keep hearing about a single point of zero dimension, NOT infinite volume. >By the way there are a few alternatives to big bang currently under >discussion. I have posted an URL recently. Excellent! You are NOT stuck on insanity! >Btw, I am rereading rado's site with a fine comb now and I have a few >comments , which I'll post when I am done. > >Best, >Oleg Way Cool! READ HIS BOOKS! Instead of speculating on what his theory might be. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-900-1022166826-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 15:12:49 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.87]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NFCm924372 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 15:12:48 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-900-1022166826-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 15:13:47 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 15:13:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 13539 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 15:13:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 15:13:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 15:13:43 -0000 Received: by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g4NFCdt24339; Thu, 23 May 2002 15:12:39 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020523011144.00d9db40@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:12:39 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 123 On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 01:11:44 -0700 > From: Net Prophet > ALT.UCP . . . ETC. > > > Hi! > > I was out of the loop for a few days, but I'm back again. > > I've finally divorced myself completely from Homer's servers. Congratulations! That's a big step forward. > I've switched over to teranews.com, which at first I thought > had a very bad newsfeed, but it appears that was only my > confusion caused by not starting fresh with a new newsrc file. I'm glad that helped. > They DO take a debit card for a FREE 50 megs per day feed. > Unless you are running a news server, that's an extraordinary > amount of news! I reloaded 105 newsgroups in only 30 megs. You pay them how much for your FREE feed? > I had 44 ALT.UCP articles logged when I switched newservers, > and only 3 of them appeared on teranews, so it appears that > ALT.UCP may still not be propagating well. It does not propagate to my ISP's servers: news.mindspring.com news.nwlink.com I checked again just now. > I wonder if that could be related to the newsgroup ALT.UCP > being in ALL CAPS in my teranews group list. ALL the other > newsgroup names are in lower case. This appears to be > a unix standard, and while I can post to and receive new > articles on the teranews server, it may cause propagation > problems on the net to other servers? Any opinions from > usenet gurus on this issue? How does it look to you? The > caps issue may be local only to teranews, who reloaded > alt.ucp at my request, and may have capped it up accidentally. Terranews may use MS servers - just a guess. All newsgroup lists I have ever seen are completely lower case. MS used to convert all filenames to upper case. Unix is traditionally case-sensitive, but when talking to the outside world it must be case-insensitive in part. But if it works for you locally at terranews, then what's the problem? If you can SEE you messages appear (say from another server) and better yet receive responses, then you know they are appearing elsewhere. Thanks for the update. Glad to see you beck in business! abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-901-1022169151-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 15:51:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.87]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NFpX928081 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 15:51:33 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-901-1022169151-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 15:52:32 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 15:52:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 25874 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 15:52:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 15:52:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 15:52:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.172] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 15:52:29 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:52:25 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List][NR] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > The correspondence is important, I agree. And I thought I made it clear > that I regarded it so. Ok. My further point was that it doesn't matter what the correspondence is between (pardon my English grammar :) > > > There's a very neat point that the correspondences can be combined. > > For example: London->paper map->mental image. > > And my further point is that in going from London to paper map you are > moving to a new level of abstraction - a higher level. (Moving from > Planet Earth to London has already been an abstractive step. Where does > London begin and the rest of the planet end? For instance each day many > particles move over London from all parts of the globe; people are born > and die; ships arrive and depart carrying masses back-and-forth. the > London of today is not the London of yesterday. Yes. But as far as city map is concerned London of today *is* the same as the London of yesterday (unless there has been some construction going on). It might be a different city, but location of Westminster Abbey did not change. > > Heraclitus was onto something: You cannot step into the same river > twice. "River" is an abstraction pointing to a silent "something". > The map of the river is another step up the ladder of abstraction. yes, but it's not a simple ladeer. It's quite a tangle of maps :) > > I am not sure what your point is about the mental image. I was simply referring to your knowledge of "How to get around London". Paper maps fit it and rubber ducks not. > In my view all > we have to work with are mental images. But the mental image can be > drawn from the map or from the territory. Sometimes one is more useful > than the other. BUT it is prudent to be aware of the origin of the > mental image that you use. Sanity depends upon it. Yes. > > There is NO correspondence between London and your mental images > > which can be drawn as London->rubber ducky->mental image > > I don't remember saying exactly that. At first I thoght that the ducky > as map would not be useful. When you explained how you wanted to stretch > it I granted that it could be called a map or mold. But I doubt its > usefulness or practicality. I was just trying to make the notion of "useful map" precise. > > One thing UCP does is straighten out the abstractions. The dog1957 that > bit you when you were six years old is not dog2002 that is rushing > toward you now. It is a brand-new dog in a fresh moment of time. However, these dogs do have something in common.It might or might not be relevant to deciding whether or not run away from the rushing beast :) I'd not be necessary if you could just look at the dog and see whether or not it wants to bite you but sometimes this is difficult. > bad dreams" - Hamlet > > The guy's got a mountain of film tangled on the cutting room floor. He > can't untangle it and he won't throw it away because he wants to look at > each frame first. I really don't know what is he trying to do. All I know is what he does, which is post interesting (and sometimes rather profound) messages to a.c.t. > > That's his privilege, of course. Yes. The great thing about being wise is that you don't have to always act in a wise way. > His present body won't last long enough for him to accomplish that. I don't know about that. People sometimes live surprisingly long. He does have asthma but that's not a terminal disease at this time and age. > And > since track is always being created, it may not be possible to ever > accomplish. > > He's a god dreaming he's a man dreaming he's a god. Gods like strangest things at times. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-902-1022176034-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 17:46:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NHkGd19373 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 17:46:16 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-902-1022176034-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 17:47:14 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 17:47:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 66844 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 17:47:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 17:47:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 17:47:11 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4NHk7F24264; Thu, 23 May 2002 17:46:07 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:46:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List][NR] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 126 On Thu, 23 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:52:25 -0000 > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > > The correspondence is important, I agree. And I thought I made it > clear > > that I regarded it so. > > Ok. > > My further point was that it doesn't matter what the correspondence > is between (pardon my English grammar :) The grammar is fine. Although I think I agree, I would like to check it out. Do you mean that if you can plot points from Map A onto Map B that you have a valid map? Yes, I would agree with that. This is the context in which I see the Rado business. If Rado's math can be plotted onto Newton's math or Maxwell's math then the maps are equally valid. Whether they are equally useful is a different question - as well as the question of how well they represent the territory, the fundamental datum. The laws of physics, so called, remain embedded in primary datum. What we can do is make observations and devise maps and math to explain and predict and control what primary datum does. > > > There's a very neat point that the correspondences can be > combined. > > > For example: London->paper map->mental image. > > > > And my further point is that in going from London to paper map you > are > > moving to a new level of abstraction - a higher level. (Moving from > > Planet Earth to London has already been an abstractive step. Where > does > > London begin and the rest of the planet end? For instance each day > many > > particles move over London from all parts of the globe; people are > born > > and die; ships arrive and depart carrying masses back-and-forth. the > > London of today is not the London of yesterday. > > Yes. But as far as city map is concerned London of today *is* the > same as the London of yesterday (unless there has been some > construction going on). It might be a different city, but location of > Westminster Abbey did not change. Agreed so far as the horizon of the map, and mental images derived from it goes. Nevertheless, in order for me to go from the map and its mental image to London and its mental images I must travel to London. > > Heraclitus was onto something: You cannot step into the same river > > twice. "River" is an abstraction pointing to a silent "something". > > The map of the river is another step up the ladder of abstraction. > > yes, but it's not a simple ladeer. It's quite a tangle of maps :) The tangle of maps reflects the tangle of viewpoints which we humans have learned to adopt: map of hydraulic flows, map of microorganisms, geologic maps, maps of fish ecology, map of riverbank economy, and so forth. But again, each viewpoint is an abstraction from primary datum. > > > > I am not sure what your point is about the mental image. > I was simply referring to your knowledge of "How to get around > London". > Paper maps fit it and rubber ducks not. > > > In my view all > > we have to work with are mental images. But the mental image can be > > drawn from the map or from the territory. Sometimes one is more > useful > > than the other. BUT it is prudent to be aware of the origin of the > > mental image that you use. Sanity depends upon it. > > Yes. I'm glad you see this. Perhaps I have been flogging a dead horse. :) > > > There is NO correspondence between London and your mental images > > > which can be drawn as London->rubber ducky->mental image > > > > I don't remember saying exactly that. At first I thoght that the > ducky > > as map would not be useful. When you explained how you wanted to > stretch > > it I granted that it could be called a map or mold. But I doubt its > > usefulness or practicality. > > I was just trying to make the notion of "useful map" precise. > > > > > One thing UCP does is straighten out the abstractions. The dog1957 > that > > bit you when you were six years old is not dog2002 that is rushing > > toward you now. It is a brand-new dog in a fresh moment of time. > > However, these dogs do have something in common.It might or might not > be relevant to deciding whether or not run away from the rushing > beast :) I'd not be necessary if you could just look at the dog and > see whether or not it wants to bite you but sometimes this is > difficult. The difficulty is compounded if memory of dogs long dead is diverting you attention. > > bad dreams" - Hamlet > > > > The guy's got a mountain of film tangled on the cutting room floor. > He > > can't untangle it and he won't throw it away because he wants to > look at > > each frame first. > > I really don't know what is he trying to do. I take him at his word. He said that about looking. >All I know is what he > does, which is post interesting (and sometimes rather profound) > messages to a.c.t. > > > > > That's his privilege, of course. > > Yes. The great thing about being wise is that you don't have to > always act in a wise way. > > > His present body won't last long enough for him to accomplish that. > I don't know about that. People sometimes live surprisingly long. He > does have asthma but that's not a terminal disease at this time and > age. > > > And > > since track is always being created, it may not be possible to ever > > accomplish. > > > > He's a god dreaming he's a man dreaming he's a god. > > Gods like strangest things at times. Indeed! > Best, > Oleg Best, ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-903-1022180676-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 19:03:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NJ3q507358 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:03:52 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-903-1022180676-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 19:04:51 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 19:04:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 21080 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 19:04:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 19:04:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 19:04:34 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.201]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA22614 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 14:04:30 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020523120054.00df1348@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020521102023.01a66d08@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:00:54 -0700 Subject: Re::Re: [UCP-List] Equanimity and Acceptance Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 127 At 10:24 PM 5/21/2002 -0000, you wrote: >--- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > >> Yes. >> >> A model should be understandable, >> or it does NOT create understanding. Oleg: >Which, in turn, depends on what one is already familar with. Rado is >familiar with gases, I am much more familiar with computers than with >gases, so I prefer models that are similar to computers (such as TQFT >I mentioned) I prefer models that are similar to ACTUALITY. $pyontologists prefer models based on the reactive mind and booty satans. The only problem is they are unrelated to WHAT IS. Rado's book tells you everything you need to know, which is understandable by a child. Even I can follow the math . . . and I don't even know calculus! >> >Oftentimes, however, you can have drastically different models >that >> >are 100% equivalent mathematically. Quantum mechanics, for >example, >> >has at least a dozen interpretations. >> All of which appear to be INSANE MYSTERY. >Mystery , perhaps, to people who are unfamiliar with them, but pretty >clear to people who work with them. Counterintuitive, yes, but >behavior of atoms *is* different from behavior of humans-scale >objects. Rado's model is completely intuitive, and you can actually THINK with it. It does NOT require you to DISASSOCIATE the real world from the theoretical! It explains everything FROM the behavior of aether particles TO galaxy-scale objects, like galaxies. >Are you familiar with any of them? Only from popularizations in the press. That's quite enough for most of them! >> You can plot physics theories on the tone scale. >That'd hightly dependent on the tone of the person who does the >plotting, as well as the way the theory was explained to him. Yes. >For instance, the same Newton's theory can be explained as "F=ma", >the way Newton himself did, or through the "Principle of Least >action" ala Lagrange and Hamilton. Completely different attitudes, >yet it's the exactly same theory. Rado is *NOT* exactly the same theory as QM, even though both theories produce the same math. >> Yes. >> The map can be examined as a thing-in-itself, >> in which case it is NOT actually a SYMBOL. >Glad you underfstand that, because some people don't =) Yes. They are lost in symbols . . . or below. >> The MATH is COMPLETELY severable from >> the insane complex *MYSTERY* theories. >> >> The sane model predicts the same math. >The advantage of sanity is that it produces workable results where >insanity doesn't. That's how you tell them apart. Yes. Occam helps too. >If 2 models produce exactly the same math then they are >observationally 100% indistinguishable and the choice between them is >a matter of taste, not sanity. NOT TRUE AT ALL! They may be differentiated by other implications, and by our friend Occam. >For instance I have mentioned Newtonian and Hamiltonian formulation >of classical mechanics. If you take a real world situation and apply >either approach to it, you'll get exactly same results. However, >there are situations where each approach is easier to deal with. >Newton's is easier when you ask "What the thing is going to do >next?", Lagrange's is easier when you ask "What is the long-term >behaviour of the system?" > >Additionally, Lagrange's approach is way more general. It is easily >applicable to systems that are not strictly mechanical (such as >electromagnetic fields). Rado's theory *IS* a UNIFIED FIELD THEORY that explains everything from Kepler to Einstein, from the plank level to the behavior of galaxies, from strict mechanics to electromagnetic fields. READ RADO. I have to say, you remind me of a $pyontologist, who, when presented with UCP, eternally argues that UCP is nonsense, because it never handles either basic-basic engrams OR the booty satans, and he therefore adamantly refuses to *DO* UCP. My basic response to him is DO UCP AND SEE! My basic response to you is READ RADO AND *SEE!* He has done for physics what I have done for awareness. I know you have a huge emotional investment in extremely complex "counter-intuitive" theories. YOU *CAN* GET OVER THAT! *IF* YOU WANT TO! READ RADO! >> >There's also Quantum Field Theory(QFT) - an application of Quantum >> >Mechanics to fields (that is things that fill entire space). Here >> >situation is paradoxical: QFT is *known* to be non-consistent, yet >it >> >gives amazingly precise answers (like one part in quadrillionths). >> >String theory, in part, is an attempt to clean up the >> >inconsistencies. QFT is known not to be universally applicable, >but >> >the situations where it breaks down are beyond our reach at the >> >moment. >> Rado derives plank's constant from his theory, >> as well as MANY other things, and *SOLVES* >> MANY of the inconsistencies of insane theory. >Derivation of h is not really a big deal because it is dependent on >you choice of units. You can even make it 1, which is what people >often do to save typing. What really matters is dimensionless >constants (such as ratio of circumference of circle to its diameter, >i.e Pi) How about gravity, red shift, photon behavior, mechanics, diffraction, and most everything else in the known universe? >From extremely careful observation of a simple theory a six-year old can duplicate! Would that impress you? Or MUST it be counter-intuitive to satisfy your craving for complexity? >One such famous example is a so-called fine structure constant, which >basically describes how strong electrical charges interacts with >electrical field. It's around 1/137 . If we can explain why it is >that number and not some other, we are getting somewhere. READ RADO and you will get somewhere. So far, you are spinning your wheels in THINK. >> >Standard Model is the collection of known facts about sub-atomic >> >particles, such as quarks and electrons. It includes Electroweak >> >theory and Quantum Chromodynamics, both are types of QFT. Standard >> >model is ugly and gross, yet it is in a very good agreement with >the >> >experiment (with a couple of notable glitches!). It's an evolving >> >thing and people hope to make it less ugly. By all indications >> >Standard Model is not the final word. >> > >> >Quantum foam. >> >There are 2 versions of quantum foam. Both are parts of the effort >to >> >apply quantum mechanics to gravity. Since noone knows how to work >out >> >a full quantum gravity theory, these are very speculative entities >> >indeed. >> >> RADO *EASILY* EXPLAINS GRAVITY! >> >> >The original idea (originating in late 19th century, by the way) >is >> >that at a very small scale the space is not at all like the nice >> >Euclidean space we all know and love. The microscopic structure >might >> >turn out to be very complex indeed, perhaps resembling a higher- >> >dimensional version of a foam. >> At the size level of the individual aether particles, their >> statistically averaged "wave" character does not apply. >But it does apply to real particles. Isn't that what I just said? >See Feynman lecture on physics >vol.3. By now technology has advanced enough to use quantum wave >properties of individual particles. Recently it has been used even to >perform simple computations. If technology keeps advancing as fast as >it does in a few years we'll have a device that can kick ass of any >modern supercomputer. > >Also there are certain experiments that put huge problems in front of >any theories that try to explain quantum effects as a consequence of >internal structure of particles and perhaps some waves that accompany >them. (which, it seems Rado does) READ RADO instead of DUBBING IN what you THINK he MIGHT have said. >For instance, you can find out if someone is eavesdropping on your >fiber-optic line even if the eavesdropper does not see any signal >come through. > >Also there's the famous Bell inequality (verified by quite a few >experiments), where quantum correlations are created simultaneously >in 2 separated places (i think it's up to a mile now). Moreover the >tests are designed in such a devilishly clever way that it >distinguishes between *any* side-effect of a complex structure of the >particles (with aether ripples around them or anything) and a true >non-local quantum correlation. > >It takes about a page of math to prove that it indeed works that way, >but it's nothing but high-school vector algebra and trigonometry. >It's one of the most beautiful pieces of reasoning out there. READ RADO. I'll bet you a free lunch YOU will tell me he's WAY more beautiful! >> >The other version of quantum foam is called "spin foams" or >> >Topological Quantum Field Theory (TQFT). It's a very strange >beast. >> >Basically it represents space as a sort of a network. Or one can >say >> >that every piece of space functions like a quantum computer. When >you >> >allow the computer to change with time, you get a sort of a foam. >> >This is one of the most developed alternatives to the string >theory, >> >but it too has many hurdles to overcome. >> >> Such as being totally non-comprehensible mystery ronsense. > >Comprehensible to me, since I have studied some material on quantum >computing. In fact I find it absolutely amazing that gravity behaves >exactly like a quantum computer. It'd be a shame if that turns out to >be just a fluke. READ RADO. He explains gravity as a SIMPLE consequence of aether, THAN A CHILD CAN UNDERSTAND. >The main problems with that approach (AFAIK) is to find general rules >that tell us how this networks correspond to our high-level world of >space, time, matter and energy. READ RADO. >So far only a few special cases has >been investigated. This is in part because we don't have yet a good >theory and practical knowledge of quantum computing, Much as $pyontology has never produced a clear. >at least nothing >like the usual computer science with its 50+ years of experience. And >our actual working quantum computers have only 1 quantum byte of >memory :( But I am sure that'd change soon enough. Your next level of counter-intuitive complexity will handle that! See the registrar now! >Best, >Oleg Best wishes for you to . . . READ RADO! KP ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-904-1022181125-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 19:11:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NJB7X14246 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:11:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-904-1022181125-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 19:12:06 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 19:12:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 46539 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 19:11:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 19:11:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 19:11:47 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.201]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA23704 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 14:11:45 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020523120808.00d89d50@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:08:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Crab Nebula - Neutron Star Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 128 At 04:35 PM 5/22/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: >I snarfed a couple pages and couple x-ray images, a diagram, and an >animation and put them on my web site, for the time being. Pretty! >Some of the links are broken - i.e. relative rather than absolute, >however some important ones do work - and will take you to more >information. >All this was motivated by looking at Rado's diagram. It reminded me of >the flows in this neutron star, which I am still not sure about. PLEASE read his books! >Is there a bi-directional flow along the axis? I believe the axial flow is basically one direction, but both poles should still be radiating like mad as the condensing flow on the intake side radiates some of the energy of its compression-collisions. KP > http://sdf.lonestar.org/~abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-905-1022182032-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 19:26:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.90]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NJQDX29460 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:26:13 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-905-1022182032-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 19:27:12 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 19:27:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 52689 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 19:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 19:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.88) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 19:26:55 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.165] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 19:26:55 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:26:53 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] UCP or PEE? Both? What did it? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 129 Hi all, About 7 months ago I started doing UCP. I also started on UT - urine therapy which KP also recommends on his site. Since my grandma died I have had astma. That is about 6 years now. One month ago I started noticing that it no longer matters if I take my astma medicine or not. I still feel a bit "heavy" in the lung region but taking the medicine doesn't help. I have tested my lungs a bit and I have gone 1 week without taking my medication. Before I couldn't have survived 3 days without getting totally red in the head and having to pull in air in a desperate manner. I once forgot my spray so I know this. I don't feel totally cured... What do you think? Was it UCP or UT or both?? Best Wishes, AK ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-906-1022182466-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 19:33:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NJXSX06054 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:33:28 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-906-1022182466-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 19:34:26 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 19:34:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 45865 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 19:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 19:34:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 19:34:10 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.201]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA27474 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 14:34:06 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020523123029.00d89d50@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:30:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4NJXSX06054 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 130 Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help [posted to AU and ACT] At 03:52 AM 5/23/2002 -0000, Justin wrote: > >I have pretty much defined most of below so no help is >necessary. Way Cool! >Although I came across this paragraph where i am not sure >whether I should define the words or not. > >"While doing UCP, you will see all kind of mental phenomena, >known variously in different disciplines as circuits, valences, >disorders, engrams, implants, dramatizations, attitudes, >compulsions, identities, incidents, computations, etc., turn on >with a vengeance . . . and turn off again with no fancy process >commands, no chains of earlier similar incidents, no long tricky >assessments of what is wrong or what to do, no complex risky >listing actions, and no Seeker attention on the Witness  >or the Process.  It's simple, smooth, often easy, and incredibly >effective." I don't see why you have to understand ANY of those things to either understand or DO UCP. It's a list of concepts you may or may not be familiar with, that you DO NOT NEED. It's like me saying to baker-students that ANYTHING which can be made from white flour, including donuts, crullers, petits-fours, scones, bear claws, danish, crepes and gastronos can *ALL* be made with ground up sprouts or whole wheat flour. *WHO CARES* what they are? >I went to a NLP seminar one time, some of the stuff was >interesting. One thing the guy said was that if you give someone >a negative command they will do exactly what you don't want >them to do. I assume this will be worse if they do not understand >what it is that you are telling them not to do. My take is they will >quite likely figure figure about it, imagining it to be something >they should know. E.g. a friend of mine teaches a kids karate >class. It is a constant struggle to get them to stand still and stop >running around etc. My friend says "Don't run around, wriggling >like a bunch of of worms !". Instantly the kids start running >around wriggling like a bunch of worms. It works with adults too. Sure. Attention goes to what attention is put on. Tell someone to look up! . . . Rather than tell them NOT to look down! If you are arguing that whole parapraph can be eliminated, I do see the logic in that idea! >If I am in a London cab and the drivers asks me "so where do >you want to go?" and I say "well I don't want to go to Big Ben and I >don't want to go to Westminister abbey" the guy will have already >started to drive in the direction of those places. He assumes that >I want to go somewhere near those places. Back to the kids >Karate class...when my friend said "Stand straight as an arrow. " >they did. They looked like they were going to break in half they >were standing so stiff. This phenomena must have something >to do with some point on the tone scale. But I think it is important >to make things as clear as possible. That is whhy I writing a >glossary. Cool! >KP's "N-LIGHTENMENT NOW" article is great and easy to read,, >ecept in my opinion for this paragraph. Noone except an >ex-scientologist will know what engrams, implants, listing >actions etc. are. Attitudes, disorders, identities and compulsions are frequently used in MANY OTHER "therapies" too, and I was trying to make my list inclusive of multiple irrelevant theories, NOT just $pyontology . . . but perhaps I failed miserably? >And based on some of the questions from new-comers I would >assume that it is stuff like that that might be throwing them. I was trying to head off the compulsive computations that hex-$pyontologists as well as psychologists, psycho-therapists and many other people compulsively offer. Maybe that's a bad idea on my part? Or maybe I didn't execute it well? >This can be solved in a few ways: > >*I can add a glossary item that defines it the same way that >scientology would. > >*I could simply define it as an incorrect scientology theory and >leave it at that. > >*Ask KP to edit the paragraph. > >*Or simply ignore it and hope. > >Thoughts? > >Justin I see the options more or less as: *Add MORE terms from more disicplines to make sure there is a WIDE spectrum. *Leave it as it is. *Delete ALL the specific [likely unknown] terms from the paragraph and just leave a general statement. Is there a consensus from the UCPeons? Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS AT: alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! KP is currently posting via teranews.com free news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe to this group, send an email to: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-907-1022182897-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 19:40:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NJecX13143 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:40:38 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-907-1022182897-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 19:41:37 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 19:41:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 65865 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 19:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 19:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 19:41:36 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4NJeV326302; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:40:31 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020523120808.00d89d50@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:40:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Crab Nebula - Neutron Star Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 131 On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:08:08 -0700 > At 04:35 PM 5/22/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: > >Is there a bi-directional flow along the axis? > > I believe the axial flow is basically one direction, > but both poles should still be radiating like mad > as the condensing flow on the intake side radiates > some of the energy of its compression-collisions. One direction? That's what I though at first looking at the photo. A cosmic jet-engine. But what holds it in place? Shheesh! If that mutha breaks loose, there'll be hell to pay for that quarter of the galaxy! (actually, if it's holding its position in space, I would expect the axial forces would have to precisely balance between the two poles of the axis) Maybe someone can compute the magnitude of the gyroscopic (whaddya call it?) inertia . . . ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-908-1022183736-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 19:54:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.90]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NJsbX27249 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 19:54:37 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-908-1022183736-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 19:55:36 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 19:55:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 42598 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 19:55:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 19:55:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 19:55:33 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.201]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA32495 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 14:55:31 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020523125154.00df0b00@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:51:54 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4NJsbX27249 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help [posted to AU and ACT] At 06:44 AM 5/23/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: >> Thoughts? > >> "While doing UCP, you will see all kind of mental phenomena, >> known variously in different disciplines as circuits, valences, >> disorders, engrams, implants, dramatizations, attitudes, >> compulsions, identities, incidents, computations, etc., > >My suggestion would to use ordinary non-clinical language to replace >these terms. for instance: > >..as mechanical thoughts or rigid behavior, imitative, borrowed or >non-authentic behavior, physical symptoms or "unexplainable" outbursts, >rigid prejudices, mental confusions, stuck feelings, etc. Another option I had not thought of! HOW ABOUT THIS AS A SOLUTION? "While doing UCP, you will normally see many different kinds of weird mental phenomena, known variously in different disciplines by many arbitrary terms, appear with a vengeance . . . and disappear again with no fancy complex rigid process commands, no chains of earlier similar  incidents, no long tricky assessments of what is wrong or what to do,  no complex risky listing actions, and no Seeker attention on the Witness  or the Process. It's simple, smooth, often easy, and incredibly effective." >I'm sure Konchok will be able to improve on this. . . My tentative solution is above. I already put it up at the web site. Is this the ONLY paragraph causing this confusion? >I agree, on the basis of several attempts to introduce friends and >family to UCP, there is much too much material and much too much jargon >FOR THEM. OK. >The feedback I have got is: > >1) Too many words. I took some out. Is that enough? It is impossible to make something that everyone will like. Some people are looking for help. Others are looking for something to object to. >2) It's scientology in drag. No thanks! IF you could get them to DO UCP and COMPARE UCP with $pyontology, that would go away soon . . . BUT . . . >If the line is to go mainstream, some more gentle gradient must be >devised. I wrote N-LIGHTENMENT NOW! with the specific intention of removing $pyontology jargon and making it suitable for anyone. Perhaps it needs more effort! >I would suggest placing a link to Konchok's site with a note to the >effect that ex-scientology members may need extra help in getting >oriented, and if this is your case, you might look here. > > abner Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS AT: alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! KP is currently posting via teranews.com free news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe to this group, send an email to: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-909-1022186938-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 20:48:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.73]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NKm0a15846 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 20:48:00 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-909-1022186938-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 20:48:58 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 20:48:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 46169 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 20:48:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 20:48:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 20:48:57 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.201]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA11234 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 15:48:53 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020523134517.00e06158@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020523011144.00d9db40@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:45:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 133 Re: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP . . . ETC. [posted to AU and ACT] At 03:12 PM 5/23/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: >On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 01:11:44 -0700 >> From: Net Prophet > >> ALT.UCP . . . ETC. KP: >> Hi! >> >> I was out of the loop for a few days, but I'm back again. >> >> I've finally divorced myself completely from Homer's servers. >Congratulations! >That's a big step forward. Yes! Every psychOTic I do NOT have to depend on is a step forward. >> I've switched over to teranews.com, which at first I thought >> had a very bad newsfeed, but it appears that was only my >> confusion caused by not starting fresh with a new newsrc file. >I'm glad that helped. Me too! >> They DO take a debit card for a FREE 50 megs per day feed. >> Unless you are running a news server, that's an extraordinary >> amount of news! I reloaded 105 newsgroups in only 30 megs. > >You pay them how much for your FREE feed? $00.00 Upgrades for MORE than 50 megs per day cost more. I could only burn 30 megs as hard as I tried yesterday, installing and browsing 105 brand new newsgroups, many of which had thousands of messages. They force you to post your card number for "age verification" and undoubtedly to screen out people who don't have a card. I DON'T like giving a card number for a free feed, but I like giving it for a *PAID* feed EVEN LESS! >> I had 44 ALT.UCP articles logged when I switched newservers, >> and only 3 of them appeared on teranews, so it appears that >> ALT.UCP may still not be propagating well. >It does not propagate to my ISP's servers: > news.mindspring.com > news.nwlink.com > >I checked again just now. Is that because they don't carry the alt.ucp newsgroup itself? If so, could you ask them to add it? If they have the newsgroup, and it's not getting the messages, that is a much more serious problem? >> I wonder if that could be related to the newsgroup ALT.UCP >> being in ALL CAPS in my teranews group list. ALL the other >> newsgroup names are in lower case. This appears to be >> a unix standard, and while I can post to and receive new >> articles on the teranews server, it may cause propagation >> problems on the net to other servers? Any opinions from >> usenet gurus on this issue? How does it look to you? The >> caps issue may be local only to teranews, who reloaded >> alt.ucp at my request, and may have capped it up accidentally. >Terranews may use MS servers - just a guess. All newsgroup lists I have >ever seen are completely lower case. Yes. And EVERY other newsgroup I get from them IS lower case. That's what seems so WEIRD about it! I just wrote them and asked. Maybe they'll switch it to lower case? Maybe that would help? >MS used to convert all filenames to >upper case. Unix is traditionally case-sensitive, but when talking to >the outside world it must be case-insensitive in part. But if it works >for you locally at terranews, then what's the problem? Reading from their server what I post to their server doesn't prove very much to me. I'm worried about propagation to OTHER servers. >If you can SEE you messages appear (say from another server) I can only see ONE server with my Agent. If I check another server, it scrambles the database and I have to start all over again. I found one program, Lurker, which allows multiple servers in the database, but it costs $100. >and better yet receive responses, then you know they are appearing elsewhere. So far I haven't seen any responses in alt.ucp. That's why I'm worried about possible non-propagation. I see Alex is still fighting the good fight with christinA on control.newgroup and control.rmgroup! She's apparently famous for her insanity! She has several newsgroups of her own: alt.carpet.munching.bull.dyke.christina-eijkhout, alt.christina-eijkhout.needs.to.shave.her.tits >Thanks for the update. Glad to see you beck in business! Thanks! Me too! > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS AT: alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! KP is currently posting via teranews.com free news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe to this group, send an email to: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-910-1022189658-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 21:33:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NLXJ225130 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 21:33:19 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-910-1022189658-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 21:34:18 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 21:34:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 75982 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 21:34:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 21:34:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 21:34:02 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4NLWvD15528; Thu, 23 May 2002 21:32:57 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020523134517.00e06158@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:32:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 135 On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > At 03:12 PM 5/23/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: > >On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > > > >> Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 01:11:44 -0700 > >> From: Net Prophet > >It does not propagate to my ISP's servers: > > news.mindspring.com > > news.nwlink.com > > > >I checked again just now. > > Is that because they don't carry the alt.ucp newsgroup itself? Here is the report: -------------------------------------------------- Connecting to NewsHost ... Looking up news.nwlink.com news.nwlink.com Making NNTP connection to news.nwlink.com 411 no such news group Connecting to NewsHost ... Looking up news.nwlink.com news.nwlink.com Making NNTP connection to news.nwlink.com Alert!: 411 no such news group lynx: Can't access startfile news:alt.ucp -------------------------------------------------- > If so, could you ask them to add it? Whom do you ask? > Reading from their server what I post to > their server doesn't prove very much to me. > I'm worried about propagation to OTHER servers. > > >If you can SEE you messages appear (say from another server) > > I can only see ONE server with my Agent. > If I check another server, it scrambles the > database and I have to start all over again. > I found one program, Lurker, which allows > multiple servers in the database, but it costs $100. Well lynx is handy for things like this. It doesn't use a "database" nor newsrc; it just questions the news server directly. Very handy for that, plus many other thaings too. I seem to remember a Windows version. Free, of course. > >and better yet receive responses, then you know they are appearing elsewhere. > > So far I haven't seen any responses in alt.ucp. > That's why I'm worried about possible non-propagation. Non-propagation is happening very nicely! > I see Alex is still fighting the good fight with > christinA on control.newgroup and control.rmgroup! Thanks, Alex! > She's apparently famous for her insanity! > She has several newsgroups of her own: > alt.carpet.munching.bull.dyke.christina-eijkhout, > alt.christina-eijkhout.needs.to.shave.her.tits If the acronym is the problem, why not start alt.universal.conscious.practice ? abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-911-1022190703-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 21:50:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.73]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NLoi209139 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 21:50:44 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-911-1022190703-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 21:51:43 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 21:51:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 97441 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 21:51:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 21:51:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 21:51:26 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.201]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23727 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 16:51:23 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020523144736.00df4da8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 14:47:36 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP or PEE? Both? What did it? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 136 Re: [UCP-List] UCP or PEE? Both? What did it? [posted to AU and ACT]w At 07:26 PM 5/23/2002 -0000, Alexander Kopke wrote: >Hi all, > >About 7 months ago I started doing UCP. I also started on UT - urine >therapy which KP also recommends on his site. WAY COOL! >Since my grandma died I have had astma. That is about 6 years now. That would point to UCP as a factor, as your genetics did not change when she died. But it does NOT rule out urine therapy either! An additional psychological cause could easily kick in a latent or marginal physical condition. >One month ago I started noticing that it no longer matters if I take >my astma medicine or not. I still feel a bit "heavy" in the lung >region but taking the medicine doesn't help. Wonderful! >I have tested my lungs a bit and I have gone 1 week without taking my >medication. Way Cool! >Before I couldn't have survived 3 days without getting totally red in >the head and having to pull in air in a desperate manner. I once >forgot my spray so I know this. > >I don't feel totally cured... Progress is progress! >What do you think? Was it UCP or UT or both?? > >Best Wishes, > >AK I THINK *BOTH!* Asthma is obviously a physical condition, so a physical therapy is eminently logical, but it can obviously have a psychological component, which is suggested by your grandmother's death, and psychological treatment makes good sense . . . ALSO! If a disease or condition has multiple causes, multiple treatments would clearly be optimum. Perhaps UCP helped you consider UT, in addition to its many other benefits, some of which may be directly physical. I can't help comparing your progress to Homer's! I just can't see *ANY* progress in HIS condition! Of course, he's been desperately doing $pyontology all this time! One sees how that works! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS AT: alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! KP is currently posting via teranews.com free news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe to this group, send an email to: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-912-1022191642-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 22:06:24 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NM6N822841 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 22:06:23 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-912-1022191642-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 22:07:22 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 22:07:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 62605 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 22:07:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 22:07:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 22:07:20 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.201]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA30908 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 17:07:17 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020523150343.00df48f8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020523120808.00d89d50@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:03:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Crab Nebula - Neutron Star Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 137 Re: [UCP-List] Crab Nebula - Neutron Star [posted to AU and ACT] At 07:40 PM 5/23/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: >On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:08:08 -0700 > >> At 04:35 PM 5/22/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: > >> >Is there a bi-directional flow along the axis? KP: >> I believe the axial flow is basically one direction, >> but both poles should still be radiating like mad >> as the condensing flow on the intake side radiates >> some of the energy of its compression-collisions. >One direction? That's what I though at first looking at the photo. I was getting that from Rado's model, demonstrated by his basic animated gif, and also by any magnetic field. >A cosmic jet-engine. But what holds it in place? How do we know it's not moving very rapidly? >Shheesh! If that mutha breaks loose, there'll be hell to pay for that >quarter of the galaxy! Maybe it's already eaten up LOTS of systems? All that mass had to come from SOMEPLACE! >(actually, if it's holding its position in space, I would expect the >axial forces would have to precisely balance between the two poles of >the axis) Maybe someone can compute the magnitude of the gyroscopic >(whaddya call it?) inertia . . . > > ab > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org If it is moving, it would move from the outflow to the inflow, no? You could compute the acceleration from the mass of the intake/expelled gasses and their velocity, relative to the mass of the entire system. If you see it coming . . . GET OUT OF THE WAY . . . RIGHT NOW! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS AT: alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! KP is currently posting via teranews.com free news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe to this group, send an email to: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-913-1022193839-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 22:43:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NMh1821321 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 22:43:01 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-913-1022193839-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 22:44:00 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 22:43:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 34114 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 22:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 22:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 22:43:42 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4NMgck07917; Thu, 23 May 2002 22:42:38 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020523144736.00df4da8@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:42:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP or PEE? Both? What did it? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 138 On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > [posted to AU and ACT]w > > At 07:26 PM 5/23/2002 -0000, Alexander Kopke wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >About 7 months ago I started doing UCP. I also started on UT - urine > >therapy which KP also recommends on his site. > > WAY COOL! > > >Since my grandma died I have had astma. That is about 6 years now. > > That would point to UCP as a factor, as > your genetics did not change when she died. > > But it does NOT rule out urine therapy either! > > An additional psychological cause could easily > kick in a latent or marginal physical condition. I agree. > >One month ago I started noticing that it no longer matters if I take > >my astma medicine or not. I still feel a bit "heavy" in the lung > >region but taking the medicine doesn't help. > > Wonderful! > > >I have tested my lungs a bit and I have gone 1 week without taking my > >medication. > > Way Cool! > > >Before I couldn't have survived 3 days without getting totally red in > >the head and having to pull in air in a desperate manner. I once > >forgot my spray so I know this. > > > >I don't feel totally cured... > > Progress is progress! > > >What do you think? Was it UCP or UT or both?? > > > >Best Wishes, > > > >AK > > I THINK *BOTH!* > > Asthma is obviously a physical condition, It manifests a physical symptom. > so a physical therapy is eminently logical, > but it can obviously have a psychological > component, which is suggested by your > grandmother's death, and psychological > treatment makes good sense . . . ALSO! I had asthma as a child. "Allergy" was what the docs were into. My mother drug me all over town to "specialists" my arms had dual needle tracks from wrists to shoulders. They would "read" the bumps. One week I would be "allergic" to wheat, corn, beans; the next week wheat would be OK but not rice, which I had meanwhile substituted, and pretty soon corn and beans would be OK but something else would be a no-no. God knows what all this cost! When in college I read Freud, Psychopathology of Everday Life, I think was the title. I started to watch and see if I could catch what might set it off. One day in a Mexican hotel room, I nailed it. Gone forever! Not even a trace. I did get a barrel chest out of th deal, though, and can hold my breath for three minutes. There are compensations. . . > If a disease or condition has multiple causes, > multiple treatments would clearly be optimum. My present take on the subject of health is that disease originates in the spirit. If it can't manifest there it moves down into the mind. If it can't manifest there, it moves down into the body. You can chase it around the body with tricks and drugs, but the higher levels are endlessly inventive in devising new maladies for the body to experience. If you continue to practice UCP, you will eventually move far enough up-scale to catch the root cause. See if you can duplicate exactly what you were thinking on a subconscious level the moment before you experience an attack. Best Wishes, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-914-1022195260-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 23:06:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NN6gx15368 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 23:06:42 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-914-1022195260-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 23:07:40 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 23:07:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 68297 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 23:07:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 23:07:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 23:07:39 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4NN6YE02749; Thu, 23 May 2002 23:06:34 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020523150343.00df48f8@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 23:06:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Crab Nebula - Neutron Star Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 139 On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Re: [UCP-List] Crab Nebula - Neutron Star > > [posted to AU and ACT] > > At 07:40 PM 5/23/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: > >On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > > > >> Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 12:08:08 -0700 > > > >> At 04:35 PM 5/22/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: > > > >> >Is there a bi-directional flow along the axis? > > KP: > >> I believe the axial flow is basically one direction, > >> but both poles should still be radiating like mad > >> as the condensing flow on the intake side radiates > >> some of the energy of its compression-collisions. > > >One direction? That's what I though at first looking at the photo. > > I was getting that from Rado's model, > demonstrated by his basic animated gif, > and also by any magnetic field. > > >A cosmic jet-engine. But what holds it in place? > > How do we know it's not moving very rapidly? I saw no mention of that. Assumed, pending contrary evidence. > >Shheesh! If that mutha breaks loose, there'll be hell to pay for that > >quarter of the galaxy! > > Maybe it's already eaten up LOTS of systems? > > All that mass had to come from SOMEPLACE! > > >(actually, if it's holding its position in space, I would expect the > >axial forces would have to precisely balance between the two poles of > >the axis) Maybe someone can compute the magnitude of the gyroscopic > >(whaddya call it?) inertia . . . > > > > ab > > > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org > > > If it is moving, it would move from the outflow to the inflow, no? In the direction of the inflow, yes. > You could compute the acceleration from the mass of the > intake/expelled gasses and their velocity, relative to the > mass of the entire system. If you see it coming . . . > GET OUT OF THE WAY . . . RIGHT NOW! Yeah. Duck! abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-915-1022196863-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 23 23:33:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4NNXPx05506 for ; Thu, 23 May 2002 23:33:25 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-915-1022196863-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 23:34:24 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 23 May 2002 23:34:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 64958 invoked from network); 23 May 2002 23:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 May 2002 23:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.78) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 May 2002 23:34:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.129] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 May 2002 23:34:22 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 23:34:18 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Knowledge Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 140 Ok, here's a quote for y'all. I deliberately don't mention the author name because he's a rather controversial guy (anbd this passage is quite well-know anyway). I'd rather have the quote examined on its own merit :) It's interesting to see how this corresponds to the Scale. A man of knowledge is one who has followed truthfully the hardships of learning. A man who has, without rushing or without faltering, gone as far as he can in unraveling the secrets of power and knowledge. To become a man of knowledge one must challenge and defeat the four natural enemies. The first enemy of a man of knowledge is Fear. A terrible enemy-- treacherous, and difficult to overcome. It remains concealed at every turn of the way, prowling, waiting. And if the man, terrified in its presence, runs away, his enemy will have put an end to his quest. Once a man has vanquished fear, he is free from it for the rest of his life because, instead of fear, he has acquired clarity of mind which erases fear. And thus he has encountered his second enemy; Clarity. That clarity of mind, which is so hard to obtain, dispels fear, but also blinds. If the man yields to this make-believe power, he has succumbed to his second enemy and will be patient when he should rush. And he will fumble with learning until he winds up incapable of learing anything more. He must defy his clarity and use it only to see, and wait patiently and measure carefully before taking new steps; he must think, above all, that his clarity is almost a mistake. And a moment will come when he will understand that his clarity was only a point before his eyes. And thus he will have overcome his second enemy, and will arrive at a position where nothing can harm him anymore. It will be true power; the third enemy of a man of knowledge. A man at this stage hardly notices his third enemy closing in on him. And suddenly, without knowing, he will certainly have lost the battle. His enemy will have turned him into a cruel, capricious man. The man must defy his power, deliberately. He has to come to realize the power he has seemingly conquered is in reality never his. He will reach a point where everything is held in check. He will know then when and how to use his power. And thus he will have defeated his third enemy. The man will be, by then, at the end of his journey of learning, and almost without warning he will come upon the last of his enemies: Old age. This enemy is the cruelest of all, the one he won't be able to defeat completely, but only fight away. His desire to retreat will overrule all his clarity, his power, and his knowledge. But if the man sloughs off his tiredness, and lives his fate through, he can then be called a man of knowledge, if only for the brief moment when he succeeds in fighting off his last, invincible enemy. That moment of clarity, power, and knowledge is enough. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-916-1022199790-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 00:22:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4O0MBq12667 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 00:22:12 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-916-1022199790-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 00:23:10 -0000 X-Sender: justintonation@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 00:23:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 63820 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 00:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 00:23:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.86) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 00:23:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.140] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 00:23:09 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020523125154.00df0b00@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "justintonation" X-Originating-IP: 63.60.239.253 X-Yahoo-Profile: justintonation MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:23:06 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4O0MBq12667 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 141 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > > > Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help > > [posted to AU and ACT] > > > At 06:44 AM 5/23/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: > >> Thoughts? > > > >> "While doing UCP, you will see all kind of mental phenomena, > >> known variously in different disciplines as circuits, valences, > >> disorders, engrams, implants, dramatizations, attitudes, > >> compulsions, identities, incidents, computations, etc., > > > >My suggestion would to use ordinary non-clinical language to replace > >these terms. for instance: > > > >..as mechanical thoughts or rigid behavior, imitative, borrowed or > >non-authentic behavior, physical symptoms or "unexplainable" outbursts, > >rigid prejudices, mental confusions, stuck feelings, etc. > > Another option I had not thought of! > > HOW ABOUT THIS AS A SOLUTION? > "While doing UCP, you will normally see many different kinds of weird > mental phenomena, known variously in different disciplines by many > arbitrary terms, appear with a vengeance . . . and disappear again with > no fancy complex rigid process commands, no chains of earlier similar  > incidents, no long tricky assessments of what is wrong or what to do,  > no complex risky listing actions, and no Seeker attention on the Witness  > or the Process. It's simple, smooth, often easy, and incredibly effective." This is cool KP. But it was the "chains of earlier similar incidents" "listing actions that I thought would throw people. "what you mean we got to write everything down?" I would save the any comparison of UCP to other diciplines to another article all together. I think it is important to define UCP as what it is rather than what it is not. Especially for beginners. Cult victims can read your scaintology refuted articles and get a clue that way. But I think there is way too few of them to cater to individually. On a side note I am about to kick off the UCP dissemination thing on Sunday 26th. This is the day that the Dalai Lama will be in town [Sydney] and there will be thousands of people thirsty for spiritual nourishment of some kind. I have a flyer ready to distribute ! > >I'm sure Konchok will be able to improve on this. . . > > My tentative solution is above. I already put it up at the web site. > > Is this the ONLY paragraph causing this confusion? I think so. I just read the rest of it then there is a section in bumps in the road where the natter and protest etc are used maybe that could use some editing. It is easy enough to define those words though, so either way is fine with me. Justin > >I agree, on the basis of several attempts to introduce friends and > >family to UCP, there is much too much material and much too much jargon > >FOR THEM. > > OK. > > >The feedback I have got is: > > > >1) Too many words. > > I took some out. > > Is that enough? > > It is impossible to make something that > everyone will like. Some people are > looking for help. Others are looking for > something to object to. > > >2) It's scientology in drag. No thanks! > > IF you could get them to DO UCP > and COMPARE UCP with $pyontology, > that would go away soon . . . BUT . . . it is really hard. Some people get one whiff of scientology and are gone so to speak. But it is impotant not to hide the roots of UCP. but I think N-LIGHTENMENT NOW is one article that should try and eliminate any and all jargon. Justin > >If the line is to go mainstream, some more gentle gradient must be > >devised. > > I wrote N-LIGHTENMENT NOW! with the > specific intention of removing $pyontology > jargon and making it suitable for anyone. > > Perhaps it needs more effort! > > >I would suggest placing a link to Konchok's site with a note to the > >effect that ex-scientology members may need extra help in getting > >oriented, and if this is your case, you might look here. > > > > abner > > Best Wishes, > > WE'LCOME TO > *ACTUALLITY!* > > THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR > ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! > > RESET YOUR SELF! > REBOOT YOUR MIND! > RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS > REINSTALL RATIONALITY > DEBUG AND UPGRADE > YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING > SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! > N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* > > YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY > FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. > > FIND OUT HOW > TO *FIND OUT!* > > WHAT YOU DO > IS UP TO YOU! > > THE WAY > TO *SEE* > *IS* UCP! > > *DO* UCP > AND SEE! > > > O > --- ) > \ > > > Konchok Penday > > Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER > Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm > Formulator and Disseminator of the > Universal Conscious Practice: > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev > Technical hExcellence Award :-) > Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: > http://net-prophet.net/gc/ > Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: > http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ > REvolutionary Architectural System: > http://net-prophet.net/subs/ > Better Banjo Bureau > http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ > Cottage Industries > http://net-prophet.net/ci/ > > > ########################################### > > N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! > WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! > YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > > *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! > *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! > > YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! > USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! > > UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS > SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, > ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! > > ########################################### > > > Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@n... via > paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! > > GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net > RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! > EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! > UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! > > UCP NEWS AT: alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology > Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm > ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! > KP is currently posting via teranews.com free news. > > UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > > "UCP EMAIL LIST" > To subscribe to this group, send an email to: > ucplist-subscribe@y... > > UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: > http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-918-1022201443-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 00:49:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4O0njq06726 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 00:49:45 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-918-1022201443-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 00:50:44 -0000 X-Sender: justintonation@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 00:50:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 96677 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 00:50:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 00:50:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.69) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 00:50:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.130] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 00:50:42 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "justintonation" X-Originating-IP: 63.60.239.253 X-Yahoo-Profile: justintonation MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:50:40 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: Knowledge Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 143 --- In ucplist@y..., "punkfloyd.rm" wrote: > Ok, here's a quote for y'all. I deliberately don't mention the author > name because he's a rather controversial guy (anbd this passage is > quite well-know anyway). I'd rather have the quote examined on its > own merit :) > > It's interesting to see how this corresponds to the Scale. > > > A man of knowledge is one who has followed truthfully the hardships > of learning. A man who has, without rushing or without faltering, > gone as far as he can in unraveling the secrets of power and > knowledge. To become a man of knowledge one must challenge and defeat > the four natural enemies. > > The first enemy of a man of knowledge is Fear. A terrible enemy-- > treacherous, and difficult to overcome. It remains concealed at every > turn of the way, prowling, waiting. And if the man, terrified in its > presence, runs away, his enemy will have put an end to his quest. > Once a man has vanquished fear, he is free from it for the rest of > his life because, instead of fear, he has acquired clarity of mind > which erases fear. > > And thus he has encountered his second enemy; Clarity. That clarity > of mind, which is so hard to obtain, dispels fear, but also blinds. > If the man yields to this make-believe power, he has succumbed to his > second enemy and will be patient when he should rush. And he will > fumble with learning until he winds up incapable of learing anything > more. > > He must defy his clarity and use it only to see, and wait patiently > and measure carefully before taking new steps; he must think, above > all, that his clarity is almost a mistake. And a moment will come > when he will understand that his clarity was only a point before his > eyes. And thus he will have overcome his second enemy, and will > arrive at a position where nothing can harm him anymore. It will be > true power; the third enemy of a man of knowledge. > > A man at this stage hardly notices his third enemy closing in on him. > And suddenly, without knowing, he will certainly have lost the > battle. His enemy will have turned him into a cruel, capricious man. > The man must defy his power, deliberately. He has to come to realize > the power he has seemingly conquered is in reality never his. He will > reach a point where everything is held in check. He will know then > when and how to use his power. And thus he will have defeated his > third enemy. > > The man will be, by then, at the end of his journey of learning, and > almost without warning he will come upon the last of his enemies: Old > age. This enemy is the cruelest of all, the one he won't be able to > defeat completely, but only fight away. His desire to retreat will > overrule all his clarity, his power, and his knowledge. But if the > man sloughs off his tiredness, and lives his fate through, he can > then be called a man of knowledge, if only for the brief moment when > he succeeds in fighting off his last, invincible enemy. That moment > of clarity, power, and knowledge is enough. > > Interesting. i cannot really see where it would fit o the scale perhaps on the know to mystery scale? Don Juan believes that there is no such thing as an immortal spirit. Someone who beleived in the immortality of the spirit would not worry about old age. Except there is some evidence to believe that you do take steps backwards when you die but you do not have to start from the beginning again so you could theoretically achieve enlightenment over several lifetimes. Thanks for posting that, Justin > Best, > Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-919-1022202505-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 01:07:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4O17TL23448 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 01:07:29 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-919-1022202505-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 01:08:28 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 01:08:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 14307 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 01:08:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 01:08:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 01:08:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.153] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 01:08:22 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.206.110 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 01:08:22 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: Knowledge Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 144 --- In ucplist@y..., "justintonation" wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., "punkfloyd.rm" wrote: > > Interesting. i cannot really see where it would fit o the scale > perhaps on the know to mystery scale? My version: -4 to 0 - Fear 0 to +4 - Clarity +4 to (around)+10 - Power +10 - up - old age(?) > Don Juan believes that > there is no such thing as an immortal spirit. I don't think there's a definite statement on that issue. There is no immortal ego, that's for sure. Don Juan stresses that many times and I agree 100%. > Someone who > beleived in the immortality of the spirit would not worry about old > age. Except there is some evidence to believe that you do take > steps backwards when you die but you do not have to start from > the beginning again so you could theoretically achieve > enlightenment over several lifetimes. Perhaps. I was really more interested in the description of the first three enemies. It seems to parallel the attitudes of people I see in Clearing and UCP very well. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-920-1022204757-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 01:44:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4O1iwL04137 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 01:44:58 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-920-1022204757-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 01:45:57 -0000 X-Sender: justintonation@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 01:45:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 32699 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 01:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 01:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 01:45:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.135] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 01:45:55 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "justintonation" X-Originating-IP: 63.12.2.63 X-Yahoo-Profile: justintonation MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 01:45:53 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: Knowledge Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 145 --- In ucplist@y..., "punkfloyd.rm" wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., "justintonation" wrote: > > --- In ucplist@y..., "punkfloyd.rm" wrote: > > > > > Interesting. i cannot really see where it would fit o the scale > > perhaps on the know to mystery scale? > > My version: > > -4 to 0 - Fear > 0 to +4 - Clarity > +4 to (around)+10 - Power > +10 - up - old age(?) I agree with the first three. They all seem to be awareness or ability levels in themselves aswell as being enemies or awarenesses that you have to progress beyond.But old age only seems to be an enemy and not really and awareness level. True the breakdown of the body does seem to affect the spirits ability to operate effectively. But the awareness level of the being is still IMO undiminished by old age and the decay of the body. Unless of course the being is compulsively identifying withth e body as themselves. This would make the spirit suffer tremendous loss and cause a self imposed attenuation of awareness. Justin > > Don Juan believes that > > there is no such thing as an immortal spirit. > I don't think there's a definite statement on that issue. There is no > immortal ego, that's for sure. Don Juan stresses that many times and > I agree 100%. > > > Someone who > > beleived in the immortality of the spirit would not worry about old > > age. Except there is some evidence to believe that you do take > > steps backwards when you die but you do not have to start from > > the beginning again so you could theoretically achieve > > enlightenment over several lifetimes. > > Perhaps. I was really more interested in the description of the first > three enemies. It seems to parallel the attitudes of people I see in > Clearing and UCP very well. > > Best, > Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-921-1022209551-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 03:04:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4O34qO15747 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 03:04:52 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-921-1022209551-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 03:05:51 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 03:05:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 60581 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 03:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 03:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.162) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 03:05:35 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 May 2002 20:05:35 -0700 Received: from 130.195.196.201 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 May 2002 03:05:35 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2002 03:05:35.0474 (UTC) FILETIME=[DFB93D20:01C202CF] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [130.195.196.201] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 03:05:35 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 146 >From: Net Prophet >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:45:17 -0700 >I see Alex is still fighting the good fight with >christinA on control.newgroup and control.rmgroup! > >She's apparently famous for her insanity! >She has several newsgroups of her own: >alt.carpet.munching.bull.dyke.christina-eijkhout, I strenuously object at the above insult to carpet-munching bull-dykes everywhere, comparing them with this madwoman. ;-) ondine p.s. Abba - the operative word is "dull". _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-922-1022210442-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 03:19:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4O3JjY25043 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 03:19:45 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-922-1022210442-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 03:20:43 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 03:20:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 51554 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 03:20:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 03:20:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.138) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 03:20:26 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 23 May 2002 20:20:26 -0700 Received: from 130.195.196.201 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 May 2002 03:20:25 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 May 2002 03:20:26.0197 (UTC) FILETIME=[F2A2C850:01C202D1] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [130.195.196.201] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 03:20:25 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Physical manifestations of spiritual illness Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: FA X-Keywords: X-UID: 147 >From: Abba Noor >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:42:38 +0000 (UTC) >If you continue to practice UCP, you will eventually move far enough >up-scale to catch the root cause. See if you can duplicate exactly what >you were thinking on a subconscious level the moment before you >experience an attack. Hmmm... my partner often gets asthmatic when we're making love. Should I be worried? ondine _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-923-1022224438-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 07:14:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4O7E4o20071 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 07:14:04 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-923-1022224438-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 07:13:59 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 07:13:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 4184 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 07:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 07:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 07:13:57 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.186]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA02570 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 02:13:55 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020524001019.00df6760@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020523134517.00e06158@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:10:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 148 At 09:32 PM 5/23/2002 +0000, you wrote: >On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > >> At 03:12 PM 5/23/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: >> >On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: >> > >> >> Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 01:11:44 -0700 >> >> From: Net Prophet > >> >It does not propagate to my ISP's servers: >> > news.mindspring.com >> > news.nwlink.com >> > >> >I checked again just now. >> >> Is that because they don't carry the alt.ucp newsgroup itself? >Here is the report: >-------------------------------------------------- >Connecting to NewsHost ... >Looking up news.nwlink.com >news.nwlink.com >Making NNTP connection to news.nwlink.com >411 no such news group >Connecting to NewsHost ... >Looking up news.nwlink.com >news.nwlink.com >Making NNTP connection to news.nwlink.com >Alert!: 411 no such news group > >lynx: Can't access startfile news:alt.ucp >-------------------------------------------------- >> If so, could you ask them to add it? > >Whom do you ask? Whoever is tech support at your ISP. Just tell them you want a news group they don't carry yet. They just add it to their feed and you can then subscribe. >> Reading from their server what I post to >> their server doesn't prove very much to me. >> I'm worried about propagation to OTHER servers. >> >> >If you can SEE you messages appear (say from another server) >> >> I can only see ONE server with my Agent. >> If I check another server, it scrambles the >> database and I have to start all over again. > >> I found one program, Lurker, which allows >> multiple servers in the database, but it costs $100. > >Well lynx is handy for things like this. It doesn't use a "database" nor >newsrc; it just questions the news server directly. Very handy for that, >plus many other thaings too. I seem to remember a Windows version. Free, >of course. 30 messages at a time sounds pretty useless, and where do you store and access them all? I've got my agent working OK again. It's just a nightmare when I have to change servers. >> >and better yet receive responses, then you know they are appearing elsewhere. >> >> So far I haven't seen any responses in alt.ucp. >> That's why I'm worried about possible non-propagation. >Non-propagation is happening very nicely! You have a cheerful perspective! >> I see Alex is still fighting the good fight with >> christinA on control.newgroup and control.rmgroup! > >Thanks, Alex! Yes! >> She's apparently famous for her insanity! >> She has several newsgroups of her own: >> alt.carpet.munching.bull.dyke.christina-eijkhout, >> alt.christina-eijkhout.needs.to.shave.her.tits > >If the acronym is the problem, why not start > > alt.universal.conscious.practice > ? > > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org That would eliminate the acronym objection, but it still fails christinA's fanatical NO NEW second level domain objection, as there are now no alt.universal.X groups. Also, the naming convention would prefer alt.universal-conscious-practice, keeping it all on one domain. That would be good for people searching the groups list, but awful for writing, signs, billboards, etc. We ARE making progress with alt.ucp, but it's taking a while to spread around. I don't see christinA rmgrouping it today, maybe she's got other groups to cancel. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-924-1022227109-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 07:58:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4O7wYo17326 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 07:58:35 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-924-1022227109-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 07:58:29 -0000 X-Sender: justintonation@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 07:58:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 19721 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 07:57:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 07:57:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.78) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 07:57:22 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.165] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 07:57:22 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "justintonation" X-Originating-IP: 63.60.241.23 X-Yahoo-Profile: justintonation MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 07:57:22 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] N-LIGHTENMENT NOW ! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 149 I just read the edit that KP has done on N-LGHTENMENT-NOW. KP this is good! It will be perfect for newbies. Congratualtions on the good work. Justin ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-925-1022227615-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 08:07:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4O872C23143 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 08:07:02 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-925-1022227615-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 08:06:56 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 08:06:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 96781 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 08:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 08:06:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 08:06:00 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.186]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA08492 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 03:05:57 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020524010222.00df6760@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020523125154.00df0b00@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 01:02:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 150 >> Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help >> >> [posted to AU and ACT] .....big snips........... Justin: >This is cool KP. But it was the "chains of earlier similar >incidents" "listing actions that I thought would throw people. >"what you mean we got to write everything down?" > >I would save the any comparison of UCP to other diciplines to >another article all together. I think it is important to define UCP as >what it is rather than what it is not. Especially for beginners. Cult >victims can read your scaintology refuted articles and get a clue >that way. But I think there is way too few of them to cater to >individually. I did another edit on the paragraphs you found awkward and posted it to the web site. >On a side note I am about to kick off the UCP dissemination >thing on Sunday 26th. This is the day that the Dalai Lama will be >in town [Sydney] and there will be thousands of people thirsty for >spiritual nourishment of some kind. I have a flyer ready to >distribute ! Way Cool! >> >I'm sure Konchok will be able to improve on this. . . >> >> My tentative solution is above. I already put it up at the web >site. >> >> Is this the ONLY paragraph causing this confusion? > >I think so. I just read the rest of it then there is a section in >bumps in the road where the natter and protest etc are used >maybe that could use some editing. It is easy enough to define >those words though, so either way is fine with me. I changed that one too. >Justin > >> >I agree, on the basis of several attempts to introduce friends >and >> >family to UCP, there is much too much material and much too >much jargon >> >FOR THEM. >> >> OK. >> >> >The feedback I have got is: >> > >> >1) Too many words. >> >> I took some out. >> >> Is that enough? >> >> It is impossible to make something that >> everyone will like. Some people are >> looking for help. Others are looking for >> something to object to. >> >> >2) It's scientology in drag. No thanks! >> >> IF you could get them to DO UCP >> and COMPARE UCP with $pyontology, >> that would go away soon . . . BUT . . . > >it is really hard. Some people get one whiff of scientology and >are gone so to speak. But it is impotant not to hide the roots of >UCP. but I think N-LIGHTENMENT NOW is one article that >should try and eliminate any and all jargon. > >Justin It's amazing how pervasive the cult-speak is! KP .....snips...... ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-926-1022235131-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 10:12:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OACKn07823 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 10:12:21 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-926-1022235131-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 10:12:12 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 10:12:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 64002 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 10:06:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 10:06:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 10:06:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.141] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 10:06:51 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020523144736.00df4da8@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:06:49 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP or PEE? Both? What did it? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 151 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > > > Re: [UCP-List] UCP or PEE? Both? What did it? > > [posted to AU and ACT]w > > At 07:26 PM 5/23/2002 -0000, Alexander Kopke wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >About 7 months ago I started doing UCP. I also started on UT - urine > >therapy which KP also recommends on his site. > > WAY COOL! > > >Since my grandma died I have had astma. That is about 6 years now. > > That would point to UCP as a factor, as > your genetics did not change when she died. > > But it does NOT rule out urine therapy either! > > An additional psychological cause could easily > kick in a latent or marginal physical condition. > > >One month ago I started noticing that it no longer matters if I take > >my astma medicine or not. I still feel a bit "heavy" in the lung > >region but taking the medicine doesn't help. > > Wonderful! > > >I have tested my lungs a bit and I have gone 1 week without taking my > >medication. > > Way Cool! > > >Before I couldn't have survived 3 days without getting totally red in > >the head and having to pull in air in a desperate manner. I once > >forgot my spray so I know this. > > > >I don't feel totally cured... > > Progress is progress! Yes, and of course the lungs need to recover their former abilities. Before as a consequence of asthma I couldn't run for more that 2 minutes before feeling the iron belt on my chest forcing me to stop. Now it just feels like I'm in a bad shape and that I need to work out 80) But of course I will continue UT as well as UCP 80) Thanks KP! I still can't believe it but there it is. When I told my friends/family/others that I had gotten asthma then said that I should learn to live with it and that I would never get rid of it Well... Be sure to tune into the next episode: KP WAS RIGHT AGAIN. 80) Best Wishes, AK > >What do you think? Was it UCP or UT or both?? > > > >Best Wishes, > > > >AK > > I THINK *BOTH!* > > Asthma is obviously a physical condition, > so a physical therapy is eminently logical, > but it can obviously have a psychological > component, which is suggested by your > grandmother's death, and psychological > treatment makes good sense . . . ALSO! > > If a disease or condition has multiple causes, > multiple treatments would clearly be optimum. > > Perhaps UCP helped you consider UT, > in addition to its many other benefits, > some of which may be directly physical. > > I can't help comparing your progress to Homer's! > > I just can't see *ANY* progress in HIS condition! > > Of course, he's been desperately > doing $pyontology all this time! > > One sees how that works! > > Best Wishes, > > WE'LCOME TO > *ACTUALLITY!* > > THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR > ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! > > RESET YOUR SELF! > REBOOT YOUR MIND! > RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS > REINSTALL RATIONALITY > DEBUG AND UPGRADE > YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING > SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! > N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* > > YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY > FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. > > FIND OUT HOW > TO *FIND OUT!* > > WHAT YOU DO > IS UP TO YOU! > > THE WAY > TO *SEE* > *IS* UCP! > > *DO* UCP > AND SEE! > > > O > --- ) > \ > > > Konchok Penday > > Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER > Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm > Formulator and Disseminator of the > Universal Conscious Practice: > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev > Technical hExcellence Award :-) > Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: > http://net-prophet.net/gc/ > Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: > http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ > REvolutionary Architectural System: > http://net-prophet.net/subs/ > Better Banjo Bureau > http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ > Cottage Industries > http://net-prophet.net/ci/ > > > ########################################### > > N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! > WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! > YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > > *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! > *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! > > YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! > USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! > > UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS > SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, > ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! > > ########################################### > > > Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@n... via > paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! > > GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net > RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! > EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! > UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! > > UCP NEWS AT: alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology > Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm > ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! > KP is currently posting via teranews.com free news. > > UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > > "UCP EMAIL LIST" > To subscribe to this group, send an email to: > ucplist-subscribe@y... > > UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: > http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-927-1022235711-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 10:22:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OAMAn12846 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 10:22:11 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-927-1022235711-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 10:21:53 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 10:21:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 89662 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 10:19:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 10:19:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 10:19:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.178] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 10:19:12 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:19:12 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP or PEE? Both? What did it? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 152 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > > > [posted to AU and ACT]w > > > > At 07:26 PM 5/23/2002 -0000, Alexander Kopke wrote: > > >Hi all, > > > > > >About 7 months ago I started doing UCP. I also started on UT - urine > > >therapy which KP also recommends on his site. > > > > WAY COOL! > > > > >Since my grandma died I have had astma. That is about 6 years now. > > > > That would point to UCP as a factor, as > > your genetics did not change when she died. > > > > But it does NOT rule out urine therapy either! > > > > An additional psychological cause could easily > > kick in a latent or marginal physical condition. > > I agree. > > > >One month ago I started noticing that it no longer matters if I take > > >my astma medicine or not. I still feel a bit "heavy" in the lung > > >region but taking the medicine doesn't help. > > > > Wonderful! > > > > >I have tested my lungs a bit and I have gone 1 week without taking my > > >medication. > > > > Way Cool! > > > > >Before I couldn't have survived 3 days without getting totally red in > > >the head and having to pull in air in a desperate manner. I once > > >forgot my spray so I know this. > > > > > >I don't feel totally cured... > > > > Progress is progress! > > > > >What do you think? Was it UCP or UT or both?? > > > > > >Best Wishes, > > > > > >AK > > > > I THINK *BOTH!* > > > > Asthma is obviously a physical condition, > > It manifests a physical symptom. > > > so a physical therapy is eminently logical, > > but it can obviously have a psychological > > component, which is suggested by your > > grandmother's death, and psychological > > treatment makes good sense . . . ALSO! > > I had asthma as a child. "Allergy" was what the docs were into. > My mother drug me all over town to "specialists" my arms had dual needle > tracks from wrists to shoulders. They would "read" the bumps. One week I > would be "allergic" to wheat, corn, beans; the next week wheat would be > OK but not rice, which I had meanwhile substituted, and pretty soon corn > and beans would be OK but something else would be a no-no. God knows > what all this cost! > > When in college I read Freud, Psychopathology of Everday Life, I think > was the title. I started to watch and see if I could catch what might > set it off. One day in a Mexican hotel room, I nailed it. Gone forever! > Not even a trace. I did get a barrel chest out of th deal, though, and > can hold my breath for three minutes. > > There are compensations. . . > > > If a disease or condition has multiple causes, > > multiple treatments would clearly be optimum. > > My present take on the subject of health is that disease originates in > the spirit. If it can't manifest there it moves down into the mind. If > it can't manifest there, it moves down into the body. You can chase it > around the body with tricks and drugs, but the higher levels are > endlessly inventive in devising new maladies for the body to experience. Hmmm, this sounds like the explaination I got from a Kinesiologian, I don't know the right spelling in english. However he wanted about 50 bux/hour and I couldn't afford that at that time. Now I can afford it, thanks to UCP and me, but why should I when I, as it seems, can handle it with UCP~UT? > If you continue to practice UCP, you will eventually move far enough > up-scale to catch the root cause. See if you can duplicate exactly what > you were thinking on a subconscious level the moment before you > experience an attack. Great. Thanks for your comment! > Best Wishes, > > abner > > abner@s... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) BW, AK ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-928-1022237412-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 10:50:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OAoIn28857 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 10:50:18 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-928-1022237412-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 10:50:13 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 10:50:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 21810 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 10:50:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 10:50:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 10:50:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.177] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 10:50:11 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020524001019.00df6760@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:50:11 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 153 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > At 09:32 PM 5/23/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > > > >> At 03:12 PM 5/23/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: > >> >On Thu, 23 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > >> > > >> >> Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 01:11:44 -0700 > >> >> From: Net Prophet > > > >> >It does not propagate to my ISP's servers: > >> > news.mindspring.com > >> > news.nwlink.com > >> > > >> >I checked again just now. > >> > >> Is that because they don't carry the alt.ucp newsgroup itself? > >Here is the report: > >-------------------------------------------------- > >Connecting to NewsHost ... > >Looking up news.nwlink.com > >news.nwlink.com > >Making NNTP connection to news.nwlink.com > >411 no such news group > >Connecting to NewsHost ... > >Looking up news.nwlink.com > >news.nwlink.com > >Making NNTP connection to news.nwlink.com > >Alert!: 411 no such news group > > > >lynx: Can't access startfile news:alt.ucp > >-------------------------------------------------- > >> If so, could you ask them to add it? > > > >Whom do you ask? > > Whoever is tech support at your ISP. > Just tell them you want a news group they don't carry yet. > They just add it to their feed and you can then subscribe. > > >> Reading from their server what I post to > >> their server doesn't prove very much to me. > >> I'm worried about propagation to OTHER servers. > >> > >> >If you can SEE you messages appear (say from another server) > >> > >> I can only see ONE server with my Agent. > >> If I check another server, it scrambles the > >> database and I have to start all over again. > > > >> I found one program, Lurker, which allows > >> multiple servers in the database, but it costs $100. > > > >Well lynx is handy for things like this. It doesn't use a "database" nor > >newsrc; it just questions the news server directly. Very handy for that, > >plus many other thaings too. I seem to remember a Windows version. Free, > >of course. > > 30 messages at a time sounds pretty useless, > and where do you store and access them all? > I've got my agent working OK again. It's just > a nightmare when I have to change servers. There is a program called Hamster which I have desperately trying to understand and make it work. Hamster is your own private news server for your news reader. The good thing is that you can add more news servers to Hamster. So you install Hamster, configure it(easy) and access the your server (hamster) with the news server name 127.0.0.1 and the user name admin and a password. All this is very easy but I haven't yet been able to allow others to access ucp.ath.cx 80( But Hamster is really great if you have Agent because Agent only can access one server at the time. With Hamster this will be history. Oh, Hamster is by the way free... may the spirit of internet live long and prosper 80) BW, AK > >> >and better yet receive responses, then you know they are appearing > elsewhere. > >> > >> So far I haven't seen any responses in alt.ucp. > >> That's why I'm worried about possible non-propagation. > > >Non-propagation is happening very nicely! > > You have a cheerful perspective! > > >> I see Alex is still fighting the good fight with > >> christinA on control.newgroup and control.rmgroup! > > > >Thanks, Alex! > > Yes! > > >> She's apparently famous for her insanity! > >> She has several newsgroups of her own: > >> alt.carpet.munching.bull.dyke.christina-eijkhout, > >> alt.christina-eijkhout.needs.to.shave.her.tits > > > >If the acronym is the problem, why not start > > > > alt.universal.conscious.practice > > ? > > > > abner > > > >abner@s... > > That would eliminate the acronym objection, > but it still fails christinA's fanatical NO NEW > second level domain objection, as there are > now no alt.universal.X groups. Also, the > naming convention would prefer > alt.universal-conscious-practice, keeping > it all on one domain. That would be good > for people searching the groups list, but > awful for writing, signs, billboards, etc. > > We ARE making progress with alt.ucp, > but it's taking a while to spread around. > > I don't see christinA rmgrouping it today, > maybe she's got other groups to cancel. > > > KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-929-1022246497-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 13:21:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4ODLhD28194 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 13:21:43 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-929-1022246497-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 13:21:37 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 13:21:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 73224 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 13:04:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 13:04:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 13:04:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.142] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 13:04:19 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 13:04:18 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] ucp.ath.cx should really really work now 80) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 154 Hi all, Today I've been playing around with Hamster... a free program which should act as a news server. You can access newsgroups that exist already and create groups that do not exist on other servers. You can create accounts for others to enjoy this server and you can control what they are doing if you really want to...(?) as an admin. All I want is for others to have access to alt.ucp. That isn't too much to ask for I think but, sinister music please, dark forces have gathered to block this intention. The struggle has been a long one... but 80) successsssssssssss!! 80) I hope. news server name: ucp.ath.cx user name: KP password: KP This time it really really should work and if not... I'll be very sad 80( The downside is that I don't have a cellar for my computer so I'll have to shut it down when I sleep or when on holiday. If this does work and people are up to it then I'll make a home site where it will be notified if online or off-line. Of course this only a temperary thing til alt.ucp propagates. 'sigh' In Denmark the time is now 15.00 and I'll leave this one on til about 22.00. That should be about ehmm... 7 hours 80) Best Wishes, AK ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-930-1022253914-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 15:25:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OFPLn24067 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 15:25:21 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-930-1022253914-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 15:25:14 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 15:25:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 72433 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 15:25:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 15:25:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 15:25:13 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4OFPCv15334; Fri, 24 May 2002 15:25:12 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020524001019.00df6760@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:25:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 155 On Fri, 24 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:10:19 -0700 > From: Net Prophet > >Making NNTP connection to news.nwlink.com > >Alert!: 411 no such news group > > > >lynx: Can't access startfile news:alt.ucp > >-------------------------------------------------- > >> If so, could you ask them to add it? > > > >Whom do you ask? > > Whoever is tech support at your ISP. > Just tell them you want a news group they don't carry yet. > They just add it to their feed and you can then subscribe. > > >Well lynx is handy for things like this. It doesn't use a "database" nor > >newsrc; it just questions the news server directly. Very handy for that, > >plus many other thaings too. I seem to remember a Windows version. Free, > >of course. > > 30 messages at a time sounds pretty useless, Right tool for right job. Unix philosophy. ;) > and where do you store and access them all? Save to local file, or print, or e-mail. > I've got my agent working OK again. It's just > a nightmare when I have to change servers. Avoid the nightmare: lynx for that job. ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-931-1022256583-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 16:11:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OGB4x08421 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 16:11:04 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-931-1022256583-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 16:10:58 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 16:09:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 33069 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 16:09:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 16:09:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 16:09:42 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.153] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 16:09:37 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:09:36 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 156 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Fri, 24 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:10:19 -0700 > > From: Net Prophet > > > >Making NNTP connection to news.nwlink.com > > >Alert!: 411 no such news group > > > > > >lynx: Can't access startfile news:alt.ucp > > >-------------------------------------------------- > > >> If so, could you ask them to add it? > > > > > >Whom do you ask? > > > > Whoever is tech support at your ISP. > > Just tell them you want a news group they don't carry yet. > > They just add it to their feed and you can then subscribe. > > > > >Well lynx is handy for things like this. It doesn't use a "database" nor > > >newsrc; it just questions the news server directly. Very handy for that, > > >plus many other thaings too. I seem to remember a Windows version. Free, > > >of course. > > > > 30 messages at a time sounds pretty useless, > > Right tool for right job. Unix philosophy. ;) > > > and where do you store and access them all? > > Save to local file, or print, or e-mail. > > > I've got my agent working OK again. It's just > > a nightmare when I have to change servers. > > Avoid the nightmare: lynx for that job. One has to get used to it. It's a bit unix alike... like when I tried out the sdf.lonestar.org. It works in a similar way. Tell me. Why do you use lynx. The cons are obvious but there must be pros too... tell me about it. 80) > ab > > abner@s... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) (08 BW, AK ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-932-1022264204-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 18:16:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OIGnu23462 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 18:16:49 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-932-1022264204-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 18:16:44 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 18:16:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 14704 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 17:58:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 17:58:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 17:58:04 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.184]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19811 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 12:58:01 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020524105426.00e40ad0@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:54:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ucp.ath.cx should really really work now 80) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 157 Re: [UCP-List] ucp.ath.cx should really really work now 80) Alexander Kopke: >Hi all, > >Today I've been playing around with Hamster... a free program which >should act as a news server. You can access newsgroups that exist >already and create groups that do not exist on other servers. > >You can create accounts for others to enjoy this server and you can >control what they are doing if you really want to...(?) as an admin. > >All I want is for others to have access to alt.ucp. That isn't too >much to ask for I think but, sinister music please, dark forces have >gathered to block this intention. YOU are the charge of the N-lightenment brigade! >The struggle has been a long one... but 80) successsssssssssss!! 80) WAY COOL! >I hope. > >news server name: ucp.ath.cx >user name: KP >password: KP Funny! And easy to remember too! :-) >This time it really really should work and if not... I'll be very sad >80( > >The downside is that I don't have a cellar for my computer so I'll >have to shut it down when I sleep or when on holiday. > >If this does work and people are up to it then I'll make a home site >where it will be notified if online or off-line. > >Of course this only a temperary thing til alt.ucp propagates. 'sigh' ================================ alt.ucp seems to have started propagating! I see both your post and punkfloyd's reply! ================================ >In Denmark the time is now 15.00 and I'll leave this one on til about >22.00. That should be about ehmm... 7 hours 80) > >Best Wishes, > >AK Thanks a heap! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS AT: alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! KP is currently posting via teranews.com free news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe to this group, send an email to: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-933-1022266999-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 19:03:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OJ3Pu11003 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 19:03:25 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-933-1022266999-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 19:03:20 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 19:03:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 23694 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 18:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 18:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 18:44:36 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.184]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA30014 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 13:44:34 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020524114050.00e01e50@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 11:40:50 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP NOW PROPAGATING! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 158 ALT.UCP NOW PROPAGATING! Alex Buksdorf seems to have *WON* the battle for alt.ucp! christinA eijkhout has NOT rmgrouped alt.ucp for several days now! She has SO many other groups to rmgroup, we have apparently fallen down her list of psychOTic MUST BE STOPPED priorities! I'm starting to see alt.ucp messages from other servers showing up on teranews.com! It might still need an occasional booster, but ALT.UCP *IS* WORKING . . . RIGHT NOW! We EXPECTED there would be some flak! There *WAS* some flak! =============== WAY TO GO ALEX! =============== Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ ALT.UCP and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-934-1022267511-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 19:11:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OJBvv18483 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 19:11:57 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-934-1022267511-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 19:11:52 -0000 X-Sender: Dn6246@aol.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 19:11:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 58178 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 19:11:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 19:11:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-d09.mx.aol.com) (205.188.157.41) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 19:11:49 -0000 Received: from Dn6246@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.4c.bec7354 (24898) for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 15:11:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4c.bec7354.2a1fea64@aol.com> To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 X-eGroups-From: Dn6246@aol.com From: dn6246@myrealbox.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:11:32 EDT Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Archive 2001-2002 uploaded to UCP-ListFiles section Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 159 Hi KP and All, Sorry KP for editing your posts, of course you are right completely, but I started archiving a long time ago for my own purpouses and didn't intend to publish it. It was already in this edited form and I didn't save the original posts, the fact that I now regret. Now when UCP-List came around and especially when Justin desided to write a UCP book, I thought that publishing the archive would be helpful. Anyway, I think to have this archive is better than no archive. The main bodies of the posts are intact, only signatures are missing. In order to make it right, I need to go to Google Usenet archives and start from scratch, which will take LOTS of time. I don't know if and when I can get to it. Of course from now on I'll be archiving in full. For now, what do you think I should do with this archive: 1) leave it as it is? 2) take it down? 3) rename as "Quotes from UCP discussions" or smth similar? Other suggestions? See also comments below. Net Prophet wrote: > > [second reply by KP] > > At 04:50 PM 5/14/2002 -0000, Alex Buksdorf wrote: > >Hello All, > > > >I finally uploaded long promised UCP Archive to > >the UCP-List File section, so far only for > >2001 & 2002 (Jan-Apr). > > > >I'm still working on 1999 & 2000. > > > >I'm gonna update it every month. > > > >I also uploaded the complete TechTalks Series > >(some are missing on the UCP websight). > > > >UCP Archive is compressed into a number of zip-files. > > > >Here is the Readme file included in each zip-file: > > > >===================================================================== > > > > READ THIS FIRST: > > > >UCP Archive includes many posts on > >the subject of UCP from the Usenet newsgroup > >alt.clearing.technology (ACT) from 1999 to > >present (and now also from UCP-List and alt.ucp). > > > >It contains a wealth of UCP discussions which > >clarify many UCP points, success stories, > >session reports, UCP news, etc. > > > >You can find UCP Archive at the UCP-List > >Files Section: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > > > >It consists of a number of zipped files, which > >you can download to your hard drive, unzip > >to a folder by any of zip-unzip programs like > >Winzip and read off-line. > > > >The posts are arranged in chronological order. > > > >Names of the files containing posts has the > >following structure: > > > >YYYY-MM-DD HH-MM , > > > >where > >YYYY-MM-DD - date of the post, > >HH-MM - time of the post (GMT), > > - full or partial post subject. > > > > > >In order to make UCP Archive more compact and to > >avoid redandencies I did the following: > > Dear Alex: > > I am STILL *THRILLED* that you have archived my posts, > but upon reconsideration I have STRONG disagreement with > your editing of my posts. I *DO NOT* WRITE TO BE MORE > COMPACT. I WRITE TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE TO > SAY. IT TAKES EXACTLY AS MANY WORDS AS I USE. > > I DO NOT WRITE to avoid redundancies. That is YOUR purpose. Yes, it was, when I was archiving just for myself. > >1) Since majority of the posts are by Konchok Penday (KP) > >and his signature is pretty long, I excluded it from > >his posts. You can see KP's current signature at > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/UCP%20Archive/KP%27s% > >20Signature > > THIS IS ALTER-IS/SUBSTITUE/LIABILITY. > > I *OBJECT* to having my posts edited. > > MY SIG IS THE MOST IMPORTANT > PART OF EVERY POST I WRITE. > > My continuously changing sig file > IS PART OF EVERY POST. > > It's a SIGnificant part of the history. > > My old sigs are *NOT* EQUAL to my new sigs. > > DELETING MY SIG and then replacing it with > a DIFFERENT sig is MISREPRESENTATION. > > That's like having an abridged version of the constitution, > which leaves off the signatures to save space in books. > > If you are going to archive my posts, archive MY POSTS. > > Don't archive what you think I ought to have written INSTEAD. > > If people don't want to read my sig . . . FINE! > > If people DO want to read my sig . . . NOW THEY CAN'T! > > If saving bandwidth and hard drive space was > my governing purpose, I WOULD NOT SPEAK. > > I HAVE *NO* SUCH PURPOSE! > > IT'S NOT RELEVANT > TO MY PURPOSES. > > > or > >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/main/sigfile.htm > > > >2) Because KP usually replies to UCP posts by others and > >quotes them in full, I didn't include original posts in > >this case, only KP's replies. > > Again, this is a MISREPRESENTATION of > both my post and what I was replying to. > > The original poster has a right to have his words > read INTACT AND UNINTERRUPTED. I leave > the original post intact when I reply to it when I > think it SHOULD be there. You cannot follow the > sense of it smoothly when it's all chopped up by > my line-by-line or even phrase-by-phrase replies. > > YOU NEED *BOTH* SECTIONS OF TEXT. > > I LEAVE IT IN BECAUSE I *WANT* IT LEFT IN! > > BECAUSE IT'S *NOT THE SAME* WITHOUT IT. No, this is not the case. Maybe I didn't state it clearly: When the original message is included in your post, I didn't remove it from your post, I just removed the post by original poster from the archive. Your post is intact, except for the signature. Sorry about that. > >3) I didn't include KP's slicing & dicing posts unless > >they explicitly discuss/clarify some UCP points. > > Leaving out entire posts is FINE with me. > EDITING my posts sincerely annoys me. > > Once you have deleted WHAT I am replying > to, PLUS my sig, all we have to do is delete > all the insults and run spell check to convert > Konchok Penday into KEN DOLL BLATHER. > > To save 1/10 of a second download time! > > WHAT'S UP WIT DAT? > > It looks like a SUBSTITUTE purpose to me! > > How many tenths of a second does it take > to *WONDER* WHAT WAS CENSORED, > WHICH NOW CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD. > > Once you start *ANY EDITING*, you are > NO LONGER ARCHIVING, YOU ARE NOW > ALTER-ISING and making UNKNOWABLE. > > I said what I said. > > *ANYTHING* else is > a misrepresentation. > > I'd MUCH rarther have edited archives than no archives. > > I'D *MUCH* RATHER HAVE *ACCURATE* ARCHIVES! > > Which means . . . *ZERO* EDITS! > > >Alex Buksdorf, > >UCP-List owner > > Again, I am THRILLED you are archiving my posts! > > However, to be honest and blunt, I must add that > I am NOT happy you spent what must be HUGE > amounts of your time ALTER-ISING MY POSTS > to conform them to how you think they should be. > > I *DO NOT* think of that as an improvement. > > I'd *MUCH* rather have them INTACT! > > If that takes an extra three minutes to download > > . . . SO WHAT? It's not relevant! > > Best Wishes, > > WE'LCOME TO > *ACTUALLITY!* > > THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR > ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! > > RESET YOUR SELF! > REBOOT YOUR MIND! > RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS > REINSTALL RATIONALITY > DEBUG AND UPGRADE > YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING > SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! > N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* > > YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY > FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. > > FIND OUT HOW > TO *FIND OUT!* > > WHAT YOU DO > IS UP TO YOU! > > THE WAY > TO *SEE* > *IS* UCP! > > *DO* UCP > AND SEE! > > O > --- ) > \ > > Konchok Penday > > Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER > Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm > Formulator and Disseminator of the > Universal Conscious Practice: > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev > Technical hExcellence Award :-) > Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: > http://net-prophet.net/gc/ > Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: > http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ > REvolutionary Architectural System: > http://net-prophet.net/subs/ > Better Banjo Bureau > http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ > Cottage Industries > http://net-prophet.net/ci/ > > ########################################### > > N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! > WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! > YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > > *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! > *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! > > YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! > USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! > > UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS > SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, > ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! > > ########################################### > > Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via > paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! > > GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net > RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! > EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! > UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! > > UCP USENET POSTS: alt.clearing.technology, and > coming soon to an ALT.UCP newsgroup near you! > Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm > ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! > UCP *NEWS SERVER* COMING SOON: ucp.ath.cx > > "UCP EMAIL LIST" > To subscribe to this group, send an email to: > ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > UCP POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: > http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ > > >===================================================================== > > >Any critisizm and suggestions welcome. > > > >If anyone wants to upload any other UCP materials, > >please let me know. > > > > > >Best wishes, > >Alex > > > >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/ - N-Lightenment Now for free > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/ - join UCP List Thanks for correcting my mistake, Alex Buksdorf ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-935-1022268456-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 19:28:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.83]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OJSkv04269 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 19:28:46 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-935-1022268456-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 19:27:36 -0000 X-Sender: Dn6246@aol.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 19:27:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 49010 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 19:08:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 19:08:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-r08.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.104) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 19:08:12 -0000 Received: from Dn6246@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.176.8c3148b (24898) for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 15:08:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <176.8c3148b.2a1fe98c@aol.com> To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 X-eGroups-From: Dn6246@aol.com From: dn6246@myrealbox.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:07:56 EDT Subject: [UCP-List] Email address change Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 160 Hello All! I changed my old email address which turned out unreliable dn6246@myrealbox.com to the new one: dn6246@softhome.net I've been pretty much tied up lately and still are, and have a backlog of posts to reply, so for now I'll reply only to the urgent ones. Alex Buksdorf, UCP-List owner ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-936-1022268863-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 19:34:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OJYTv08548 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 19:34:29 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-936-1022268863-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 19:34:23 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 19:34:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 63243 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 19:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 19:13:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 19:13:57 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4OJDut15434; Fri, 24 May 2002 19:13:56 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 19:13:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Physical manifestations of spiritual illness Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 161 On Fri, 24 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > >From: Abba Noor > > >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:42:38 +0000 (UTC) > > >If you continue to practice UCP, you will eventually move far enough > >up-scale to catch the root cause. See if you can duplicate exactly what > >you were thinking on a subconscious level the moment before you > >experience an attack. > > Hmmm... my partner often gets asthmatic when we're making love. Should I be > worried? Dear Ondine, Worry seldom helps anything. It doesn't GO anywhere. Entertainment value only. If you want to DO something about it, you might encourage him to do UCP. I don't know how these things are hooked up, may be different for everyone, but I do have a story for you: Some years back I was traveling with my assistant, a business arrangement only - although we shared the same quarters. We would chat for a while usually, in the evening, then read, each our own book. We never broached the subject of sex between the two of us. For my part I didn't quite trust her. Nevertheless one evening I began to idly explore in my mind a sexual image focused on her. She sneezed. I returned to *really* reading my book. Then after a while conjured up a similar image. She sneezed again. Well over the next two months it went on like that. I would check from time to time to see if it would still work. It never failed. An amusing game that I never told her about. I filed it under the categories of 'psychic phenomena' and 'sex-respiratory connection' Hope this helps, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-937-1022270147-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 19:55:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OJtrv25267 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 19:55:53 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-937-1022270147-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 19:55:48 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 19:55:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 3744 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 19:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 19:35:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 19:35:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.137] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 19:35:49 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 19:35:48 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Physical manifestations of spiritual illness Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4OJtrv25267 Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 162 --- In ucplist@y..., "Ondine Green" wrote: > > > > >From: Abba Noor > > >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:42:38 +0000 (UTC) > > >If you continue to practice UCP, you will eventually move far enough > >up-scale to catch the root cause. See if you can duplicate exactly what > >you were thinking on a subconscious level the moment before you > >experience an attack. > > Hmmm... my partner often gets asthmatic when we're making love. Should I be > worried? Why should you? You cannot know what causes this. Even your partner is not aware of what causes this a the moment. Only through examining the mind can we hope to discover the reasons for conditions, prensently wanted or unwanted. If we could figure out exactly what causes things in other peoples minds then we would be telepathique. Even though telepathy may apear, I know I've felt it(hallucination?), we must try not to speculate to much on what other people's unwanted conditions is causes by. That is of course just my opinion. Best Wishes, Alexander Køpke > ondine > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: htt p://messenger.msn.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-938-1022270266-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 19:57:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OJvpv26694 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 19:57:51 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-938-1022270266-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 19:57:46 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 19:57:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 25696 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 19:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 19:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 19:56:02 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.184]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13028 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 14:55:59 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020524125224.00da5b78@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 12:52:24 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Archive 2001-2002 uploaded to UCP-ListFiles section Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 163 >From: dn6246@myrealbox.com >Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:11:32 EDT >Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Archive 2001-2002 uploaded to UCP-ListFiles section [posted to AU and ACT] At 03:11 PM 5/24/2002 EDT Alex Buksdorf wrote >Hi KP and All, HI! >Sorry KP for editing your posts, of course you are >right completely, but I started archiving a long >time ago for my own purpouses and didn't intend >to publish it. It was already in this edited form >and I didn't save the original posts, the fact >that I now regret. Thanks for filling in the picture! I understand much better now. I feel a little silly about my response. >Now when UCP-List came around >and especially when Justin desided to write >a UCP book, I thought that publishing the archive >would be helpful. YES! IT IS! IT IS *EXTREMELY* VALUABLE! >Anyway, I think to have this archive is better than no archive. YES! I HAVE SAID SEVERAL TIMES I AM *THRILLED* TO HAVE IT! I HAVE LINKS IN MY SIG AND ON THE UCP SITE! ============================================== WHEN I GET TO IT, I'LL PUT THEM ON MY UCP SITE TOO! ============================================== Bug me if it takes too long, I'm overwhelmed right now. At least I'm linking to it now. >The main bodies of the posts >are intact, only signatures are missing. I misunderstood you! It any case, even if it was as I misunderstood, that is clearly MUCH better than NO archives! I was mostly annoyed by MY misunderstanding that you had edited my posts TO publish them. >In order to make it right, I need to go to Google >Usenet archives and start from scratch, which >will take LOTS of time. I understand! >I don't know if and when I can get to it. I understand! It may very well not be worth the time! Maybe we should just be *THANKFUL* for your contributioin and forget about fooling around with it? You have the key parts for reference and google.com should have the full text for the historical record. >Of course from now on I'll be archiving in full. Way Cool! >For now, what do you think I should do with >this archive: > >1) leave it as it is? YES! Perhaps simply add a paragraph of instruction for how to get the original google.com? Now that I know it is only the sigs which are missing, it seems relatively UNimportant to me. I was mostly annoyed by MY misunderstanding of your intention. >2) take it down? NO! NO! NO! IT IS A *VERY* VALUABLE RESOURCE! I AM VERY GRATEFUL TO YOU FOR IT! Someone else recently offered to host it too! The more copies on web sites, the better! Especially if they are open-access rather than hidden behind yahoo's yahoo bullshit! >3) rename as "Quotes from UCP discussions" > or smth similar? Just post a little note so people understand EXACTLY WHAT IT *IS*, and don't think it's the entire unaltered text. You already do that! >Other suggestions? I think that covers it! CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR ALT.UCP VICTORY! You have made several *MAJOR* contributions to UCP . . . already! >See also comments below. > >Net Prophet wrote: >> >> [second reply by KP] >> >> At 04:50 PM 5/14/2002 -0000, Alex Buksdorf wrote: >> >Hello All, >> > >> >I finally uploaded long promised UCP Archive to >> >the UCP-List File section, so far only for >> >2001 & 2002 (Jan-Apr). >> > >> >I'm still working on 1999 & 2000. >> > >> >I'm gonna update it every month. >> > >> >I also uploaded the complete TechTalks Series >> >(some are missing on the UCP websight). >> > >> >UCP Archive is compressed into a number of zip-files. >> > >> >Here is the Readme file included in each zip-file: >> > >> >===================================================================== >> > >> > READ THIS FIRST: >> > >> >UCP Archive includes many posts on >> >the subject of UCP from the Usenet newsgroup >> >alt.clearing.technology (ACT) from 1999 to >> >present (and now also from UCP-List and alt.ucp). >> > >> >It contains a wealth of UCP discussions which >> >clarify many UCP points, success stories, >> >session reports, UCP news, etc. >> > >> >You can find UCP Archive at the UCP-List >> >Files Section: >> > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ >> > >> >It consists of a number of zipped files, which >> >you can download to your hard drive, unzip >> >to a folder by any of zip-unzip programs like >> >Winzip and read off-line. >> > >> >The posts are arranged in chronological order. >> > >> >Names of the files containing posts has the >> >following structure: >> > >> >YYYY-MM-DD HH-MM , >> > >> >where >> >YYYY-MM-DD - date of the post, >> >HH-MM - time of the post (GMT), >> > - full or partial post subject. >> > >> > >> >In order to make UCP Archive more compact and to >> >avoid redandencies I did the following: >> >> Dear Alex: >> >> I am STILL *THRILLED* that you have archived my posts, >> but upon reconsideration I have STRONG disagreement with >> your editing of my posts. I *DO NOT* WRITE TO BE MORE >> COMPACT. I WRITE TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE TO >> SAY. IT TAKES EXACTLY AS MANY WORDS AS I USE. >> >> I DO NOT WRITE to avoid redundancies. That is YOUR purpose. >Yes, it was, when I was archiving just for myself. I understand that now! Thanks for clarifying it! >> >1) Since majority of the posts are by Konchok Penday (KP) >> >and his signature is pretty long, I excluded it from >> >his posts. You can see KP's current signature at >> > >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/UCP%20Archive/KP%27s% >> >20Signature >> >> THIS IS ALTER-IS/SUBSTITUE/LIABILITY. >> >> I *OBJECT* to having my posts edited. >> >> MY SIG IS THE MOST IMPORTANT >> PART OF EVERY POST I WRITE. >> >> My continuously changing sig file >> IS PART OF EVERY POST. >> >> It's a SIGnificant part of the history. >> >> My old sigs are *NOT* EQUAL to my new sigs. >> >> DELETING MY SIG and then replacing it with >> a DIFFERENT sig is MISREPRESENTATION. >> >> That's like having an abridged version of the constitution, >> which leaves off the signatures to save space in books. >> >> If you are going to archive my posts, archive MY POSTS. >> >> Don't archive what you think I ought to have written INSTEAD. >> >> If people don't want to read my sig . . . FINE! >> >> If people DO want to read my sig . . . NOW THEY CAN'T! >> >> If saving bandwidth and hard drive space was >> my governing purpose, I WOULD NOT SPEAK. >> >> I HAVE *NO* SUCH PURPOSE! >> >> IT'S NOT RELEVANT >> TO MY PURPOSES. >> >> > or >> >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/main/sigfile.htm >> > >> >2) Because KP usually replies to UCP posts by others and >> >quotes them in full, I didn't include original posts in >> >this case, only KP's replies. >> >> Again, this is a MISREPRESENTATION of >> both my post and what I was replying to. >> >> The original poster has a right to have his words >> read INTACT AND UNINTERRUPTED. I leave >> the original post intact when I reply to it when I >> think it SHOULD be there. You cannot follow the >> sense of it smoothly when it's all chopped up by >> my line-by-line or even phrase-by-phrase replies. >> >> YOU NEED *BOTH* SECTIONS OF TEXT. >> >> I LEAVE IT IN BECAUSE I *WANT* IT LEFT IN! >> >> BECAUSE IT'S *NOT THE SAME* WITHOUT IT. >No, this is not the case. Maybe I didn't state it clearly: >When the original message is included in your post, I didn't >remove it from your post, I just removed the post by >original poster from the archive. Your post is intact, >except for the signature. Sorry about that. MY misunderstanding! SORRY ABOUT THAT! >> >3) I didn't include KP's slicing & dicing posts unless >> >they explicitly discuss/clarify some UCP points. >> >> Leaving out entire posts is FINE with me. >> EDITING my posts sincerely annoys me. >> >> Once you have deleted WHAT I am replying >> to, PLUS my sig, all we have to do is delete >> all the insults and run spell check to convert >> Konchok Penday into KEN DOLL BLATHER. >> >> To save 1/10 of a second download time! >> >> WHAT'S UP WIT DAT? >> >> It looks like a SUBSTITUTE purpose to me! >> >> How many tenths of a second does it take >> to *WONDER* WHAT WAS CENSORED, >> WHICH NOW CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD. >> >> Once you start *ANY EDITING*, you are >> NO LONGER ARCHIVING, YOU ARE NOW >> ALTER-ISING and making UNKNOWABLE. >> >> I said what I said. >> >> *ANYTHING* else is >> a misrepresentation. >> >> I'd MUCH rarther have edited archives than no archives. >> >> I'D *MUCH* RATHER HAVE *ACCURATE* ARCHIVES! >> >> Which means . . . *ZERO* EDITS! >> >> >Alex Buksdorf, >> >UCP-List owner >> >> Again, I am THRILLED you are archiving my posts! >> >> However, to be honest and blunt, I must add that >> I am NOT happy you spent what must be HUGE >> amounts of your time ALTER-ISING MY POSTS >> to conform them to how you think they should be. >> >> I *DO NOT* think of that as an improvement. >> >> I'd *MUCH* rather have them INTACT! >> >> If that takes an extra three minutes to download >> >> . . . SO WHAT? It's not relevant! >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> WE'LCOME TO >> *ACTUALLITY!* >> >> THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR >> ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! >> >> RESET YOUR SELF! >> REBOOT YOUR MIND! >> RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS >> REINSTALL RATIONALITY >> DEBUG AND UPGRADE >> YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING >> SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! >> N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* >> >> YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY >> FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. >> >> FIND OUT HOW >> TO *FIND OUT!* >> >> WHAT YOU DO >> IS UP TO YOU! >> >> THE WAY >> TO *SEE* >> *IS* UCP! >> >> *DO* UCP >> AND SEE! >> >> O >> --- ) >> \ >> >> Konchok Penday >> >> Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER >> Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot >> http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm >> Formulator and Disseminator of the >> Universal Conscious Practice: >> http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ >> Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev >> Technical hExcellence Award :-) >> Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: >> http://net-prophet.net/gc/ >> Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: >> http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ >> REvolutionary Architectural System: >> http://net-prophet.net/subs/ >> Better Banjo Bureau >> http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ >> Cottage Industries >> http://net-prophet.net/ci/ >> >> ########################################### >> >> N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! >> WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! >> YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! >> http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ >> >> *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! >> *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! >> >> YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! >> USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! >> >> UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS >> SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, >> ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! >> >> ########################################### >> >> Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via >> paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! >> >> GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net >> RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! >> EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! >> UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! >> >> UCP USENET POSTS: alt.clearing.technology, and >> coming soon to an ALT.UCP newsgroup near you! >> Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm >> ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! >> UCP *NEWS SERVER* COMING SOON: ucp.ath.cx >> >> "UCP EMAIL LIST" >> To subscribe to this group, send an email to: >> ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com >> >> UCP POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ >> UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: >> http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ >> >> >===================================================================== >> >> >Any critisizm and suggestions welcome. >> > >> >If anyone wants to upload any other UCP materials, >> >please let me know. >> > >> > >> >Best wishes, >> >Alex >> > >> >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/ - N-Lightenment Now for free >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/ - join UCP List > >Thanks for correcting my mistake, >Alex Buksdorf =================================== THANKS FOR CORRECTING MY MISTAKES! =================================== KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-939-1022270579-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 20:03:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OK35v01708 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 20:03:06 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-939-1022270579-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 20:03:00 -0000 X-Sender: Dn6246@aol.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 20:02:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 27420 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 19:44:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 19:44:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m08.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.163) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 19:44:47 -0000 Received: from Dn6246@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.11d.1187b2cf (4396) for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 15:44:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <11d.1187b2cf.2a1ff228@aol.com> To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 138 X-eGroups-From: Dn6246@aol.com From: dn6246@myrealbox.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:44:40 EDT Subject: [UCP-List] Re: ALT.UCP NOW PROPAGATING! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 164 Hi KP! Net Prophet wrote: > > ALT.UCP NOW PROPAGATING! > > Alex Buksdorf seems to have *WON* the battle for alt.ucp! It should be Alexander Kopke, you are confusing us. Alex Buksdorf > christinA eijkhout has NOT rmgrouped alt.ucp for several days now! > > She has SO many other groups to rmgroup, we have apparently > fallen down her list of psychOTic MUST BE STOPPED priorities! > > I'm starting to see alt.ucp messages from > other servers showing up on teranews.com! > > It might still need an occasional booster, but > ALT.UCP *IS* WORKING . . . RIGHT NOW! > > We EXPECTED there would be some flak! > > There *WAS* some flak! > > =============== > WAY TO GO ALEX! > =============== > > Best Wishes, > > WE'LCOME TO > *ACTUALLITY!* > > THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR > ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! > > RESET YOUR SELF! > REBOOT YOUR MIND! > RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS > REINSTALL RATIONALITY > DEBUG AND UPGRADE > YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING > SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! > N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* > > YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY > FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. > > FIND OUT HOW > TO *FIND OUT!* > > WHAT YOU DO > IS UP TO YOU! > > THE WAY > TO *SEE* > *IS* UCP! > > *DO* UCP > AND SEE! > > O > --- ) > \ > > Konchok Penday > > Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER > Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm > Formulator and Disseminator of the > Universal Conscious Practice: > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev > Technical hExcellence Award :-) > Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: > http://net-prophet.net/gc/ > Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: > http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ > REvolutionary Architectural System: > http://net-prophet.net/subs/ > Better Banjo Bureau > http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ > Cottage Industries > http://net-prophet.net/ci/ > > ########################################### > > N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! > WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! > YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > > *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! > *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! > > YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! > USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! > > UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS > SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, > ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! > > ########################################### > > Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via > paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! > > GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net > RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! > EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! > UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! > > UCP NEWS @ ALT.UCP and alt.clearing.technology > ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! > Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm > KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. > > UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > > "UCP EMAIL LIST" > To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: > http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-940-1022272484-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 20:34:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OKYuh00442 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 20:34:56 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-940-1022272484-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 20:34:44 -0000 X-Sender: dn6246@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 20:34:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 92216 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 20:34:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 20:34:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-ip02.mx.aol.com) (152.163.225.160) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 20:34:42 -0000 Received: from logs-mtc-tf.proxy.aol.com (logs-mtc-tf.proxy.aol.com [64.12.103.5]) by rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (v83.35) with ESMTP id RELAYIN7-0524152939; Fri, 24 May 2002 15:29:39 -0400 Received: from softhome.net (ACA751CF.ipt.aol.com [172.167.81.207]) by logs-mtc-tf.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id g4OJRXw257946 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 15:27:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3CEE9422.4735901F@softhome.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ru,uk To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <3.0.6.32.20020524114050.00e01e50@net-prophet.net> X-Apparently-From: Dn6246@aol.com From: Alex Buksdorf X-Yahoo-Profile: dn6246 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:27:30 -0400 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: ALT.UCP NOW PROPAGATING! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 165 Hi KP! Net Prophet wrote: > > ALT.UCP NOW PROPAGATING! > > Alex Buksdorf seems to have *WON* the battle for alt.ucp! It should be Alexander Kopke, you are confusing us. Alex Buksdorf > christinA eijkhout has NOT rmgrouped alt.ucp for several days now! > > She has SO many other groups to rmgroup, we have apparently > fallen down her list of psychOTic MUST BE STOPPED priorities! > > I'm starting to see alt.ucp messages from > other servers showing up on teranews.com! > > It might still need an occasional booster, but > ALT.UCP *IS* WORKING . . . RIGHT NOW! > > We EXPECTED there would be some flak! > > There *WAS* some flak! > > =============== > WAY TO GO ALEX! > =============== > > Best Wishes, > > WE'LCOME TO > *ACTUALLITY!* > > THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR > ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! > > RESET YOUR SELF! > REBOOT YOUR MIND! > RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS > REINSTALL RATIONALITY > DEBUG AND UPGRADE > YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING > SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! > N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* > > YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY > FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. > > FIND OUT HOW > TO *FIND OUT!* > > WHAT YOU DO > IS UP TO YOU! > > THE WAY > TO *SEE* > *IS* UCP! > > *DO* UCP > AND SEE! > > O > --- ) > \ > > Konchok Penday > > Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER > Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm > Formulator and Disseminator of the > Universal Conscious Practice: > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev > Technical hExcellence Award :-) > Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: > http://net-prophet.net/gc/ > Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: > http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ > REvolutionary Architectural System: > http://net-prophet.net/subs/ > Better Banjo Bureau > http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ > Cottage Industries > http://net-prophet.net/ci/ > > ########################################### > > N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! > WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! > YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > > *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! > *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! > > YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! > USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! > > UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS > SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, > ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! > > ########################################### > > Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via > paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! > > GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net > RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! > EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! > UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! > > UCP NEWS @ ALT.UCP and alt.clearing.technology > ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! > Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm > KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. > > UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > > "UCP EMAIL LIST" > To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: > http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-941-1022273520-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 20:53:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.73]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OKr6h15420 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 20:53:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-941-1022273520-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 20:52:59 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 20:51:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 38007 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 20:51:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 20:51:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 20:51:57 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.184]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA23890 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 15:51:55 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020524134813.00cf0a90@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CEE9422.4735901F@softhome.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20020524114050.00e01e50@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 13:48:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: ALT.UCP NOW PROPAGATING! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 166 At 03:27 PM 5/24/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Hi KP! > >Net Prophet wrote: >> >> ALT.UCP NOW PROPAGATING! >> >> Alex Buksdorf seems to have *WON* the battle for alt.ucp! > >It should be Alexander Kopke, >you are confusing us. > >Alex Buksdorf Sorry! KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-942-1022276266-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 21:38:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.104]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4OLc6i21632 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 21:38:06 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-942-1022276266-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 21:38:01 -0000 X-Sender: geraldhinson@nctimes.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 21:37:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 91315 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 21:37:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 21:37:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.nctimes.net) (63.251.112.66) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 21:37:44 -0000 Received: from 6771j01.nctimes.net (114-125.nctimes.net [63.251.114.125]) by mail.nctimes.net (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g4OLb9mW011822 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 14:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020524143744.00a21060@mail.nctimes.net> X-Sender: geraldhinson@mail.nctimes.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <120.10785ef0.2a1b58e5@aol.com> From: Gerald Hinson X-Yahoo-Profile: hinsongerald MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 14:38:03 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] remove Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 167 At 04:01 AM 5/21/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >ADVERTISEMENT >95cc77c.jpg > >95cc851.jpg > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-943-1022282277-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 23:18:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4ONI3m07254 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 23:18:03 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-943-1022282277-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 23:17:58 -0000 X-Sender: dn6246@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 23:17:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 45020 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 23:17:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 23:17:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO softhome.net) (66.54.152.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 23:17:57 -0000 Received: from softhome.net ([172.128.27.57]) (AUTH: PLAIN dn6246@softhome.net) by softhome.net with esmtp; Fri, 24 May 2002 08:20:35 -0600 Message-ID: <3CEE4C34.BBE54252@softhome.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ru,uk To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Alex Buksdorf X-Yahoo-Profile: dn6246 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 10:20:36 -0400 Subject: [UCP-List] Email address change Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 168 Hello All! I changed my old email address which turned out unreliable dn6246@myrealbox.com to the new one: dn6246@softhome.net I've been pretty much tied up lately and still are, and have a backlog of posts to reply, so for now I'll reply only to urgent ones. Alex Buksdorf, UCP-List owner ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-944-1022282572-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 24 23:22:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.87]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4ONMvm10501 for ; Fri, 24 May 2002 23:22:57 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-944-1022282572-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 May 2002 23:22:52 -0000 X-Sender: dn6246@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 24 May 2002 23:22:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 76440 invoked from network); 24 May 2002 23:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 May 2002 23:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO softhome.net) (66.54.152.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 May 2002 23:22:51 -0000 Received: from softhome.net ([172.128.27.57]) (AUTH: PLAIN dn6246@softhome.net) by softhome.net with esmtp; Fri, 24 May 2002 09:29:36 -0600 Message-ID: <3CEE5C61.F56E9419@softhome.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ru,uk To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <3.0.6.32.20020519021007.00b39a68@net-prophet.net> From: Alex Buksdorf X-Yahoo-Profile: dn6246 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 11:29:37 -0400 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Archive 2001-2002 uploaded to UCP-ListFiles section Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 169 Hi KP and All, Sorry KP for editing your posts, of course you are right completely, but I started archiving a long time ago for my own purpouses and didn't intend to publish it. It was already in this edited form and I didn't save the original posts, the fact that I now regret. Now when UCP-List came around and especially when Justin desided to write a UCP book, I thought that publishing the archive would be helpful. Anyway, I think to have this archive is better than no archive. The main bodies of the posts are intact, only signatures are missing. In order to make it right, I need to go to Google Usenet archives and start from scratch, which will take LOTS of time. I don't know if and when I can get to it. Of course from now on I'll be archiving in full. For now, what do you think I should do with this archive: 1) leave it as it is? 2) take it down? 3) rename as "Quotes from UCP discussions" or smth similar? Other suggestions? See also comments below. Net Prophet wrote: > > [second reply by KP] > > At 04:50 PM 5/14/2002 -0000, Alex Buksdorf wrote: > >Hello All, > > > >I finally uploaded long promised UCP Archive to > >the UCP-List File section, so far only for > >2001 & 2002 (Jan-Apr). > > > >I'm still working on 1999 & 2000. > > > >I'm gonna update it every month. > > > >I also uploaded the complete TechTalks Series > >(some are missing on the UCP websight). > > > >UCP Archive is compressed into a number of zip-files. > > > >Here is the Readme file included in each zip-file: > > > >===================================================================== > > > > READ THIS FIRST: > > > >UCP Archive includes many posts on > >the subject of UCP from the Usenet newsgroup > >alt.clearing.technology (ACT) from 1999 to > >present (and now also from UCP-List and alt.ucp). > > > >It contains a wealth of UCP discussions which > >clarify many UCP points, success stories, > >session reports, UCP news, etc. > > > >You can find UCP Archive at the UCP-List > >Files Section: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > > > >It consists of a number of zipped files, which > >you can download to your hard drive, unzip > >to a folder by any of zip-unzip programs like > >Winzip and read off-line. > > > >The posts are arranged in chronological order. > > > >Names of the files containing posts has the > >following structure: > > > >YYYY-MM-DD HH-MM , > > > >where > >YYYY-MM-DD - date of the post, > >HH-MM - time of the post (GMT), > > - full or partial post subject. > > > > > >In order to make UCP Archive more compact and to > >avoid redandencies I did the following: > > Dear Alex: > > I am STILL *THRILLED* that you have archived my posts, > but upon reconsideration I have STRONG disagreement with > your editing of my posts. I *DO NOT* WRITE TO BE MORE > COMPACT. I WRITE TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE TO > SAY. IT TAKES EXACTLY AS MANY WORDS AS I USE. > > I DO NOT WRITE to avoid redundancies. That is YOUR purpose. Yes, it was, when I was archiving just for myself. > >1) Since majority of the posts are by Konchok Penday (KP) > >and his signature is pretty long, I excluded it from > >his posts. You can see KP's current signature at > > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/UCP%20Archive/KP%27s% > >20Signature > > THIS IS ALTER-IS/SUBSTITUE/LIABILITY. > > I *OBJECT* to having my posts edited. > > MY SIG IS THE MOST IMPORTANT > PART OF EVERY POST I WRITE. > > My continuously changing sig file > IS PART OF EVERY POST. > > It's a SIGnificant part of the history. > > My old sigs are *NOT* EQUAL to my new sigs. > > DELETING MY SIG and then replacing it with > a DIFFERENT sig is MISREPRESENTATION. > > That's like having an abridged version of the constitution, > which leaves off the signatures to save space in books. > > If you are going to archive my posts, archive MY POSTS. > > Don't archive what you think I ought to have written INSTEAD. > > If people don't want to read my sig . . . FINE! > > If people DO want to read my sig . . . NOW THEY CAN'T! > > If saving bandwidth and hard drive space was > my governing purpose, I WOULD NOT SPEAK. > > I HAVE *NO* SUCH PURPOSE! > > IT'S NOT RELEVANT > TO MY PURPOSES. > > > or > >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/main/sigfile.htm > > > >2) Because KP usually replies to UCP posts by others and > >quotes them in full, I didn't include original posts in > >this case, only KP's replies. > > Again, this is a MISREPRESENTATION of > both my post and what I was replying to. > > The original poster has a right to have his words > read INTACT AND UNINTERRUPTED. I leave > the original post intact when I reply to it when I > think it SHOULD be there. You cannot follow the > sense of it smoothly when it's all chopped up by > my line-by-line or even phrase-by-phrase replies. > > YOU NEED *BOTH* SECTIONS OF TEXT. > > I LEAVE IT IN BECAUSE I *WANT* IT LEFT IN! > > BECAUSE IT'S *NOT THE SAME* WITHOUT IT. No, this is not the case. Maybe I didn't state it clearly: When the original message is included in your post, I didn't remove it from your post, I just removed the post by original poster from the archive. Your post is intact, except for the signature. Sorry about that. > >3) I didn't include KP's slicing & dicing posts unless > >they explicitly discuss/clarify some UCP points. > > Leaving out entire posts is FINE with me. > EDITING my posts sincerely annoys me. > > Once you have deleted WHAT I am replying > to, PLUS my sig, all we have to do is delete > all the insults and run spell check to convert > Konchok Penday into KEN DOLL BLATHER. > > To save 1/10 of a second download time! > > WHAT'S UP WIT DAT? > > It looks like a SUBSTITUTE purpose to me! > > How many tenths of a second does it take > to *WONDER* WHAT WAS CENSORED, > WHICH NOW CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD. > > Once you start *ANY EDITING*, you are > NO LONGER ARCHIVING, YOU ARE NOW > ALTER-ISING and making UNKNOWABLE. > > I said what I said. > > *ANYTHING* else is > a misrepresentation. > > I'd MUCH rarther have edited archives than no archives. > > I'D *MUCH* RATHER HAVE *ACCURATE* ARCHIVES! > > Which means . . . *ZERO* EDITS! > > >Alex Buksdorf, > >UCP-List owner > > Again, I am THRILLED you are archiving my posts! > > However, to be honest and blunt, I must add that > I am NOT happy you spent what must be HUGE > amounts of your time ALTER-ISING MY POSTS > to conform them to how you think they should be. > > I *DO NOT* think of that as an improvement. > > I'd *MUCH* rather have them INTACT! > > If that takes an extra three minutes to download > > . . . SO WHAT? It's not relevant! > > Best Wishes, > > WE'LCOME TO > *ACTUALLITY!* > > THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR > ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! > > RESET YOUR SELF! > REBOOT YOUR MIND! > RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS > REINSTALL RATIONALITY > DEBUG AND UPGRADE > YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING > SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! > N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* > > YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY > FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. > > FIND OUT HOW > TO *FIND OUT!* > > WHAT YOU DO > IS UP TO YOU! > > THE WAY > TO *SEE* > *IS* UCP! > > *DO* UCP > AND SEE! > > O > --- ) > \ > > Konchok Penday > > Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER > Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm > Formulator and Disseminator of the > Universal Conscious Practice: > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev > Technical hExcellence Award :-) > Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: > http://net-prophet.net/gc/ > Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: > http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ > REvolutionary Architectural System: > http://net-prophet.net/subs/ > Better Banjo Bureau > http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ > Cottage Industries > http://net-prophet.net/ci/ > > ########################################### > > N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! > WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! > YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > > *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! > *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! > > YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! > USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! > > UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS > SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, > ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! > > ########################################### > > Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via > paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! > > GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net > RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! > EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! > UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! > > UCP USENET POSTS: alt.clearing.technology, and > coming soon to an ALT.UCP newsgroup near you! > Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm > ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! > UCP *NEWS SERVER* COMING SOON: ucp.ath.cx > > "UCP EMAIL LIST" > To subscribe to this group, send an email to: > ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > UCP POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: > http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ > > >===================================================================== > > >Any critisizm and suggestions welcome. > > > >If anyone wants to upload any other UCP materials, > >please let me know. > > > > > >Best wishes, > >Alex > > > >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/ - N-Lightenment Now for free > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/ - join UCP List Thanks for correcting my mistake, Alex Buksdorf ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-945-1022295566-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 25 02:59:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4P2xV428821 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 02:59:31 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-945-1022295566-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 02:59:26 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 25 May 2002 02:59:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 79777 invoked from network); 25 May 2002 02:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2002 02:59:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2002 02:59:25 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4P2xO023933; Sat, 25 May 2002 02:59:24 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 02:59:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Lynx: was :Re: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 172 On Fri, 24 May 2002, LucCerveau wrote: > Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:09:36 -0000 > From: LucCerveau > > > >Well lynx is handy for things like this. It doesn't use a > "database" nor > > > >newsrc; it just questions the news server directly. Very handy > for that, > > > >plus many other thaings too. I seem to remember a Windows > version. Free, > > > >of course. > > > > > > 30 messages at a time sounds pretty useless, > > > > Right tool for right job. Unix philosophy. ;) > > > > > and where do you store and access them all? > > > > Save to local file, or print, or e-mail. > > > > > I've got my agent working OK again. It's just > > > a nightmare when I have to change servers. > > > > Avoid the nightmare: lynx for that job. > > One has to get used to it. It's a bit unix alike... like when I tried > out the sdf.lonestar.org. It works in a similar way. > > Tell me. Why do you use lynx. The cons are obvious but there must be > pros too... tell me about it. 80) Text based browser. Fast as lightning to access various web sites as for research, since it ignores graphic elements of files and only requests the text portions. If you run it on a shell account it is even faster because the server has a big pipe. It will also convert html files to text in a beautiful manner. I use it to maintain web pages, it's great for picking nits from you web page. Just log into the server and call the file with lynx. With one keypress you are into your favorite editor. Find the nit and fix it and save it. Wham you are back in lynx to see how it looks. Switch to another window running netscape and reload to see how it looks there. One can't speak too highly of lynx. For certain jobs nothing can touch it. One just saves oodles and oodles of time and tedium. One of the classic greats of Unix software! ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-946-1022299626-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 25 04:07:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.92]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4P47AL14788 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 04:07:11 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-946-1022299626-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 04:07:06 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 25 May 2002 04:07:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 4087 invoked from network); 25 May 2002 04:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2002 04:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2002 04:07:04 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4P473p10216; Sat, 25 May 2002 04:07:03 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 04:07:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Breath, Sex, Death: was Re: [UCP-List] Physical manifestations of spiritual illness Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 173 On Fri, 24 May 2002, LucCerveau wrote: > Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 19:35:48 -0000 > From: LucCerveau > --- In ucplist@y..., "Ondine Green" wrote: > > >From: Abba Noor > > > > >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:42:38 +0000 (UTC) > > > > >If you continue to practice UCP, you will eventually move far > > >enough up-scale to catch the root cause. See if you can duplicate > > >exactly what you were thinking on a subconscious level the moment > > >before you experience an attack. > > > > Hmmm... my partner often gets asthmatic when we're making love. > >Should I be worried? > > Why should you? You cannot know what causes this. Even your partner > is not aware of what causes this a the moment. Only through examining > the mind can we hope to discover the reasons for conditions, > prensently wanted or unwanted. > > If we could figure out exactly what causes things in other peoples > minds then we would be telepathique. > > Even though telepathy may apear, I know I've felt it(hallucination?), > we must try not to speculate to much on what other people's unwanted > conditions is causes by. That is of course just my opinion. Dear Alexander, I quite agree on what unwanted conditions in other people might be caused by, is frequently a useless speculation. But we can search for connections which might be universal. Today is holiday in United States - to commemorate the dead - especially the dead killed in wars. I took a 4 hour drive to arrive at a place of solitude, and among other thoughts were these: Breath is priority number one for the genetic entity. No breath, no life. If breath is cut off, 5 alarm fire bells. RED ALERT. Sex is priority number one for the species. No sex. No future. Species ends in one generation. Sex is RED ALERT ENTICEMENT. But sex REQUIRES death. So here we see the connection between breaths, sex, and death. The being, the genetic entity is USED BY THE SPECIES for its own purpose (many times in ways contrary to the interests of individual beings). This is nicely mirrored in Genesis: And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth . . ." "Behold, I have given you . . .everything that has the breath of life . . ." [Gen 1 28-30] God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. [Gen 2 7] In Hebrew, the word for "breath" is the same as the word for "soul" or "spirit" (if I remember correctly). One phamous phucker (to use a Konchokianism) stated that the spiritual entity is baffled by the sexual activities of the genetic entity and stands aside in confusion waiting for the thing to end. Although this is doubtless true in many cases, it need not be the end of the story. There are great rewards in conscious sexuality. Perhaps I will say more on this subject if anyone is interested. abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-947-1022320739-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 25 09:59:04 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4P9x4r13336 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 09:59:04 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-947-1022320739-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 09:59:00 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 25 May 2002 09:58:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 9957 invoked from network); 25 May 2002 09:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2002 09:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.218) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2002 09:58:58 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 May 2002 02:58:58 -0700 Received: from 203.79.68.61 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 25 May 2002 09:58:58 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2002 09:58:58.0742 (UTC) FILETIME=[CA095560:01C203D2] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [203.79.68.61] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:58:58 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Physical manifestations of spiritual illness Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 174 >From: Abba Noor > > Hmmm... my partner often gets asthmatic when we're making love. Should I >be > > worried? > >Worry seldom helps anything. It doesn't GO anywhere. Entertainment >value >only. Totally agreed - that *was* actually supposed to be a joke. ;-) >If you want to DO something about it, you might encourage him to do UCP. Well, I am trying - as I think I mentioned before, she (note pronouns) is a little wary of UCP because she still thinks of it as an offshoot of the scary Scientology mind-control cult. But she has noticed that I've begun to pull a lot of my threads together since I started about six weeks ago - perhaps my best propaganda will be by example. >Some years back I was traveling with my assistant, a business >arrangement only - although we shared the same quarters. We would chat >for a while usually, in the evening, then read, each our own book. We >never broached the subject of sex between the two of us. For my part I >didn't quite trust her. Nevertheless one evening I began to idly explore in >my mind a sexual image focused on her. She sneezed. I >returned to*really* reading my book. Then after a while conjured up a >similar image. She sneezed again. Cool! I have no idea what conclusions to draw from that, but it *is* an interesting story... ondine _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-948-1022321211-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 25 10:06:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4PA6u617975 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 10:06:56 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-948-1022321211-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 10:06:51 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 25 May 2002 10:06:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 84299 invoked from network); 25 May 2002 10:06:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2002 10:06:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.157) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2002 10:06:51 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 May 2002 03:06:51 -0700 Received: from 203.79.68.61 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 25 May 2002 10:06:51 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 May 2002 10:06:51.0257 (UTC) FILETIME=[E3AD6690:01C203D3] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [203.79.68.61] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:06:51 +0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 175 >From: Abba Noor >There are great rewards in conscious sexuality. Perhaps I >will say more on this subject if anyone is interested. Please do. ;-) In the UCP area we already have KP's (I think) observation that tone 6 behaviour often happens spontaneously in really good sexual relationships... I have my own suspicions about the possibilities of direct empathic/energy connections in such high-tone relationships/groups, but I'll wait for more research before talking about them here. ondine _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-949-1022323585-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 25 10:46:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4PAkU609061 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 10:46:30 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-949-1022323585-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 10:46:25 -0000 X-Sender: luccerveau@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 25 May 2002 10:46:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 69890 invoked from network); 25 May 2002 10:46:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2002 10:46:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.75) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2002 10:46:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.159] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 10:46:23 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "LucCerveau" X-Originating-IP: 80.62.165.176 X-Yahoo-Profile: LucCerveau MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 10:46:21 -0000 Subject: Lynx: was :Re: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP . . . ETC. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 176 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Fri, 24 May 2002, LucCerveau wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 16:09:36 -0000 > > From: LucCerveau > > > > >Well lynx is handy for things like this. It doesn't use a > > "database" nor > > > > >newsrc; it just questions the news server directly. Very handy > > for that, > > > > >plus many other thaings too. I seem to remember a Windows > > version. Free, > > > > >of course. > > > > > > > > 30 messages at a time sounds pretty useless, > > > > > > Right tool for right job. Unix philosophy. ;) > > > > > > > and where do you store and access them all? > > > > > > Save to local file, or print, or e-mail. > > > > > > > I've got my agent working OK again. It's just > > > > a nightmare when I have to change servers. > > > > > > Avoid the nightmare: lynx for that job. > > > > One has to get used to it. It's a bit unix alike... like when I tried > > out the sdf.lonestar.org. It works in a similar way. > > > > Tell me. Why do you use lynx. The cons are obvious but there must be > > pros too... tell me about it. 80) > > Text based browser. Fast as lightning to access various web sites as for > research, since it ignores graphic elements of files and only requests > the text portions. If you run it on a shell account it is even faster > because the server has a big pipe. It will also convert html files to text > in a beautiful manner. I use it to maintain web pages, it's great for > picking nits from you web page. Just log into the server and call the > file with lynx. With one keypress you are into your favorite editor. > Find the nit and fix it and save it. Wham you are back in lynx to see > how it looks. Switch to another window running netscape and reload to > see how it looks there. Seems like a perfect match! > One can't speak too highly of lynx. For certain jobs nothing can touch > it. One just saves oodles and oodles of time and tedium. > > One of the classic greats of Unix software! Thanks very much for sharing your views 80) I've downloaded it and take a little trip every day... BW, AK > ab > > abner@s... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-950-1022332186-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 25 13:09:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4PD9oF03832 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 13:09:51 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-950-1022332186-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 13:09:46 -0000 X-Sender: justintonation@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 25 May 2002 13:09:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 48465 invoked from network); 25 May 2002 13:09:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2002 13:09:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2002 13:09:44 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.185] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 13:09:44 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020524010222.00df6760@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "justintonation" X-Originating-IP: 63.60.239.213 X-Yahoo-Profile: justintonation MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 13:09:43 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 177 ..................snips................... > >UCP. but I think N-LIGHTENMENT NOW is one article that > >should try and eliminate any and all jargon. > > > >Justin KP: > It's amazing how pervasive the cult-speak is! > ;- ) > KP > > > .....snips...... I have put the glossary on the my partial mirror http://universalconsiouspractice.bravepages.com There was a bug where in Netscape where people could not see the text. I have put the code through Mac tidy and hopefully it should be okay. I believe KP and Ondine reported the problem. Would you two be able to have a look and see if the problem is resolved? P.S KP do you have a black and white logo design for UCP [i.e without any greys, midtones etc.]? I was just looking at the flyers I printed out and i notice that it does not photocopy very well. Justin ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-951-1022336577-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 25 14:23:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.90]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4PEN2L16225 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 14:23:02 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-951-1022336577-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 14:22:57 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 25 May 2002 14:22:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 98483 invoked from network); 25 May 2002 14:22:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2002 14:22:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2002 14:22:56 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.208]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA21629 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 09:22:54 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020525071914.107f60e0@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020524010222.00df6760@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 07:19:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 178 At 01:09 PM 5/25/2002 -0000, you wrote: > > >..................snips................... >> >UCP. but I think N-LIGHTENMENT NOW is one article that >> >should try and eliminate any and all jargon. >> > >> >Justin >KP: >> It's amazing how pervasive the cult-speak is! >> > >;- ) > >> KP >> >> >> .....snips...... Justin: >I have put the glossary on the my partial mirror >http://universalconsiouspractice.bravepages.com Ooooops! Your page disappeared! All I get is the bravepages "file not found" message for your site. >There was a bug where in Netscape where people could not see >the text. I have put the code through Mac tidy and hopefully it >should be okay. > >I believe KP and Ondine reported the problem. Would you two be >able to have a look and see if the problem is resolved? page gone now! >P.S KP do you have a black and white logo design for UCP [i.e >without any greys, midtones etc.]? I haven't made one up. You could just use arial bold block letters to match the type. KP >I was just looking at the flyers I printed out and i notice that it >does not photocopy very well. > >Justin ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-952-1022348872-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 25 17:47:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4PHlvS10232 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 17:47:57 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-952-1022348872-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 17:47:52 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 25 May 2002 17:47:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 72417 invoked from network); 25 May 2002 17:47:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2002 17:47:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2002 17:47:51 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4PHln606511; Sat, 25 May 2002 17:47:49 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 17:47:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 179 On Sat, 25 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > From: Ondine Green Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Physical manifestations of spiritual illness >From: Abba Noor > >If you want to DO something about it, you might encourage him to do UCP. > > Well, I am trying - as I think I mentioned before, she (note pronouns) Oh - What am I supposed to know about lesbian love? Despite some attempts on my part, they won't let me into the club. ;) >is a > little wary of UCP because she still thinks of it as an offshoot of the > scary Scientology mind-control cult. Yes, big problem right now. But we are working on it and I expect the situation will clarify. >But she has noticed that I've begun to > pull a lot of my threads together since I started about six weeks ago - > perhaps my best propaganda will be by example. When you begin asking off-hand questions she can't answer, I predict she will become interested. --- > >From: Abba Noor > >There are great rewards in conscious sexuality. Perhaps I > >will say more on this subject if anyone is interested. > > Please do. ;-) OK - I'll put it on my 'to do' list. But remember, my response above still holds. Still, I think it may be of value, but *perhaps* more to males than females because of male physiology. But the cultural and spiritual aspects are very much the same for both sexes. Stay tuned! >In the UCP area we already have KP's (I think) observation > that tone 6 behaviour often happens spontaneously in really good sexual > relationships... I have my own suspicions about the possibilities of direct > empathic/energy connections in such high-tone relationships/groups, but I'll > wait for more research before talking about them here. Please don't wait. It might be immensely valuable. There is NO AUTHORITY on this. Not I, not Konchock, not God, not medical research. The ONLY authority is YOU. YOU are the only one who can experience your life. Others may help you to new experiences, or assist you in locating or removing blocks to a more satisfying spiritual life, but YOU have to do the work. Talking with those who have gone before might benefit both you and others. Fear is an obstacle. An excellent case can be made that fear is the ONLY obstacle. Toss out fear and just say what your experience is. > ondine abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-953-1022349258-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 25 17:54:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.84]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4PHsMS14575 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 17:54:22 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-953-1022349258-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 17:54:18 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 25 May 2002 17:54:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 79061 invoked from network); 25 May 2002 17:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2002 17:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2002 17:54:17 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4PHsGP19834; Sat, 25 May 2002 17:54:16 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 17:54:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 180 On Sat, 25 May 2002, justintonation wrote: > Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help > > .....snips...... > > I have put the glossary on the my partial mirror > http://universalconsiouspractice.bravepages.com > > There was a bug where in Netscape where people could not see > the text. I have put the code through Mac tidy and hopefully it > should be okay. I got PAGE NOT FOUND ON SERVER message just now. Yesterday, when I tried to access Konchoks's page from yours, I got a "file type: octet-stream, Dowload or Cancel?" abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-954-1022356193-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 25 19:49:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.104]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4PJnvl01460 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 19:49:57 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-954-1022356193-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 19:49:53 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 25 May 2002 19:49:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 66693 invoked from network); 25 May 2002 19:49:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2002 19:49:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2002 19:49:52 -0000 Received: from du-031-0028.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.28] helo=oemcomputer) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17BhXz-0006KK-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 25 May 2002 20:49:51 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c20425$4e0bea60$1c8e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: "UCP List" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 20:49:29 +0100 Subject: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 181 Who on the list can not get access to alt.ucp? Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-955-1022358064-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat May 25 20:21:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4PKL9I21990 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 20:21:09 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-955-1022358064-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 25 May 2002 20:21:05 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 25 May 2002 20:21:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 78148 invoked from network); 25 May 2002 20:21:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 25 May 2002 20:21:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 May 2002 20:21:04 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4PKL2p28473; Sat, 25 May 2002 20:21:02 GMT To: UCP List In-Reply-To: <001001c20425$4e0bea60$1c8e7ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 20:21:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] ALT.UCP Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 182 On Sat, 25 May 2002, Neal Pardoe wrote: > Who on the list can not get access to alt.ucp? > > Neal. I can't. (except for borsen.dk - 5 messages) abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-956-1022377617-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 26 01:47:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4Q1l2g24075 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 01:47:02 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-956-1022377617-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 01:46:58 -0000 X-Sender: dn6246@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 26 May 2002 01:46:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 80168 invoked from network); 26 May 2002 01:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 May 2002 01:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2002 01:46:56 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.163] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 01:46:56 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020524125224.00da5b78@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "dn6246" X-Originating-IP: 18.51.0.124 X-Yahoo-Profile: dn6246 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 01:46:54 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Archive 2001-2002 uploaded to UCP-ListFiles section Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 183 Hi KP, --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > >From: dn6246@m... > >Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@y... > >Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 15:11:32 EDT > >Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Archive 2001-2002 uploaded to UCP- ListFiles > section > > [posted to AU and ACT] > > At 03:11 PM 5/24/2002 EDT > Alex Buksdorf wrote > >Hi KP and All, > > HI! > > >Sorry KP for editing your posts, of course you are > >right completely, but I started archiving a long > >time ago for my own purpouses and didn't intend > >to publish it. It was already in this edited form > >and I didn't save the original posts, the fact > >that I now regret. > > Thanks for filling in the picture! > I understand much better now. I'm glad that misunderstanding is cleared now :) > I feel a little silly about my response. > > >Now when UCP-List came around > >and especially when Justin desided to write > >a UCP book, I thought that publishing the archive > >would be helpful. > > YES! IT IS! > > IT IS *EXTREMELY* VALUABLE! > > >Anyway, I think to have this archive is better than no archive. > > YES! > > I HAVE SAID SEVERAL TIMES > I AM *THRILLED* TO HAVE IT! > > I HAVE LINKS IN MY SIG AND ON THE UCP SITE! > > ============================================== > WHEN I GET TO IT, I'LL PUT THEM ON MY UCP SITE TOO! > ============================================== > > Bug me if it takes too long, > I'm overwhelmed right now. > At least I'm linking to it now. > > >The main bodies of the posts > >are intact, only signatures are missing. > > I misunderstood you! > > It any case, even if it was as I misunderstood, > that is clearly MUCH better than NO archives! > > I was mostly annoyed by MY misunderstanding > that you had edited my posts TO publish them. > > >In order to make it right, I need to go to Google > >Usenet archives and start from scratch, which > >will take LOTS of time. > > I understand! > > >I don't know if and when I can get to it. > > I understand! > > It may very well not be worth the time! > > Maybe we should just be *THANKFUL* for > your contributioin and forget about fooling > around with it? You have the key parts > for reference and google.com should > have the full text for the historical record. > > >Of course from now on I'll be archiving in full. > > Way Cool! > > >For now, what do you think I should do with > >this archive: > > > >1) leave it as it is? > > YES! > > Perhaps simply add a paragraph of instruction > for how to get the original google.com? OK, I will. > Now that I know it is only the sigs which are missing, > it seems relatively UNimportant to me. I was mostly > annoyed by MY misunderstanding of your intention. > > >2) take it down? > > NO! > > NO! > > NO! > > IT IS A *VERY* VALUABLE RESOURCE! > > I AM VERY GRATEFUL TO YOU FOR IT! > > Someone else recently offered to host it too! > The more copies on web sites, the better! > Especially if they are open-access rather > than hidden behind yahoo's yahoo bullshit! > > >3) rename as "Quotes from UCP discussions" > > or smth similar? > > Just post a little note so people understand > EXACTLY WHAT IT *IS*, and don't think it's > the entire unaltered text. You already do that! > > >Other suggestions? > > I think that covers it! > > > > CONGRATULATIONS ON > YOUR ALT.UCP VICTORY! It is not mine. My contribution is UCP-List and UCP Archive. The credit for alt.ucp goes entirely to Alexander Kopke. > You have made several *MAJOR* > contributions to UCP . . . already! Well, some, yeah, but the MAJOR contribution is yours, which is hard to cap :) Thanks, Alex Buksdorf. > >See also comments below. > > > >Net Prophet wrote: > >> > >> [second reply by KP] > >> > >> At 04:50 PM 5/14/2002 -0000, Alex Buksdorf wrote: > >> >Hello All, > >> > > >> >I finally uploaded long promised UCP Archive to > >> >the UCP-List File section, so far only for > >> >2001 & 2002 (Jan-Apr). > >> > > >> >I'm still working on 1999 & 2000. > >> > > >> >I'm gonna update it every month. > >> > > >> >I also uploaded the complete TechTalks Series > >> >(some are missing on the UCP websight). > >> > > >> >UCP Archive is compressed into a number of zip-files. > >> > > >> >Here is the Readme file included in each zip-file: > >> > > >> >===================================================================== > >> > > >> > READ THIS FIRST: > >> > > >> >UCP Archive includes many posts on > >> >the subject of UCP from the Usenet newsgroup > >> >alt.clearing.technology (ACT) from 1999 to > >> >present (and now also from UCP-List and alt.ucp). > >> > > >> >It contains a wealth of UCP discussions which > >> >clarify many UCP points, success stories, > >> >session reports, UCP news, etc. > >> > > >> >You can find UCP Archive at the UCP-List > >> >Files Section: > >> > > >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > >> > > >> >It consists of a number of zipped files, which > >> >you can download to your hard drive, unzip > >> >to a folder by any of zip-unzip programs like > >> >Winzip and read off-line. > >> > > >> >The posts are arranged in chronological order. > >> > > >> >Names of the files containing posts has the > >> >following structure: > >> > > >> >YYYY-MM-DD HH-MM , > >> > > >> >where > >> >YYYY-MM-DD - date of the post, > >> >HH-MM - time of the post (GMT), > >> > - full or partial post subject. > >> > > >> > > >> >In order to make UCP Archive more compact and to > >> >avoid redandencies I did the following: > >> > >> Dear Alex: > >> > >> I am STILL *THRILLED* that you have archived my posts, > >> but upon reconsideration I have STRONG disagreement with > >> your editing of my posts. I *DO NOT* WRITE TO BE MORE > >> COMPACT. I WRITE TO SAY EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE TO > >> SAY. IT TAKES EXACTLY AS MANY WORDS AS I USE. > >> > >> I DO NOT WRITE to avoid redundancies. That is YOUR purpose. > > >Yes, it was, when I was archiving just for myself. > > I understand that now! > > Thanks for clarifying it! > > >> >1) Since majority of the posts are by Konchok Penday (KP) > >> >and his signature is pretty long, I excluded it from > >> >his posts. You can see KP's current signature at > >> > > >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/UCP%20Archive/KP% 27s% > >> >20Signature > >> > >> THIS IS ALTER-IS/SUBSTITUE/LIABILITY. > >> > >> I *OBJECT* to having my posts edited. > >> > >> MY SIG IS THE MOST IMPORTANT > >> PART OF EVERY POST I WRITE. > >> > >> My continuously changing sig file > >> IS PART OF EVERY POST. > >> > >> It's a SIGnificant part of the history. > >> > >> My old sigs are *NOT* EQUAL to my new sigs. > >> > >> DELETING MY SIG and then replacing it with > >> a DIFFERENT sig is MISREPRESENTATION. > >> > >> That's like having an abridged version of the constitution, > >> which leaves off the signatures to save space in books. > >> > >> If you are going to archive my posts, archive MY POSTS. > >> > >> Don't archive what you think I ought to have written INSTEAD. > >> > >> If people don't want to read my sig . . . FINE! > >> > >> If people DO want to read my sig . . . NOW THEY CAN'T! > >> > >> If saving bandwidth and hard drive space was > >> my governing purpose, I WOULD NOT SPEAK. > >> > >> I HAVE *NO* SUCH PURPOSE! > >> > >> IT'S NOT RELEVANT > >> TO MY PURPOSES. > >> > >> > or > >> >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/main/sigfile.htm > >> > > >> >2) Because KP usually replies to UCP posts by others and > >> >quotes them in full, I didn't include original posts in > >> >this case, only KP's replies. > >> > >> Again, this is a MISREPRESENTATION of > >> both my post and what I was replying to. > >> > >> The original poster has a right to have his words > >> read INTACT AND UNINTERRUPTED. I leave > >> the original post intact when I reply to it when I > >> think it SHOULD be there. You cannot follow the > >> sense of it smoothly when it's all chopped up by > >> my line-by-line or even phrase-by-phrase replies. > >> > >> YOU NEED *BOTH* SECTIONS OF TEXT. > >> > >> I LEAVE IT IN BECAUSE I *WANT* IT LEFT IN! > >> > >> BECAUSE IT'S *NOT THE SAME* WITHOUT IT. > > >No, this is not the case. Maybe I didn't state it clearly: > > >When the original message is included in your post, I didn't > >remove it from your post, I just removed the post by > >original poster from the archive. Your post is intact, > >except for the signature. Sorry about that. > > MY misunderstanding! > > SORRY ABOUT THAT! > > >> >3) I didn't include KP's slicing & dicing posts unless > >> >they explicitly discuss/clarify some UCP points. > >> > >> Leaving out entire posts is FINE with me. > >> EDITING my posts sincerely annoys me. > >> > >> Once you have deleted WHAT I am replying > >> to, PLUS my sig, all we have to do is delete > >> all the insults and run spell check to convert > >> Konchok Penday into KEN DOLL BLATHER. > >> > >> To save 1/10 of a second download time! > >> > >> WHAT'S UP WIT DAT? > >> > >> It looks like a SUBSTITUTE purpose to me! > >> > >> How many tenths of a second does it take > >> to *WONDER* WHAT WAS CENSORED, > >> WHICH NOW CANNOT BE UNDERSTOOD. > >> > >> Once you start *ANY EDITING*, you are > >> NO LONGER ARCHIVING, YOU ARE NOW > >> ALTER-ISING and making UNKNOWABLE. > >> > >> I said what I said. > >> > >> *ANYTHING* else is > >> a misrepresentation. > >> > >> I'd MUCH rarther have edited archives than no archives. > >> > >> I'D *MUCH* RATHER HAVE *ACCURATE* ARCHIVES! > >> > >> Which means . . . *ZERO* EDITS! > >> > >> >Alex Buksdorf, > >> >UCP-List owner > >> > >> Again, I am THRILLED you are archiving my posts! > >> > >> However, to be honest and blunt, I must add that > >> I am NOT happy you spent what must be HUGE > >> amounts of your time ALTER-ISING MY POSTS > >> to conform them to how you think they should be. > >> > >> I *DO NOT* think of that as an improvement. > >> > >> I'd *MUCH* rather have them INTACT! > >> > >> If that takes an extra three minutes to download > >> > >> . . . SO WHAT? It's not relevant! > >> > >> Best Wishes, > >> > >> WE'LCOME TO > >> *ACTUALLITY!* > >> > >> THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR > >> ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! > >> > >> RESET YOUR SELF! > >> REBOOT YOUR MIND! > >> RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS > >> REINSTALL RATIONALITY > >> DEBUG AND UPGRADE > >> YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING > >> SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! > >> N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* > >> > >> YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY > >> FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. > >> > >> FIND OUT HOW > >> TO *FIND OUT!* > >> > >> WHAT YOU DO > >> IS UP TO YOU! > >> > >> THE WAY > >> TO *SEE* > >> *IS* UCP! > >> > >> *DO* UCP > >> AND SEE! > >> > >> O > >> --- ) > >> \ > >> > >> Konchok Penday > >> > >> Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER > >> Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot > >> http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm > >> Formulator and Disseminator of the > >> Universal Conscious Practice: > >> http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > >> Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev > >> Technical hExcellence Award :-) > >> Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: > >> http://net-prophet.net/gc/ > >> Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: > >> http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ > >> REvolutionary Architectural System: > >> http://net-prophet.net/subs/ > >> Better Banjo Bureau > >> http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ > >> Cottage Industries > >> http://net-prophet.net/ci/ > >> > >> ########################################### > >> > >> N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! > >> WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! > >> YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! > >> http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > >> > >> *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! > >> *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! > >> > >> YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! > >> USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! > >> > >> UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS > >> SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, > >> ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! > >> > >> ########################################### > >> > >> Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@n... via > >> paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! > >> > >> GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net > >> RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! > >> EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! > >> UU + SOMinisters: UCP IS *THE* RATIONAL MIND! > >> > >> UCP USENET POSTS: alt.clearing.technology, and > >> coming soon to an ALT.UCP newsgroup near you! > >> Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm > >> ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! > >> UCP *NEWS SERVER* COMING SOON: ucp.ath.cx > >> > >> "UCP EMAIL LIST" > >> To subscribe to this group, send an email to: > >> ucplist-subscribe@y... > >> > >> UCP POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: > >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > >> UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR NOW AT: > >> http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ > >> > >> >===================================================================== > >> > >> >Any critisizm and suggestions welcome. > >> > > >> >If anyone wants to upload any other UCP materials, > >> >please let me know. > >> > > >> > > >> >Best wishes, > >> >Alex > >> > > >> >http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/ - N-Lightenment Now for free > >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/ - join UCP List > > > >Thanks for correcting my mistake, > >Alex Buksdorf > > =================================== > THANKS FOR CORRECTING MY MISTAKES! > =================================== > > > KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-957-1022382232-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 26 03:03:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4Q33uh15240 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 03:03:56 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-957-1022382232-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 03:03:52 -0000 X-Sender: dn6246@softhome.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 26 May 2002 03:03:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 40292 invoked from network); 26 May 2002 03:03:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 May 2002 03:03:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO softhome.net) (66.54.152.30) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2002 03:03:51 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (uid 417) by softhome.net with local; Sat, 25 May 2002 21:03:51 -0600 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com X-Sender: dn6246@softhome.net Message-ID: From: dn6246@softhome.net X-Originating-IP: [18.51.0.124] X-Yahoo-Profile: dn6246 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 21:03:51 -0600 Subject: [UCP-List] Don't put NGs names in CAPs while posting to Usenet Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 184 Hello All, I just got the access to alt.ucp from the server news.meganetnews.com . I pay 5.95/month for it because I couldn't find a good free public server that carries alt.ucp, ucp.ath.cx doesn't work for me. So this morning KP posted the message "N-LIGHTENMENT NOW!", which he crossposted to ACT and several other NGs. He put the NG names in all caps, which prevented propagation of the post to most servers (which normally list NGs in small leters). My server lists it as ALT.UCP (and I think KP's also). I guess this is why I've got the post. So I tested this with several servers: I replied to KP's post 2 times - with and without caps. I bet everybody could see only my 2d reply to KP which starts with "Second try:" and my test message "Testing with alt.ucp", but not "Testing with ALT.UCP" Alex Buksdorf ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-958-1022382340-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 26 03:05:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.83]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4Q35h616408 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 03:05:43 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-958-1022382340-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 03:05:40 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 26 May 2002 03:05:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 98747 invoked from network); 26 May 2002 03:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 May 2002 03:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.77) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2002 03:05:39 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 May 2002 20:05:39 -0700 Received: from 203.79.65.178 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 26 May 2002 03:05:39 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2002 03:05:39.0369 (UTC) FILETIME=[36DF1190:01C20462] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [203.79.65.178] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 03:05:39 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 185 >From: Abba Noor >Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Physical manifestations of spiritual illness > > > Well, I am trying - as I think I mentioned before, she (note pronouns) > >Oh - What am I supposed to know about lesbian love? I hear there are some good instructional videos on the market!!! ;-) >Despite some >attempts on my part, they won't let me into the club. ;) *LOL* If you really want to be a girl, the technology *does* exist these days... If not, I hope you meet a couple of willing bi girls some day! >When you begin asking off-hand questions she can't answer, I predict she >will become interested. *sigh* I've been asking her questions she can't answer since day one of our relationship. She finds it nigh-impossible to talk about her feelings. Which is why introducing her to UCP, a process based mainly on talking, seems very difficult. >--- > > >From: Abba Noor > > >There are great rewards in conscious sexuality. Perhaps I > > >will say more on this subject if anyone is interested. > > > > Please do. ;-) > >OK - I'll put it on my 'to do' list. But remember, my response above >still holds. Still, I think it may be of value, but *perhaps* more to >males than females because of male physiology. But the cultural and >spiritual aspects are very much the same for both sexes. > >Stay tuned! I will. Now I'm *really* intrigued. > >I have my own suspicions about the possibilities of direct > > empathic/energy connections in such high-tone relationships/groups, but >I'll > > wait for more research before talking about them here. > >Please don't wait. It might be immensely valuable. Er... okay. I suppose all I really have to say at this point is that I think that when two people reach the level of Aesthetics/Perception with one another (tone 6), then there is a direct connection on an energy level; that is, one can actually feel the other's feelings in their own body/soul. This makes for some great sex, among other things. ;-) I suppose I should say that I've always had a tendency towards such empathy; even when I was stuck below-death I could directly "feel" others. Of course, at that stage it scared the living hell out of me, and I tried to alternately block others out completely, or I internalised these feelings and mistook them for my own. When they were hostile feelings - which they often were in my childhood - that allowed me to implant some *very* nasty neuroses. >Fear is an obstacle. An excellent case can be made that fear is the >ONLY >obstacle. In my experience, that seems *very* true. 1.0 seems to be a *big* hump. ondine _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-959-1022397516-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 26 07:18:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4Q7IdX06681 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 07:18:39 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-959-1022397516-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 07:18:36 -0000 X-Sender: justintonation@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 26 May 2002 07:18:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 60462 invoked from network); 26 May 2002 07:18:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 May 2002 07:18:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.64) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2002 07:18:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.184] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 07:18:35 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "justintonation" X-Originating-IP: 63.60.239.102 X-Yahoo-Profile: justintonation MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 07:18:32 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 186 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Sat, 25 May 2002, justintonation wrote: > > > Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help > > > .....snips...... > > > > I have put the glossary on the my partial mirror > > http://universalconsiouspractice.bravepages.com > > > > There was a bug where in Netscape where people could not see > > the text. I have put the code through Mac tidy and hopefully it > > should be okay. > > I got PAGE NOT FOUND ON SERVER message just now. > > Yesterday, when I tried to access Konchoks's page from yours, I got a > "file type: octet-stream, Dowload or Cancel?" > > abner > > abner@s... Sorry guys. The url is the problem there notice how I did not type a c after the s in conscious? The correct url [this time cutting and pasting] is: http://universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ Does *this* one work for Netscape users? Justin ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-960-1022427546-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 26 15:39:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4QFd9T22487 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 15:39:09 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-960-1022427546-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 15:39:06 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 26 May 2002 15:39:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 65075 invoked from network); 26 May 2002 15:39:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 May 2002 15:39:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2002 15:39:05 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4QFd2121056; Sun, 26 May 2002 15:39:02 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 15:39:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Feedback::Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 187 On Sun, 26 May 2002, justintonation wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > On Sat, 25 May 2002, justintonation wrote: > > > the text. I have put the code through Mac tidy and hopefully it > > > should be okay. I wonder why it did not put the DOCTYPE declaration in. . . Once you get that it, then you can verify the page with the VALIDATOR at W3.org > > I got PAGE NOT FOUND ON SERVER message just now. Yes. That's fixed. > > Yesterday, when I tried to access Konchoks's page from yours, > I got a > > "file type: octet-stream, Dowload or Cancel?" This link works too. > Sorry guys. The url is the problem there notice how I did not type > a c after the s in conscious? The correct url [this time cutting and > pasting] is: > > http://universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ > > Does *this* one work for Netscape users? If you validate the code, you won't have to worry about this. I am on a Windows box where I am now, and it doesn't have Nscape or I would check it for you. > Justin Thanks, Justin. This is a wonderful project of yours. It's just great! abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-961-1022435061-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 26 17:44:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4QHiOP28719 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 17:44:24 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-961-1022435061-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 17:44:21 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 26 May 2002 17:44:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 9554 invoked from network); 26 May 2002 17:44:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 May 2002 17:44:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2002 17:44:19 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4QHiHT08989; Sun, 26 May 2002 17:44:17 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 17:44:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 188 On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > >From: Abba Noor > >Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Physical manifestations of spiritual illness > > > > > Well, I am trying - as I think I mentioned before, she (note pronouns) > > > >Oh - What am I supposed to know about lesbian love? > > I hear there are some good instructional videos on the market!!! ;-) They just cover the mechanics. I'm more interested in what's going on inside. > >Despite some > >attempts on my part, they won't let me into the club. ;) > > *LOL* If you really want to be a girl, the technology *does* exist these > days... Gosh. . .you want to join a chess club, and they say, Well you gotta get a lobotomy first; you want to join a golf club, and they say, You gotta get yr right arm amputated first; you want to join a swimming club, and they say, You gotta get those feet off first. No thanks. I guess I'll just have to wallow in ignorance. ;) I'm every inch a man, from my earliest memories always interested in girls. I want to KNOW women, not become one. If not, I hope you meet a couple of willing bi girls some day! I was in love with one once. Am still. Will always be. > >When you begin asking off-hand questions she can't answer, I predict she > >will become interested. > > *sigh* I've been asking her questions she can't answer since day one of our > relationship. She finds it nigh-impossible to talk about her feelings. Which > is why introducing her to UCP, a process based mainly on talking, seems very > difficult. Understood. I would guess that you are frustrated by this, maybe even in despair. Is that close? What kind of response do you get when you talk about YOUR feelings? > >--- > > > >From: Abba Noor > > > >There are great rewards in conscious sexuality. Perhaps I > > > >will say more on this subject if anyone is interested. > > > > > > Please do. ;-) > > > >OK - I'll put it on my 'to do' list. But remember, my response above > >still holds. Still, I think it may be of value, but *perhaps* more to > >males than females because of male physiology. But the cultural and > >spiritual aspects are very much the same for both sexes. > > > >Stay tuned! > > I will. Now I'm *really* intrigued. > > > >I have my own suspicions about the possibilities of direct > > >empathic/energy connections in such high-tone relationships/groups, > > >but I'll wait for more research before talking about them here. > > > >Please don't wait. It might be immensely valuable. > > Er... okay. I suppose all I really have to say at this point is that I think > that when two people reach the level of Aesthetics/Perception with one > another (tone 6), then there is a direct connection on an energy level; that > is, one can actually feel the other's feelings in their own body/soul. This > makes for some great sex, among other things. ;-) Exactly! I haven't pegged it on the tone scale, yet - the lowest point where that can occur. But the SEX band in the below death regions can be understood as a lower harmonic of SuperSex upscale. Upscale it's not a *band*, simply a capability. > I suppose I should say that I've always had a tendency towards such empathy; > even when I was stuck below-death I could directly "feel" others. Of course, > at that stage it scared the living hell out of me, and I tried to > alternately block others out completely, or I internalised these feelings > and mistook them for my own. When they were hostile feelings - which they > often were in my childhood - that allowed me to implant some *very* nasty > neuroses. That happens to many of us. Children are extremely sensitive to the feelings of others, the family atmosphere, the social atmosphere. Then we teach them to block those feelings and perceptions, through very suppressive tactics. These include denial and invalidation. The results are catastrophic, and sometimes take years to overcome. > >Fear is an obstacle. An excellent case can be made that fear is the >ONLY > >obstacle. > > In my experience, that seems *very* true. 1.0 seems to be a *big* hump. Thanks for your thoughts, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-962-1022442386-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 26 19:46:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4QJkT205109 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 19:46:29 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-962-1022442386-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 19:46:26 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 26 May 2002 19:46:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 6563 invoked from network); 26 May 2002 19:46:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 May 2002 19:46:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2002 19:46:24 -0000 Received: from du-035-0253.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.143.253] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17C3yA-0009Vt-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Sun, 26 May 2002 20:46:22 +0100 Message-ID: <011501c204ed$fb1346e0$fd8f7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 20:33:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 189 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Abba Noor" To: Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death > On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > > > >From: Abba Noor > > >Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Physical manifestations of spiritual illness > > > > > > > Well, I am trying - as I think I mentioned before, she (note pronouns) > > > > > >Oh - What am I supposed to know about lesbian love? > > > > I hear there are some good instructional videos on the market!!! ;-) > > They just cover the mechanics. I'm more interested in what's going on > inside. > > > >Despite some > > >attempts on my part, they won't let me into the club. ;) > > > > *LOL* If you really want to be a girl, the technology *does* exist these > > days... > > Gosh. . .you want to join a chess club, and they say, Well you gotta get > a lobotomy first; you want to join a golf club, and they say, You gotta > get yr right arm amputated first; you want to join a swimming club, and > they say, You gotta get those feet off first. > > No thanks. I guess I'll just have to wallow in ignorance. ;) > I'm every inch a man, from my earliest memories always interested in > girls. I want to KNOW women, not become one. > > If not, I hope you meet a couple of willing bi girls some day! > > I was in love with one once. Am still. Will always be. > > > >When you begin asking off-hand questions she can't answer, I predict she > > >will become interested. > > > > *sigh* I've been asking her questions she can't answer since day one of our > > relationship. She finds it nigh-impossible to talk about her feelings. Which > > is why introducing her to UCP, a process based mainly on talking, seems very > > difficult. Sure, most people are slaves to their emotions. They are NOT in control of them, and I would state (perhaps tongue in cheek is not appropriate here), that below death, emotions are seen as enemies. The poor person doesn't even know who they are, they just *suffer these emotions in mysterious ways. Too much emotion = don't look in that area! > > Understood. > > I would guess that you are frustrated by this, maybe even in despair. > > Is that close? > > What kind of response do you get when you talk about YOUR feelings? > > > >--- > > > > >From: Abba Noor > > > > >There are great rewards in conscious sexuality. Perhaps I > > > > >will say more on this subject if anyone is interested. > > > > > > > > Please do. ;-) > > > > > >OK - I'll put it on my 'to do' list. But remember, my response above > > >still holds. Still, I think it may be of value, but *perhaps* more to > > >males than females because of male physiology. But the cultural and > > >spiritual aspects are very much the same for both sexes. > > > > > >Stay tuned! > > > > I will. Now I'm *really* intrigued. > > > > > >I have my own suspicions about the possibilities of direct > > > >empathic/energy connections in such high-tone relationships/groups, > > > >but I'll wait for more research before talking about them here. > > > > > >Please don't wait. It might be immensely valuable. > > > > Er... okay. I suppose all I really have to say at this point is that I think > > that when two people reach the level of Aesthetics/Perception with one > > another (tone 6), then there is a direct connection on an energy level; that > > is, one can actually feel the other's feelings in their own body/soul. This > > makes for some great sex, among other things. ;-) Yes. I noticed something similar during my first act of Witnessing for another. >From my post "Witnessing"; One thing we both noticed was the depth of rappor we enjoyed during the session. I noticed that while he was describing some scene from his past, I was mocking up this scene myself so clearly and vivid! Great duplication! Perhaps the band of HARMONY comes into play here. -------------end-------------- I would now say that the band of Harmony definitely does come into play. I may even have been seeing his pictures directly, I don't know. As you say Ondine, about others emotions, you mistook them for your own. I have more to see. :) > > Exactly! I haven't pegged it on the tone scale, yet - the lowest point > where that can occur. But the SEX band in the below death regions can be > understood as a lower harmonic of SuperSex upscale. Is that as in harmonic activity of the group (more than one person). > Upscale it's not a > *band*, simply a capability. Interesting point here. I just had a look at the Chart and see that eat and sex are basically lower harmonics of Harmony. This seems to fit well. First that below death there is of course existence through duality, or pretended self. The urge to satisfy cravings for eat/sex seem very much self-gratification activities (regardless of whether they are survival or not). And most importantly, (goddammit, I see these things so clearly now, conceptually, but sometimes, like now, I have to struggle to put it into language!)..a demonstration of group *exploitation (which is the twist to group harmony). > > > I suppose I should say that I've always had a tendency towards such empathy; > > even when I was stuck below-death I could directly "feel" others. Of course, > > at that stage it scared the living hell out of me, and I tried to > > alternately block others out completely, or I internalised these feelings > > and mistook them for my own. When they were hostile feelings - which they > > often were in my childhood - that allowed me to implant some *very* nasty > > neuroses. Yes, we never miss an opportunity ;_( )) > > That happens to many of us. Children are extremely sensitive to the > feelings of others, the family atmosphere, the social atmosphere. Then > we teach them to block those feelings and perceptions, through very > suppressive tactics. These include denial and invalidation. The results > are catastrophic, and sometimes take years to overcome. Or lifetimes even! > > > >Fear is an obstacle. An excellent case can be made that fear is the >ONLY > > >obstacle. Or any emotional tone that is a BIG problem to the individual. I don't see Fear as anything more special than any other tone. It is US who are special and have the unique experiences of the emotional tones. > > > > In my experience, that seems *very* true. 1.0 seems to be a *big* hump. > > Thanks for your thoughts, > > abner > > abner@sdf.lonestar.org > > Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-963-1022453123-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 26 22:45:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4QMjPN08200 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 22:45:26 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-963-1022453123-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 22:45:23 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 26 May 2002 22:45:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 23803 invoked from network); 26 May 2002 22:45:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 May 2002 22:45:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.117) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2002 22:45:20 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 May 2002 15:45:20 -0700 Received: from 130.195.196.201 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 26 May 2002 22:45:19 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2002 22:45:20.0119 (UTC) FILETIME=[037C6870:01C20507] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [130.195.196.201] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 22:45:19 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 190 >From: "justintonation" >http://universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ > >Does *this* one work for Netscape users? Yep, it's working fine for me now. One point though; I think you should include KP's latest edition of the Chart, with the newly researched tone levels and everything. ondine _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-964-1022453912-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 26 22:58:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4QMwZN17642 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 22:58:35 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-964-1022453912-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 22:58:32 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 26 May 2002 22:58:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 51105 invoked from network); 26 May 2002 22:58:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 May 2002 22:58:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.20) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2002 22:58:30 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 May 2002 15:58:30 -0700 Received: from 130.195.196.201 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 26 May 2002 22:58:29 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2002 22:58:30.0067 (UTC) FILETIME=[DA54E830:01C20508] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [130.195.196.201] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 22:58:29 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 191 >From: Abba Noor > > I hear there are some good instructional videos on the market!!! ;-) > >They just cover the mechanics. I'm more interested in what's going on >inside. In my experience, beneath the layers of social conditioning and different hormonal balances, I doubt there's any *essential* difference between the genders. > > *sigh* I've been asking her questions she can't answer since day one of >our > > relationship. She finds it nigh-impossible to talk about her feelings. >Which > > is why introducing her to UCP, a process based mainly on talking, seems >very > > difficult. > >Understood. > >I would guess that you are frustrated by this, maybe even in despair. > >Is that close? Something like that. (I have actually wondered whether Frustration should have a place on the chart...) >What kind of response do you get when you talk about YOUR feelings? Usually a caring and sympathetic one, although she usually can't give me any feedback; and she gets scared and distant when my feelings are intense. I'm trying at the moment to get her to use some basic UCP tools; like the magic question "Ever felt like that before?" if I seem really upset about something inconsequential. >Exactly! I haven't pegged it on the tone scale, yet - the lowest point >where that can occur. But the SEX band in the below death regions can be >understood as a lower harmonic of SuperSex upscale. Upscale it's not a >*band*, simply a capability. Well, there we go - the Sex band is at -6, so my estimate of +6 sounds like a good starting point. ondine _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-965-1022454538-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun May 26 23:09:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4QN91K24989 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 23:09:01 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-965-1022454538-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 May 2002 23:08:58 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 26 May 2002 23:08:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 88461 invoked from network); 26 May 2002 23:08:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 26 May 2002 23:08:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.110) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 May 2002 23:08:57 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 May 2002 16:08:57 -0700 Received: from 130.195.196.201 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 26 May 2002 23:08:57 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 May 2002 23:08:57.0586 (UTC) FILETIME=[505CB520:01C2050A] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [130.195.196.201] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 23:08:57 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 192 >From: "Neal Pardoe" >Sure, most people are slaves to their emotions. They are NOT in control of >them, and I would state (perhaps tongue in cheek is not appropriate here), >that below death, emotions are seen as enemies. That sounds very familiar. My partner will pretty much do *anything* to prevent herself from feeling anything negative - which pretty much impedes her ability to feel much *positive*. >The poor person doesn't even >know who they are, they just *suffer these emotions in mysterious ways. Mystery? Hmmm, yes, sounds like the fact that she apparently can't remember most of her childhood might have some relevance here. >Too much emotion = don't look in that area! Or "pretend to look and then say there's nothing there". >I would now say that the band of Harmony definitely does come into play. I >may even have been seeing his pictures directly, I don't know. As you say >Ondine, about others emotions, you mistook them for your own. I have more >to >see. :) Well, as we've been saying, Harmony is about direct connection, creating a "We", so this is beginning to make a lot of sense. It also makes sense to me that you can't form a "We" by dissolving ("not-ising") the self, but only by finding and being solid in the real "Me". >Interesting point here. I just had a look at the Chart and see that eat and >sex are basically lower harmonics of Harmony. This seems to fit well. Of course. In the havingness scale, that translates as "Had" - that is, down there you feel an unfillable lack (i.e. having lost contact with your real self), which you try to fill with other people (Sex) or inanimate objects (Eat). ondine _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-966-1022458699-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 00:18:22 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.84]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4R0IM022607 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 00:18:22 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-966-1022458699-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 00:18:19 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 00:18:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 4072 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 00:18:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 00:18:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 00:18:18 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.173]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA03524 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 19:18:15 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020526171408.10880268@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 17:14:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Don't put NGs names in CAPs while posting to Usenet Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 193 listmailed to: ucplist@yahoogroups.com, newsgroups: alt.ucp,ALT.UCP At 09:03 PM 5/25/2002 -0600, Alex Buksdorf wrote: >Hello All, > >I just got the access to alt.ucp from the server > news.meganetnews.com . >I pay 5.95/month for it because I couldn't find >a good free public server that carries alt.ucp, >ucp.ath.cx doesn't work for me. teranews.com has it for sure because I get it from them. You need a charge or debit card number, but they have not charged me anything. >So this morning KP posted the message >"N-LIGHTENMENT NOW!", which he crossposted >to ACT and several other NGs. He put the NG names >in all caps, which prevented propagation of the >post to most servers (which normally list NGs >in small leters). I got most of them from the teranews server, even though I GET the group names in lower case newsgroups, but perhaps internally on their own server it's not a problem. What an dunce that KP is sometimes! He writes a post asking why ALT.UCP is in CAPS on his newsgroup list, and then posts to ALL CAPS group names. [I cut and pasted a list without thinking about the application.] I still don't know how ALT.UCP came up downloading newsgroup names from teranews, not lower case alt.ucp as expected, but I and edited my list with notepad so it's in lower case now. We'll see what happens. I'll post N-Lightenment Now! to the same list in lower case and see how far it goes. Anybody else wind up seeing ALT.UCP instead of alt.ucp? I'm postint this reply to both groups, to see if that reaches any more people. I'm also reposting a letter from teranews support [they actually DO write you back with tech support for a FREE news feed] about propagation problems for alt.ucp. >My server lists it as ALT.UCP (and I think KP's also). Oh! Maybe it comes from a newgroup command in the wrong case. I SEE the newgroup messages being posted at control.newgroup so I KNOW they are in lower case. WHERE did the CAPS newsgroup "ALT.UCP" come from? ANOTHER MYSTERY! We could speculate endlessly . . . but perhaps some testing by doing will give us more info. >I guess this is why >I've got the post. So I tested this with several >servers: I replied to KP's post 2 times - >with and without caps. I bet everybody could >see only my 2d reply to KP which starts with >"Second try:" and my test message "Testing with alt.ucp", >but not "Testing with ALT.UCP" > >Alex Buksdorf ............break for usenet testing......... I see both "Testing with alt.ucp", AND "Testing with ALT.UCP" when my newsgroup list said ALT.UCP. See this test post I got on both teranews groups: alt.ucp,ALT.UCP TESTING ONLY: WORLD'S FIRST ALL.CAPS NEWSGROUP BORN! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp AND alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-967-1022459280-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 00:28:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4R0S2029529 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 00:28:03 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-967-1022459280-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 00:28:00 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 00:27:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 98068 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 00:27:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 00:27:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 00:27:59 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4R0RuS01216; Mon, 27 May 2002 00:27:56 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 00:27:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 194 Oh, you guys are good! Just zipping along! _______________________________________ On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 23:08:57 +0000 > From: Ondine Green > >From: "Neal Pardoe" > > >Sure, most people are slaves to their emotions. They are NOT in control of > >them, and I would state (perhaps tongue in cheek is not appropriate here), > >that below death, emotions are seen as enemies. Because of fear. Slaves because of fear! Not in control, because of fear of responsibility. Have feelings as enemies because feelings betray the facade of the false-self which is pretending to control. > That sounds very familiar. My partner will pretty much do *anything* to > prevent herself from feeling anything negative - which pretty much impedes > her ability to feel much *positive*. > > >The poor person doesn't even > >know who they are, they just *suffer these emotions in mysterious ways. > > Mystery? Hmmm, yes, sounds like the fact that she apparently can't remember > most of her childhood might have some relevance here. > > >Too much emotion = don't look in that area! > > Or "pretend to look and then say there's nothing there". Because afraid to confront the pain there? Again fear. > >I would now say that the band of Harmony definitely does come into play. I > >may even have been seeing his pictures directly, I don't know. As you say > >Ondine, about others emotions, you mistook them for your own. I have more > >to > >see. :) > > Well, as we've been saying, Harmony is about direct connection, creating a > "We", so this is beginning to make a lot of sense. It also makes sense to me > that you can't form a "We" by dissolving ("not-ising") the self, but only by > finding and being solid in the real "Me". Well said. > >Interesting point here. I just had a look at the Chart and see that eat and > >sex are basically lower harmonics of Harmony. This seems to fit well. > > Of course. In the havingness scale, that translates as "Had" - that is, down > there you feel an unfillable lack (i.e. having lost contact with your real > self), which you try to fill with other people (Sex) or inanimate objects > (Eat). Right on! > ondine Picking up the thread of the Genesis narrative, God comes to check up on things. Adam and Eve are hiding from him and have covered thamselves with leaves. They are afraid - so afraid they construct this falsity to hide behind. Eve blames the Snake, and Adam blames Eve. Neither takes responsibility; neither says, for instance, I am as you made me, free, independent and curious - thirsty for knowledge. Why then, knowing this, for what reason did you forbid what I have in fact done? Surely you must have known that I would do this. If indeed you are inclined to punish me, know then that your wrath is only against yourself. I am inclined to see the lower tone levels all as held together by fear. For instance SEX is fear of Energy, Enlightenment, Understanding, Communication, etc. The direct connection, the embodiment. EAT is the fear of feeding others. The fear of lack, scarcity. It's a non-communication, a non-communion in the same way SEX is a non-communion. I am looking for the root event, maybe the root betrayal, that precipitates this descent. Genesis fascinates me. It is so deep. abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-968-1022460901-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 00:55:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.78]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4R0t4023468 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 00:55:04 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-968-1022460901-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 00:55:01 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 00:55:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 96333 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 00:55:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 00:55:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 00:55:00 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.173]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA07900 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 19:54:57 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020526175124.1086b290@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 17:51:24 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: please carry ALT.UCP Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 195 Re: please carry ALT.UCP listmailed to: ucplist@yahoogroups.com, newsgroups: alt.ucp,ALT.UCP At 11:21 AM 5/26/2002 -0500, Tera News Support wrote: KP to teranews: >> However it is "ALT.UCP" in ALL.CAPS >> and ALL the other newsgroups are in >> lower case . . . as in "alt.ucp". >> >> WHY IS THIS? >> >> DOES THAT CAUSE A PROPAGATION PROBLEM? >> >> We are trying to get the newsgroup propagated, >> universally . . . but so far it's not doing very well. Tera News Support: >Yes, it will. My guess is you sent out a control newgroup message and >listed the group as "ALT.UCP". This is a totally different group >than "alt.ucp" and unfortunately some news servers for example, machines >running DNews, will never add the lower case version because of the upper >case version. >I highly doubt this group will every be accepted because of >two things: it was not discussed in alt.config Actually, it was discussed repeatedly, christinA simply "considers" that it was not discussed because the facts aren't convenient for her . . . >and two it's another top level group which we don't need. OK. We understand that YOU [as newsadmins, perhaps?] don't need it, but WE, as netizens interested in ucp, decided by open discussion on alt.clearing.technology and the ucplist that WE DO NEED IT, and as netizens we created it for OUR USE. We understand the arguments against acronym names, but after consideration and debate decided that WE need it for OUR purposes. The discussion of UCP on alt.clearing.technology is THOUSANDS of posts per year, and many of those at alt.clearing.technology would like us to post somewhere else. >Our policy is to add just about any group on request, Wonderful! I LIKE your policy! I also like your free news feed! I'm promoting you in my sig file! >but I doubt this group will ever propagate outside our servers. > >Tera News Support. Thanks very much! I appreciate your professional opinion! Any suggestions on how we can get propagation other . . . than people requesting it from their newsadmins? Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-969-1022463328-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 01:35:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.83]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4R1ZUm24830 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 01:35:31 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-969-1022463328-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 01:35:28 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 01:35:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 92470 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 01:35:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 01:35:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 01:35:26 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4R1ZN102964; Mon, 27 May 2002 01:35:23 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <011501c204ed$fb1346e0$fd8f7ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 01:35:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 196 On Sun, 26 May 2002, Neal Pardoe wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Abba Noor" > To: > Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 6:44 PM > Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death > > > On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > > > > > >From: Abba Noor [Ondine:] > > > *sigh* I've been asking her questions she can't answer since day > > > one of our relationship. She finds it nigh-impossible to talk > > > about her feelings. > > >Which is why introducing her to UCP, a process based mainly on > > >talking, seems very difficult. > > Sure, most people are slaves to their emotions. They are NOT in control of > them, and I would state (perhaps tongue in cheek is not appropriate here), > that below death, emotions are seen as enemies. The poor person doesn't even > know who they are, they just *suffer these emotions in mysterious ways. > > Too much emotion = don't look in that area! Sometinmes it can get in a ball. Too many undigested incidents; too much emotion, pain. Person knows it is there - but can't pick just one incident to talk about. Uncork the bottle and ALL the contents want to come out. So Can't say anything. That's why a Witness is needed. Someone who gives confidence that, however long it takes he will stay on board. > > > > Understood. > > > > I would guess that you are frustrated by this, maybe even in despair. > > > > Is that close? > > > > What kind of response do you get when you talk about YOUR feelings? > > > > > >--- > > > > > >From: Abba Noor > Yes. I noticed something similar during my first act of Witnessing for > another. > > >From my post "Witnessing"; > One thing we both noticed was the depth of rappor we enjoyed during the > session. I noticed that while he was describing some scene from his past, I > was mocking up this scene myself so clearly and vivid! Great duplication! > Perhaps the band of HARMONY comes into play here. > -------------end-------------- > > I would now say that the band of Harmony definitely does come into play. I > may even have been seeing his pictures directly, I don't know. As you say > Ondine, about others emotions, you mistook them for your own. I have more to > see. :) OK. That is deep rapport. > > Exactly! I haven't pegged it on the tone scale, yet - the lowest point > > where that can occur. But the SEX band in the below death regions can be > > understood as a lower harmonic of SuperSex upscale. > > Is that as in harmonic activity of the group (more than one person). > > > Upscale it's not a > > *band*, simply a capability. > > Interesting point here. I just had a look at the Chart and see that eat and > sex are basically lower harmonics of Harmony. This seems to fit well. First > that below death there is of course existence through duality, or pretended > self. The urge to satisfy cravings for eat/sex seem very much > self-gratification activities (regardless of whether they are survival or > not). And most importantly, (goddammit, I see these things so clearly now, > conceptually, but sometimes, like now, I have to struggle to put it into > language!)..a demonstration of group *exploitation (which is the twist to > group harmony). Yes, it is a difficult thing to express - and a difficult subject; complex, multi-dimensional. And we have only the linear stream of words to evoke a duplication. If it were easy it would have been done long before now. > > That happens to many of us. Children are extremely sensitive to the > > feelings of others, the family atmosphere, the social atmosphere. Then > > we teach them to block those feelings and perceptions, through very > > suppressive tactics. These include denial and invalidation. The results > > are catastrophic, and sometimes take years to overcome. > > Or lifetimes even! True. But it's probaly best to believe that you can get straight in what remains of this one! abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-970-1022463799-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 01:43:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4R1hMm03965 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 01:43:22 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-970-1022463799-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 01:43:19 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 01:43:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 16036 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 01:43:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 01:43:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 01:43:18 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.173]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA14390 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 20:43:15 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020526183942.10870b90@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:39:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 197 Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death posted to: ucplist@yahoogroups.com alt.ucp,ALT.UCP At 12:27 AM 5/27/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Oh, you guys are good! > >Just zipping along! I was just thinking to myself . . . this is the best kind of evidence that someone has being DOING! >_______________________________________ >On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 23:08:57 +0000 >> From: Ondine Green > >> >From: "Neal Pardoe" >> >> >Sure, most people are slaves to their emotions. They are NOT in control of >> >them, and I would state (perhaps tongue in cheek is not appropriate here), >> >that below death, emotions are seen as enemies. > >Because of fear. Slaves because of fear! >Not in control, because of fear of responsibility. >Have feelings as enemies because feelings betray the facade of the >false-self which is pretending to control. Sure! Fear AND everything below it to the level you are disucssing. And that fear is backed up by ANGER! And so on an so forth! It's NOT JUST ONE emotional tone that has you stuck, it's EVERTHING ABOVE the level that you can normally consciously create for your self. If you are on the ground floor of a building that has just pancaked down, the floor above you is just one of MANY PROBLEMS you have. >> That sounds very familiar. My partner will pretty much do *anything* to >> prevent herself from feeling anything negative - which pretty much impedes >> her ability to feel much *positive*. That's where she is! Does she SEE that? Can she LOOK AT it? Can she IMAGINE alternatives? >> >The poor person doesn't even >> >know who they are, they just *suffer these emotions in mysterious ways. >> >> Mystery? Hmmm, yes, sounds like the fact that she apparently can't remember >> most of her childhood might have some relevance here. >> >> >Too much emotion = don't look in that area! >> >> Or "pretend to look and then say there's nothing there". >Because afraid to confront the pain there? Again fear. Fear is way above the PRETENSE that they are experiencing, which is probably far above what they apparently have DISASSOCIATED from. You are talking about fear. Their reality is that they can't imagine what they could be afraid of . . . It simply does not exist for them . . . at this time. >> >I would now say that the band of Harmony definitely does come into play. I >> >may even have been seeing his pictures directly, I don't know. As you say >> >Ondine, about others emotions, you mistook them for your own. I have more >> >to >> >see. :) >> >> Well, as we've been saying, Harmony is about direct connection, creating a >> "We", so this is beginning to make a lot of sense. It also makes sense to me >> that you can't form a "We" by dissolving ("not-ising") the self, but only by >> finding and being solid in the real "Me". > >Well said. > > >> >Interesting point here. I just had a look at the Chart and see that eat and >> >sex are basically lower harmonics of Harmony. This seems to fit well. >> >> Of course. In the havingness scale, that translates as "Had" - that is, down >> there you feel an unfillable lack (i.e. having lost contact with your real >> self), which you try to fill with other people (Sex) or inanimate objects >> (Eat). > >Right on! >> ondine > >Picking up the thread of the Genesis narrative, God comes to check up on >things. Adam and Eve are hiding from him and have covered thamselves >with leaves. They are afraid - so afraid they construct this falsity to >hide behind. Eve blames the Snake, and Adam blames Eve. Neither takes >responsibility; neither says, for instance, I am as you made me, free, >independent and curious - thirsty for knowledge. Why then, knowing this, >for what reason did you forbid what I have in fact done? Surely you must >have known that I would do this. If indeed you are inclined to punish >me, know then that your wrath is only against yourself. > >I am inclined to see the lower tone levels all as held together by fear. >For instance SEX is fear of Energy, Enlightenment, Understanding, >Communication, etc. The direct connection, the embodiment. > >EAT is the fear of feeding others. The fear of lack, scarcity. >It's a non-communication, a non-communion in the same way SEX is a >non-communion. > >I am looking for the root event, maybe the root betrayal, that >precipitates this descent. It's the betrayal of SELF BY SELF that launches you into below death conditions. Looking for it SOMEWHERE ELSE can be an eternal process. >Genesis fascinates me. It is so deep. > > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org But according to genesis: God lied to man. The Snake told the truth. When adam and eve believed the serpent and did what he said, god was proven to be a liar, and the THE GODS discussed among themselves how they could keep adam and eve stupid and ignorant. The snake freed man from JUST ONE of the gods' lies. I believe their solution was divine government and public education. The ACTUAL SOLUTION to their final solution is DO UCP AND SEE! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-971-1022463909-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 01:45:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4R1jCm05908 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 01:45:12 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-971-1022463909-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 01:45:09 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 01:45:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 5823 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 01:45:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 01:45:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 01:45:09 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.173]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA14654 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 20:45:06 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020526184133.107fe938@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:41:33 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] WHAT HAPPENED TO PULLGEES? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 198 WHAT HAPPENED TO PULLGEES? I haven't heard from him in a while. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-972-1022473043-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 04:17:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4R4HQM25490 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 04:17:26 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-972-1022473043-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 04:17:23 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 04:17:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 1792 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 04:17:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 04:17:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 04:17:20 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4R4HHc16672; Mon, 27 May 2002 04:17:17 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020526183942.10870b90@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 04:17:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 199 On Sun, 26 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:39:42 -0700 > From: Net Prophet > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death > At 12:27 AM 5/27/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >Oh, you guys are good! > > > >Just zipping along! > > I was just thinking to myself . . . > this is the best kind of evidence > that someone has being DOING! > > >_______________________________________ > >On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > > > >> Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 23:08:57 +0000 > >> From: Ondine Green > > > >> >From: "Neal Pardoe" > >> > >> >Sure, most people are slaves to their emotions. They are NOT in control of > >> >them, and I would state (perhaps tongue in cheek is not appropriate here), > >> >that below death, emotions are seen as enemies. > > > >Because of fear. Slaves because of fear! > >Not in control, because of fear of responsibility. > >Have feelings as enemies because feelings betray the facade of the > >false-self which is pretending to control. > > Sure! > > Fear AND everything below it to the level you are disucssing. > > And that fear is backed up by ANGER! Perhaps anger may *manifest* as expression. But without pain it would not exist. Dog bites man. Man beats dog. Why? Man hurts. Next man comes. Dog bites harder. . .and so it goes. > And so on an so forth! > > It's NOT JUST ONE emotional tone that has you stuck, > it's EVERTHING ABOVE the level that you can > normally consciously create for your self. > > If you are on the ground floor of a building > that has just pancaked down, the floor above > you is just one of MANY PROBLEMS you have. I guess I don't see how the pancake building (which I understand) applies as allegory to tone scale. The upper level energy is pulling upward, not pushing you down. > >> That sounds very familiar. My partner will pretty much do *anything* to > >> prevent herself from feeling anything negative - which pretty much impedes > >> her ability to feel much *positive*. > > That's where she is! > Does she SEE that? > Can she LOOK AT it? > Can she IMAGINE alternatives? > > >> >The poor person doesn't even > >> >know who they are, they just *suffer these emotions in mysterious ways. > >> > >> Mystery? Hmmm, yes, sounds like the fact that she apparently can't remember > >> most of her childhood might have some relevance here. > >> > >> >Too much emotion = don't look in that area! > >> > >> Or "pretend to look and then say there's nothing there". > > >Because afraid to confront the pain there? Again fear. > > Fear is way above the PRETENSE that they are > experiencing, which is probably far above what > they apparently have DISASSOCIATED from. > > You are talking about fear. > Their reality is that they > can't imagine what they > could be afraid of . . . > It simply does not exist > for them . . . at this time. Hmmm. I would need a report from the front line on this. The low-tone people I know are afraid of EVERYTHING. Things that exist, things that do not exist (for me), things that are denied, or altered or just made up. What I recognize from you description is conversations where you ask a question, and you can just FEEL and GROK that they are dodging around something and "misinterpreting" and "avoiding" and I wonder if they know that they are doing that. Like dog shit on th carpet and you ask, How is you dog? And they start talking about they KIDS! > >> >I would now say that the band of Harmony definitely does come into > >> >play. I may even have been seeing his pictures directly, I don't > >> >know. As you say Ondine, about others emotions, you mistook them > >> >for your own. I have more to see. :) > >> > >> Well, as we've been saying, Harmony is about direct connection, > >> creating a "We", so this is beginning to make a lot of sense. It > >> also makes sense to me that you can't form a "We" by dissolving > >> ("not-ising") the self, but only by finding and being solid in the > >> real "Me". > > > >Well said. > > > > > > >> >Interesting point here. I just had a look at the Chart and see that eat > and > >> >sex are basically lower harmonics of Harmony. This seems to fit well. > >> > >> Of course. In the havingness scale, that translates as "Had" - that is, > down > >> there you feel an unfillable lack (i.e. having lost contact with your real > >> self), which you try to fill with other people (Sex) or inanimate objects > >> (Eat). > > > >Right on! > >> ondine > > > >Picking up the thread of the Genesis narrative, God comes to check up on > >things. Adam and Eve are hiding from him and have covered thamselves > >with leaves. They are afraid - so afraid they construct this falsity to > >hide behind. Eve blames the Snake, and Adam blames Eve. Neither takes > >responsibility; neither says, for instance, I am as you made me, free, > >independent and curious - thirsty for knowledge. Why then, knowing this, > >for what reason did you forbid what I have in fact done? Surely you must > >have known that I would do this. If indeed you are inclined to punish > >me, know then that your wrath is only against yourself. > > > >I am inclined to see the lower tone levels all as held together by fear. > >For instance SEX is fear of Energy, Enlightenment, Understanding, > >Communication, etc. The direct connection, the embodiment. > > > >EAT is the fear of feeding others. The fear of lack, scarcity. > >It's a non-communication, a non-communion in the same way SEX is a > >non-communion. > > > >I am looking for the root event, maybe the root betrayal, that > >precipitates this descent. > > It's the betrayal of SELF BY SELF that > launches you into below death conditions. Motive? > Looking for it SOMEWHERE ELSE > can be an eternal process. Yes. Motive? > >Genesis fascinates me. It is so deep. > > > > abner > > > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org > > But according to genesis: > > God lied to man. > > The Snake told the truth. > > When adam and eve believed the serpent > and did what he said, god was proven to > be a liar, and the THE GODS discussed > among themselves how they could keep > adam and eve stupid and ignorant. Like I say, Genesis is deep. Like all myth, inexhaustable. . . > The snake freed man from > JUST ONE of the gods' lies. Not necessarily a lie, perhaps a deeper truth. Opinions differ. What it looks like today, may not be what it looks like tomorrow. That's what fascinates. We can fix a view to illustrate a point. > I believe their solution was divine > government and public education. Fairly stupid gods you are invoking, Konchok. Be careful !! > The ACTUAL SOLUTION > to their final solution is > DO UCP AND SEE! > > Best Wishes, Thanks, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-973-1022484686-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 07:31:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.73]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4R7VSa27853 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 07:31:28 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-973-1022484686-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 07:31:26 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 07:31:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 96691 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 07:31:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 07:31:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 07:31:22 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.173]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA00392 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 02:31:20 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020527002745.107fe6e8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 00:27:45 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 200 At 07:18 AM 5/26/2002 -0000, you wrote: >--- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: >> On Sat, 25 May 2002, justintonation wrote: >> >> > Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP glossary help >> > > .....snips...... >> > >> > I have put the glossary on the my partial mirror >> > http://universalconsiouspractice.bravepages.com >> > >> > There was a bug where in Netscape where people could not >see >> > the text. I have put the code through Mac tidy and hopefully it >> > should be okay. >> >> I got PAGE NOT FOUND ON SERVER message just now. >> >> Yesterday, when I tried to access Konchoks's page from yours, >I got a >> "file type: octet-stream, Dowload or Cancel?" >> >> abner >> >> abner@s... > >Sorry guys. The url is the problem there notice how I did not type >a c after the s in conscious? The correct url [this time cutting and >pasting] is: > >http://universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ > >Does *this* one work for Netscape users? > >Justin The front page is working OK now, but the Can I get a Witness page has no text on it in netscape. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-974-1022486656-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 08:04:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4R84Ja17230 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 08:04:19 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-974-1022486656-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 08:04:17 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 08:04:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 51417 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 08:04:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 08:04:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 08:04:15 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.173]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA04461 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 03:04:11 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020527010037.10800d38@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020526183942.10870b90@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 01:00:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 201 At 04:17 AM 5/27/2002 +0000, you wrote: >On Sun, 26 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > >> Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 18:39:42 -0700 >> From: Net Prophet >> Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > >> Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death > >> At 12:27 AM 5/27/2002 +0000, you wrote: >> >Oh, you guys are good! >> > >> >Just zipping along! >> >> I was just thinking to myself . . . >> this is the best kind of evidence >> that someone has being DOING! >> >> >_______________________________________ >> >On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: >> > >> >> Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 23:08:57 +0000 >> >> From: Ondine Green >> > >> >> >From: "Neal Pardoe" >> >> >> >> >Sure, most people are slaves to their emotions. They are NOT in control of >> >> >them, and I would state (perhaps tongue in cheek is not appropriate here), >> >> >that below death, emotions are seen as enemies. >> > >> >Because of fear. Slaves because of fear! >> >Not in control, because of fear of responsibility. >> >Have feelings as enemies because feelings betray the facade of the >> >false-self which is pretending to control. >> >> Sure! >> >> Fear AND everything below it to the level you are disucssing. >> >> And that fear is backed up by ANGER! > >Perhaps anger may *manifest* as expression. But without pain it would >not exist. Dog bites man. Man beats dog. Why? Man hurts. Next man comes. >Dog bites harder. . .and so it goes. Well, Anger IS backed up by pain. And that by antagonism and boredom! No one tone is key, but the one you are stuck in now! >> And so on an so forth! >> >> It's NOT JUST ONE emotional tone that has you stuck, >> it's EVERTHING ABOVE the level that you can >> normally consciously create for your self. >> >> If you are on the ground floor of a building >> that has just pancaked down, the floor above >> you is just one of MANY PROBLEMS you have. >I guess I don't see how the pancake building (which I understand) >applies as allegory to tone scale. The upper level energy is pulling >upward, not pushing you down. Everything ABOVE the level your attention is on is CONTROLLING YOU without your awareness. It is cause, you are effect. If you are a fear, cou can cause grief. If you are in grief, you cannot cause fear. That stacks fear on top of your grief. Even though fear is higher. >> >> That sounds very familiar. My partner will pretty much do *anything* to >> >> prevent herself from feeling anything negative - which pretty much impedes >> >> her ability to feel much *positive*. >> >> That's where she is! >> Does she SEE that? >> Can she LOOK AT it? >> Can she IMAGINE alternatives? >> >> >> >The poor person doesn't even >> >> >know who they are, they just *suffer these emotions in mysterious ways. >> >> >> >> Mystery? Hmmm, yes, sounds like the fact that she apparently can't remember >> >> most of her childhood might have some relevance here. >> >> >> >> >Too much emotion = don't look in that area! >> >> >> >> Or "pretend to look and then say there's nothing there". >> >> >Because afraid to confront the pain there? Again fear. >> >> Fear is way above the PRETENSE that they are >> experiencing, which is probably far above what >> they apparently have DISASSOCIATED from. >> >> You are talking about fear. >> Their reality is that they >> can't imagine what they >> could be afraid of . . . >> It simply does not exist >> for them . . . at this time. > >Hmmm. I would need a report from the front line on this. The low-tone >people I know are afraid of EVERYTHING. Things that exist, things that >do not exist (for me), things that are denied, or altered or just made >up. Sure! Every hallucinatory cause like engrams or booty satans they can blame their problem on and say nothing to do with me! Everything EXCEPT what they are doing to cut their own throats! >What I recognize from you description is conversations where you ask a >question, and you can just FEEL and GROK that they are dodging around >something and "misinterpreting" and "avoiding" and I wonder if they know >that they are doing that. Like dog shit on th carpet and you ask, How is >you dog? And they start talking about they KIDS! Yes. I understand what you are perceiving. I'm trying to duplicate what the same conversation feels like to them. >> >> >I would now say that the band of Harmony definitely does come into >> >> >play. I may even have been seeing his pictures directly, I don't >> >> >know. As you say Ondine, about others emotions, you mistook them >> >> >for your own. I have more to see. :) >> >> >> >> Well, as we've been saying, Harmony is about direct connection, >> >> creating a "We", so this is beginning to make a lot of sense. It >> >> also makes sense to me that you can't form a "We" by dissolving >> >> ("not-ising") the self, but only by finding and being solid in the >> >> real "Me". >> > >> >Well said. >> > >> >> > >> >> >Interesting point here. I just had a look at the Chart and see that eat >> and >> >> >sex are basically lower harmonics of Harmony. This seems to fit well. >> >> >> >> Of course. In the havingness scale, that translates as "Had" - that is, >> down >> >> there you feel an unfillable lack (i.e. having lost contact with your real >> >> self), which you try to fill with other people (Sex) or inanimate objects >> >> (Eat). >> > >> >Right on! >> >> ondine >> > >> >Picking up the thread of the Genesis narrative, God comes to check up on >> >things. Adam and Eve are hiding from him and have covered thamselves >> >with leaves. They are afraid - so afraid they construct this falsity to >> >hide behind. Eve blames the Snake, and Adam blames Eve. Neither takes >> >responsibility; neither says, for instance, I am as you made me, free, >> >independent and curious - thirsty for knowledge. Why then, knowing this, >> >for what reason did you forbid what I have in fact done? Surely you must >> >have known that I would do this. If indeed you are inclined to punish >> >me, know then that your wrath is only against yourself. >> > >> >I am inclined to see the lower tone levels all as held together by fear. >> >For instance SEX is fear of Energy, Enlightenment, Understanding, >> >Communication, etc. The direct connection, the embodiment. >> > >> >EAT is the fear of feeding others. The fear of lack, scarcity. >> >It's a non-communication, a non-communion in the same way SEX is a >> >non-communion. >> > >> >I am looking for the root event, maybe the root betrayal, that >> >precipitates this descent. >> >> It's the betrayal of SELF BY SELF that >> launches you into below death conditions. > >Motive? DEATH = FAILURE! >> Looking for it SOMEWHERE ELSE >> can be an eternal process. > >Yes. > >Motive? DEATH = FAILURE! And below that the failure of the PRETENSE too! >> >Genesis fascinates me. It is so deep. >> > >> > abner >> > >> >abner@sdf.lonestar.org >> >> But according to genesis: >> >> God lied to man. >> >> The Snake told the truth. >> >> When adam and eve believed the serpent >> and did what he said, god was proven to >> be a liar, and the THE GODS discussed >> among themselves how they could keep >> adam and eve stupid and ignorant. > >Like I say, Genesis is deep. Like all myth, inexhaustable. . . I don't think that is myth. >> The snake freed man from >> JUST ONE of the gods' lies. >Not necessarily a lie, perhaps a deeper truth. >Opinions differ. >What it looks like today, may not be what it looks like tomorrow. >That's what fascinates. OK. That's what GOD SAYS in Genesis. Do you doubt the holy word of god? >We can fix a view to illustrate a point. Yes. And to learn. >> I believe their solution was divine >> government and public education. > >Fairly stupid gods you are invoking, Konchok. Be careful !! Stupid compared to WHO? Not the people they stupidify! Be careful of WHAT? >> The ACTUAL SOLUTION >> to their final solution is >> DO UCP AND SEE! >> >> Best Wishes, > >Thanks, > > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org You're welcome! KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-975-1022487086-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 08:11:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4R8BSg21368 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 08:11:28 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-975-1022487086-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 08:11:26 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 08:11:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 67873 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 08:11:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 08:11:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 08:11:25 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.173]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA05281 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 03:11:20 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020527010741.1084ce60@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 01:07:41 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] The Greatest Gig. Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 202 >>ORIGINAL POST INFO<< DATE: Sat, 25 May 2002 20:47:23 +0100 MESSAGE ID: <1022356127.20861.0@dyke.uk.clara.net> NEWSGROUP: ALT.UCP THREAD: The Greatest Gig. POSTER: "Neal Pardoe" Posted to: emailist: newsgroups: alt.ucp,ALT.UCP,alt.clearing.technology Neal Pardoe: >I've been thinking about the tone scale recently and in particular the fact >that I don't like the portrayal of it as an hierarchical scale, good above >death, bad below death. I don't see it that way either. But I see it as better higher. >The main reason is that I don't see it that way myself, I see it more like a >spectrum of colours. And that every expression of every tone on the entire >tone scale is just an expression of existence, God's *Painting of Life*. And >all those different colours expressed concurrently would be WHITE LIGHT! OK. How about ADDING CRAYONS to your toy box? Every tone below your normal tone level is a tone YOU CAN PERCEIVE AND YOU CAN ALSO USE. Just because you know the tune doesn't mean you have to sing it all day long. >Then I got to thinking of the tone scale more as a frequency spectrum, and >every note that could be sung is on that scale, the expression of existence. >God's *Song of Life* And all those different notes sung concurrently would >be WHITE NOISE! But you don't have to sing the chorus of horror! >There's a great gig going on around here with the best music and the best >light show. > >The best show in town! :) Yes! I agree! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-976-1022519073-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 17:04:38 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4RH4bb06046 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 17:04:37 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-976-1022519073-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 17:04:33 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 17:04:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 80870 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 17:04:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 17:04:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 17:04:32 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4RH4Sd09014; Mon, 27 May 2002 17:04:28 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020527010037.10800d38@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 17:04:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 203 On Mon, 27 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 01:00:37 -0700 > From: Net Prophet > At 04:17 AM 5/27/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >On Sun, 26 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > > __________________________________ > >> >On Sun, 26 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > >> > > >> >> Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 23:08:57 +0000 > >> >> From: Ondine Green > >> > > >> >> >From: "Neal Pardoe" > >> >> > >> >> >Sure, most people are slaves to their emotions. They are NOT in > control of > >> >> >them, and I would state (perhaps tongue in cheek is not appropriate > here), > >> >> >that below death, emotions are seen as enemies. > >> > > >> >Because of fear. Slaves because of fear! > >> >Not in control, because of fear of responsibility. > >> >Have feelings as enemies because feelings betray the facade of the > >> >false-self which is pretending to control. > >> > >> Sure! > >> > >> Fear AND everything below it to the level you are disucssing. > >> > >> And that fear is backed up by ANGER! > > > >Perhaps anger may *manifest* as expression. But without pain it would > >not exist. Dog bites man. Man beats dog. Why? Man hurts. Next man comes. > >Dog bites harder. . .and so it goes. > > Well, Anger IS backed up by pain. > And that by antagonism and boredom! > > No one tone is key, but the > one you are stuck in now! > > >> And so on an so forth! > >> > >> It's NOT JUST ONE emotional tone that has you stuck, > >> it's EVERTHING ABOVE the level that you can > >> normally consciously create for your self. > >> > >> If you are on the ground floor of a building > >> that has just pancaked down, the floor above > >> you is just one of MANY PROBLEMS you have. > > >I guess I don't see how the pancake building (which I understand) > >applies as allegory to tone scale. The upper level energy is pulling > >upward, not pushing you down. > > Everything ABOVE the level your attention is on > is CONTROLLING YOU without your awareness. > > It is cause, you are effect. > > If you are a fear, cou can cause grief. > > If you are in grief, you cannot cause fear. > > That stacks fear on top of your grief. > > Even though fear is higher. OK. Got it. The higher tones can produce lower tone effects, for instance Enthusiasm can produce Hostility, Fear, Grief, etc. in lower tone people. What I was thinking is that Enthusiasm cannot(reliably) produce Enthusiasm in lower tone people. That's what I was thinking "control" would be. If higher tones could "control" in the sense I was thinking, then things would be much easier for saints and prophets. All they would have to do is open they mouf and everybody would catch on. As it is they are called frauds, charlatans, con men, lunatics, hate-mongers, etc. according to the tone level from which they are perceived. > >> >> That sounds very familiar. My partner will pretty much do *anything* to > >> >> prevent herself from feeling anything negative - which pretty much > impedes > >> >> her ability to feel much *positive*. > >> > >> That's where she is! > >> Does she SEE that? > >> Can she LOOK AT it? > >> Can she IMAGINE alternatives? > >> > >> >> >The poor person doesn't even > >> >> >know who they are, they just *suffer these emotions in mysterious ways. > >> >> > >> >> Mystery? Hmmm, yes, sounds like the fact that she apparently can't > remember > >> >> most of her childhood might have some relevance here. > >> >> > >> >> >Too much emotion = don't look in that area! > >> >> > >> >> Or "pretend to look and then say there's nothing there". > >> > >> >Because afraid to confront the pain there? Again fear. > >> > >> Fear is way above the PRETENSE that they are > >> experiencing, which is probably far above what > >> they apparently have DISASSOCIATED from. > >> > >> You are talking about fear. > >> Their reality is that they > >> can't imagine what they > >> could be afraid of . . . > >> It simply does not exist > >> for them . . . at this time. > > > >Hmmm. I would need a report from the front line on this. The low-tone > >people I know are afraid of EVERYTHING. Things that exist, things that > >do not exist (for me), things that are denied, or altered or just made > >up. > > Sure! Every hallucinatory cause like engrams or booty satans > they can blame their problem on and say nothing to do with me! > Everything EXCEPT what they are doing to cut their own throats! > > >What I recognize from you description is conversations where you ask a > >question, and you can just FEEL and GROK that they are dodging around > >something and "misinterpreting" and "avoiding" and I wonder if they know > >that they are doing that. Like dog shit on th carpet and you ask, How is > >you dog? And they start talking about they KIDS! > > Yes. > > I understand what you are perceiving. > I'm trying to duplicate what the same > conversation feels like to them. OK. Understood. Cool! > >> >> >I would now say that the band of Harmony definitely does come into > >> >> >play. I may even have been seeing his pictures directly, I don't > >> >> >know. As you say Ondine, about others emotions, you mistook them > >> >> >for your own. I have more to see. :) > >> >> > >> >> Well, as we've been saying, Harmony is about direct connection, > >> >> creating a "We", so this is beginning to make a lot of sense. It > >> >> also makes sense to me that you can't form a "We" by dissolving > >> >> ("not-ising") the self, but only by finding and being solid in the > >> >> real "Me". > >> > > > >> >Well said. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> >> >Interesting point here. I just had a look at the Chart and see that eat > >> and > >> >> >sex are basically lower harmonics of Harmony. This seems to fit well. > >> >> > >> >> Of course. In the havingness scale, that translates as "Had" - that is, > >> down > >> >> there you feel an unfillable lack (i.e. having lost contact with your > real > >> >> self), which you try to fill with other people (Sex) or inanimate > objects > >> >> (Eat). > >> > > >> >Right on! > >> >> ondine > >> > > >> >Picking up the thread of the Genesis narrative, God comes to check up on > >> >things. Adam and Eve are hiding from him and have covered thamselves > >> >with leaves. They are afraid - so afraid they construct this falsity to > >> >hide behind. Eve blames the Snake, and Adam blames Eve. Neither takes > >> >responsibility; neither says, for instance, I am as you made me, free, > >> >independent and curious - thirsty for knowledge. Why then, knowing this, > >> >for what reason did you forbid what I have in fact done? Surely you must > >> >have known that I would do this. If indeed you are inclined to punish > >> >me, know then that your wrath is only against yourself. > >> > > >> >I am inclined to see the lower tone levels all as held together by fear. > >> >For instance SEX is fear of Energy, Enlightenment, Understanding, > >> >Communication, etc. The direct connection, the embodiment. > >> > > >> >EAT is the fear of feeding others. The fear of lack, scarcity. > >> >It's a non-communication, a non-communion in the same way SEX is a > >> >non-communion. > >> > > >> >I am looking for the root event, maybe the root betrayal, that > >> >precipitates this descent. > >> > >> It's the betrayal of SELF BY SELF that > >> launches you into below death conditions. > > > >Motive? > > DEATH = FAILURE! Maybe. It sure LOOKS LIKE THAT. But what is the computation? Is it like those suicide notes that say, Now you'll be sorry you made me fail? You didn't love me when I was alive, so I guess you won't miss me when I'm gone, and I won't have to listen to you any more? > >> Looking for it SOMEWHERE ELSE > >> can be an eternal process. > > > >Yes. > > > >Motive? > > DEATH = FAILURE! > > And below that the failure of the PRETENSE too! ;) Good point! > >> >Genesis fascinates me. It is so deep. > >> > > >> > abner > >> > > >> >abner@sdf.lonestar.org > >> > >> But according to genesis: > >> > >> God lied to man. > >> > >> The Snake told the truth. > >> > >> When adam and eve believed the serpent > >> and did what he said, god was proven to > >> be a liar, and the THE GODS discussed > >> among themselves how they could keep > >> adam and eve stupid and ignorant. > > > >Like I say, Genesis is deep. Like all myth, inexhaustable. . . > > I don't think that is myth. That's what I mean, inexhaustable. Magic Mirror. > >> The snake freed man from > >> JUST ONE of the gods' lies. > > >Not necessarily a lie, perhaps a deeper truth. > >Opinions differ. > >What it looks like today, may not be what it looks like tomorrow. > >That's what fascinates. > > OK. That's what GOD SAYS in Genesis. How do you know you duplicate the meaning; the intention? > Do you doubt the holy word of god? I reserve that right. Besides, there are many vias here. Each marks the possibility of redaction (alter-is). > >We can fix a view to illustrate a point. > > Yes. And to learn. > > >> I believe their solution was divine > >> government and public education. > > > >Fairly stupid gods you are invoking, Konchok. Be careful !! > > Stupid compared to WHO? The intelligent ones! > Not the people they stupidify! Picking up the discussion (above) the "people" cannot duplicate the message. It will be distorted according to their own tone. This is sad. But strictly speaking , the people are responsible for they OWN stupidity. Blame the gods and stay stuck forever. > Be careful of WHAT? Of this. > >> The ACTUAL SOLUTION > >> to their final solution is > >> DO UCP AND SEE! Cool! Thanks, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-977-1022527637-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 19:27:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4RJRJo17593 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 19:27:19 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-977-1022527637-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 19:27:17 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 19:27:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 30236 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 19:27:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 19:27:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 19:27:15 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.175]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA07062 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 14:27:12 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020527122326.00e83df8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 12:23:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 204 Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Abner: >OK. Got it. The higher tones can produce lower tone effects, for >instance Enthusiasm can produce Hostility, Fear, Grief, etc. in lower >tone people. > >What I was thinking is that Enthusiasm cannot(reliably) produce >Enthusiasm in lower tone people. That's what I was thinking "control" >would be. Yes. If you hit them with enthusiasm, like a multi-level-revival meeting, they MIGHT hypnotically entrain and dramatize something that looks like enthusiasm, but it's probably an enthusiastic hallucination. And what most people hit them with is actually PRETENSE enthusiasm anyway. An "enthusiastic" lie is still a PRETENSE! >If higher tones could "control" in the sense I was thinking, then things >would be much easier for saints and prophets. All they would have to do >is open they mouf and everybody would catch on. Yes. Sometimes you CAN give them a flash/glimpse/insight, and although it is almost certainly NOT STABLE, it CAN give them a point of reference to COMPARE their normal existence to. This is a beneficial function of art, music, psychedelics, etc. >As it is they are called frauds, charlatans, con men, lunatics, >hate-mongers, etc. according to the tone level from which they are >perceived. Yes. ........snips......... >> >> > >> >> >Picking up the thread of the Genesis narrative, God comes to check up on >> >> >things. Adam and Eve are hiding from him and have covered thamselves >> >> >with leaves. They are afraid - so afraid they construct this falsity to >> >> >hide behind. Eve blames the Snake, and Adam blames Eve. Neither takes >> >> >responsibility; neither says, for instance, I am as you made me, free, >> >> >independent and curious - thirsty for knowledge. Why then, knowing this, >> >> >for what reason did you forbid what I have in fact done? Surely you must >> >> >have known that I would do this. If indeed you are inclined to punish >> >> >me, know then that your wrath is only against yourself. >> >> > >> >> >I am inclined to see the lower tone levels all as held together by fear. >> >> >For instance SEX is fear of Energy, Enlightenment, Understanding, >> >> >Communication, etc. The direct connection, the embodiment. >> >> > >> >> >EAT is the fear of feeding others. The fear of lack, scarcity. >> >> >It's a non-communication, a non-communion in the same way SEX is a >> >> >non-communion. >> >> > >> >> >I am looking for the root event, maybe the root betrayal, that >> >> >precipitates this descent. >> >> >> >> It's the betrayal of SELF BY SELF that >> >> launches you into below death conditions. >> > >> >Motive? >> >> DEATH = FAILURE! >Maybe. It sure LOOKS LIKE THAT. But what is the computation? Is it like >those suicide notes that say, Now you'll be sorry you made me fail? > >You didn't love me when I was alive, so I guess you won't miss me when >I'm gone, and I won't have to listen to you any more? The computations and actions are infinitely complex, but they will display at some level on the chart. I find that no one knows exactly what it WAS until it's gone. Then the person who created and uncreated KNOWS. >> >> Looking for it SOMEWHERE ELSE >> >> can be an eternal process. >> > >> >Yes. >> > >> >Motive? >> >> DEATH = FAILURE! >> >> And below that the failure of the PRETENSE too! > >;) Good point! > >> >> >Genesis fascinates me. It is so deep. >> >> > >> >> > abner >> >> > >> >> >abner@sdf.lonestar.org >> >> >> >> But according to genesis: >> >> >> >> God lied to man. >> >> >> >> The Snake told the truth. >> >> >> >> When adam and eve believed the serpent >> >> and did what he said, god was proven to >> >> be a liar, and the THE GODS discussed >> >> among themselves how they could keep >> >> adam and eve stupid and ignorant. >> > >> >Like I say, Genesis is deep. Like all myth, inexhaustable. . . >> >> I don't think that is myth. > >That's what I mean, inexhaustable. Magic Mirror. Read the Sitchin section at my web site. http://net-prophet.net/nobul/sitchin/sitchin.htm He provides THE astonishing viewpoint to compare to. Some of it IS made up, but he might well STILL be 90% right! >> >> The snake freed man from >> >> JUST ONE of the gods' lies. >> >> >Not necessarily a lie, perhaps a deeper truth. Adam and Eve did NOT DIE when they ate the apple, as god had solemnly promised! >> >Opinions differ. >> >What it looks like today, may not be what it looks like tomorrow. >> >That's what fascinates. >> >> OK. That's what GOD SAYS in Genesis. >How do you know you duplicate the meaning; the intention? It's astonishingly CLEAR in Genesis! After bemoaning the fact that Adam and Eve have learned about good and evil, the gods wonder how they can prevent Adam and Eve from learning about life, which will make them like the gods themselves. THAT'S *CLEAR!* >> Do you doubt the holy word of god? >I reserve that right. Besides, there are many vias here. Yes. I'm joking about it. >Each marks the possibility of redaction (alter-is). Yes. Sitchin gives you a history of the earlier sumerian books and REWRITES by the god Marduk which eventually becames Genesis. >> >We can fix a view to illustrate a point. >> >> Yes. And to learn. >> >> >> I believe their solution was divine >> >> government and public education. >> > >> >Fairly stupid gods you are invoking, Konchok. Be careful !! >> >> Stupid compared to WHO? > >The intelligent ones! Intelligence does NOT necessarily imply sanity! WHERE are the smart gods? >> Not the people they stupidify! >Picking up the discussion (above) the "people" cannot duplicate the >message. It will be distorted according to their own tone. This is sad. >But strictly speaking , the people are responsible for they OWN >stupidity. Blame the gods and stay stuck forever. In this case, the "gods" are the local military overlords, fighting among themselves for political and economic hegemony of earth, and creating populations of hypnotized ignorant tributaries via TV. >> Be careful of WHAT? >Of this. But I LIKE this! >> >> The ACTUAL SOLUTION >> >> to their final solution is >> >> DO UCP AND SEE! > >Cool! > >Thanks, > > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-979-1022541672-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 27 23:21:15 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4RNLEY13032 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 23:21:14 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-979-1022541672-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 May 2002 23:21:13 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 27 May 2002 23:21:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 16521 invoked from network); 27 May 2002 23:21:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 May 2002 23:21:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.203) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 May 2002 23:21:12 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 27 May 2002 16:21:11 -0700 Received: from 203.79.68.190 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 May 2002 23:21:11 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 May 2002 23:21:11.0929 (UTC) FILETIME=[307A4E90:01C205D5] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [203.79.68.190] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 23:21:11 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 206 >From: Abba Noor > > Too much emotion = don't look in that area! > >Sometinmes it can get in a ball. Too many undigested incidents; too much >emotion, pain. Person knows it is there - but can't pick just one >incident to talk about. I tried my first ever UCP session with Melanie, my partner, last night, and it ran aground on this very issue. She was obviously upset, and when I pulled out the magic question - "have you ever felt like this before?" -the answer was "frequently", but she felt incapable of picking any particular time to look at. >Uncork the bottle and ALL the contents want to >come out. So Can't say anything. That's why a Witness is needed.Someone >who gives confidence that, however long it takes he will stay on board. The way Melanie puts it, she's been repressing everything for so long that it's become an automatic process which she can't stop - not even if I'm there to hold her hand. That sounds like a -10 (fixidity) reaction to me. ondine _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-980-1022545713-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 28 00:28:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4S0Sa214800 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 00:28:36 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-980-1022545713-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2002 00:28:34 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 28 May 2002 00:28:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 43169 invoked from network); 28 May 2002 00:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2002 00:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2002 00:28:32 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4S0SSD01980; Tue, 28 May 2002 00:28:28 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 00:28:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 207 On Mon, 27 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > >From: Abba Noor > > > > Too much emotion = don't look in that area! > > > >Sometinmes it can get in a ball. Too many undigested incidents; too much > >emotion, pain. Person knows it is there - but can't pick just one > >incident to talk about. > > I tried my first ever UCP session with Melanie, my partner, last night, and > it ran aground on this very issue. She was obviously upset, That's where she is now. >and when I > pulled out the magic question - "have you ever felt like this before?" -the > answer was "frequently", That's where she was before. but she felt incapable of picking any particular > time to look at. That's where she is now, again. Compare with where she was before. Where might you be? > >Uncork the bottle and ALL the contents want to > >come out. So Can't say anything. That's why a Witness is needed.Someone > >who gives confidence that, however long it takes he will stay on board. > > The way Melanie puts it, she's been repressing everything for so long that > it's become an automatic process which she can't stop - OK. That's where you are now. Wher might you be? >not even if I'm > there to hold her hand. That sounds like a -10 (fixidity) reaction to me. The witness will break this "fixidity". At least you got her talking! She told you a "feeling" although indirectly. (Or your report is indirect. You don't report the actual dialog) You might rephrase a 'quasi-feeling' evaluation, to be sure you got it. For instance, "It's always this way" or "It will always be this way" into a concrete feeling, such as, Oh, it sound like you are feeling . . . helpless --in despair (or whatever you guess it might be) And then check that out. You want to be clean. You don't want to lay feelings on the seeker. You just want to understand what's going on. "incapable" is close enough. That sounds real to me. "Helpless" would lack the residue of judgment. If you can clarify without distorting, it might be helpful to the seeker. Just to get the seeker going, get unstuck. Sounds like you had a win with Melanie - a small win, but a win nonetheless. YOU GOT HER INTO SESSION! That's a WIN! You got her talking to you. That's a WIN! You just chip away at what is there. If you/she persist, eventually you will uncover the real Melanie. > ondine abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-981-1022555382-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 28 03:09:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4S39j307307 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 03:09:45 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-981-1022555382-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2002 03:09:43 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 28 May 2002 03:09:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 26360 invoked from network); 28 May 2002 03:09:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2002 03:09:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2002 03:09:42 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.163]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA21722 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 22:09:39 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020527200607.1084a938@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 20:06:07 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: LORDY, LORDY! HAMSTERSQUAT RMGROUPING HOMER TOO! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 208 >>ORIGINAL POST INFO<< DATE: 27 May 2002 18:46:53 -0400 MESSAGE ID: <200205272245.SAA09162@adore.lightlink.com> NEWSGROUP: alt.clearing.technology THREAD: Re: LORDY, LORDY! HAMSTERSQUAT RMGROUPING HOMER TOO! POSTER: Homer Wilson Smith KONCHOK PENDAY (KP@net-prophet.net) wrote: >>LORDY, LORDY! HAMSTERSQUAT RMGROUPING HOMER TOO! > > >>After several days of failure to rmgroup alt.ucp, >>christinA eijkhout is back at it again, with some >>*NEW* TARGETS TOO! Here's a sample . . . .......snip rmgroup of Homer's alt.clearing.X new domains......... Homer: > The only ISP's that a rmgroup will affect are ISP's that *LISTEN* >to rmgroups in the first place. No ISP in their right mind will >listen to rmgroups in the alt area, as there have been too many >attempts to destroy them all. Way Cool! Thanks for the data! > Propagation is mostly affected by ISP's who also turned off >newgroups, so each end customer will have to ask to have the groups >carried if they want them. > > Homer Wonderful! Then we have NO problem! THOSE WHO ASK SHALL RECEIVE! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-982-1022578011-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 28 09:26:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4S9QrT17289 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 09:26:53 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-982-1022578011-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2002 09:26:51 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 28 May 2002 09:26:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 57095 invoked from network); 28 May 2002 09:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2002 09:26:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2002 09:26:50 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.209]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA08235 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 04:26:48 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020528022316.00e9aa78@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 02:23:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 209 At 11:21 PM 5/27/2002 +0000, Ondine wrote: Ondine?: >> > Too much emotion = don't look in that area! Abba Noor >>Sometinmes it can get in a ball. Too many undigested incidents; too much >>emotion, pain. Person knows it is there - but can't pick just one >>incident to talk about. Ondine: >I tried my first ever UCP session with Melanie, my partner, last night, Way Cool! >and it ran aground on this very issue. OK. Incomplete session. Not to worry. >She was obviously upset, and when I >pulled out the magic question - "have you ever felt like this before?" -the >answer was "frequently", OK! You ARE making progress. That's at least the beginning of a CONNECTION. >but she felt incapable of picking any particular >time to look at. OK! Ever felt like that before? >>Uncork the bottle and ALL the contents want to >>come out. So Can't say anything. That's why a Witness is needed.Someone >>who gives confidence that, however long it takes he will stay on board. That can be a BIG help! >The way Melanie puts it, she's been repressing everything for so long that >it's become an automatic process which she can't stop - not even if I'm >there to hold her hand. That sounds like a -10 (fixidity) reaction to me. > >ondine OK! That's where she is. Don't fight with it. Just LOOK at it. Where might she be? Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-983-1022578363-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 28 09:32:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4S9WjT20970 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 09:32:45 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-983-1022578363-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2002 09:32:43 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 28 May 2002 09:32:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 13149 invoked from network); 28 May 2002 09:32:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2002 09:32:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2002 09:32:42 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.209]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA08862 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 04:32:39 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020528022908.10890c60@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 02:29:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 210 At 12:28 AM 5/28/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: >On Mon, 27 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: Ondine: >> > > Too much emotion = don't look in that area! Abner?: >> >Sometinmes it can get in a ball. Too many undigested incidents; too much >> >emotion, pain. Person knows it is there - but can't pick just one >> >incident to talk about. Ondine: >> I tried my first ever UCP session with Melanie, my partner, last night, and >> it ran aground on this very issue. She was obviously upset, Abner: >That's where she is now. Yes! >>and when I >> pulled out the magic question - "have you ever felt like this before?" -the >> answer was "frequently", >That's where she was before. Yes! >but she felt incapable of picking any particular >> time to look at. >That's where she is now, again. Compare with where she was before. > >Where might you be? Yes! >> >Uncork the bottle and ALL the contents want to >> >come out. So Can't say anything. That's why a Witness is needed.Someone >> >who gives confidence that, however long it takes he will stay on board. >> >> The way Melanie puts it, she's been repressing everything for so long that >> it's become an automatic process which she can't stop - > >OK. That's where you are now. > >Wher might you be? Yes! >>not even if I'm >> there to hold her hand. That sounds like a -10 (fixidity) reaction to me. >The witness will break this "fixidity". At least you got her talking! >She told you a "feeling" although indirectly. (Or your report is >indirect. You don't report the actual dialog) Yes! >You might rephrase a 'quasi-feeling' evaluation, to be sure you got it. >For instance, "It's always this way" or "It will always be this way" >into a concrete feeling, such as, Oh, it sound like you are feeling . . >. helpless --in despair (or whatever you guess it might be) And then >check that out. You want to be clean. You don't want to lay feelings on >the seeker. You just want to understand what's going on. Yes. As long as you are reporting HOW IT *SEEMS* TO YOU, that seems to work pretty well. It falls apart badly if you tell them how it is. >"incapable" is close enough. That sounds real to me. "Helpless" would lack >the residue of judgment. If you can clarify without distorting, it might >be helpful to the seeker. Just to get the seeker going, get unstuck. Or at least to tell them how their comm seems to you, so they can get some idea if they are connecting to you. >Sounds like you had a win with Melanie - a small win, but a win >nonetheless. YOU GOT HER INTO SESSION! That's a WIN! Yes! >You got her talking to you. That's a WIN! Yes! >You just chip away at what is there. If you/she persist, eventually you >will uncover the real Melanie. Yes! >> ondine > > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org It sounds to me like Abner has an excellent basic grasp of UCP! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-984-1022609984-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 28 18:19:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4SIJkU08561 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 18:19:46 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-984-1022609984-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2002 18:19:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 38986 invoked by uid 7800); 28 May 2002 18:19:43 -0000 Message-ID: <1022609983.212682302.87150.m12@yahoogroups.com> X-eGroups-Application: files From: ucplist@yahoogroups.com To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: 28 May 2002 18:19:43 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] File - UCP List Charter Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 212 ******* UCP LIST CHARTER ******* version 1.1 amended 13 March 2002 I. INTRODUCTION UCP List is dedicated to discussion of Universal Clearing Process (UCP) which is free on the Internet http://www.net-prophet.net/ucp/ Although UCP is primarily discussed on ACT (Usenet newsgroup alt.clearing.technology), where UCP author Konchok Penday is also posting, UCP List could be an alternative for those who enjoy moderate traffic (20-30 posts a day projected) as opposed to ACT's 100 posts daily average. But UCP List is not intended to be the replacement for discussing UCP on ACT. For everybody's benefit, I'll be regularly reposting here all important UCP messages from ACT. UCP-List will not be feeding into ACT or vice-versa. UCP-List is unmoderated, so freedom of expression is incouraged. II. UCP LIST GOALS 1. UCP discussion. 2. UCP dissemination. 3. Posting UCP successes. 4. Posting UCP news. 5. Finding partners for co-witnessing UCP. . . . . . . . (you can add your goals) III. UCP LIST RULES 1. Post freely your opinions. 2. Try not to spam. 3. On topic advertisement is permitted, but be specific in your ads. 4. Don't attach files to your emails. They will not get through. 5. If you are recieving daily digest into your mail box and replying to one of the messages, please copy the message's subject into your reply's subject line (the default is "Re: Digest Number ..."). 6. If you want to unsubscribe from UCP List, just send a blank e-mail to ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ============================================ Everybody is encouraged to discuss this Charter in order to improve it. Best wishes to all, Alex Buksdorf, UCP List owner-moderator. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-985-1022612148-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 28 18:55:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4SItoU22281 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 18:55:50 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-985-1022612148-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2002 18:55:48 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 28 May 2002 18:55:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 90018 invoked from network); 28 May 2002 18:55:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2002 18:55:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2002 18:55:45 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4SIteQ24957; Tue, 28 May 2002 18:55:40 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020528022908.10890c60@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 18:55:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [UCP-List] Getting Started: was Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 214 On Tue, 28 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 02:29:08 -0700 > At 12:28 AM 5/28/2002 +0000, Abner wrote: > >On Mon, 27 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > > >> >Uncork the bottle and ALL the contents want to > >> >come out. So Can't say anything. That's why a Witness is needed.Someone > >> >who gives confidence that, however long it takes he will stay on board. > >> Ondine: > >> The way Melanie puts it, she's been repressing everything for so long that > >> it's become an automatic process which she can't stop - > > Abner: > >OK. That's where you are now. > > > >Wher might you be? > KP: > Yes! > > >>not even if I'm > >> there to hold her hand. That sounds like a -10 (fixidity) reaction to me. > > >The witness will break this "fixidity". At least you got her talking! > >She told you a "feeling" although indirectly. (Or your report is > >indirect. You don't report the actual dialog) > > Yes! > > >You might rephrase a 'quasi-feeling' evaluation, to be sure you got it. > >For instance, "It's always this way" or "It will always be this way" > >into a concrete feeling, such as, Oh, it sound like you are feeling . . > >. helpless --in despair (or whatever you guess it might be) And then > >check that out. You want to be clean. You don't want to lay feelings on > >the seeker. You just want to understand what's going on. > > Yes. As long as you are reporting > HOW IT *SEEMS* TO YOU, that > seems to work pretty well. It falls > apart badly if you tell them how it is. Yes. Thanks for reinforcing this point. You can say, "It seems to me you are saying...Is that it?" or "I'm hearing...Is that close?" The reason to go for FEELINGS, and the need for a bit of 2-way comm at this beginning stage, is to get something real to work with. You can't work with the significances attached to the feelings at this point. All those significances are what has got the seeker overwhelmed. Feelings are Universal, so easier to connect with. What the seeker thinks she wants might be sympathy. That way she would be able to validate her insanity, confirm her victimhood, and not change anything. What I get is here we have a Queen of Empathy paired up with a Black Hole of Misery. My suggestions are based on that. Life is not long enough to give this seeker enough empathy to bring her up to present time. And the winess, as a practical matter, can't just sit back passively and take all the rationalizations and justifications. One has to guide without guiding. . . The transformation of this Ball of Misery has two main fronts: first to discriminate the seeker from the Ball of Misery; second to sort the Ball of Misery into order: time, most importantly, then feelings, significances; postulates, failures, etc. - whatever comes up. Plenty will come up once it gets going. :) > >"incapable" is close enough. That sounds real to me. "Helpless" would lack > >the residue of judgment. If you can clarify without distorting, it might > >be helpful to the seeker. Just to get the seeker going, get unstuck. > > Or at least to tell them how their comm seems to you, > so they can get some idea if they are connecting to you. Yes. Exactly. > >Sounds like you had a win with Melanie - a small win, but a win > >nonetheless. YOU GOT HER INTO SESSION! That's a WIN! Thanks, both- abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-987-1022622316-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 28 21:45:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4SLjHU18276 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 21:45:17 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-987-1022622316-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2002 21:45:16 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 28 May 2002 21:45:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 31217 invoked from network); 28 May 2002 21:45:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2002 21:45:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2002 21:45:15 -0000 Received: from du-031-0213.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.213] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ComI-000FJd-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 28 May 2002 22:45:14 +0100 Message-ID: <009201c20690$e9a299c0$d58e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:20:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 217 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ondine Green" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death > > > > >From: Abba Noor > > > > Too much emotion = don't look in that area! > > > >Sometinmes it can get in a ball. Too many undigested incidents; too much > >emotion, pain. Person knows it is there - but can't pick just one > >incident to talk about. > > I tried my first ever UCP session with Melanie, my partner, last night, and > it ran aground on this very issue. She was obviously upset, and when I > pulled out the magic question - "have you ever felt like this before?" -the > answer was "frequently", but she felt incapable of picking any particular > time to look at. I suggest you get her to explain what *she means by 'frequently'. Obviously there is something hot there, you got a classic 'avoid answering the question' (which we all do/have done). and interestingly, keeps things just as they are! > > >Uncork the bottle and ALL the contents want to > >come out. So Can't say anything. That's why a Witness is needed.Someone > >who gives confidence that, however long it takes he will stay on board. > > The way Melanie puts it, she's been repressing everything for so long that > it's become an automatic process which she can't stop - not even if I'm > there to hold her hand. That sounds like a -10 (fixidity) reaction to me. Sounds like an excellent spot (of tone) to me. She can't stop it so it will stay the same! 'Frequently' in this context seems to mean all the time, and usually includes lots of infinites like *always and *never ...... Get her talking about frequently. If she *knows it's 'frequently' then she also knows of specifics, otherwise it is just a *I'm not looking and I'm just gonna give you an answer to shut you up*, which also serves to keep things the same. Well done Ondine, you certainly got her IN SESSION. That is a done deal. You have something to build on now! > > ondine > Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-986-1022622316-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 28 21:45:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4SLjIU18287 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 21:45:18 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-986-1022622316-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2002 21:45:16 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 28 May 2002 21:45:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 3917 invoked from network); 28 May 2002 21:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2002 21:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2002 21:45:14 -0000 Received: from du-031-0213.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.213] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ComG-000FJd-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 28 May 2002 22:45:13 +0100 Message-ID: <009101c20690$e8c9ed00$d58e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020528022908.10890c60@net-prophet.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:06:45 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 218 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Net Prophet" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:29 AM Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death -----------snipped-------------- Abner discussing response to Seeker having problems recalling a *specific incidence of something; > > You don't want to lay feelings on > > the seeker. You just want to understand what's going on. > KP; > Yes. As long as you are reporting > HOW IT *SEEMS* TO YOU, that > seems to work pretty well. It falls > apart badly if you tell them how it is. > Excellent point.I noticed the following; In whatever manner the Seeker has chosen to communicate the problem, the Witness is just informing the Seeker what the Witness has UNDERSTOOD them to be saying. Giving the Seeker the Witness's viewpoint provides the Seeker with something to COMPARE TO! The Seeker can then do the compare and correct/refine the view the Seeker gave them. No eval/inval, just respect for the Seekers viewpoint! Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-988-1022622317-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 28 21:45:19 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4SLjIU18296 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 21:45:18 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-988-1022622317-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2002 21:45:17 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 28 May 2002 21:45:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 723 invoked from network); 28 May 2002 21:45:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2002 21:45:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO oracle.clara.net) (195.8.69.94) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2002 21:45:16 -0000 Received: from du-031-0213.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.213] helo=oemcomputer) by oracle.clara.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ComJ-000FJd-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 28 May 2002 22:45:15 +0100 Message-ID: <009301c20690$ea85f4e0$d58e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: "UCP List" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:23:20 +0100 Subject: [UCP-List] Did God Lie? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 219 KP said; >Adam and Eve did NOT DIE >when they ate the apple, as >god had solemnly promised! I was looking at this from another angle. That Adam and Eve were in a 'pure' state. Wasn't it the apple that gave them self awareness? A classic descension experience, from GOD to DOG! Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-989-1022629430-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue May 28 23:43:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4SNhoJ09626 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 23:43:50 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-989-1022629430-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2002 23:43:50 -0000 X-Sender: bkrawage@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 28 May 2002 23:43:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 96213 invoked from network); 28 May 2002 23:43:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 May 2002 23:43:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 May 2002 23:43:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 May 2002 23:43:48 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "bkrawage" X-Originating-IP: 24.53.129.188 X-Yahoo-Profile: bkrawage MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:43:47 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] alt.clearing.ucp Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 220 news2.lightlink.com now has an entry for UCP... ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-990-1022632114-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 29 00:28:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4T0SZA15440 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 00:28:35 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-990-1022632114-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2002 00:28:34 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 29 May 2002 00:28:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 54253 invoked from network); 29 May 2002 00:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2002 00:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2002 00:28:32 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4T0SRW18145; Wed, 29 May 2002 00:28:27 GMT To: UCP List In-Reply-To: <009301c20690$ea85f4e0$d58e7ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 00:28:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Did God Lie? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 221 On Tue, 28 May 2002, Neal Pardoe wrote: > KP said; > >Adam and Eve did NOT DIE > >when they ate the apple, as > >god had solemnly promised! > > I was looking at this from another angle. That Adam and Eve were in a 'pure' > state. Wasn't it the apple that gave them self awareness? A classic > descension experience, from GOD to DOG! > > Neal. Thanks, Neal, I was going to say nearly exactly that, back to KP. You saved me the trouble. Gen. is not without its ironies. . . ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-991-1022664896-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 29 09:34:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4T9Yun14444 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 09:34:56 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-991-1022664896-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2002 09:34:56 -0000 X-Sender: ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 29 May 2002 09:34:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 41640 invoked from network); 29 May 2002 09:34:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2002 09:34:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2002 09:34:54 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4T9YnC12738; Wed, 29 May 2002 09:34:49 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <009101c20690$e8c9ed00$d58e7ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: From: Alexander Kxpke X-Yahoo-Profile: ucpalex MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:34:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 222 On Tue, 28 May 2002, Neal Pardoe wrote: > Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:06:45 +0100 > From: Neal Pardoe > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Net Prophet" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:29 AM > Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death > > > -----------snipped-------------- > Abner discussing response to Seeker having problems recalling a *specific > incidence of something; > > > You don't want to lay feelings on > > > the seeker. You just want to understand what's going on. > > > > KP; > > Yes. As long as you are reporting > > HOW IT *SEEMS* TO YOU, that > > seems to work pretty well. It falls > > apart badly if you tell them how it is. > > > > Excellent point.I noticed the following; > > In whatever manner the Seeker has chosen to communicate the problem, the > Witness is just informing the Seeker what the Witness has UNDERSTOOD them to > be saying. Giving the Seeker the Witness's viewpoint provides the Seeker > with something to COMPARE TO! But this would only be justified in the beginning? Until the seeker gets what she has to do. After all giving the seeker viewpoints that she can compare to however beneficial would not be UCP. It's the seeker who mocks up new viewpoints and not the witness. I would call it pre-UCP as prepares the seeker for formals sessions. I believe most seekers have had these pre-UCP sessions, solo/VW or witnessed. I know I did. The first sessions were almost painfull for me and only lasted about 3-5 mins. Perhaps the breakthrough was that I was able to look a bit at my life. That's where the formal sessions began and they then lasted from 30 mins to 2 hours. > The Seeker can then do the compare and correct/refine the view the Seeker > gave them. No eval/inval, just respect for the Seekers viewpoint! Yes! That is so important that it cannot be stressed enough. Best Wishes, Alexander K. > Neal. > ------------------------------------------- > A little learning is a dang'rous thing; > Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: > There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, > And drinking deep largely sobers us again. > > Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o > ------------------------------------------- > UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp > UCP on the net for FREE. > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-992-1022665265-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 29 09:41:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4T9f6n18122 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 09:41:06 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-992-1022665265-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2002 09:41:05 -0000 X-Sender: ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 29 May 2002 09:41:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 32502 invoked from network); 29 May 2002 09:41:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2002 09:41:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2002 09:41:04 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4T9exQ26848; Wed, 29 May 2002 09:40:59 GMT To: UCP List In-Reply-To: <009301c20690$ea85f4e0$d58e7ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: From: Alexander Kxpke X-Yahoo-Profile: ucpalex MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:40:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Did God Lie? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 223 On Tue, 28 May 2002, Neal Pardoe wrote: > Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 22:23:20 +0100 > From: Neal Pardoe > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > To: UCP List > Subject: [UCP-List] Did God Lie? > > KP said; > >Adam and Eve did NOT DIE > >when they ate the apple, as > >god had solemnly promised! > > I was looking at this from another angle. That Adam and Eve were in a 'pure' > state. Wasn't it the apple that gave them self awareness? A classic > descension experience, from GOD to DOG! A very interesting question there! Was it the apple that gave them self awareness? Or was it the fact that they decided to go against God's word? Decision is key. > Neal. > ------------------------------------------- > A little learning is a dang'rous thing; > Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: > There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, > And drinking deep largely sobers us again. > > Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o > ------------------------------------------- > UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp > UCP on the net for FREE. > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-993-1022665570-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 29 09:46:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4T9kAn21056 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 09:46:10 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-993-1022665570-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2002 09:46:10 -0000 X-Sender: ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 29 May 2002 09:46:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 72482 invoked from network); 29 May 2002 09:46:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2002 09:46:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2002 09:46:09 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4T9k0h07647; Wed, 29 May 2002 09:46:00 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Alexander Kxpke X-Yahoo-Profile: ucpalex MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:46:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] alt.clearing.ucp Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 224 On Tue, 28 May 2002, bkrawage wrote: > Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:43:47 -0000 > From: bkrawage > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [UCP-List] alt.clearing.ucp > > > news2.lightlink.com now has an entry for UCP... And? UCP is not clearing. I don't wanna go there. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-994-1022688317-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 29 16:05:28 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4TG5R427227 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 16:05:27 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-994-1022688317-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2002 16:05:17 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 29 May 2002 16:05:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 55474 invoked from network); 29 May 2002 16:05:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2002 16:05:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.67) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2002 16:05:12 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.151] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2002 16:05:11 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:05:09 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 225 This post is mainly writtenb for KP, but others can feel free to look at it. I have been reading Steven Rado's essays on his site, and here are some comments. This is a pretty long post, so brace yourself :) I haven't read his books so my understanding of his theories might be off, so I'll list what I think are the key points: 1) At the basis of all matter and fields lies aether. 2) Aether is a substance with qualities of a monoatomic ideal gas. Its elementary paerticles are called aethrons. 3) Elementary particles, such as electrons are circular vortexes in aether. 4) E=mc^2 is a consequence of kinetic energy of aether circulating the vortexes. 5) Electric and magnetic fields are manifestations of aether flow. 6) Light is a manifestation of pressure waves in aether, similar to sound waves in air. 7) Inertia is a manifestation of aetheric drag, similar to air resistance. 8) Relativistic increase in mass is a consequences of increase of drag when the speed approaches the speed of sound, similar to the inclease of air resistance when airplane is flying at nearly sonic speed. There is more to the theory, such as nature of gravity, but these are not covered in the online essays. Now, I want to go through the point in detail. I'll try to be very down-to-earth in my commentaries so that it'll be understandable to laymen (an noone accuses me that I am trying to hide behind complex math :). 1) At the basis of all matter and fields lies aether. ok. An assumption as good as any. IMHo it is kind of weird to consider a gas to be the most basic thing imaginable, because real gases are far from being simple. They can be roughly represented as a bunch of billiard balls flying around and colliding, but upon closer examinations those collisions are far from being an elementry process, they are quite complex electromagnetic interactions. But anyway, that's a given, so let's better see what can we do with this assumption. 2) Aether is a substance with qualities of a monoatomic ideal gas. It's elementary paerticles are called aethrons. Such substances are well-studied in all their variations. Helium is a very good prototype here. When it is a gas it behaves pretty much like an ideal monoatomic gas. When it is a super-cold liquid, it behaves like a friction-free ideal liquid (aka superfluid helium). Because of its interesting properties helium has been extensively researched and we can use the results of experiments with helium to gain insight into the aether hypotheis. Note, however, that when helium is in its ideal gas form, it does exhibit reistance, like any other gas. (there's a very good reason for that, which I'll explain later) Helium loses friction only when it is liquefied and is chilled almost to absolute 0. 3) Elementary particles, such as electrons are circular vortexes in aether. This is a very old theory, first proposed by Lord kelvin back in 19th century to explain the stability of atoms. It gained quite a wide support among 19th century physicists but was gradually abandoned after new experiments showed that atoms are rather complex structures with many parts. Now, a crucial point that makes the vortices stable is absense of friction. Otherwise the energy of aether motion will gradualy dissipate and get converted to heat. That seems to be fine, since we can assume that aether is frictionless, but here's a catch: ideal monoatomic gases are never frictionless. Superfluid helium is a notable exception, but in that state helium atoms do not behave at all like little solid elastic billiard balls. Let me explain why ideal monoatomic gases are bound to have friction. Consider a room filled with such a gas. Ther are no drafts or any wind, so the gas is essentially motionless. Microscopically there are atoms of gas flying back and forth, colliding with each other, but on average there's no motion. Now let's take a pump and create some flow - a wind - in the middle of the room. If there's no friction then the flow will last forever, even after we turn off the pump. Let's look closer at the boundary where moving gas contacts with the motionless gas in the room. Macroscopically we just have nonmoving gas here (say, at the bottom) and moving gas there (say, at the top, flowing to the right) and there's no visible reason for them to interact. But let's look at the microscopic picture. Then at the bottom we have atoms flying back and forth (with equal number of atoms flying to the left and to the right) and at the top we also have atoms flying in all directions, but more atoms are flying toward the right than toward the left. Since there's no barrier between those 2 layers once in a while we'll have atoms from top escaping to the bottom and atoms from the bottom making their way to the top. They will mix up. As these atoms collide with the others they will pass on some of their motion to them. Atoms from the bottom will slow down the top atoms and the top atoms will kick the bottom ones to the right (on average, of course). The net result will be that the top layer will get slowed down and the bottom layer will acquire some motion. We get friction! The exact amount of friction depends on pressure , relative velocity and other parameters, but it can be zero only if the pressure is zero, that is when moving atoms do not have this back and forth motion at all. That can be a feasible assumption in some circumstances (for instance, in case of dust clouds) but we cannot have vortexes without pressure, because it is pressure that holds the vortexes together! So here's the first problem: How do we explain the lack of friction in aether? 4) E=mc^2 is a consequence of kinetic energy of aether circulating the vortexes. So Rado here proposes taht since aether is moving in the vortextes, the energy of the motion is the famous rest energy that is equal to mc^2. Indeed kinetic energy is proportional to mass, so we see that energy contained in a vortex should be proportional to its mass. But why c^2, i.e. the speed of sound (as we'll see later)? According to Newton's laws, E=1/2 mv^2, where v is the velocity of the motion. An easy arithmetic excerize will show that this implies that atoms in the vortex move with average velocity around 1.41*c. There are 3 problems with this proposition. First of all, why this particular number? Why all vortexes have to spin around with this strange speed? I don't see any mechanism for that. There could be slow rotating vortexes and fat rotating vortexes, the specifics depend on how did the vortex come into being. At least that's how it goes with the real gases. Secondly, an average veloctity of atoms in the gas is about 1.34*c (c being the speed of sound) which is *less* than our required velocity. How come the gas in vortex is moving FASTER than molecules in the rest of gas. This situation cannot be created by interactions inside the gas, except as a fluke, there's just not enough punch in atomic motion. So what causes the gas in the voretxes to move at supersonic speeds? The third problem is that known elemetary particles only come in very specific masses. We don't have some electrons that are a bit heavier and some electrons that are a bit lighter, all electrons are absolutely indistinguishable from each other, in particular they have exactly same mass. And there are no particles that are, say, half the mass of electron. Masses of all known particles have been classified and all of them have very specific and precise value. Vortexes, on the other hand, can come in any form, shape and size, you can always make a vortex a little bit bigger by adding a few atoms to it or a little smaller,but removing a couple of atoms. How do you reconcile the experimentally observed discreteness of particle masses and continuity of vortex sizes? yes, I understand, that vortex sizes are not exactly contiunous , because of atomic structure of the gas however you'll find that in this case the possible masses are just multiples of the mass of an elementray aethron. Unfortunately the masses of known elementary particles are not multiples of some simple number. They are arranged in a more complex way. So here's the problem: How do you explain the observed precise masses of elementary particles in terms of simple vortices? (Note: If, instead of looking at the rotational energy of vortexes, we look at the vibrational energy - the vortex wiggles back and forth and these wiggle contain some energy too - then we *will* get a discrete set of masses. However, making them correspond to the masses of real elementary particles is a complex task and so far the efforts to do that beared no fruit) 5) Electric and magnetic fields are manifestations of aether flow. I think Rado says that magnetic lines correspond to aether flow lines, but I am not 100% positive about that. Anyway, let's consider a situation , where we have a powerful aetheric flow, say from left to right, created by a poweful magnet (or perhaps that should be a capacitor?). What would happen to a particle - a vortex in our model - when it gets into this flow? One of two things: If there is some friction, then the flow will drag the vortex to the right along with the flow. (but then the friction will eventually make the vortex itself will be unstable). If there's no friction then the vortex will be unaffected, it'll stay where it is. This has been verified in experiments with a real frictionless liquid (superfluid helium) What happens to real particles? A curious thing. Certain particles (called "positively charged") will be pushed to one side, while other particles (called "negatively charged") will be pushed to the *opposite* side! Yet the third kinds of particles (neutral ones) will remain unaffected. This effect is called Lorentz force. It's valid for both magnetic and electric fields, the difference is only in the exact direction of the force. How do you explain this phenomena in terms of aether flows? I realy don't see any natural way. Worse yet, in case of magnetic flows the resultant force is *always* perpendicular to the velocity of the particle. No mechanical force acts like that (and this was a stumbling block for 19th century physics, if I recall correctly) 6) Light is a manifestation of pressure waves in aether, similar to sound waves in air. Here we run into the phenomena of polarization. Rado claims that polarization can be somehow explained without resorting to the notion of transverse waves. The reason is that transverse waves contradict the ideal gas hypothesis, for all waves in ideal waves are longitudinal (i.e. go along the direction of wave propagation). However there are still some very good reasons to think that electromagnetic waves are transverse, *besides* the polarisation phenomenon. First of all, Maxwell equations predict that electromagnetic waves are transverse. Electromagnetic energy always flows at right angles both to magnetic and electric fields. This has been shown by J.H.Poynting in 1884. Second, let's consider a charged particle shaking back and forth. We will compare it to a small particle moving back and forth in air. We'll look at the disturbances that they cause in the environment. These disturbances (i.e. waves) cause other particles to shake in the direction parallel to the direction of shaking of the original particle. This is how it should be, otherwise we'll have problems with conservation of energy. In both cases these disturbances propagate in a wave-like manner (radio waves in the former case, sound waves in the latter case) but the manner they propagate is very different. The sound waves go mainly from the front and the back of the shaking particle. In other words, sound is the loudest when the particle is moving directly towards you or directly away from you. To see that more clearly, recall a stereo speaker - it sounds loudest from the front (there sound wave that goes backwards gets reflected from the back of the speaker box). The electromagnetic waves behave differently - they are mainly emitted sideways. (and this is why antennae are usually made vertical!) . The electromagnetic wave is the strongest when the charged particle is moving *across* your line of sight. If you take have a another little charged particle you'll see that it'll begin to shake at the right angle to the direction of waves (and this is very important in antennae design) So, how do you reconcile these transverse effects with the longitudinal characters of sound waves? There's yet another issue, related to the point 5 above. Sound waves propagate relative to the surrounding media, if the media is moving, then the sound waves will be dragged along. This effect should be familiar to anyone who tried to talk in a strong wind. Light should behave in a similar way - if we set up a strong aether flow then the light waves should change direction. For instance ,theoretically we should be able set up magnets and electic charges to create a strong aether wind. This wind should bend the light rays that go across it. In other words, strong electromagnetic fields should behave as a lens. This does not happen in nature. Electromagnetic fields and waves go freely across each other with no interaction whatsoever. 7) Inertia is a manifestation of aetheric drag, similar to air resistance. This, I believe, is simply a wrong proposition. First of all, we just have assumed that the aetheric medium is frictionless. If it is frictionless then it cannot offer any resistance at all. Second, Compare inertial forces and air resistance forces. According to the classic mechanics, if you are floating freely in space, not affected by any external forces then you will see NO inertial forces at all. Other objects that experience no visible interactions will keep on moving with a uniform speed, no matter how fast they are moving already. They will experience no resistance . Objects moving in a gas atmosphere , on other hand, will exerience resistance and decelerate to rest over time. One way to put it is to say that inertial forces depend on *acceleration*, while air drag forces depend on *velocity*. These are different values in general. Air drag forces also depend on shapes of objects, density and pressure of the medium. If that were try for insrtial forces, that means we could change the mass of objects by changing their shape or shining light (or radio waves, perhaps) on them. This is not true, to a great dismay of anti-gravity researchers. 8) Relativistic increase in mass is a consequences of increase of drag when the speed approaches the speed of sound, similar to the inclease of air resistance when airplane is flying at nearly sonic speed. Besides the comments I have made in point 7. I want to also note that travelling faster than sound is certainly possible. We have a plethora of technological examples - from Concordes to gun bullets. So the increase of resistance with speed in air is not limitless. It can be outdone, it requires some ingenuity, but it is possible. (and don't forget that there are already many atoms in air that do travel faster than speed of sound) On other hand noone has ever reliably observed a real object moving faster than light. People has been looking for tachyons for more tnan 50years and so far in vain. How do you explain the absense of faster-than-light phenomena in the aether model? There's also another point, not covered by Rado at all, as far as I know. And this is the nature of nuclear interactions. It's easy to see that they cannot be electromagnetic (for these try to pull the nucleaus apart), nor gravitational (too weak). Unfortunately they are also very complex beasts and their strength depends on almost anything it can possibly depend on. The exact law was only deciphered in 60's-70's and it is not straightforward at all. However, any theory that purports to be a unified theory HAS to take these forces into account and explain them. By the way , the need for those forces was realized in the late 19th century by Poincare when analyzing behavior of charged particles and electric fields. So, IMHO, if I understand it at all correctly, Rado's model needs a lot of more work to reconcile its internal contradictions and to be considered a viable candidate as a theory of matter and fields. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-995-1022700956-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed May 29 19:35:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4TJZuf19695 for ; Wed, 29 May 2002 19:35:56 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-995-1022700956-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2002 19:35:56 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 29 May 2002 19:35:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 86636 invoked from network); 29 May 2002 19:35:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 May 2002 19:35:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.68) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 May 2002 19:35:54 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.129] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 May 2002 19:35:54 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:35:53 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: F X-Keywords: X-UID: 227 Hi, A couple of weeks ago I have posted a variation on the UCP theme that went: Where(who) you are not? Compare to where(who) you are? Regarding which KP suggested that it does not necessarily cover all bases. Well, I made some field testing (10 hours or so) and consulted with some folks on the russian UCP list (ucp-ru), who also played around with the approach. It turned out that the question worked reasonably well but sometimes there came up situations that did not quite fit the question. On other hand, this question picked up stuff that did not quite fit the classic ucp questions either. For instance, "Where I am not?" picked up charged places and situations in present time, also it picked up a lot of abandoned attention. The question also clarified the concept of "space" and "distance" to some degree. So there were certain positive results. So, upon a suggestion by MindHacker from ucp-ru I decided to settle on a compromise of sorts: using both classic ucp question and their negations. That possible questions are: Where have you been? Where haven't you you been? Where you are not? Where you might be? Where you will not be? ...or reasonable variations thereof. Then, of course, compare the answers to where you are. At the moment, it seems to me that these 5 questions cover more ground than just the 2 classic ones. The questions do overlap to a certain extent, but in my experience not completely. Negative questions often readily pick up hot situations and considerations that don't come up easily "the classic way". Hopefully this helps in your quest to enlighetment :) Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-996-1022717156-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 00:05:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4U05ua26996 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 00:05:56 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-996-1022717156-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 00:05:56 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 00:05:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 20632 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 00:05:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 00:05:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.173) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 00:05:54 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 May 2002 17:05:54 -0700 Received: from 130.195.196.201 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 30 May 2002 00:05:54 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 May 2002 00:05:54.0882 (UTC) FILETIME=[C477F220:01C2076D] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [130.195.196.201] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 00:05:54 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 228 First of all: thank you to everyone who's written with helpful advice; I'm glad to have it confirmed that I'm at least getting *somewhere*. ;-) Comments below. From: "Neal Pardoe" >I suggest you get her to explain what *she means by 'frequently'. Obviously >there is something hot there, you got a classic 'avoid answering the >question' (which we all do/have done). and interestingly, keeps things just >as they are! [...] > >'Frequently' in this context seems to mean all the time, No, not really - well, not visibly, anyway. Usually she keeps functioning, and interacting at a superficial level, at a pretty constant "contented" tone. It's just when anything emotionally stressful or demanding happens that she curls up in the "Ball of Denial". >Get her talking about frequently. Thanks. I'll try it. From: Abba Noor >What the seeker thinks she wants might be sympathy. That way she would >be able to validate her insanity, confirm her victimhood, and not change >anything. >What I get is here we have a Queen of Empathy paired up with a Black >Hole of Misery. My suggestions are based on that. I doubt this analysis - I've been associated with enough sympathy vampires in my life to know the sure signs of one, and Melanie's not like that. When she's in her "ball of misery" she doesn't try to evoke sympathy - she doesn't seem to want *anything*, except to not be forced to look at the misery and instead to be left alone to repress it back into its little box. She seems to think she can make the bad feelings disappear by sheer force of will, and doesn't want me to even acknowledge they exist. From: KP >That's where she is. > >Don't fight with it. > >Just LOOK at it. > >Where might she be? Again, good advice. Although it's difficult to restrain my urges to fight whatever is bugging my sweetheart... even if it's herself. thanks once again for all your input, ondine _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-997-1022728539-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 03:15:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4U3FdL16847 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 03:15:39 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-997-1022728539-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 03:15:39 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 03:15:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 97095 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 03:15:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 03:15:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 03:15:36 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4U3FTT01566; Thu, 30 May 2002 03:15:29 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 03:15:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Breath, Sex, Death Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 229 On Thu, 30 May 2002, Ondine Green wrote: > From: Abba Noor > > >What the seeker thinks she wants might be sympathy. That way she would > >be able to validate her insanity, confirm her victimhood, and not change > >anything. > > >What I get is here we have a Queen of Empathy paired up with a Black > >Hole of Misery. My suggestions are based on that. > > I doubt this analysis - I've been associated with enough sympathy vampires > in my life to know the sure signs of one, and Melanie's not like that. When > she's in her "ball of misery" she doesn't try to evoke sympathy - she > doesn't seem to want *anything*, except to not be forced to look at the > misery and instead to be left alone to repress it back into its little box. > She seems to think she can make the bad feelings disappear by sheer force of > will, and doesn't want me to even acknowledge they exist. Hmmm. Is that word "forced" yours or hers? If she feels forced you aint'a gonna get nowhere. UCP is an opportunity to examine parts of your life. Melanie is fortunate to have someone willing to do that with her. Note: I am NOT saying you are forcing her, or trying to. If she used that word, that may be her experience -- gentle though you may be in fact. If she in fact DID feel "forced", you might try the magic words. . . Anyhow I'm glad you have been able to rule out the sympathy suck. ;) Best, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-998-1022746880-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 08:21:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.78]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4U8LJX19878 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 08:21:19 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-998-1022746880-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 08:21:20 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 08:21:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 58981 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 08:21:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 08:21:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 08:21:17 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.209]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA05528 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 03:21:09 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020530011742.00eab8c0@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 01:17:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 230 Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory [alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology] Oleg wrote: >This post is mainly writtenb for KP, but others can feel free to look >at it. > >I have been reading Steven Rado's essays on his site, FANTASTIC! NOW READ THE BOOKS! >and here are some comments. >This is a pretty long post, so brace yourself :) > >I haven't read his books so my understanding of his theories might be >off, so Yes. You've duplicated quite a bit, but also misduplicated *KEY* points. I'm quite sure you will be STUNNED by his presentation when you read it! >I'll list what I think are the key points: >1) At the basis of all matter and fields lies aether. Yes. >2) Aether is a substance with qualities of a monoatomic ideal gas. Yes. >Its elementary paerticles are called aethrons. Yes. >3) Elementary particles, such as electrons are circular vortexes in aether. Close. Three-dimensional! Such as represented by the animiated gif, not two-dimensional circular. This is KEY to your non-aligned arguments about transverse waves. There are movements on all three axes. You collapse his theory into 2 dimensions, before bothering to acutally read it, and then argue that it lacks a third! An electron may be many stages more complex, as in patterns of vortexes, but YES, a sink-vortex is KEY to his theory. >4) E=mc^2 is a consequence of kinetic energy of aether circulating >the vortexes. And of the increased energy required to accelerate something as it goes faster. >5) Electric and magnetic fields are manifestations of aether flow. Yes. >6) Light is a manifestation of pressure waves in aether, similar to >sound waves in air. Yes. >7) Inertia is a manifestation of aetheric drag, similar to air >resistance. ???? I don't know what you mean. Maybe he says something like that at his web site? From the basics of his theory, the closest true statement I generate is likely to be similar to: Gravity is a manifestation of aetheric inertia, similar to air resistance. >8) Relativistic increase in mass is a consequences of increase of >drag when the speed approaches the speed of sound, similar to the >inclease of air resistance when airplane is flying at nearly sonic >speed. Yes. "Increase in mass" is a THEORETICAL PROJECTION from the measurable amount of energy input required for acceleration. I consider that is probably a hallucinatory error. >There is more to the theory, such as nature of gravity, but these are >not covered in the online essays. The nature of gravity is the key to it all. >Now, I want to go through the point in detail. I'll try to be very >down-to-earth in my commentaries so that it'll be understandable to >laymen (an noone accuses me that I am trying to hide behind complex >math :). Wonderful! >1) At the basis of all matter and fields lies aether. >ok. An assumption as good as any. IMHo it is kind of weird to >consider a gas to be the most basic thing imaginable, because real >gases are far from being simple. You have IDENTIFIED or CONFUSED real gasses and ideal gasses, which are two completely different things! >They can be roughly represented as a >bunch of billiard balls flying around and colliding, Yes. Spherical frictionless solids in random brownian motion >but upon closer examinations those collisions >are far from being an elementry process, In the REAL or the IDEAL? The IDEAL is always an abstract perfect absolute simple. A close examination of the idea gas reveals a blueprint for the physical universe. >they are quite complex electromagnetic interactions. After you build up to that level of complexity from the original SIMPLE IDEAL MODEL. >But anyway, that's a given, so let's better see what can we do with this >assumption. =========================== Just about ALL of physics, *IF* YOU ACTUALLY READ RADO'S BOOKS! =========================== >2) Aether is a substance with qualities of a monoatomic ideal gas. >It's elementary paerticles are called aethrons. >Such substances are well-studied in all their variations. Ronsense! IDEAL GASSES can only be studied by IDEAL EXPERIMENTS, such as Rado conducts in his books. You have obviously NOT conducted the proper experiments, or you could explain gravity. Some REAL gasses have been studied, among them helium. >Helium is a >very good prototype here. When it is a gas it behaves pretty much >like an ideal monoatomic gas. OK! Then it is frictionless! >When it is a super-cold liquid, it >behaves like a friction-free ideal liquid (aka superfluid helium). Way Cool! Frictionlessness even in a macroscopic wet fluid! >Because of its interesting properties helium has been extensively >researched and we can use the results of experiments with helium to >gain insight into the aether hypotheis. It does give us observations to compare to! >Note, however, that when helium is in its ideal gas form, it does >exhibit reistance, like any other gas. Then it does NOT behave like an IDEAL GAS, which is frictionless. You are again confusing the real and the ideal. >(there's a very good reason >for that, which I'll explain later) Helium loses friction only when >it is liquefied and is chilled almost to absolute 0. OK. Still a stunning display of frictionlessness in the macroscopic world! Counter-intuitive even! That should thrill you! >3) Elementary particles, such as electrons are circular vortexes in >aether. Not circular! Complex three dimensional! >This is a very old theory, first proposed by Lord kelvin back in 19th >century to explain the stability of atoms. Yes. Rado recounts the entire history of physics. READ AND LEARN! >It gained quite a wide >support among 19th century physicists but was gradually abandoned >after new experiments showed that atoms are rather complex structures >with many parts. SO ARE VORTEXES! AND PATTERNS OF VORTICES, or whatever you call them! Look at that three dimensional flow you keep calling "circular"! Which might better be described as an involuting/evoluting rotating toroid sink vortex. >Now, a crucial point that makes the vortices stable is absense of >friction. Otherwise the energy of aether motion will gradualy >dissipate and get converted to heat. Yes. Frictionlessness of the basic athrons is key to the theory which generates friction between macroscopic particles. READ RADO! >That seems to be fine, since we can assume that aether is >frictionless, but here's a catch: We DID assume aether is frictionless! >ideal monoatomic gases are never frictionless. IDEAL monoatomic gasses are ALWAYS frictionless. You are again confusing the IDEAL and the REAL or ACTUAL. The THEORY and the THING are NOT the same thing. An IDEAL GAS is a THEORETICAL SUBSTANCE. >Superfluid helium is a >notable exception, but in that state helium atoms do not behave at >all like little solid elastic billiard balls. And it is certainly not individual aethrons in brownian motion either! You are CONFUSING aethrons and atoms! >Let me explain why ideal monoatomic gases are bound to have friction. You are expanding upon your confusion with computation. Ideal monoatomic gasses are DEFINED as frictionless! >Consider a room filled with such a gas. Ther are no drafts or any >wind, so the gas is essentially motionless. Microscopically there are >atoms of gas flying back and forth, colliding with each other, but on >average there's no motion. NO! You have completely misrepresented the scene. On the average . . . there is MOTION EVERYWHERE! >Now let's take a pump and create some flow - a wind - in the middle >of the room. Is this a SINK VORTEX or an EXHAUST FAN? >If there's no friction then the flow will last forever, >even after we turn off the pump. Let's look closer at the boundary >where moving gas contacts with the motionless gas in the room. ALL the gas is moving fabulously fast! >Macroscopically we just have nonmoving gas here (say, at the bottom) >and moving gas there (say, at the top, flowing to the right) and >there's no visible reason for them to interact. But let's look at the >microscopic picture. Then at the bottom we have atoms flying back and >forth (with equal number of atoms flying to the left and to the >right) and at the top we also have atoms flying in all directions, >but more atoms are flying toward the right than toward the left. > >Since there's no barrier between those 2 layers once in a while we'll >have atoms from top escaping to the bottom and atoms from the bottom >making their way to the top. They will mix up. As these atoms collide >with the others they will pass on some of their motion to them. Atoms >from the bottom will slow down the top atoms and the top atoms will >kick the bottom ones to the right (on average, of course). The net >result will be that the top layer will get slowed down and the bottom >layer will acquire some motion. The patterns will interact. >We get friction! NO! You do NOT get friction in this situation. You simply MIX the gasses. That is NOT friction. You start out by assuming the individual collisions are frictionless, and then IDENTIFY friction with the interaction of frictionless interractions. That does not follow in any way. >The exact amount of >friction depends on pressure , relative velocity and other >parameters, but it can be zero only if the pressure is zero, that is >when moving atoms do not have this back and forth motion at all. This is all irrelevant figure-figure about your confusion between observed gasses and ideal gasses. >That can be a feasible assumption in some circumstances (for instance, in >case of dust clouds) but we cannot have vortexes without pressure, >because it is pressure that holds the vortexes together! That IS true! It's the very basis of his theory. WHICH YOU HAVE *NOT* GUESSED! >So here's the first problem: How do we explain the lack of friction >in aether? We do NOT explain it. It is an ASSUMED property of IDEAL GASSES. >From that assumption, you can generate the physical universe . . . theoretically of course! READ RADO'S BOOKS! >4) E=mc^2 is a consequence of kinetic energy of aether circulating the >vortexes. AND of the extra energy required to accelerate something already in motion. >So Rado here proposes taht since aether is moving in the vortextes, >the energy of the motion is the famous rest energy that is equal to >mc^2. Indeed kinetic energy is proportional to mass, so we see that >energy contained in a vortex should be proportional to its mass. I think I follow you and you are correct so far. >But why c^2, i.e. the speed of sound (as we'll see later)? According to >Newton's laws, E=1/2 mv^2, where v is the velocity of the motion. An >easy arithmetic excerize will show that this implies that atoms in >the vortex move with average velocity around 1.41*c. WHAT vortex is that? You lost me. >There are 3 problems with this proposition. > >First of all, why this particular number? Why all vortexes have to >spin around with this strange speed? I don't see any mechanism for >that. There could be slow rotating vortexes and fat rotating >vortexes, the specifics depend on how did the vortex come into being. >At least that's how it goes with the real gases. RADO GENERATES ALL OF KEPLER'S LAWS FROM HIS THEORY. *YOUR* PROBLEM IS LECTURING *BEFORE* LEARNING! >Secondly, an average veloctity of atoms in the gas is about 1.34*c (c >being the speed of sound) which is *less* than our required velocity. >How come the gas in vortex is moving FASTER than molecules in the >rest of gas. This situation cannot be created by interactions inside >the gas, except as a fluke, there's just not enough punch in atomic >motion. So what causes the gas in the voretxes to move at supersonic >speeds? If you had READ Rado, and you made this objection, I would give your opinion some credibility, because that makes intuitive sense to me. But I believe he generates all the normal math to explain observed interactions. If you criticized HIS ARGUMENTS, I would cheer you on. But you are criticizing what you THINK his arguments are. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME! YOU GET NO CHEERING! >The third problem is that known elemetary particles only come in very >specific masses. We don't have some electrons that are a bit heavier >and some electrons that are a bit lighter, all electrons are >absolutely indistinguishable from each other, in particular they have >exactly same mass. And there are no particles that are, say, half the >mass of electron. Masses of all known particles have been classified >and all of them have very specific and precise value. Vortexes, on >the other hand, can come in any form, shape and size, you can always >make a vortex a little bit bigger by adding a few atoms to it or a >little smaller,but removing a couple of atoms. How do you reconcile >the experimentally observed discreteness of particle masses and >continuity of vortex sizes? yes, I understand, that vortex sizes are >not exactly contiunous , because of atomic structure of the gas >however you'll find that in this case the possible masses are just >multiples of the mass of an elementray aethron. Unfortunately the >masses of known elementary particles are This is an EXCELLENT question, which I have put to Steve Rado myself, and which has not been answered yet. I believe it probably has to do with the sizes of some extremely complex lattice structures . . . of lattice structures. Complex 3-D spherical structures of spherical structures? No one knows yet. >not multiples of some simple number. >They are arranged in a more complex way. I agree. >So here's the problem: How do you explain the observed precise >masses of elementary particles in terms of simple vortices? That has NOT been adequately demonstrated yet. >(Note: If, instead of looking at the rotational energy of vortexes, >we look at the vibrational energy - the vortex wiggles back and forth >and these wiggle contain some energy too - then we *will* get a >discrete set of masses. However, making them correspond to the masses >of real elementary particles is a complex task and so far the efforts >to do that beared no fruit) OK. >5) Electric and magnetic fields are manifestations of aether flow. >I think Rado says that magnetic lines correspond to aether flow >lines, but I am not 100% positive about that. I think Rado says that aether flows of one kind or another are the electrical, the magnetic and the electro-magnetic too, . . . AND EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE TOO! >Anyway, let's consider a situation , where we have a powerful >aetheric flow, say from left to right, created by a poweful magnet >(or perhaps that should be a capacitor?). How about an electron, a planetary system, or a galaxy? >What would happen to a >particle - a vortex in our model - when it gets into this flow? It would be accelerated by it's local aether wind. >One of two things: If there is some friction, then the flow will >drag the vortex to the right along with the flow. (but then the >friction will eventually make the vortex itself will be unstable). You are confusing two different things: friction the interaction of two possibly frictionless vortexes. >If there's no friction then the vortex will be unaffected, it'll stay >where it is. This has been verified in experiments with a real >frictionless liquid (superfluid helium) > >What happens to real particles? A curious thing. Certain particles >(called "positively charged") will be pushed to one side, while other >particles (called "negatively charged") will be pushed to the >*opposite* side! Yet the third kinds of particles (neutral ones) will >remain unaffected. This effect is called Lorentz force. It's valid >for both magnetic and electric fields, the difference is only in the >exact direction of the force. > >How do you explain this phenomena in terms of aether flows? I realy >don't see any natural way. But then you haven't read the book either. LOOK at the basic animated gif diagram. =========== READ RADO! =========== He wrote a 450 page book to answer that question! If you READ it, you would KNOW what he said and could talk about *IT* instead of your WRONG THEORY ABOUT WHAT HIS THEORY REALLY IS! >Worse yet, in case of magnetic flows the resultant force is *always* >perpendicular to the velocity of the particle. No mechanical force >acts like that (and this was a stumbling block for 19th century >physics, if I recall correctly) Rado carefully analyses the previous errors regarding this topic. I'm sure you are much more capable of testing his theory than I! >6) Light is a manifestation of pressure waves in aether, similar to >sound waves in air. Yes. >Here we run into the phenomena of polarization. Rado claims that >polarization can be somehow explained without resorting to the notion >of transverse waves. And he exhaustively treats that very subject! READ RADO! >The reason is that transverse waves contradict >the ideal gas hypothesis, for all waves in ideal waves are >longitudinal (i.e. go along the direction of wave propagation). > >However there are still some very good reasons to think that >electromagnetic waves are transverse, *besides* the polarisation >phenomenon. > >First of all, Maxwell equations predict that electromagnetic waves >are transverse. Electromagnetic energy always flows at right angles >both to magnetic and electric fields. This has been shown by >J.H.Poynting in 1884. > >Second, let's consider a charged particle shaking back and forth. We >will compare it to a small particle moving back and forth in air. >We'll look at the disturbances that they cause in the environment. That is a HYPOTHETICAL charged particle . . . hypothetically shaking back and forth. And YOUR hypothetical particle is NOT Rado's hypothetical particle! READ RADO'S BOOK! >These disturbances (i.e. waves) cause other particles to shake in the >direction parallel to the direction of shaking of the original >particle. This is how it should be, otherwise we'll have problems >with conservation of energy. >In both cases these disturbances propagate in a wave-like manner >(radio waves in the former case, sound waves in the latter case) but >the manner they propagate is very different. The sound waves go >mainly from the front and the back of the shaking particle. In other >words, sound is the loudest when the particle is moving directly >towards you or directly away from you. > >To see that more clearly, recall a stereo speaker - it sounds loudest >from the front (there sound wave that goes backwards gets reflected >from the back of the speaker box). > >The electromagnetic waves behave differently - they are mainly >emitted sideways. (and this is why antennae are usually made >vertical!) . The electromagnetic wave is the strongest when the >charged particle is moving *across* your line of sight. If you take >have a another little charged particle you'll see that it'll begin to >shake at the right angle to the direction of waves (and this is very >important in antennae design) > >So, how do you reconcile these transverse effects with the >longitudinal characters of sound waves? READ RADO! In the time you are spending writing long posts figure-figuring about how you might object to what Rado might say, you could READ RADO and KNOW exactly what he says. I'd be VERY interested in your report on THAT. But I'm not really keen on LONG FIGURE-FIGURE about what you *THINK* Rado must have said. >There's yet another issue, related to the point 5 above. Sound waves >propagate relative to the surrounding media, if the media is moving, >then the sound waves will be dragged along. This effect should be >familiar to anyone who tried to talk in a strong wind. Light should >behave in a similar way - if we set up a strong aether flow then the >light waves should change direction. For instance ,theoretically we >should be able set up magnets and electic charges to create a strong >aether wind. This wind should bend the light rays that go across it. >In other words, strong electromagnetic fields should behave as a >lens. This does not happen in nature. Electromagnetic fields and >waves go freely across each other with no interaction whatsoever. FLUNK! Gravity IS the aether wind, which *DOES* bend light. *STOP* COMPULSIVELY FIGURE-FIGURE THINKING ABOUT YOUR *GUESSES* ABOUT RADO'S THEORY! =========== READ RADO! =========== You are writing objections to a theory you have not read! One sees how that works! GIVE IT UP! >7) Inertia is a manifestation of aetheric drag, similar to air >resistance. ????? >This, I believe, is simply a wrong proposition. I don't think you understand what he is trying to say. WHY DON'T YOU READ HIS BOOK? Then you could talk about *WHAT IS* instead of what you THINK MIGHT BE. >First of all, we just >have assumed that the aetheric medium is frictionless. If it is >frictionless then it cannot offer any resistance at all. Assuming frictionless interactions between individual aetherons is NOT an argument that friction between PARTICLES is not real. Rado builds particles from aethrons one step at a time with rigorous math. READ RADO! >Second, Compare inertial forces and air resistance forces. According >to the classic mechanics, if you are floating freely in space, not >affected by any external forces then you will see NO inertial forces >at all. Other objects that experience no visible interactions will >keep on moving with a uniform speed, no matter how fast they are >moving already. They will experience no resistance . Objects moving >in a gas atmosphere , on other hand, will exerience resistance and >decelerate to rest over time. You are confusing the THEORETICAL IDEAL GAS with atmospheric gas. >One way to put it is to say that inertial forces depend on >*acceleration*, while air drag forces depend on *velocity*. These are >different values in general. Air drag forces also depend on shapes of >objects, density and pressure of the medium. If that were try for >insrtial forces, that means we could change the mass of objects by >changing their shape or shining light (or radio waves, perhaps) on >them. This is not true, to a great dismay of anti-gravity >researchers. You must have misunderstood the implications of a snippet article. READ RADO'S BOOK! >8) Relativistic increase in mass is a consequences of increase of >drag when the speed approaches the speed of sound, similar to the >inclease of air resistance when airplane is flying at nearly sonic >speed. Something like that. An analogy. I think you didn't proofread it. >Besides the comments I have made in point 7. I want to also note that >travelling faster than sound is certainly possible. Yes. We know. >We have a >plethora of technological examples - from Concordes to gun bullets. >So the increase of resistance with speed in air is not limitless. It >can be outdone, it requires some ingenuity, but it is possible. Agreed. But the increase in energy required is similar. >(and don't forget that there are already many atoms in air that do travel >faster than speed of sound) > >On other hand noone has ever reliably observed a real object moving >faster than light. People has been looking for tachyons for more tnan >50years and so far in vain. > >How do you explain the absense of faster-than-light phenomena in the >aether model? I don't know how his theory in any way predicts faster than light phenomena. It seems that there cannot be such a thing? If I remember the theory correctly, the speed of light is LESS than that of the random mean velocity of the aetherons, but that would not be a perceivable phenomenon. >There's also another point, not covered by Rado at all, as far as I >know. And this is the nature of nuclear interactions. It's easy to >see that they cannot be electromagnetic (for these try to pull the >nucleaus apart), nor gravitational (too weak). Unfortunately they are >also very complex beasts and their strength depends on almost >anything it can possibly depend on. The exact law was only deciphered >in 60's-70's and it is not straightforward at all. However, any >theory that purports to be a unified theory HAS to take these forces >into account and explain them. By the way , the need for those forces >was realized in the late 19th century by Poincare when analyzing >behavior of charged particles and electric fields. I don't know if his theory accounts for that or not. WHY DON'T YOU READ IT YOURSELF? With your physics background and math, you will surely understand it better than I! >So, IMHO, if I understand it at all correctly, You do *NOT* understand it! You are THINKING about what you DUB-IN he theory must be, from little snippets. You are fighting with straw-ghost arguments you made up in the absence of ACTUAL DATA. >Rado's model needs a lot of more work YOU NEED TO READ RADO BEFORE CRITICIZING WHAT YOU *THINK* HIS ARGUMENTS *MIGHT* BE! LEARN *BEFORE* LECTURING! >to reconcile its internal contradictions NONE of which you have cited. You are talking about what you IMAGINE. You have NOT imagined his theory. Your theory about his theory is flawed. I'll give you right off what I consider MIGHT be a flaw. It seems to me that the aetheric pressure is not enough to contain the energy of the very compact vortexes. You probably have the math skills to investigate that. BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THE THEORY, SO YOU CAN'T BE OF ANY USE! >and to be considered a viable candidate as a theory of matter and fields. > >Best, >Oleg You would have to READ his book BEFORE you could be considered a viable candidate . . . to review it! STOP LECTURING! START LEARNING! READ RADO! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-999-1022748762-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 08:52:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.108]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4U8qgX11799 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 08:52:42 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-999-1022748762-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 08:52:43 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 08:52:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 31621 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 08:52:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 08:52:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 08:52:41 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.209]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA09337 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 03:52:38 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020530014913.00bdf008@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 01:49:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 231 Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation [alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology] Oleg wrote: >Hi, > >A couple of weeks ago I have posted a variation on the UCP theme that >went: > >Where(who) you are not? >Compare to where(who) you are? > >Regarding which KP suggested that it does not necessarily cover all >bases. > >Well, I made some field testing (10 hours or so) and consulted with >some folks on the russian UCP list (ucp-ru), who also played around >with the approach. Cool! You DID something! Made a test. Got some actual experience! Communicated with other viewpoints! Got cooperation and information! >It turned out that the question worked reasonably well but sometimes >there came up situations that did not quite fit the question. On >other hand, this question picked up stuff that did not quite fit the >classic ucp questions either. WHAT does UCP not quite fit? >For instance, "Where I am not?" picked up charged places and >situations in present time, How can you avoid that with "Where I am?" >also it picked up a lot of abandoned attention. The normal action of UCP does that for me. >The question also clarified the concept of "space" >and "distance" to some degree. So there were certain positive results. OK. >So, upon a suggestion by MindHacker from ucp-ru I know MindHacker has done a bunch of "improved" versions of UCP, but I haven't seen much evidence that he's done UCP. >I decided to settle >on a compromise of sorts: using both classic ucp question and their >negations. That possible questions are: NONE of the people who HAVE come up through death with UCP have found this necessary. Do you imagine you know more about UCP than they do? >Where have you been? >Where haven't you you been? That comes up for me on where I might be. Or where I was . . . looking at where I wasn't. Or I might be back in time, and make a different choice. That's options to options in another metaphor. I see NO necessity for extra complexity. >Where you are not? I am where I don't want to be is so obvious it defies surprise. >Where you might be? >Where you will not be? Or might not be. Or could imagine yourself being or not being. You are inventing complexity to cover all situations of the precise denotations of words, and IGNORING the fact that UCP IS WHAT YOU DO, NOT the questions you ask yourself. Your "improvement" IGNORES the basics. The questions are only a training aide! They are ALWAYS to be interpreted as broadly as possible, to include anything you have attention on, and exclude nothing! They are like handrails you grab when you're not certain about your footing! Otherwise, you're off and running! >...or reasonable variations thereof. > >Then, of course, compare the answers to where you are. > >At the moment, it seems to me that these 5 questions cover more >ground than just the 2 classic ones. I don't see that they cover more ground. I think you are imagining a necessity that does not exist. >The questions do overlap to a >certain extent, but in my experience not completely. Negative >questions often readily pick up hot situations and considerations >that don't come up easily "the classic way". WHO says they don't come up easily for who? YOU seem to be interested in negative questions NOW. YOU should look at them as long as YOU have attention on them. That should NOT be a universal guide for everyone always. You can look at WHATEVER YOU like without the rest of us having to redo basic simple UCP. >Hopefully this helps in your quest to enlighetment :) > >Best, >Oleg Thanks for the Report! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1000-1022782525-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 18:15:25 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4UIFOL24377 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 18:15:24 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1000-1022782525-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 18:15:26 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 18:15:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 67419 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 18:15:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 18:15:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 18:15:23 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.143] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 18:15:23 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020530011742.00eab8c0@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:15:22 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 232 I tell you what, Instead of playing "broken phone" here, I'll ask the question to the man himself. I'll let you know what he says, if you wish. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1001-1022784088-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 18:41:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4UIfSL19176 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 18:41:28 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1001-1022784088-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 18:41:29 -0000 X-Sender: pullgees@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 18:41:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 95020 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 18:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 18:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.73) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 18:41:26 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.175] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 18:41:26 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020530014913.00bdf008@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "pullgees" X-Originating-IP: 195.92.168.173 X-Yahoo-Profile: pullgees MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:41:24 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 233 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > > > Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation > > [alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology] > > Oleg wrote: > >Hi, > > > >A couple of weeks ago I have posted a variation on the UCP theme that > >went: > > > >Where(who) you are not? > >Compare to where(who) you are? > > > >Regarding which KP suggested that it does not necessarily cover all > >bases. > > > >Well, I made some field testing (10 hours or so) and consulted with > >some folks on the russian UCP list (ucp-ru), who also played around > >with the approach. > > Cool! > > You DID something! > > Made a test. > > Got some actual experience! > > Communicated with other viewpoints! > > Got cooperation and information! > > >It turned out that the question worked reasonably well but sometimes > >there came up situations that did not quite fit the question. On > >other hand, this question picked up stuff that did not quite fit the > >classic ucp questions either. > > WHAT does UCP not quite fit? > > >For instance, "Where I am not?" picked up charged places and > >situations in present time, > > How can you avoid that with "Where I am?" > > >also it picked up a lot of abandoned attention. > > The normal action of UCP does that for me. > > >The question also clarified the concept of "space" > >and "distance" to some degree. So there were certain positive results. > > OK. > > >So, upon a suggestion by MindHacker from ucp-ru > > I know MindHacker has done a bunch of > "improved" versions of UCP, but I haven't > seen much evidence that he's done UCP. > > >I decided to settle > >on a compromise of sorts: using both classic ucp question and their > >negations. That possible questions are: > > NONE of the people who HAVE come > up through death with UCP have found > this necessary. Do you imagine you > know more about UCP than they do? > > >Where have you been? > >Where haven't you you been? > > That comes up for me on where I might be. > > Or where I was . . . looking at where I wasn't. > > Or I might be back in time, > and make a different choice. > > That's options to options > in another metaphor. > > I see NO necessity > for extra complexity. > > >Where you are not? > > I am where I don't want to be > is so obvious it defies surprise. > > >Where you might be? > >Where you will not be? > > Or might not be. > Or could imagine yourself being or not being. > > You are inventing complexity > to cover all situations of the > precise denotations of words, > and IGNORING the fact that > UCP IS WHAT YOU DO, NOT > the questions you ask yourself. > > Your "improvement" IGNORES the basics. > > The questions are only a training aide! > > They are ALWAYS to be interpreted as > broadly as possible, to include anything > you have attention on, and exclude nothing! > > They are like handrails you grab when > you're not certain about your footing! > > Otherwise, you're off and running! > > >...or reasonable variations thereof. > > > >Then, of course, compare the answers to where you are. > > > >At the moment, it seems to me that these 5 questions cover more > >ground than just the 2 classic ones. > > I don't see that they cover more ground. > > I think you are imagining a necessity that does not exist. > > >The questions do overlap to a > >certain extent, but in my experience not completely. Negative > >questions often readily pick up hot situations and considerations > >that don't come up easily "the classic way". > > WHO says they don't come up easily for who? > > YOU seem to be interested in negative questions NOW. > > YOU should look at them as long as YOU have attention on them. > > That should NOT be a universal guide for everyone always. > > You can look at WHATEVER YOU like without > the rest of us having to redo basic simple UCP. > > >Hopefully this helps in your quest to enlighetment :) > > > >Best, > >Oleg > > Thanks for the Report! > > Best Wishes, > > WE'LCOME TO > *ACTUALLITY!* I'm still around just taking five well maybe six. I don't think Oleg understands UCP he is always messing around with the wording. He seems to need an exact command to do a specific task as one might under hypnosis or in auditing. Even I who struggles with it - and really needs a witness - understands what you do with UCP. Still that's where Oleg is. By the way your spelling of *ACTUALLITY* is wrong, actually there should only be one L. Pullgees ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1002-1022786538-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 19:22:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4UJMHC17664 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 19:22:17 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1002-1022786538-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 19:22:18 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 19:22:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 85421 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 19:22:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 19:22:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 19:22:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.187] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 19:22:12 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:22:12 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: F X-Keywords: X-UID: 234 --- In ucplist@y..., "pullgees" wrote: > I'm still around just taking five well maybe six. > I don't think Oleg understands UCP he is always messing around with > the wording. Always? heh. Most of the time when I do UCP (or whatever I understand as UCP) I don't even use words. Just comparing whatever my attention is on to whatever I think is "present time". Words are only important when you describe what is it you are doing to others. If I encounter something that I believe might be applicable to other people I share it. Take it or leave it. > He seems to need an exact command to do a specific task > as one might under hypnosis or in auditing. But that's not how it is. (even though I do normally value precision in language) What I was getting at is that there are very hot areas in human minds (not referring to anyone in particular) which they avoid looking at because they think they NEVER can be there. "Me, killing cute kittens?! Nonsense!" "Becoming a junkie? Absurd! Can't happen!" (a little puff of smoke coming out their ears) I have observed this behaviour in myself and in others. It's really not that uncommon. If you plainly ask them "where you might be?" or "where have you been?" they would *never ever* touch that area. Because they decided it can never happen to them, in the past or in the future! Even if it actually did happen (which is likely) then they have denied any responsibility for it. So you are just going straight against their determination *not* to deal with the subject. So, ok, I say. What is it that cannot happen? (not necessarily in these words, it's the concept which is important) "Oh, I cannot ever be a mafia boss" Hah! *Now* they are looking! Yes, it's a trick of sorts. So what? Got them (or myself) looking and comparing, that's the goal. > Even I who struggles > with it - and really needs a witness - understands what you do with > UCP. Still that's where Oleg is. My measurement of (my own) understanding is the progress I make. Subjectively it feels like I am making headway. "C is for Cookie, that's good enough for me." :) If you do UCP differently, and you also feel you are improving, who am I to stop you?! Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1003-1022787699-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 19:41:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4UJfcC07449 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 19:41:38 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1003-1022787699-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 19:41:39 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 19:41:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 26796 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 19:41:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 19:41:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 19:41:38 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4UJfU117479; Thu, 30 May 2002 19:41:30 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:41:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 235 On Thu, 30 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > I tell you what, > > Instead of playing "broken phone" here, I'll ask the question to the > man himself. I'll let you know what he says, if you wish. Unless it is an extraordinarily wonderful question, I predict he will refer you to his book. ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1004-1022790936-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 20:35:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4UKZZU28783 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 20:35:36 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1004-1022790936-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 20:35:37 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 20:35:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 71340 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 20:35:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 20:35:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 20:35:35 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.162] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 20:35:35 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 20:35:34 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 236 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > Unless it is an extraordinarily wonderful question, I predict he will > refer you to his book. We'll see. Most theoreticians I have encountered LOVE to discuss their theories. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1005-1022791867-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 20:51:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4UKp7U14442 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 20:51:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1005-1022791867-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 20:51:07 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 20:51:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 72813 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 20:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 20:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 20:51:05 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.167]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA06616 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 15:51:02 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020530134738.108a8a98@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020530011742.00eab8c0@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 13:47:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 237 Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Posted to: emailist: "UCP-list" newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology Oleg wrote: >I tell you what, > >Instead of playing "broken phone" here, >I'll ask the question to the man himself. I don't know what question that is. Your phone is not broken. You are NOT listening. >I'll let you know what he says, if you wish. Sure! >Best, >Oleg WHY DON'T YOU *READ* HIS BOOKS? ISN'T THAT THE *OBVIOUS* GAMBIT? It seems you'd rather *DIE* than read before reviewing! Is READING his arguments *BEFORE* you attempt to refute them a place you can imagine yourself imagining someday? He does not usually respond to silly questions from people who have not bothered to READ his rigorous exposition of his amazing theory. *HE* read the entire history of physics for FIFTY YEARS BEFORE he wrote his first sentence on physics. Then he wrote TWO huge massively detailed BOOKS about his theory. Without reading those books, and probably without studying physics for fifty years in adulthood, you are nevertheless stunningly convinced that YOU know more about *HIS THEORY* . . . than HE does! TAKE A BREAK! =========== GET A CLUE! =========== His attitude toward physicists who THINK they know all about HIS theory because they know about *OTHER* theories seems to be similar to my attitude towards $pyontologists who THINK they know all about UCP through $pyontology. He usually does not bother to waste his time. And he usually doesn't mince words about it! When I send him a sensible question, such as wouldn't the Michaelson-Morley experiment work properly if you rotated it 90 degrees, I might hear later from a mutual friend that he found it interesting. He's too busy to reply. He's in his late 80's, and he has done more for the subject of physics than ANY other physicist, and his time is obviously short. I heartily sympathize with his attitude! ============================= You HAVE the opportunity to READ his books and THANK HIM while he is alive. ============================= And PERHAPS even to get YOUR ACTUAL QUESTIONS answered!. But you CAN'T HAVE IT it because you are too busy *PRETENDING* you know more about HIS THEORY than he does! Apparently . . . you'd rather die! Than stop PRETENDING you know what you don't! I would *NOT* want to be YOU reading his books after he dies. That would be TORTURE! YOU would seriously hate yourself fershur. But DO *YOUR* thing! Best Wishes for a Speedy Recovery! WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1006-1022793826-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 21:23:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4ULNjE17943 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 21:23:45 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1006-1022793826-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 21:23:46 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 21:23:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 81759 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 21:23:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 21:23:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 21:23:44 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.167]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA14514 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 16:23:42 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020530142019.10893720@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:20:19 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 238 Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology Abba Noor wrote: >> Unless it is an extraordinarily wonderful question, >>I predict he will refer you to his book. IF Rado writes back at all. Oleg: >We'll see. >Most theoreticians I have encountered LOVE to discuss their theories. > >Best, >Oleg YES! WITH THOSE WHO HAVE ACTUALLY *READ* THEM! And have sane questions! NOT WITH IDIOTS WHO THINK THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT HIS THEORY AND PHYSICS THAN HE DOES, WITHOUT EVER READING HIS THEORY! Most theoreticians you have encountered are NOT RADO. Why not just break down and FIND OUT what his theory is? Best Wishes for a Speedy Recovery WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1007-1022794351-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 21:32:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4ULWTE26182 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 21:32:29 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1007-1022794351-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 21:32:31 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 21:32:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 76862 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 21:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 21:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 21:32:29 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.167]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16824 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 16:32:27 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020530142859.108c7710@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 14:28:59 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 239 Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology Pullgees: >I'm still around just taking five well maybe six. Cool! I asked about you lately. >I don't think Oleg understands UCP he is >always messing around with the wording. Yes. He's so heavily into THINK that he keeps making UCP into something else, just like he keeps DUBBING IN what he THINKS Rado's theory is to criticize. He's convinced that he knows more about UCP than KP and more about physics than Rado, so he's helping us fix our obvious mistakes. >He seems to need an exact command to do a specific >task as one might under hypnosis or in auditing. Exactly! Heavily into THINK, WASTE SUBSTITUTE, DOUBT, SYMBOLS, frantically computing about figure figure MIGHT-BES! And completely unable to confront *WHAT IS* by just simply and obviously READING Rado's books BEFORE writing a critique of his theory! >Even I who struggles with it - and really needs a witness - Cool! Have you looked at where you've felt that same struggle in other areas of your life? "Can I Get a Witness?" is an ancient question! Looking at really needing a witness might shift things! You might still need a witness, and be more able to witnesself. >understands what you do with UCP. Way Cool! >Still that's where Oleg is. Yes. Trying to FIGURE it out, and about to actually SEE that! >From some other comments he has made, I think he really *IS DOING* UCP, and will be coming up out of those tone levels soon. Passing through that level, many people figure-figure on how best to improve UCP! It's just another phase to go through. >By the way your spelling of *ACTUALLITY* is wrong, actually there >should only be one L. >Pullgees That's shorthand for *ALL* of the ACTUALITY of the *ALL!* Thanks for checking in! Did you see the Co-Witness List? It's on the UCP MIRROR, see sig. I know of one thousand-mile free co-witness using free web2phone. Maybe you could get yourself a witness? Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1008-1022795764-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 21:56:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4ULu3E17169 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 21:56:03 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1008-1022795764-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 21:56:04 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 21:56:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 22971 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 21:56:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 21:56:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.90) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 21:56:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.177] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 21:56:02 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020530134738.108a8a98@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 21:56:00 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 240 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > > > Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory > > > Posted to: > emailist: "UCP-list" > newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology > > > > Oleg wrote: > >I tell you what, > > > >Instead of playing "broken phone" here, > >I'll ask the question to the man himself. > > I don't know what question that is. > > Your phone is not broken. > > You are NOT listening. > > >I'll let you know what he says, if you wish. > > > WHY DON'T YOU *READ* HIS BOOKS? Because they are hard to obtain if you happen NOT to live in US. > > ISN'T THAT THE *OBVIOUS* GAMBIT? Not for everyone. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1009-1022796262-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 22:04:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.91]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4UM4LE25827 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 22:04:21 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1009-1022796262-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 22:04:22 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 22:04:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 22701 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 22:04:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 22:04:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 22:04:21 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.167]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21817 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 17:04:18 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020530150053.108d1d60@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:00:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 241 Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology "pullgees" wrote: >> I'm still around just taking five well maybe six. >> I don't think Oleg understands UCP he is always messing around with >> the wording. Oleg: >Always? heh. Most of the time when I do UCP (or whatever I understand >as UCP) I don't even use words. Just comparing whatever my attention >is on to whatever I think is "present time". Words are only important >when you describe what is it you are doing to others. EXCELLENT! You really ARE doing it then! This figure-figure on what the proper commands are is just a tone level display. >From some of your other comments, I had wondered if you really had the idea or not, since you were fixing on the WORDS or SYMBOLS so much. >If I encounter something that I believe might be applicable to other >people I share it. Take it or leave it. Way Cool! >> He seems to need an exact command to do a specific task >> as one might under hypnosis or in auditing. >But that's not how it is. (even though I do normally value precision >in language) Good! Thanks for correcting my misunderstanding! >What I was getting at is that there are very hot areas in human minds >(not referring to anyone in particular) which they avoid looking at >because they think they NEVER can be there. "Me, killing cute >kittens?! Nonsense!" "Becoming a junkie? Absurd! Can't happen!" (a >little puff of smoke coming out their ears) Sure! That's the entire DISASSOCIATION realm. >I have observed this behaviour in myself and in others. >It's really not that uncommon. Sure! Look around! >If you plainly ask them "where you might be?" or "where have >you been?" they would *never ever* touch that area. FALSE! YOUR AS-IF-MIGHT-BE IS A NOT-IS! UCP RAPIDLY BUILDS THE PRACTITIONERS ABILITY TO LOOK AT ANYTHING, INCLUDING AND ESPECIALLY THINGS YOU THINK THEY DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT! YOU ARE DISASSOCIATING FROM THE REPORTS IN FAVOR OF YOUR THINK RE "NEVER-EVER"! In UCP one is NOT trying to get the Seeker to look at something the Seeker does not want to look at. You misunderstand UCP! You look at ONE imaginary question, and conclude that they will NEVER EVER answer with some particular class of answers, but you don't allow us to ask the question forever. Your example is not logically consistent even internally, . . . and does not relate well to the real world either. Your assumption of what they SHOULD look at is false. Your assumption of what they WOULD look at is false. >Because they decided >it can never happen to them, in the past or in the future! Even if it >actually did happen (which is likely) then they have denied any >responsibility for it. So you are just going straight against their >determination *not* to deal with the subject. I am NOT going against ANYTHING! Your theory is that UCP does not work because it does not function according to your theory. But reports suggest that UCP as it is RAPIDLY CHANGES what one is willing and interested to look at. >So, ok, I say. What is it that cannot happen? (not necessarily in >these words, it's the concept which is important) > >"Oh, I cannot ever be a mafia boss" > >Hah! *Now* they are looking! Yes, it's a trick of sorts. So what? Got >them (or myself) looking and comparing, that's the goal. FIGURE FIGURE AND THINK THINK THEY NEED TRICKS TO TALK TO THEMSELVES. Again, you are FOCUSED on the exact technical meaning of words that everyone knows DO NOT really closely describe the *DOING* that is UCP. And you can't imagine never ever *WANTING* to be a mafia boss? Your hairsplitting about questions is irrelevant when the questions are about as wide as a whale's butt, and designed to inflate like an air-bag! Anything you have your attention on can be reasonably expressed as some variation on past, present and future. >> Even I who struggles >> with it - and really needs a witness - understands what you do >with >> UCP. Still that's where Oleg is. >My measurement of (my own) understanding is the progress I make. >Subjectively it feels like I am making headway. "C is for Cookie, >that's good enough for me." :) Excellent! >From your descriptions of HOW you DO sessions, I'd say you've gotten yourself well up into DOUBT! >If you do UCP differently, and you also feel you are improving, who >am I to stop you?! > >Best, >Oleg WAY COOL! One of the things you have do do in DOUBT is to examine the ACTUAL PRODUCTS or statistics of whatever. That's how you can evaluate Rado's theory instead of *YOUR* DUB-IN of what Rado's theory MIGHT BE. Then when you confront the theory and hit liability you can be accountable and apologize for being far too thickheaded to take the clue. And we'll have a good laugh about it! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1010-1022796851-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 22:14:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4UMEAA04138 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 22:14:10 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1010-1022796851-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 22:14:11 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 22:14:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 77634 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 22:14:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 22:14:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 22:14:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.179] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 22:14:09 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020530142019.10893720@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 22:14:05 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 242 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > > IF Rado writes back at all. One can always hope. > Oleg: > >We'll see. > >Most theoreticians I have encountered LOVE to discuss their theories. > > > >Best, > >Oleg > > > YES! > > WITH THOSE WHO HAVE > ACTUALLY *READ* THEM! I actually did read what he wrote on his website. That is what I am going to ask about. I am not going to ask him about what is in his books. > > And have sane questions! > > NOT WITH IDIOTS WHO THINK > THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT > HIS THEORY AND PHYSICS > THAN HE DOES, WITHOUT > EVER READING HIS THEORY! Geez. If I ever need an ego boost, I can always count on you. > > Most theoreticians you have > encountered are NOT RADO. All of them. > > Why not just break down and > FIND OUT what his theory is? By the way, do YOU thoroughly understand it? If no, then how can you judge whether it is good or not? You seem to be subscribing to his theory, so you must have made the choice based on something, no? If you do understand it, then why do you have to always refer me to his books? I can (at least attempt to) explain you my understanding of physics without referring you to any books. "What do your materials state?" is not a very good way to promote understanding, as CofS practice shows. So, Who is holding a discussion here? Me and You or Me and You on Rado's behalf? Personally, I was talking to *you*, KP. However, If you are only discussing physics on Rado's behalf then I think the extra via is completely unwarranted. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1011-1022798927-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 22:48:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4UMmkA03188 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 22:48:46 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1011-1022798927-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 22:48:47 -0000 X-Sender: bobbukovac@juno.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 22:48:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 23042 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 22:48:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 22:48:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO m11.jersey.juno.com) (64.136.22.74) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 22:48:45 -0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"keNGq3TbgO58Ej//YEvW3ZZuh4n1PZyaOcbPc69o/Jfr9REjC9GhGA=="> Received: (from bobbukovac@juno.com) by m11.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G34F3YJ8; Thu, 30 May 2002 18:47:55 EDT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20020530.184854.-179947.0.bobbukovac@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3 From: Bob Bukovac MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 18:48:52 -0400 Subject: [UCP-List] attunement; definition (?) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 243 Can't find "attunement", nor "atunement" at dictionary.com. Found atonement, but it seems highly unlikely that it is what was intended for that entry on the chart. KP: can you provide a definition? B ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1012-1022800575-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 23:16:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4UNGD125134 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 23:16:13 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1012-1022800575-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 23:16:15 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 23:16:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 17118 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 23:16:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 23:16:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 23:16:13 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.94] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A2BD1F550062; Thu, 30 May 2002 19:16:13 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF6B2B9.6F79A4BE@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:16:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 244 Hi Oleg, I think you have come across some good questions and I plan to use them. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1013-1022801146-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu May 30 23:25:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4UNPj102467 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 23:25:45 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1013-1022801146-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 23:25:46 -0000 X-Sender: pullgees@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 30 May 2002 23:25:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 54737 invoked from network); 30 May 2002 23:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 30 May 2002 23:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.72) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 30 May 2002 23:25:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.175] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 30 May 2002 23:25:45 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "pullgees" X-Originating-IP: 195.92.168.164 X-Yahoo-Profile: pullgees MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 23:25:44 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 245 --- In ucplist@y..., "punkfloyd.rm" wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., "pullgees" wrote: > > > I'm still around just taking five well maybe six. > > I don't think Oleg understands UCP he is always messing around with > > the wording. > > Always? heh. Most of the time when I do UCP (or whatever I understand > as UCP) I don't even use words. Just comparing whatever my attention > is on to whatever I think is "present time". Words are only important > when you describe what is it you are doing to others. > > If I encounter something that I believe might be applicable to other > people I share it. Take it or leave it. > > > He seems to need an exact command to do a specific task > > as one might under hypnosis or in auditing. > > But that's not how it is. (even though I do normally value precision > in language) > > What I was getting at is that there are very hot areas in human minds > (not referring to anyone in particular) which they avoid looking at > because they think they NEVER can be there. Quite right but that is where they are - hiding their dark side from themselves. Presumably if they just keep going with UCP they will be able to confront that aspect. Or maybe not necessary for some. As they come upscale what was there but suppressed no longer matters as they have peeled off that layer that held those thoughts and moved on. Not everything has to be gone through. My little experience with UCP has demonstrated that it tends to back me out of stuff. It objectivises me because I am witnessing myself. It is very Buddhist. "Me, killing cute > kittens?! Nonsense!" "Becoming a junkie? Absurd! Can't happen!" (a > little puff of smoke coming out their ears) > > I have observed this behaviour in myself and in others. It's really > not that uncommon. > > If you plainly ask them "where you might be?" or "where have you > been?" they would *never ever* touch that area. Because they decided > it can never happen to them, in the past or in the future! Even if it > actually did happen (which is likely) then they have denied any > responsibility for it. So you are just going straight against their > determination *not* to deal with the subject. > > So, ok, I say. What is it that cannot happen? (not necessarily in > these words, it's the concept which is important) > > "Oh, I cannot ever be a mafia boss" > > Hah! *Now* they are looking! Yes, it's a trick of sorts. So what? Got > them (or myself) looking and comparing, that's the goal. Yes I see how that works but could it not force them into a higher level before they have done with the one they are on? You see it seems to me that it is not UCP because it interfering. You are attempting to divert attention to where you think it should go. When you step back and look you will see that is simply where you are. Have you done that before? Could you do it again? Personally I don't think you need to go sniffing around too much, life will soon remind you of a hot item and your attention will be on it afterwards for a while that is the time to do UCP on it. > > > > Even I who struggles > > with it - and really needs a witness - understands what you do > with > > UCP. Still that's where Oleg is. > > My measurement of (my own) understanding is the progress I make. > Subjectively it feels like I am making headway. "C is for Cookie, > that's good enough for me." :) > > If you do UCP differently, and you also feel you are improving, who > am I to stop you?! > > Best, > Oleg In some ways you are like me, keep forgetting to note, where you are. Again it is very Buddhist. Pullgees ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1014-1022804143-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 00:15:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4V0Fgt15631 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 00:15:42 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1014-1022804143-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 00:15:43 -0000 X-Sender: chris_ellen49@yahoo.com.au X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 00:15:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 26440 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 00:15:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 00:15:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web10705.mail.yahoo.com) (216.136.130.213) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 00:15:42 -0000 Message-ID: <20020531001542.31897.qmail@web10705.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [203.171.97.237] by web10705.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 31 May 2002 10:15:42 EST To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CF6B2B9.6F79A4BE@directus.net> From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Chris=20Shap?= X-Yahoo-Profile: chris_ellen49 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 10:15:42 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 246 Hi judy how are you feeling good i hope i try to read as many emails as i can , judy wrote: Hi Oleg, I think you have come across some good questions and I plan to use them. Judy To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --------------------------------- The Sold.com.au Big Brand Sale- New PCs, notebooks, digital cameras, phones and more ... Sale ends June 12 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From abulu3001@email.com Fri May 31 01:18:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from demthu.saomai.org (IDENT:root@demthu.saomai.org [192.67.63.35]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4V1Il610223 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 01:18:47 GMT Received: from ab97c2418.com ([195.166.233.231]) by demthu.saomai.org (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA16337 for ; Thu, 30 May 2002 20:18:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200205310118.UAA16337@demthu.saomai.org> From: "DR EFO ABULU" Reply-To: abulu3001@email.com To: abner@sdf.lonestar.org Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 02:24:39 +0100 Subject: URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by otaku.freeshell.org id g4V1Il610223 Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 247 EFO ABULU EMAIL: abulu3001@email.com ATTN, URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP First, I must solicit your confidence in this transaction, which is of mutual benefit. This is by virtue of it's nature of being utterly confidential.I am sure and have confidence of your ability, and reliability to prosecute a transaction of this great magnitude. We are top Officials of the Federal Government Contract review Panel who are interested in importation of goods into our country with funds which are presently trapped in Nigeria. In order to commence this business,we need your assistance to enable us transfer funds into your account. As members of the Contract Review Panel set up by the Government of Nigeria to review all contracts from 1983 to the present,we have identified a lot of inflated contract funds which are presently floating in the Central Bank of Nigeria ready for payment. By virtue of our position as Civil Servants and members of this Panel, we cannot acquire this money in our names, in this regard I have been delegated by my c! olleagues of the review Panel to look for an overseas partner into whose account we would transfer the sum of US$21,320,000.00 ( Twenty -One Million, Three Hundred and Twenty Thousand United States Dollars) hence we take the liberty to write you. The money will be shared as follows:- 1. 20% for you the account owner 2. 70% for us (The Officials) 3. 10% to be used in settling taxation and all local and foreign expenses. Please note that this whole process will take between 7 to 10 working days from the date of receipt of the following information by the above Email address Your individual/Company's signed and stamped letterhead with a transcribed"Text" which we would send to you upon receipt of your reply with a letter of interest. The above information will enable us write letter of claim, and Job description by using your individual/Company name to apply for payment for the above stated amount. Please acknowledge the receipt of this letter using the above Email address. Detailed information of this pending business transaction will be sent to you as soon as I hear from you. Yours faithfully, DR.EFOSA ABULU. From sentto-6247521-1015-1022813611-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 02:53:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4V2rU201496 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 02:53:30 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1015-1022813611-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 02:53:32 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 02:53:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 50785 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 02:53:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 02:53:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 02:53:31 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4V2rH712386; Fri, 31 May 2002 02:53:17 GMT To: DR EFO ABULU Cc: complaint@ifcc.fbi.gov, In-Reply-To: <200205310118.UAA16337@demthu.saomai.org> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 02:53:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [UCP-List] Re: URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 251 Dear Dr Abulu- Thank you so much so much for your great offer. I'm sure others will be interested. So I am forwarding your letter to the FBI. -Abba Noor _______________________________________ On Fri, 31 May 2002, DR EFO ABULU wrote: > Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 02:24:39 +0100 > From: DR EFO ABULU > To: abner@sdf.lonestar.org > Subject: URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP > > EFO ABULU > EMAIL: abulu3001@email.com > > ATTN, > > URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP First, I > must solicit your confidence in this > transaction, which is of mutual > benefit. This is by virtue of it's > nature of being utterly > confidential.I am sure and have > confidence of your ability, and > reliability to prosecute a > transaction of this great magnitude. > We are top Officials of the Federal > Government Contract review Panel who > are interested in importation of > goods into our country with funds > which are presently trapped in > Nigeria. In order to commence this > business,we need your assistance to > enable us transfer funds into your > account. As members of the Contract > Review Panel set up by the Government > of Nigeria to review all contracts > from 1983 to the present,we have > identified a lot of inflated contract > funds which are presently floating in > the Central Bank of Nigeria ready for > payment. By virtue of our position as > Civil Servants and members of this > Panel, we cannot acquire this money > in our names, in this regard I have > been delegated by my c! olleagues of > the review Panel to look for an > overseas partner into whose account > we would transfer the sum of > US$21,320,000.00 ( Twenty -One > Million, Three Hundred and Twenty > Thousand United States Dollars) hence > we take the liberty to write you. > The money will be shared as follows:- > 1. 20% for you the account owner 2. > 70% for us (The Officials) 3. 10% to > be used in settling taxation and all > local and foreign expenses. > > Please note that this whole process will take between 7 to 10 working > days from the date of receipt of the following information by the > above Email address Your individual/Company's signed and stamped > letterhead with a transcribed"Text" which we would send to you upon > receipt of your reply with a letter of interest. The above information > will enable us write letter of claim, and Job description by using > your individual/Company name to apply for payment for the above stated > amount. Please acknowledge the receipt of this letter using the above > Email address. Detailed information of this pending business > transaction will be sent to you as soon as I hear from you. Yours > faithfully, DR.EFOSA ABULU. > > > > abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1016-1022824767-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 05:59:27 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4V5xQt08920 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 05:59:26 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1016-1022824767-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 05:59:28 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 05:59:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 46683 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 05:59:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 05:59:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 05:59:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.153] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 05:59:24 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 05:59:23 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 252 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > Dear Dr Abulu- > > Thank you so much so much for your great offer. > I'm sure others will be interested. > So I am forwarding your letter to the FBI. > > -Abba Noor According to CNN this is the third most popular spam out there (If I recall correctly). It's coming from South Africa and their police has already made some arrests. So don't worry FBI about it - they know already 8) Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1017-1022826344-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 06:25:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.108]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4V6Pio01077 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 06:25:44 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1017-1022826344-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 06:25:45 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 06:25:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 99957 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 06:25:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 06:25:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 06:25:43 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4V6Pa020352; Fri, 31 May 2002 06:25:36 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 06:25:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 253 On Fri, 31 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > Dear Dr Abulu- > > > > Thank you so much so much for your great offer. > > I'm sure others will be interested. > > So I am forwarding your letter to the FBI. > > > > -Abba Noor > > According to CNN this is the third most popular spam out there (If I > recall correctly). Yeah, I heard that too. I've been getting this one for about 15 years. They started with international mail. I complained to the postal inspector. Then they stopped for a while. Now they are resurfacing as e-mails. >It's coming from South Africa and their police has > already made some arrests. I am skeptical of that story. I seem to remember a 60 Minutes segment on this. The government and the banks and the scam artists are all in cahoots together. > So don't worry FBI about it - they know already 8) Sure. They probably read all my mail. I agree. Totally redundant. . . ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1018-1022831714-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 07:55:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4V7tDO13306 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 07:55:13 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1018-1022831714-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 07:55:14 -0000 X-Sender: ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 07:55:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 40312 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 07:55:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 07:55:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 07:55:13 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4V7t5q19533; Fri, 31 May 2002 07:55:05 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Alexander Kxpke X-Yahoo-Profile: ucpalex MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 07:55:05 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 255 On Thu, 30 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 19:22:12 -0000 > From: punkfloyd.rm > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation > > --- In ucplist@y..., "pullgees" wrote: > > > I'm still around just taking five well maybe six. > > I don't think Oleg understands UCP he is always messing around with > > the wording. > > Always? heh. Most of the time when I do UCP (or whatever I understand > as UCP) I don't even use words. Just comparing whatever my attention > is on to whatever I think is "present time". Words are only important > when you describe what is it you are doing to others. > > If I encounter something that I believe might be applicable to other > people I share it. Take it or leave it. > > > He seems to need an exact command to do a specific task > > as one might under hypnosis or in auditing. > > But that's not how it is. (even though I do normally value precision > in language) > > What I was getting at is that there are very hot areas in human minds > (not referring to anyone in particular) which they avoid looking at > because they think they NEVER can be there. "Me, killing cute > kittens?! Nonsense!" "Becoming a junkie? Absurd! Can't happen!" (a > little puff of smoke coming out their ears) > > I have observed this behaviour in myself and in others. It's really > not that uncommon. > > If you plainly ask them "where you might be?" or "where have you > been?" they would *never ever* touch that area. Because they decided > it can never happen to them, in the past or in the future! Even if it > actually did happen (which is likely) then they have denied any > responsibility for it. So you are just going straight against their > determination *not* to deal with the subject. I disagree here. You don't need to decide what the seeker has to look at. Whatever the attention is on it is on and that is what the seeker can look at. Eventually the seeker will get to the point where she can look at being a junkie or lousy mother or whatever. I understand your intentions to have the seeker look at "hot" areas but the seeker will have her own gradient. As witnesses we don't have to worry about that. If we just ask the questions the seeker will run, sorry about that word, herself. That's why Neal said that is almost a no brainer. > So, ok, I say. What is it that cannot happen? (not necessarily in > these words, it's the concept which is important) > > "Oh, I cannot ever be a mafia boss" > > Hah! *Now* they are looking! Yes, it's a trick of sorts. So what? Got > them (or myself) looking and comparing, that's the goal. Where might you be? I might be a mafia boss! I don't really see why you want to put in the negative command. As you see the "trick" works just fine with the "formal" commands. 80) The seeker will not be able to look at it until the attention goes to it anyways. Your variation will not trick any seeker to do that. The formal questions will do the job anyways. > > Even I who struggles > > with it - and really needs a witness - understands what you do > with > > UCP. Still that's where Oleg is. > > My measurement of (my own) understanding is the progress I make. > Subjectively it feels like I am making headway. "C is for Cookie, > that's good enough for me." :) > > If you do UCP differently, and you also feel you are improving, who > am I to stop you?! Agree. If you can see improvement and it works for you then go ahead. This has always been true for UCPeons. > Best, > Oleg > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1019-1022845824-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 11:50:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.84]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VBoM828358 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 11:50:22 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1019-1022845824-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 11:50:24 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 11:50:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 3450 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 11:50:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 11:50:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.85) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 11:50:24 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.141] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 11:50:24 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:50:19 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: F X-Keywords: X-UID: 256 --- In ucplist@y..., Alexander Kxpke wrote: > > I disagree here. You don't need to decide what the seeker has to look at. Even when the seeker and the witness are the same person? :) > Whatever the attention is on it is on and that is what the seeker can look > at. I think the troubles come not from what the seeker is looking AT but what he/she is looking THROUGH, WITH or FROM. By hook or by crook we would like to get him to examine these points as well. In this case the person is already looking at the world in terms of *negation*, trying to prove to him/herself that he is NOT like this. He is being a not-murderer, a not-lousy mother, a not-junkie etc. There are not only compulsive beingnesses, but compulsive not-beingnesses as well. This is similar to the repair question "Have you ever felt like that?" . We just parallel what the person is already doing, make it explicit. By the way, asking "Have you ever felt *unlike* that?" works just as well. > > Eventually the seeker will get to the point where she can look at being a > junkie or lousy mother or whatever. Perhaps. I stumbled on the approach while doing normal UCP. At that moment it became quite clear that people are not-being just as frequently as being. For a while I even though that not-being is even more fundamental than being, but now I think it's the same breed of a cat. > > I understand your intentions to have the seeker look at "hot" areas but > the seeker will have her own gradient. As witnesses we don't have to worry > about that. If we just ask the questions the seeker will run, sorry about > that word, herself. That's why Neal said that is almost a no brainer. I don not know whether asking for the positive side only (that is he classic UCP) will eventually give the same results as positive+negative. I don't think negative+positive can be *worse* than positive-only, and if there's a potential improvement to be had, then I belive this is worth investigating. > > > So, ok, I say. What is it that cannot happen? (not necessarily in > > these words, it's the concept which is important) > > > > "Oh, I cannot ever be a mafia boss" > > > > Hah! *Now* they are looking! Yes, it's a trick of sorts. So what? Got > > them (or myself) looking and comparing, that's the goal. > > Where might you be? I might be a mafia boss! Except that's one thing he is sure he will NEVER be. Zero chance. Not even hypothetically. He'd rather be shot. Anything one is valiantly fighting/opposing falls under that category. So the closest thing I expect to come up with "Where you might be?" would be "Fighting mafia", "Dealing with mafia", "Working for police" and so forth. But of course I only have my own experience to go by, so your mileage may vary. > > I don't really see why you want to put in the negative command. As you see > the "trick" works just fine with the "formal" commands. 80) I never said NOT to use normal commands :) If they work well for you - fine! > > The seeker will not be able to look at it until the attention goes to it > anyways. Your variation will not trick any seeker to do that. The formal > questions will do the job anyways. That I am not convinced about. The stuf that has been coming up on the "not" question had very different flavour from anything I have encountered on the positive question. I believe there is a *chance* that it covers more ground. And if that's so then I have nothing to lose and everything to win by trying it out. > If you can see improvement and it works for you then go ahead. This > has always been true for UCPeons. The lack of KSW has certain advantages, that's for sure :) I am genuinely surprised at how much resistance a simple take-it-or- leave-it suggestion can generate. Perhaps I should charge money for suggestions then at least there would be a good reason for fighting them :) Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1020-1022847041-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 12:10:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VCAd312414 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 12:10:39 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1020-1022847041-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 12:10:41 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 12:10:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 86235 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 12:10:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 12:10:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 12:10:39 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.114] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A83D343700A0; Fri, 31 May 2002 08:10:37 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF7683B.627FBA55@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <20020531001542.31897.qmail@web10705.mail.yahoo.com> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 08:10:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 257 Hello, How nice to hear from you. I am doing pretty good with only a mild reoccurrence of some symptoms such as food not having much taste and some mild discomfort with swallowing. This surprises me that this has come back and makes me question whether there is some psychological stuff going on. As a rule I can spot that. I just can never understand the defensive/attack method of KP. That is surely not a model I wish to imitate. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1021-1022848458-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 12:34:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VCYG328635 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 12:34:16 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1021-1022848458-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 12:34:18 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 12:34:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 89718 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 12:34:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 12:34:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 12:34:16 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.166] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 12:34:15 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3CF6B2B9.6F79A4BE@directus.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:34:13 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 258 --- In ucplist@y..., judy wrote: > Hi Oleg, > > I think you have come across some good questions and I plan to use them. > > Judy Cool. Let us know how it goes! Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1022-1022850809-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 13:13:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VDDXr28710 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 13:13:33 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1022-1022850809-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 13:13:30 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 13:13:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 74831 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 13:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 13:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 13:13:29 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.187] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 13:13:29 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3CF7683B.627FBA55@directus.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 13:13:28 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 259 --- In ucplist@y..., judy wrote: > Hello, > > How nice to hear from you. I am doing pretty good with only a mild > reoccurrence of some symptoms such as food not having much taste and > some mild discomfort with swallowing. This surprises me that this has > come back and makes me question whether there is some psychological > stuff going on. As a rule I can spot that. I might be completely off here, but I know many types of medicine (antibiotics, for instance) have exactly that side-effect. I am glad you are doing better! > > I just can never understand the defensive/attack method of KP. That is > surely not a model I wish to imitate. That's one of the things I'd use for comparing :) Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1023-1022861739-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 16:15:39 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.91]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VGFct26920 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 16:15:38 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1023-1022861739-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 16:15:39 -0000 X-Sender: ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 16:15:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 82740 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 16:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 16:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 16:15:37 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4VGFTK16826; Fri, 31 May 2002 16:15:29 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Alexander Kxpke X-Yahoo-Profile: ucpalex MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:15:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 260 On Fri, 31 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:50:19 -0000 > From: punkfloyd.rm > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation > > --- In ucplist@y..., Alexander Kxpke wrote: > > > > I disagree here. You don't need to decide what the seeker has to > look at. > > Even when the seeker and the witness are the same person? :) It seems to me that you're trying to control what the seeker should look at, solo or not, which is totally unnecessary. To me it looks like you are substituting UCP with something else which might or might not be UCP. I like the idea of making experiments but as it is there is no reason to experiment with UCP because it is already as basic as can be. If one dislikes the wordings Where and keeps connecting that word only with places in the physical universe then one could try something else. As long as the seeker keeps looking and comparing then I'm calm. > > Whatever the attention is on it is on and that is what the seeker > can look > > at. > > I think the troubles come not from what the seeker is looking AT but > what he/she is looking THROUGH, WITH or FROM. By hook or by crook we > would like to get him to examine these points as well. In this case > the person is already looking at the world in terms of *negation*, > trying to prove to him/herself that he is NOT like this. He is being > a not-murderer, a not-lousy mother, a not-junkie etc. There are not > only compulsive beingnesses, but compulsive not-beingnesses as well. I take it that you by we and him mean you?! If you think that you need to look at what you are not then look. Look at whatever you need to look at and then compare to where you are now or is that where you aren't now? > This is similar to the repair question "Have you ever felt like > that?" . We just parallel what the person is already doing, make it > explicit. By the way, asking "Have you ever felt *unlike* that?" > works just as well. > > > > > Eventually the seeker will get to the point where she can look at > being a > > junkie or lousy mother or whatever. > > Perhaps. I stumbled on the approach while doing normal UCP. > At that moment it became quite clear that people are not-being just > as frequently as being. For a while I even though that not-being is > even more fundamental than being, but now I think it's the same breed > of a cat. My guess is that below death the seeker/person will think that he is not-being. The deeper the more the person will think that he is not-being. Above death the person is being more and more the higher up the scale he will come. And there he will know that he is being > > > > I understand your intentions to have the seeker look at "hot" areas > but > > the seeker will have her own gradient. As witnesses we don't have > to worry > > about that. If we just ask the questions the seeker will run, sorry > about > > that word, herself. That's why Neal said that is almost a no > brainer. > > I don not know whether asking for the positive side only (that is he > classic UCP) will eventually give the same results as > positive+negative. > > I don't think negative+positive can be *worse* than positive-only, > and if there's a potential improvement to be had, then I belive this > is worth investigating. Oh, yes! You will be doomed... DOOMED I tell ye. 80) Just kidding.... couldn't resist. You don't have to pose the negative question; you just look if you need to look. You don't have to refrase commands so that you remember to look at not-beingness. You just look if you feel that's where your attentions is. 80) > > > > > So, ok, I say. What is it that cannot happen? (not necessarily in > > > these words, it's the concept which is important) > > > > > > "Oh, I cannot ever be a mafia boss" > > > > > > Hah! *Now* they are looking! Yes, it's a trick of sorts. So what? > Got > > > them (or myself) looking and comparing, that's the goal. > > > > Where might you be? I might be a mafia boss! > > Except that's one thing he is sure he will NEVER be. Zero chance. Not > even hypothetically. He'd rather be shot. Anything one is valiantly > fighting/opposing falls under that category. If he is sure he never will be then what? Then he is sure! What of it? Either way he is looking at being a mafia boss and comparing which is what really counts. > So the closest thing I expect to come up with "Where you might be?" > would be "Fighting mafia", "Dealing with mafia", "Working for police" > and so forth. Well, I disagree. And I can't even see your point. Sorry 80( > But of course I only have my own experience to go by, so your mileage > may vary. > > > > > I don't really see why you want to put in the negative command. As > you see > > the "trick" works just fine with the "formal" commands. 80) > > I never said NOT to use normal commands :) > If they work well for you - fine! I know. We use what works 80) > > > > The seeker will not be able to look at it until the attention goes > to it > > anyways. Your variation will not trick any seeker to do that. The > formal > > questions will do the job anyways. > > That I am not convinced about. The stuf that has been coming up on > the "not" question had very different flavour from anything I have > encountered on the positive question. I believe there is a *chance* > that it covers more ground. And if that's so then I have nothing to > lose and everything to win by trying it out. I just have to say that you should keep up reporting about your progress. Perhaps you are on to something. Perhaps not. Let's see 80) > > > > If you can see improvement and it works for you then go ahead. This > > has always been true for UCPeons. > > The lack of KSW has certain advantages, that's for sure :) > > I am genuinely surprised at how much resistance a simple take-it-or- > leave-it suggestion can generate. Perhaps I should charge money for > suggestions then at least there would be a good reason for fighting > them :) > > Best, > Oleg > Best Wishes, Alexander K. ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1024-1022869823-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 18:30:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VIUZ816299 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 18:30:35 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1024-1022869823-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 18:30:23 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 18:30:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 2880 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 18:30:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 18:30:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 18:30:21 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4VIUDh26904; Fri, 31 May 2002 18:30:13 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CF7683B.627FBA55@directus.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:30:13 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 261 On Fri, 31 May 2002, judy wrote: > Hello, > > How nice to hear from we. I am doing pretty good with only a mild > reoccurrence of some symptoms such as food not having much taste and > some mild discomfort with swallowing. This surprises me that this has > come back and makes me question whether there is some psychological > stuff going on. As a rule I can spot that. > > I just can never understand the defensive/attack method of KP. That is > surely not a model I wish to imitate. > > Judy Hi, Judy, We are in the position of making a world and then forgetting how we did it. My own experience has been that it is impossible to understand (duplicate) communications originating from a higher order of intelligence, or a higher spiritual plane. The realization of this has tempered my native belief that it is possible to learn from anyone. I say "tempered" because this is not an absolute. One does catch hints, here and there. . . As for "imitation," it is a valuable capacity. That is how we learned to talk and write and do arithmetic. But we have to realize its limits. It can become a substitute for thought, judgment and ethics. Best, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1025-1022870415-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 18:40:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VIeE826867 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 18:40:14 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1025-1022870415-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 18:40:16 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 18:40:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 10875 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 18:40:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 18:40:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 18:40:15 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.207]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01701 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 13:40:12 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020531113610.108a5dc8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020530134738.108a8a98@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:36:10 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 262 Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Posted to: emailist: "UCP-list" newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology Oleg wrote: >> >I tell you what, >> > >> >Instead of playing "broken phone" here, >> >I'll ask the question to the man himself. KP: >> I don't know what question that is. >> >> Your phone is not broken. >> >> You are NOT listening. >> >I'll let you know what he says, if you wish. >> WHY DON'T YOU *READ* HIS BOOKS? Oleg: >Because they are hard to obtain if you happen NOT to live in US. HOW hard have you tried to get them? A CD can be rapidly mailed almost anywhere. I'm very sure that if you had put as much effort into getting a copy of his book as you have into FIGURE-FIGURING what his theory MIGHT be, . . . YOU WOULD ALREADY *HAVE* A COPY! >> ISN'T THAT THE *OBVIOUS* GAMBIT? >Not for everyone. >Best, >Oleg ONLY for people who want to know WHAT his theory is, and discuss IT, rather than their THEORY about his. Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1026-1022870647-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 18:44:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VIi5800920 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 18:44:05 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1026-1022870647-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 18:44:08 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 18:44:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 30195 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 18:44:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 18:44:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 18:44:06 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.207]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA02364 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 13:44:04 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020531114042.107c3b98@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020530142019.10893720@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:40:42 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 263 Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology Net Prophet wrote: >> IF Rado writes back at all. Oleg: >One can always hope. Sure! And maybe he WILL reply. Why don't you write him and ask what is the FASTEST way to get his books? >> Oleg: >> >We'll see. >> >Most theoreticians I have encountered LOVE to discuss their >theories. >> > >> >Best, >> >Oleg >> >> >> YES! >> >> WITH THOSE WHO HAVE >> ACTUALLY *READ* THEM! > >I actually did read what he wrote on his website. That's GOOD! And I *DO* appreciate that. But you ARE about 900 pages shy of understanding his theory. >That is what I am going to ask about. >I am not going to ask him about what is in his >books. OK! Those articles are probably there to get you interested enough to buy and read his books. >> And have sane questions! >> >> NOT WITH IDIOTS WHO THINK >> THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT >> HIS THEORY AND PHYSICS >> THAN HE DOES, WITHOUT >> EVER READING HIS THEORY! >Geez. If I ever need an ego boost, I can always count on you. I don't consider your ego on this! . . . I just call them as I see them. Glad you appreciate the service! :-) >> Most theoreticians you have >> encountered are NOT RADO. >All of them. >> Why not just break down and >> FIND OUT what his theory is? >By the way, do YOU thoroughly understand it? I understand the basics of it. I can follow most of the math as he works through it, but I could *NOT* generate it, and I do NOT understand many of the implications or fine points. >If no, then how can you judge whether it is good or not? I READ IT! I can't refute any of it. You are welcome to try. >You seem to be subscribing to his theory, so you >must have made the choice based on something, no? YES! READING HIS BOOKS! >If you do understand it, then why do you have to always refer me to >his books? Because I cannot explain his theory nearly as well as he can! I don't understand it nearly as well as he does! Why should I have to keep telling you what you refuse to read for yourself? In two or three paragraphs, why don't you just tell me what the bible says, so I don't have to wade thru it? >I can (at least attempt to) explain you my understanding >of physics without referring you to any books. "What do your >materials state?" is not a very good way to promote understanding, >as CofS practice shows. It's MUCH better than criticizing the materials BEFORE reading them! >So, Who is holding a discussion here? Me and You or Me and You on >Rado's behalf? Personally, I was talking to *you*, KP. I was talking to you. >However, If you are only discussing physics on Rado's behalf >then I think the extra via is completely unwarranted. > >Best, >Oleg I was discussing it on your behalf, with remarkably little success, as so far you have not *READ* the theory. THAT has been my basic obejctive. Which so far has failed miserably! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1027-1022870744-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 18:45:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.92]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VIjg802413 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 18:45:42 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1027-1022870744-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 18:45:44 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 18:45:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 95709 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 18:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 18:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 18:45:44 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.207]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA02716 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 13:45:41 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020531114220.108dbb98@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20020530.184854.-179947.0.bobbukovac@juno.com> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 11:42:20 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] attunement; definition (?) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 264 Bob Bukovac: >Can't find "attunement", nor "atunement" at dictionary.com. Found >atonement, but it seems highly unlikely that it is what was intended for >that entry on the chart. KP: can you provide a definition? > >B Tuning up! Websters: ATTUNE: VT. [AD + TUNE] 1. to tune 2. to bring into harmony or agreement KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1028-1022872354-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 19:12:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VJCWC28346 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 19:12:33 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1028-1022872354-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 19:12:35 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 19:12:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 74717 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 19:12:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 19:12:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.81) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 19:12:33 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.165] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 19:12:33 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020531114042.107c3b98@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:12:32 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 265 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > In two or three paragraphs, > why don't you just tell me > what the bible says, so I > don't have to wade thru it? Believing in God is good. Not believing in God is bad. Good will be rewarded, bad will be punished. There's some disagreement about details. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1029-1022872956-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 19:22:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.77]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VJMYC07455 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 19:22:34 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1029-1022872956-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 19:22:36 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 19:22:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 85150 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 19:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 19:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.76) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 19:22:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.137] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 19:22:36 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 19:22:35 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 266 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Fri, 31 May 2002, judy wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > How nice to hear from we. I am doing pretty good with only a mild > > reoccurrence of some symptoms such as food not having much taste and > > some mild discomfort with swallowing. This surprises me that this has > > come back and makes me question whether there is some psychological > > stuff going on. As a rule I can spot that. > > > > I just can never understand the defensive/attack method of KP. That is > > surely not a model I wish to imitate. > > > > Judy > > Hi, Judy, > > We are in the position of making a world and then forgetting how we did > it. > > My own experience has been that it is impossible to understand > (duplicate) communications originating from a higher order of > intelligence, or a higher spiritual plane. I doesn't have to be necessarily higher, just different. It's hard to appreciate what's going on in a mind of some Papua native, or in a mind of someone tripping on acid, or in a mind of a person you disdain. > The realization of this has tempered my native belief that it is > possible to learn from anyone. At the very least you learn there are people like that :) Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1030-1022873143-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 19:25:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VJPfC11011 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 19:25:41 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1030-1022873143-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 19:25:44 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 19:25:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 89735 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 19:25:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 19:25:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 19:25:43 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.207]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13003 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 14:25:39 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020531122217.108dbb98@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:22:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 267 Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology Alexander Kxpke wrote: >> I disagree here. You don't need to decide what the seeker has to >look at. Oleg: >Even when the seeker and the witness are the same person? :) JUST LOOK! Alex: >> Whatever the attention is on it is on and that is what the seeker >>can look at. Oleg: >I think the troubles come not from what the seeker is looking >AT but what he/she is looking THROUGH, WITH or FROM. Which also determine what he looks AT, through the DECISIONS he makes about WHAT IS PROPERLY FIT TO LOOK AT. >By hook or by crook we would like to get him to examine these points as well. We do NOT need hooks OR crooks. Ordinary UCP does that just fine! >In this case >the person is already looking at the world in terms of *negation*, >trying to prove to him/herself that he is NOT like this. He is being >a not-murderer, a not-lousy mother, a not-junkie etc. There are not >only compulsive beingnesses, but compulsive not-beingnesses as well. You must be talking about yourself. In any case, compulsively being a winner makes you compulsively being a not-loser. If you feel compelled to call a winner a not-loser, TAKE A LOOK AT THAT! >This is similar to the repair question "Have you ever felt like that?" >We just parallel what the person is already doing, make it explicit. But you are only PROJECTING what you THINK "the person" is doing. >By the way, asking "Have you ever felt *unlike* that?" >works just as well. How many people have tested it how long? >> Eventually the seeker will get to the point where she can look at >>being a junkie or lousy mother or whatever. >Perhaps. I stumbled on the approach while doing normal UCP. >At that moment it became quite clear that people are not-being just >as frequently as being. So NORMAL UCP worked perfectly well for you to have this NEW PERCEPTION! WHY did you decide you needed to CHANGE it? >For a while I even though that not-being is >even more fundamental than being, but now >I think it's the same breed of a cat. It's the same or a similar breed of hypnOThetical cat. >> I understand your intentions to have the seeker look at "hot" areas >but >> the seeker will have her own gradient. As witnesses we don't have >to worry >> about that. If we just ask the questions the seeker will run, sorry >about >> that word, herself. That's why Neal said that is almost a no >brainer. >I don not know whether asking for the positive side only (that is he >classic UCP) will eventually give the same results as >positive+negative. You misunderstand ordinary UCP. >I don't think negative+positive can be *worse* than positive-only, >and if there's a potential improvement to be had, then I belive this >is worth investigating. I don't see that your compulsive figure-figure on the exact wording of questions that are only rough pointers to a general direction is relevant. >> > So, ok, I say. What is it that cannot happen? (not necessarily in >> > these words, it's the concept which is important) >> > >> > "Oh, I cannot ever be a mafia boss" >> > >> > Hah! *Now* they are looking! Yes, it's a trick of sorts. So what? >Got >> > them (or myself) looking and comparing, that's the goal. >> Where might you be? I might be a mafia boss! >Except that's one thing he is sure he will NEVER be. Zero chance. Not >even hypothetically. He'd rather be shot. Anything one is valiantly >fighting/opposing falls under that category. RONSENSE! He might be a mafia boss in his next lifetime. Or he might marry into a family. Or they might take over his business. Or he might be recruited. Many people who never imagined they would be mafia bosses have wound up being exactly that! Whenever he watches "The Godfather" he IS a mafia boss . . . at least in his own imagination1 Or he might simply have contact with the victim of a mafia boss, and have his attention on them. YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND NORMAL UCP! REREAD N-LIGHTENMENT NOW! YOU *MISSED* A KEY POINT. If his attention is on being a mafia boss, then he is ready to look at it. >So the closest thing I expect to come up with "Where you might be?" >would be "Fighting mafia", "Dealing with mafia", "Working for police" >and so forth. BUT *YOUR EXPECTATIONS* ARE BASED ON YOUR FIGURE-FIGURE AND NOT ON HOW UCP *WORKS!* >But of course I only have my own experience to go by, so your mileage >may vary. My mileasge varies consderably! >> I don't really see why you want to put in the negative command. As >you see >> the "trick" works just fine with the "formal" commands. 80) >I never said NOT to use normal commands :) >If they work well for you - fine! Yes. I understand that. >> The seeker will not be able to look at it until the attention goes >to it >> anyways. Your variation will not trick any seeker to do that. The >formal >> questions will do the job anyways. >That I am not convinced about. The stuf that has been coming up on >the "not" question had very different flavour from anything I have >encountered on the positive question. But I find that frequently happens with normal UCP too! >I believe there is a *chance* that it covers more ground. So far, I don't see any evidence for that idea. >And if that's so then I have nothing to >lose and everything to win by trying it out. Go right ahead and experiment! Keep us posted on your results. > >> If you can see improvement and it works for you then go >>ahead. This has always been true for UCPeons. >The lack of KSW has certain advantages, that's for sure :) Yes! PLUS a mandate to compare everything! >I am genuinely surprised at how much resistance a >simple take-it-or- leave-it suggestion can generate. Because your suggestion is based on a MISUNDERSTANDING OF BASIC UCP, which you are attempting to TEACH here. UCPeons are attempting to help you sort this out. >Perhaps I should charge money for suggestions then at >least there would be a good reason for fighting them :) > >Best, >Oleg Suggestions on how to "improve" UCP, based on misunderstandings of it, are so common there is NO market value. We already have an endless supply of them . . . from people who have never done UCP! You simply can't compete with them, because you have ACTUALLY DONE UCP, and gotten real gains already. Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1031-1022873388-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 19:29:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.67]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VJTjC14991 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 19:29:45 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1031-1022873388-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 19:29:48 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 19:29:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 1103 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 19:29:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 19:29:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 19:29:46 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.207]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13877 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 14:29:44 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020531122622.107cbd18@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CF7683B.627FBA55@directus.net> References: <20020531001542.31897.qmail@web10705.mail.yahoo.com> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:26:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 268 Judy writes: >Hello, > >How nice to hear from you. I am doing pretty good with only a mild >reoccurrence of some symptoms such as food not having much taste and >some mild discomfort with swallowing. This surprises me that this has >come back and makes me question whether there is some psychological >stuff going on. As a rule I can spot that. OK. Thanks for the report! >I just can never understand the defensive/attack method of KP. OK! Maybe some day . . . or not. >That is surely not a model I wish to imitate. > >Judy Wonderful! I'm not looking for imitators. Feel free to disagree! You'll hear from me. With what I see. As it should be! KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1032-1022873889-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 19:38:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VJc7C23119 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 19:38:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1032-1022873889-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 19:38:10 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 19:38:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 45401 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 19:38:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 19:38:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 19:38:08 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.207]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA16182 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 14:38:06 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020531123323.107ccca8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020531114042.107c3b98@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 12:33:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 269 KP to Oleg: >> In two or three paragraphs, >> why don't you just tell me >> what the bible says, so I >> don't have to wade thru it? Oleg: >Believing in God is good. Not believing in God is bad. Good will be >rewarded, bad will be punished. There's some disagreement about >details. > >Best, >Oleg Excellent! I also heard some rumor that god is in those details. But of course, I haven't read the whole bible, just a few books here and there, so *I DON'T REALLY KNOW* if your summary is accurate. Best Wishes, KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1033-1022874139-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 19:42:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VJgHC27179 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 19:42:17 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1033-1022874139-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 19:42:19 -0000 X-Sender: SNussle410@aol.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 19:42:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 22404 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 19:42:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 19:42:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO imo-m08.mx.aol.com) (64.12.136.163) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 19:42:17 -0000 Received: from SNussle410@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id r.16f.e6aafa2 (17378) for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 15:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <16f.e6aafa2.2a292c14@aol.com> To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 10512 From: SNussle410@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:42:12 EDT Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 270 What are you people smoking? Send me some, ok? lol [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1034-1022878764-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 20:59:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VKxMt14510 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 20:59:22 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1034-1022878764-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 20:59:24 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 20:59:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 42848 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 20:59:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 20:59:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 20:59:21 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.201] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A427495B005A; Fri, 31 May 2002 16:59:19 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF7E425.E928285A@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <20020531001542.31897.qmail@web10705.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20020531122622.107cbd18@net-prophet.net> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:59:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 271 Well, KP, first of all I didn't realize I was writing on the public forum here. I make mistakes like that. When I realized that it was on the forum here, I thought oh my, KP is bound to light into me as he is famous for doing. What a pleasant surprise to receive words from you that did not give me the feeling that I was being belittled. Many thanks. "That is surely not a model I wish to imitate. > Judy Wonderful! I'm not looking for imitators. Feel free to disagree! You'll hear from me. With what I see. As it should be!" Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1035-1022879828-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 21:17:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VLH8i03504 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 21:17:08 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1035-1022879828-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 21:17:08 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 21:17:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 31449 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 21:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 21:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 21:17:05 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4VLGvb03055; Fri, 31 May 2002 21:16:57 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <16f.e6aafa2.2a292c14@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:16:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 272 On Fri, 31 May 2002 SNussle410@aol.com wrote: > What are you people smoking? Why, us folks be smokin' Lightnin' Weed! Send me some, ok? lol Y'all hef ta come n git it! abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1036-1022880752-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 21:32:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VLWTi20435 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 21:32:30 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1036-1022880752-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 21:32:32 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 21:32:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 10540 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 21:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 21:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 21:32:29 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.207]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA06033 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 16:32:27 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020531142904.00e98568@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CF7E425.E928285A@directus.net> References: <20020531001542.31897.qmail@web10705.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20020531122622.107cbd18@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:29:04 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 273 Judy wrote: >Well, KP, first of all I didn't realize I was writing on the public >forum here. I make mistakes like that. Not a problem! I too make too many mistakes. >When I realized that it was on the forum here, I thought oh >my, KP is bound to light into me as he is famous for doing. What I am REPUTED to be famous for MAY NOT be what I actually AM. >What a pleasant surprise to receive words from you that did not >give me the feeling that I was being belittled. Many thanks. You're welcome! I was not belittling you. When you really don't care what I think of you one way or another, you can look back and compare to where you are now, and you'll be a UCPeon then. Most of the UCPeons don't care much what I think, although what they think about my opinions might be important. Best Wishes, KP =================================== >>"That is surely not a model I wish to imitate. >> >>Judy KP: >Wonderful! > >I'm not looking for imitators. > >Feel free to disagree! > >You'll hear from me. > >With what I see. > >As it should be!" > >Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1037-1022882049-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 21:54:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VLs8i12764 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 21:54:08 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1037-1022882049-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 21:54:09 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 21:54:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 74316 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 21:54:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 21:54:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 21:54:08 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g4VLrx908708; Fri, 31 May 2002 21:53:59 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 21:53:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 274 On Fri, 31 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > On Fri, 31 May 2002, judy wrote: > > > I just can never understand the defensive/attack method of KP. > That is > > > surely not a model I wish to imitate. > > > > > > Judy > > > > Hi, Judy, > > > > We are in the position of making a world and then forgetting how we > did > > it. > > > > My own experience has been that it is impossible to understand > > (duplicate) communications originating from a higher order of > > intelligence, or a higher spiritual plane. > > I doesn't have to be necessarily higher, just different. It's hard > to appreciate what's going on in a mind of some Papua native, or in a > mind of someone tripping on acid, or in a mind of a person you > disdain. Gosh, Oleg, you picked some really *bad* examples: Not, Papua, but Borneo, I visited with headhunters in the way way back country. Warm-heated and gracious hosts. After dinner they pulled down a bundle of skulls from the smoke hole. One enacted his hunt of Japanese soldier whose skull he now caressed. And so it went. . .I was interested in every detail. I learned lots from them. No problem. To understand mind of an acid-tripper just take some acid yersef. That one is a no-brainer. Someone I disdain? Well I was in jail once. Civil disobedience, contempt of court variety. Most of the other guys were street hoodlums - petty criminals charged with theft, burglary, auto theft, etc. - although one was charged with felony kidnapping. While ordinarily I might disdain such folk, it did not seem pro-survival to do so under the circumstances of enforced association. Most of them could not read or write, so I read letters from family and lawyers to them and wrote replies if they wanted. There were about a dozen of us and only four bunks, the rest slept on the floor with a TV blasting. I would turn it down, and someone else would turn it up. It was a double cell, and the bunks were behind the cell wall division, away from the TV. When a bunk became available they offered it to me, even though any of them could have claimed it based on seniority. > > The realization of this has tempered my native belief that it is > > possible to learn from anyone. > > At the very least you learn there are people like that :) At the most you can crawl inside their minds. ;) > Best, > Oleg Best, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1038-1022884018-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 22:26:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VMQuV12715 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 22:26:56 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1038-1022884018-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 22:26:58 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 22:26:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 72379 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 22:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 22:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 22:26:57 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.201] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A8AE57F10024; Fri, 31 May 2002 18:26:54 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF7F8AC.6A58E1A6@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <20020531001542.31897.qmail@web10705.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.6.32.20020531122622.107cbd18@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020531142904.00e98568@net-prophet.net> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 18:26:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 275 Hi KP, You wrote "When you really don't care what I think of you one way or another, you can look back and compare to where you are now, and you'll be a UCPeon then." When I reach that point, count on a large, cosmic, cyber hug! Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/DlIU9C/4m7CAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1039-1022884314-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 22:31:52 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VMVpV16640 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 22:31:51 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1039-1022884314-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 22:31:54 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 22:31:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 26489 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 22:31:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 22:31:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 22:31:51 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.150] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 22:31:51 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 22:31:48 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 276 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > Gosh, Oleg, you picked some really *bad* examples: > ..other bad examples snipped > > To understand mind of an acid-tripper just take some acid yersef. That > one is a no-brainer. I meant while staying sober :) best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1040-1022884834-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri May 31 22:40:33 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.90]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4VMeWV23828 for ; Fri, 31 May 2002 22:40:32 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1040-1022884834-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 22:40:34 -0000 X-Sender: esjwilds@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 31 May 2002 22:40:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 53212 invoked from network); 31 May 2002 22:40:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 31 May 2002 22:40:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 May 2002 22:40:34 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.182] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 31 May 2002 22:40:34 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "esjwilds" X-Originating-IP: 203.130.205.227 X-Yahoo-Profile: esjwilds MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 22:40:30 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] UCP (Esther) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 277 Hello there, Where am I now? I am new to this list and I am new to the idea of UCP having just come across 'it' on the internet for the first time about 3 days ago. I am writing here as a result of reading about UCP and I am intending to *DO UCP*. I am hoping that what I write will be considered as fitting for this list. I am imagining that some readers might consider this post as inappropriate. Perhaps this is not the best place for this to go- any other suggestions let me know. Where could I be? In a place where I recieve communication and feedback from people who have the same intention as me. I am aware of holding an intention which appears to ME (Esther) to be of fundamental importance. This intention is to know *Who* I (insert personal name) am. This is also defined by me as *What* I (insert personal name) am CURRENTLY experiencing. Compare I currently feel that I am doing this on my own. I feel that it would be helpful to get feedback from people who I truly believe hold the same intention as me. I believe being in the *future* scene would help me in my aim to be aware of my intention at all times. AT the moment there are times when I am aware of having let go of my intention. In the *future* scene the times when I let go of my intention are fewer and further between. In the *future* scene I consistently remember that it is precisely those situations in which I feel most uncomfortable that I have the MOST to gain. I believe I currently lapse into believing that I have something to fear from the way external reality IS affecting me and that there is something I have to avoid, to escape from. Where have I been? Felt like that before? Yes. Last night X invites me to go to a salon with him. I want to go to the salon but I feel uncomfortable about going on my own just him and me. I think I have to escape from his invitation. I think I already know his intention. I believe that X wants to have a relationship with me. I say no to going to the salon because I believe that it is necessary for me to avoid him. I don't want to find out whether or not he really wants a relationship with me. I imagine that I know his intention but actually he has not made it clear to me and I want to avoid finding out the answer for sure. I think that he can affect my current decision to be in a relationship with Y. I believe that X wants to make me have a relationship with him. I believe if I was in a relationship with X then I could not at the same time be in a relationship with Y. I believe I want to be in a relationship with Y. I believe that I have to fear X because he wants something which I believe I don't. And Now? I believe that I was avoiding the possibility of experiencing X telling me that he wants to have a relationship with me. Small reminder- I believe those experiences which come to me unbidden, and that I did not expect or ask for are those experiences which hold the greatest benefit for refining my intention. Unexpected experiences which cause discomfort allow me to forget my intention and become unaware. Once I remember my intention I am aware of the places where my intention cracks(as above), and I can work on it. Where could you be? I could be in a place where I am open to experiencing X telling me that he wants to have a relationship with me. Compare In the *future* place I am open to hearing what he has to say. I am not afraid to hear his point of view. Now, I believe that he may have the ability to make me change my mind when that might not be what I REALLY want! In the present moment I believe that I may not be in control of making my own choice. In the present moment I feel I don't have the freedom to say what I am REALLY thinking- ie if my thought is 'I don't want a relationship with you' I imagine that it will be difficult to say that to him. I imagine being forced into a certain course of action because I can't say what I am really thinking. Past? When I first met Y I was annoyed by the fact that he wanted to spend time talking to me because I thought I didn't want to spend time talking to him but that I couldn't say no because it would be rude. I felt that I was forced to talk to him because I couldn't say what I was really thinking 'You are bothering me, and I am not interested in spending time listening to you talking' But then he offered me the choice. After the first 5 minutes of trying to chat with me (we were on a 4 hour bus journey)he said to me- "Is it ok if i sit next to you and talk with you? If you have a problem with that just tell me- ok!" I truly believed that he wanted me to tell him my reaction just as it was. I was disarmed by the fact that he seemed to be open to the possibility of rejection. He seemed to be more concerned about knowing the truth of of my feelings than the chance that his desire to talk with me might be rejected. Because of that I felt that I was completely free to decide whether I wanted to talk with him or not. I considered saying that I didn't want to, but then found out that I was rather curious to know what he was like, and what would happen if I did talk to him. I thought that if at any moment I had had enough then I would be comfortable in telling him that i wanted to stop talking and rest. This is the one quality that I hold above others in my relationship with Y. I feel that he is always demanding the truth from me about my feelings, and when I am around him I feel that his questions help me clarify things. Now? This has come to the point of integration. It seems to me now that this has helped me to define the quality that I hold to be the most important in my interaction with others. In a strange way (who said progress was linear) it has made it clear to me that I wish to have contact with others who want to know it As It Really Is, and who I believe want me to say what I really think, what I really feel, and are not afraid to to the same back. What I want is the truth- how is it really? My desire is to communicate with others who are concerned with being aware of what is truly being experienced. I desire communication with those who state that as their primary intention above all others. I desire dialogue with those who aim to know the reality of what they are experiencing- whatever that might be, and who are not afraid to then say that out loud. I want to experience as much honest communication as is humanly possible! That involves both parties having the ability to be aware and willingness to express that outwardly. So............four hours later and that's my first UCP session proper. I have been doing a lot of work on myself over the last two months after curing myself of the belief that the answers to MY questions are outside myself. I was always looking for a Guru to tell me the answers but then I got sick of the disappointment I always felt when the chosen guru/method let me down. It seems I'm just not capable of handing over total resposibility to another person. At the end of the day I will ONLY believe it's true if it is true for me, not just because someone else tells me that it is true. I realised I was intruiged by the idea that experience is affected by beliefs and that I could change my experience by changing my belief. I realised that I could do an experiment and find out if that statement held true for myself. I amazed myself very early on by discovering that it was possible for me to have a new experience of a person who I had always found intensely annoying. I had said to myself, well, I could never ever imagine myself feeling differently about HER so surely here is a good test. What was interesting was that I found out that I had been completely unaware of why I continually experienced annoyance while I was around her. I thought it was HER who was annoying but it was the stuff she sparked off in me. I found out that it was indeed possible to have a completely different experience and that was quite awesome. She is now one of my closest friends! Anyhow, another side effect was that everyone around me was in denial when seemingly overnight I changed my opinion of her. They just couldn't believe it. We had always bitched about her, and yet now I just didn't have the impetus to bitch about her any more. I didn't care that they wanted to, I knew I felt the same in the past but now I had a new feeling about her. So having done a lot of work on my own I'm feeling around to see who is out there and what you think..... I have gained a lot by discovering that I am capable of holding what might seem to be contradictory beliefs at different times, and yet each belief feels to me to be completely true at the time that i am holding it. My experience of the world changes when I really think that it is possible for that belief to be true. I even thought that I might be insane at one point but I just let it happen- quite scary but I came through the other side, and I'm quite glad to have faced that question. I know for certain that I am not fixed, I am infinitely changable. I do not desire security from a fixed point, I desire security in being able to be what I am in each and every moment. I am interested to see what UCP sheds on my intention because it is looking at things from a slightly different angle. I like the idea of doing it with a real witness because it takes away the responsibility from me for having to remain aware at all times that there is awareness seperate to that specific thing being experienced. I currently believe that the 'discharge' from past experience and habit would necessarily be stronger the more completely and fully I am able to BE that experience and yet still be pulled out of it. I believe doing UCP with a witness would allow me to experience a new reaction to an old experience even when I got caught up in being the experience. I guess part of me longs to let go, but wants to know that I'll be safe if I do that- my awareness will return. Well, might be a bit tricky while I'm in Java but still. The internet is a good place to start. Thank you for your attention. I look forward to getting some thoughts in return. (another 20 hours & I've done the 24hr challenge) ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1041-1022901705-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 03:21:43 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g513Lgf00948 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 03:21:42 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1041-1022901705-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 03:21:45 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 03:21:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 46858 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 03:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 03:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 03:21:42 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g513LY013317; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 03:21:34 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 03:21:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 278 On Fri, 31 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > To understand mind of an acid-tripper just take some acid yersef. > > That one is a no-brainer. > > I meant while staying sober :) You might want to take a look at that ;) Ever felt like that before? ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1042-1022914982-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 07:03:01 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g5172xo15757 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 07:02:59 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1042-1022914982-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 07:03:02 -0000 X-Sender: alex-san@mtu-net.ru X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 07:03:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 73952 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 07:03:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 07:03:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO alex) (62.118.136.225) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 07:02:59 -0000 X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.60) Organization: http://thetan.ru X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <73468757.20020601110351@mtu-net.ru> To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Alex X-Yahoo-Profile: alex14san MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 11:03:51 +0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: F X-Keywords: X-UID: 279 Hello, Oleg! pr> What I was getting at is that there are very hot areas in human minds pr> (not referring to anyone in particular) which they avoid looking at pr> because they think they NEVER can be there. "Me, killing cute pr> kittens?! Nonsense!" "Becoming a junkie? Absurd! Can't happen!" pr> (a little puff of smoke coming out their ears) pr> If you plainly ask them "where you might be?" or "where have you pr> been?" they would *never ever* touch that area. Because they decided pr> it can never happen to them, in the past or in the future! Even if it pr> actually did happen (which is likely) then they have denied any pr> responsibility for it. So you are just going straight against their pr> determination *not* to deal with the subject. pr> So, ok, I say. What is it that cannot happen? (not necessarily in pr> these words, it's the concept which is important) pr> "Oh, I cannot ever be a mafia boss" pr> Hah! *Now* they are looking! Yes, it's a trick of sorts. So what? Got pr> them (or myself) looking and comparing, that's the goal. That is where they are now - CANNOT LOOK AT SOME AREAS or VIEWPOINTS :-) or it is where YOU are? :) OK, the great effect of UCP is that can get you out of any fixed idea, viewpoint, whatever just by keeping doing UCP. You look at one viewpoint, another, compare, look, mock-up, compare, and do on and and so on... And after some time you get "oh! i *AM* looking and comparing, that's where I am now!" or "oh! I am in that fixed idea I can't look at something", or any other realisation about where you are unknowingly. And that's the major UCP ability, and the seeker should use and improve that ability - to get looking at himself, at where he's really now. "I am doing a UCP session", for example if you'll give him evaluations or alter the process for him, or just shall tell him "you are now in this and that", you'll invalidate his ability, you'll do that FOR him, instead of him, but your task as a witness is to learn him to look exactly where he is now. If you'll just keep doing UCP, he'll do that by himself, and sooner or later he'll learn how to do that. If you'll do that for him each time... he'll not :( >> I disagree here. You don't need to decide >> what the seeker has to look at. pr> Even when the seeker and the witness are the same person? :) Especially in that case! Just take what is your attention is on, do not THINK instead of it. Do no substitute looking with thinking/deciding. >> Whatever the attention is on it is on >> and that is what the seeker can look at. pr> I think the troubles come not from what the seeker is looking AT but pr> what he/she is looking THROUGH, WITH or FROM. By hook or by crook we pr> would like to get him to examine these points as well. In this case pr> the person is already looking at the world in terms of *negation*, pr> trying to prove to him/herself that he is NOT like this. He is being pr> a not-murderer, a not-lousy mother, a not-junkie etc. There are not pr> only compulsive beingnesses, but compulsive not-beingnesses as well. Yes, you've got the idea! The task is to let him learn how to get out from this viewpoints by himself, not by your evaluations, process altering, whatever else. Just do the process, and he'll do that sooner or later. As a witness, you surely can sometimes SEE where he is now before HE does that, but do not prevent him from looking by telling him something, process altering, etc. pr> I don not know whether asking for the positive side only (that is he pr> classic UCP) will eventually give the same results as pr> positive+negative. pr> I don't think negative+positive can be *worse* than positive-only, pr> and if there's a potential improvement to be had, then I belive this pr> is worth investigating. Your ideas about "giving him more" seems to miss that idea, of seeker getting himself out from some viewpoints by comparing similar viewpoints, that just come into session, and he see no connection between them, and after some time he goes to the viewpoint, that unites them, and where he WAS before session, maybe for many many years, and that was crushing his life... You THINK that make him looking at cats murdering will give him more, I say that letting him do the process to realize the viewpoint he is now will give him much more, and your alterings to UCP just distracts his attention from this main task into some probably unnecessary things... Your "negative improvements" may distract him from digging into the viewpoint he's now by comparing other viewpoints into some maybe hot material that is not necessary for him to increase his tone level. Remember, UCP is neither dianetics nor scientology, the goal of UCP is not getting some hot areas of your bank or case, the goal is increasing his tone level! -- Alex, http://thetan.ru ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From ucpalex Sat Jun 1 07:37:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g517buc16162; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 07:37:56 GMT Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 07:37:56 +0000 (UTC) From: Alexander Kxpke To: Abba Noor Subject: Re: Hey, Alex! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 280 On Fri, 31 May 2002, Abba Noor wrote: > Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:52:11 +0000 (UTC) > From: Abba Noor > To: ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org > Subject: Hey, Alex! > > It looks like you are using your new account! Yup. It's great! Somehow I feel independent because I can access sdf.lonestar.org from whatever computer via telnet.exe or putty. Now I'm using putty which is great. I've also downloaded Lynx and wow it's fast. I thought I would be hooked on to the mouse forever but using Lynx and pine convinced me that they are much faster to use. Hurray for UNIX Best Wishes, Alexander K. 80) ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org From sentto-6247521-1043-1022918197-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 07:56:35 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g517uZ525138 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 07:56:35 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1043-1022918197-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 07:56:37 -0000 X-Sender: ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 07:56:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 81234 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 07:56:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 07:56:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 07:56:34 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g517uP114581; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 07:56:25 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <16f.e6aafa2.2a292c14@aol.com> Message-ID: From: Alexander Kxpke X-Yahoo-Profile: ucpalex MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 07:56:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 281 On Fri, 31 May 2002 SNussle410@aol.com wrote: > Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 15:42:12 EDT > From: SNussle410@aol.com > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [UCP-List] [NR]Notes on Rado's theory > > What are you people smoking? Send me some, ok? lol Ok! What your address? Best Wishes, Alexander K. ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1044-1022918371-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 07:59:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.89]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g517xS526911 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 07:59:28 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1044-1022918371-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 07:59:31 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 07:59:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 57495 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 07:59:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 07:59:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 07:59:30 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.217]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA05732 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 02:59:23 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020601005543.01161258@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 00:55:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP (Esther) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 282 From: "esjwilds" Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 22:40:30 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] UCP (Esther) [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology Hello there, Where am I now? I am new to this list and I am new to the idea of UCP having just come across 'it' on the internet for the first time about 3 days ago. I am writing here as a result of reading about UCP and I am intending to *DO UCP*. I am hoping that what I write will be considered as fitting for this list. I am imagining that some readers might consider this post as inappropriate. Perhaps this is not the best place for this to go- any other suggestions let me know. Where could I be? In a place where I recieve communication and feedback from people who have the same intention as me. I am aware of holding an intention which appears to ME (Esther) to be of fundamental importance. This intention is to know *Who* I (insert personal name) am. This is also defined by me as *What* I (insert personal name) am CURRENTLY experiencing. Compare I currently feel that I am doing this on my own. I feel that it would be helpful to get feedback from people who I truly believe hold the same intention as me. I believe being in the *future* scene would help me in my aim to be aware of my intention at all times. AT the moment there are times when I am aware of having let go of my intention. In the *future* scene the times when I let go of my intention are fewer and further between. In the *future* scene I consistently remember that it is precisely those situations in which I feel most uncomfortable that I have the MOST to gain. I believe I currently lapse into believing that I have something to fear from the way external reality IS affecting me and that there is something I have to avoid, to escape from. Where have I been? Felt like that before? Yes. Last night X invites me to go to a salon with him. I want to go to the salon but I feel uncomfortable about going on my own just him and me. I think I have to escape from his invitation. I think I already know his intention. I believe that X wants to have a relationship with me. I say no to going to the salon because I believe that it is necessary for me to avoid him. I don't want to find out whether or not he really wants a relationship with me. I imagine that I know his intention but actually he has not made it clear to me and I want to avoid finding out the answer for sure. I think that he can affect my current decision to be in a relationship with Y. I believe that X wants to make me have a relationship with him. I believe if I was in a relationship with X then I could not at the same time be in a relationship with Y. I believe I want to be in a relationship with Y. I believe that I have to fear X because he wants something which I believe I don't. And Now? I believe that I was avoiding the possibility of experiencing X telling me that he wants to have a relationship with me. Small reminder- I believe those experiences which come to me unbidden, and that I did not expect or ask for are those experiences which hold the greatest benefit for refining my intention. Unexpected experiences which cause discomfort allow me to forget my intention and become unaware. Once I remember my intention I am aware of the places where my intention cracks(as above), and I can work on it. Where could you be? I could be in a place where I am open to experiencing X telling me that he wants to have a relationship with me. Compare In the *future* place I am open to hearing what he has to say. I am not afraid to hear his point of view. Now, I believe that he may have the ability to make me change my mind when that might not be what I REALLY want! In the present moment I believe that I may not be in control of making my own choice. In the present moment I feel I don't have the freedom to say what I am REALLY thinking- ie if my thought is 'I don't want a relationship with you' I imagine that it will be difficult to say that to him. I imagine being forced into a certain course of action because I can't say what I am really thinking. Past? When I first met Y I was annoyed by the fact that he wanted to spend time talking to me because I thought I didn't want to spend time talking to him but that I couldn't say no because it would be rude. I felt that I was forced to talk to him because I couldn't say what I was really thinking 'You are bothering me, and I am not interested in spending time listening to you talking' But then he offered me the choice. After the first 5 minutes of trying to chat with me (we were on a 4 hour bus journey)he said to me- "Is it ok if i sit next to you and talk with you? If you have a problem with that just tell me- ok!" I truly believed that he wanted me to tell him my reaction just as it was. I was disarmed by the fact that he seemed to be open to the possibility of rejection. He seemed to be more concerned about knowing the truth of of my feelings than the chance that his desire to talk with me might be rejected. Because of that I felt that I was completely free to decide whether I wanted to talk with him or not. I considered saying that I didn't want to, but then found out that I was rather curious to know what he was like, and what would happen if I did talk to him. I thought that if at any moment I had had enough then I would be comfortable in telling him that i wanted to stop talking and rest. This is the one quality that I hold above others in my relationship with Y. I feel that he is always demanding the truth from me about my feelings, and when I am around him I feel that his questions help me clarify things. Now? This has come to the point of integration. It seems to me now that this has helped me to define the quality that I hold to be the most important in my interaction with others. In a strange way (who said progress was linear) it has made it clear to me that I wish to have contact with others who want to know it As It Really Is, and who I believe want me to say what I really think, what I really feel, and are not afraid to to the same back. What I want is the truth- how is it really? My desire is to communicate with others who are concerned with being aware of what is truly being experienced. I desire communication with those who state that as their primary intention above all others. I desire dialogue with those who aim to know the reality of what they are experiencing- whatever that might be, and who are not afraid to then say that out loud. I want to experience as much honest communication as is humanly possible! That involves both parties having the ability to be aware and willingness to express that outwardly. So............four hours later and that's my first UCP session proper. I have been doing a lot of work on myself over the last two months after curing myself of the belief that the answers to MY questions are outside myself. I was always looking for a Guru to tell me the answers but then I got sick of the disappointment I always felt when the chosen guru/method let me down. It seems I'm just not capable of handing over total resposibility to another person. At the end of the day I will ONLY believe it's true if it is true for me, not just because someone else tells me that it is true. I realised I was intruiged by the idea that experience is affected by beliefs and that I could change my experience by changing my belief. I realised that I could do an experiment and find out if that statement held true for myself. I amazed myself very early on by discovering that it was possible for me to have a new experience of a person who I had always found intensely annoying. I had said to myself, well, I could never ever imagine myself feeling differently about HER so surely here is a good test. What was interesting was that I found out that I had been completely unaware of why I continually experienced annoyance while I was around her. I thought it was HER who was annoying but it was the stuff she sparked off in me. I found out that it was indeed possible to have a completely different experience and that was quite awesome. She is now one of my closest friends! Anyhow, another side effect was that everyone around me was in denial when seemingly overnight I changed my opinion of her. They just couldn't believe it. We had always bitched about her, and yet now I just didn't have the impetus to bitch about her any more. I didn't care that they wanted to, I knew I felt the same in the past but now I had a new feeling about her. So having done a lot of work on my own I'm feeling around to see who is out there and what you think..... I have gained a lot by discovering that I am capable of holding what might seem to be contradictory beliefs at different times, and yet each belief feels to me to be completely true at the time that i am holding it. My experience of the world changes when I really think that it is possible for that belief to be true. I even thought that I might be insane at one point but I just let it happen- quite scary but I came through the other side, and I'm quite glad to have faced that question. I know for certain that I am not fixed, I am infinitely changable. I do not desire security from a fixed point, I desire security in being able to be what I am in each and every moment. I am interested to see what UCP sheds on my intention because it is looking at things from a slightly different angle. I like the idea of doing it with a real witness because it takes away the responsibility from me for having to remain aware at all times that there is awareness seperate to that specific thing being experienced. I currently believe that the 'discharge' from past experience and habit would necessarily be stronger the more completely and fully I am able to BE that experience and yet still be pulled out of it. I believe doing UCP with a witness would allow me to experience a new reaction to an old experience even when I got caught up in being the experience. I guess part of me longs to let go, but wants to know that I'll be safe if I do that- my awareness will return. Well, might be a bit tricky while I'm in Java but still. The internet is a good place to start. Thank you for your attention. I look forward to getting some thoughts in return. (another 20 hours & I've done the 24hr challenge) ============ KP REPLIES TO ESTHER ============== ++++++ BRAVO! ++++++ Re: [UCP-List] UCP (Esther) [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology Esther "esjwilds" : At 10:40 PM 5/31/2002 -0000, you wrote: >Hello there, Hello! >Where am I now? > >I am new to this list and I am new to the idea of UCP having just >come across 'it' on the internet for the first time about 3 days ago. FIND it to DO it in three days! Way Cool! We have some people who are still lecturing on UCP after three years, and who have yet to find out what it is, much less actually DO any of it! >I am writing here as a result of reading >about UCP and I am intending to *DO UCP*. Your intention is admirably direct. How did you find UCP to read about? >I am hoping that what I write will be >considered as fitting for this list. This is cream on top! >I am imagining that some readers might >consider this post as inappropriate. Or others might not at all. WHERE could be more appropriate? >Perhaps this is not the best place for this >to go- any other suggestions let me know. WHERE could be better? alt.ucp? TOO? >Where could I be? > >In a place where I recieve communication and feedback from people who >have the same intention as me. I am aware of holding an intention >which appears to ME (Esther) to be of fundamental importance. This >intention is to know Wonderful! Your arrow of inquiry just split the bullseye. I've been thinking about that a lot too lately. >*Who* I (insert personal name) am. This is also defined by me as >*What* I (insert personal name) am CURRENTLY experiencing. > >Compare > >I currently feel that I am doing this on my own. Bravo! FOR *DOING* UCP, ANY WAY YOU CAN! >I feel that it would be helpful to get feedback from people >who I truly believe hold the same intention as me. Me too! >I believe being in the *future* scene would help me in my aim to be >aware of my intention at all times. AT the moment there are times >when I am aware of having let go of my intention. In the *future* >scene the times when I let go of my intention are fewer and further >between. In the *future* scene I consistently remember that it is >precisely those situations in which I feel most uncomfortable that I >have the MOST to gain. I believe I currently lapse into believing >that I have something to fear from the way external reality IS >affecting me and that there is something I have to avoid, to escape >from. > > >Where have I been? Felt like that before? > >Yes. Last night X invites me to go to a salon with him. I want to >go to the salon but I feel uncomfortable about going on my own just >him and me. I think I have to escape from his invitation. I think I >already know his intention. I believe that X wants to have a >relationship with me. I say no to going to the salon because I >believe that it is necessary for me to avoid him. I don't want to >find out whether or not he really wants a relationship with me. I >imagine that I know his intention but actually he has not made it >clear to me and I want to avoid finding out the answer for sure. I >think that he can affect my current decision to be in a relationship >with Y. I believe that X wants to make me have a relationship with >him. I believe if I was in a relationship with X then I could not at >the same time be in a relationship with Y. I believe I want to be in >a relationship with Y. I believe that I have to fear X because he >wants something which I believe I don't. > >And Now? > >I believe that I was avoiding the possibility of experiencing X >telling me that he wants to have a relationship with me. > >Small reminder- I believe those experiences which come to me >unbidden, and that I did not expect or ask for are those experiences >which hold the greatest benefit for refining my intention. New data from the universe-at-large? >Unexpected experiences which cause discomfort allow me to forget my >intention and become unaware. Once I remember my intention I am >aware of the places where my intention cracks(as above), and I can >work on it. Cool. >Where could you be? > >I could be in a place where I am open to experiencing X telling me >that he wants to have a relationship with me. Charmingly relevant, natural and easy! >Compare > >In the *future* place I am open to hearing what he has to say. I am >not afraid to hear his point of view. Now, I believe that he may >have the ability to make me change my mind when that might not be >what I REALLY want! In the present moment I believe that I may not >be in control of making my own choice. In the present moment I feel >I don't have the freedom to say what I am REALLY thinking- ie if my >thought is 'I don't want a relationship with you' I imagine that it >will be difficult to say that to him. I imagine being forced into a >certain course of action because I can't say what I am really >thinking. > >Past? > >When I first met Y I was annoyed by the fact that he wanted to spend >time talking to me because I thought I didn't want to spend time >talking to him but that I couldn't say no because it would be rude. >I felt that I was forced to talk to him because I couldn't say what I >was really thinking 'You are bothering me, and I am not interested in >spending time listening to you talking' But then he offered me the >choice. After the first 5 minutes of trying to chat with me (we were >on a 4 hour bus journey)he said to me- "Is it ok if i sit next to you >and talk with you? If you have a problem with that just tell me- >ok!" I truly believed that he wanted me to tell him my reaction just >as it was. I was disarmed by the fact that he seemed to be open to >the possibility of rejection. He seemed to be more concerned about >knowing the truth of of my feelings than the chance that his desire >to talk with me might be rejected. Because of that I felt that I was >completely free to decide whether I wanted to talk with him or not. >I considered saying that I didn't want to, but then found out that I >was rather curious to know what he was like, and what would happen if >I did talk to him. I thought that if at any moment I had had enough >then I would be comfortable in telling him that i wanted to stop >talking and rest. This is the one quality that I hold above others >in my relationship with Y. I feel that he is always demanding the >truth from me about my feelings, and when I am around him I feel that >his questions help me clarify things. > >Now? > >This has come to the point of integration. It seems to me now that >this has helped me to define the quality that I hold to be the most >important in my interaction with others. In a strange way (who said >progress was linear) I don't know. I said it was often full circle. And very often surprising, although in retrospect, perhaps inevitable. >it has made it clear to me that I wish to have >contact with others who want to know it As It Really Is, and who I >believe want me to say what I really think, what I really feel, and >are not afraid to to the same back. Way Cool! Me too! I think about that a lot! >What I want is the truth- how is it really? The bodhisattva's prayer. >My desire is to communicate with others who are concerned >with being aware of what is truly being experienced. I desire >communication with those who state that as their primary intention >above all others. Hello! >I desire dialogue with those who aim to know the reality >of what they are experiencing- whatever that might be, >and who are not afraid to then say that out loud. Welcome Home! >I want to experience as much honest communication as is humanly possible! What about hex-humanly? >That involves both parties having the ability to be >aware and willingness to express that outwardly. Extra Way Cool! You found a niche! Where that's wanted! Welcome! >So............four hours later and that's my first UCP session proper. Marvelous! >I have been doing a lot of work on myself over the last two >months after curing myself of the belief that the answers to >MY questions are outside myself. Bravo! UCP is exactly what you were looking for! >I was always looking for a Guru to >tell me the answers but then I got sick of the disappointment I >always felt when the chosen guru/method let me down. Plenty of unpleasant experiences to COMPARE. >It seems I'm just not capable of handing >over total resposibility to another person. Excellent! You passed the hypnotic self-betrayal test! >At the end of the day I will ONLY believe it's true if it is true >for me, not just because someone else tells me that it is true. This is a free-for-all. You fit right in. >I realised I was intruiged by the idea that experience is affected by >beliefs and that I could change my experience by changing my belief. >I realised that I could do an experiment and find out if that >statement held true for myself. TESTING! Before lecturing! How refreshing! >I amazed myself very early on by >discovering that it was possible for me to have a new experience of a >person who I had always found intensely annoying. Way Cool! >I had said to >myself, well, I could never ever imagine myself feeling differently >about HER so surely here is a good test. What was interesting was >that I found out that I had been completely unaware of why I >continually experienced annoyance while I was around her. I thought >it was HER who was annoying but it was the stuff she sparked off in >me. I found out that it was indeed possible to have a completely >different experience and that was quite awesome. She is now one of >my closest friends! Anyhow, another side effect was that everyone >around me was in denial when seemingly overnight I changed my opinion >of her. They just couldn't believe it. We had always bitched about >her, and yet now I just didn't have the impetus to bitch about her >any more. I didn't care that they wanted to, I knew I felt the same >in the past but now I had a new feeling about her. Wonderful! >So having done a lot of work on my own I'm feeling around to see who >is out there and what you think..... SO GLAD you are doing the 24 hour challenge! Your first session is already marvelous. You build on that. >I have gained a lot by discovering that I am capable of holding what >might seem to be contradictory beliefs at different times, and yet >each belief feels to me to be completely true at the time that i am >holding it. New perception. UCP resolves those opposing or shifting viewpoints by tone zero. >My experience of the world changes when I really think >that it is possible for that belief to be true. Shifting from impossible to possible is a major step. Getting from possible to actual is the real big deal. >I even thought that >I might be insane at one point but I just let it happen- quite scary >but I came through the other side, and I'm quite glad to have faced >that question. Way Cool! >I know for certain that I am not fixed, I am infinitely changable. Way Cool! >I do not desire security from a fixed point, I >desire security in being able to be what I am >in each and every moment. Marvelous! >I am interested to see what UCP sheds on my intention >because it is looking at things from a slightly different angle. I'm very interested in that too! >I like the idea >of doing it with a real witness because it takes away the >responsibility from me for having to remain aware at all times that >there is awareness seperate to that specific thing being >experienced. Yes. Get a separate Co-Witness TOO! You already got your self in session and full circle to perception shift! You're over the big hump already! ADD another Witness to your UCPractice. >I currently believe that the 'discharge' from past >experience and habit would necessarily be stronger the more >completely and fully I am able to BE that experience and yet still be >pulled out of it. And there is some satisfation in telling another person about it. And it builds astonishing relationships. >I believe doing UCP with a witness would allow me >to experience a new reaction to an old experience >even when I got caught up in being the experience. I hope you get to TEST that soon! >I guess part of me longs to let go, but wants to know >that I'll be safe if I do that- my awareness will return. Not to worry! Look at that too! >Well, might be a bit tricky while I'm in Java but still. You're in Java, as in Indonesia? >The internet is a good place to start. You found UCP! You'll find Witnesses too. >Thank you for your attention. Thanks for writing! >I look forward to getting >some thoughts in return. The time is now! >(another 20 hours & I've done the 24hr challenge) ++++++ BRAVO! ++++++ WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1045-1022919979-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 08:26:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g518QGf16337 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:26:16 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1045-1022919979-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 08:26:19 -0000 X-Sender: ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 08:26:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 30299 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 08:26:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 08:26:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 08:26:18 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g518Q9n05281; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:26:09 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020531142904.00e98568@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Alexander Kxpke X-Yahoo-Profile: ucpalex MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 08:26:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 283 On Fri, 31 May 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > When you really don't care > what I think of you one way > or another, you can look back > and compare to where you are > now, and you'll be a UCPeon then. > > Most of the UCPeons don't care much > what I think, although what they think > about my opinions might be important. I care about what you think, KP! IMO you have a strong tendency to be right about the things that you talk about. You are a bodhisattva. There are very few of them here on earth. Listening to what a bodhisattva has to say is certainly not the worst thing to do. Many people may be disturbed by your flaming.... well, they just aren't used to dealing with persons who say what they think. 80) Of course one shouldn't by default agree with bodhisattvas, one still has to see it through their own products of thought, but listening and duplicating are activities which carry great benefits in itself. TT#29 is my favourite. It's beautiful! I wasn't able to duplicate what it was about when I read it the first time. Now I do. Best Wishes, Alexander K. ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From customerservice5831k05@spc.com Sat Jun 1 10:21:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from spc.com ([210.66.208.206]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51AKvX01870; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 10:20:58 GMT Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 10:20:58 GMT Received: from f64.law4.hotmail.com ([14.77.124.116]) by mail.gmx.net with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 06:15:30 +0400 Received: from 117.250.211.228 ([117.250.211.228]) by da001d2020.lax-ca.osd.concentric.net with esmtp; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 09:08:47 +0100 Received: from unknown (147.35.150.232) by mta05bw.bigpond.com with local; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 05:02:04 +0500 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-yk04.mx.aol.com) (46.134.93.126) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net with SMTP; 31 May 2002 21:55:21 +1200 Reply-To: Message-ID: <003d54b87dba$7558b8c6$3cc88ee6@xwhgwm> From: To: Septic.Tank.Owner Subject: Septic Tank? Maintenance Tips 7367yVYV1-185qsnEl16 MiME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A8_84D68A1C.C2421C13" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster Importance: Normal Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 284 ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_84D68A1C.C2421C13 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SWYgeW91ciBob21lIGlzIHNlcnZlZCBieSBhIHNlcHRpYyBzeXN0ZW0sIHlv dSB3aWxsIGJlIGFibGUgdG8gcmVjZWl2ZQ0KaW52YWx1YWJsZSBpbmZvcm1h dGlvbiBvbiBob3cgdG8gZWxpbWluYXRlIHB1bXAgb3V0cywgbWFpbnRhaW4g dGhlDQpzeXN0ZW0gcHJvcGVybHkgYW5kIGN1cmUgcHJvYmxlbXMgc3VjaCBh cyBiYWNrdXBzLCB3ZXQgc3BvdHMsIG9kb3IsIGV0Yy4NCg0KWW91IGNhbiBk byB0aGlzIGJ5IGNoZWNraW5nIG91dCBvdXIgU1BDIHByb2dyYW0gYXQ6DQoN Cmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYmxhY2tzbm93Y2xvdWQuY29tDQoNCkluIGFkZGl0aW9u LCB5b3Ugd2lsbCBoYXZlIHRoZSBvcHBvcnR1bml0eSB0byBwYXJ0aWNpcGF0 ZSBpbiBhIGZyZWUNCnRyaWFsIHRvIHRlc3QgdGhlIGVmZmVjdGl2ZW5lc3Mg b2YgU1BDLg0KDQpQbGVhc2UgY2hlY2sgdXMgb3V0Lg0KDQpUaGFuayB5b3Uu DQoNClNpbmNlcmVseSwNCg0KU1BDDQoNClAuUy4gUmVtZW1iZXIsIHlvdSBt dXN0IGNsaWNrIG9uIHRoaXMgbGluayB0byByZWNlaXZlIHRoaXMgaGVscGZ1 bA0KaW5mb3JtYXRpb24hDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYmxhY2tzbm93Y2xvdWQu Y29tDQoNCg0KDQpUbyBiZSByZW1vdmVkIGZyb20gb3VyIGVtYWlsIGxpc3Qg cGxlYXNlIGNsaWNrIG9uIHRoZSBsaW5rIGJlbG93Lg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5i bGFja3Nub3djbG91ZC5jb20vcmVtb3ZlLmh0bWwNCg0KMjE4MVp4R2c2LTYw N29ucnMxNjY3TGZOUDUtOTkxb0dMUjA3OTNUaU5mMS0zNzdRVFR5NDk5MnJX V3U4LTgyN1RjZFI4OTMzeWpyVDktNDkzbDc2DQo= From sentto-6247521-1046-1022933033-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 12:03:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51C3oK10896 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 12:03:50 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1046-1022933033-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 12:03:54 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 12:03:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 84212 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 12:03:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 12:03:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 12:03:52 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.167] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A824539F007A; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 08:03:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF8B824.3F1F4AFF@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <3.0.6.32.20020601005543.01161258@net-prophet.net> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 08:03:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP (Esther) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 285 Bravo and applause. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1047-1022946343-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 15:45:41 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.91]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51Fje516608 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 15:45:41 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1047-1022946343-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 15:45:44 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 15:45:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 71250 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 15:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 15:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 15:45:43 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g51FjX129861; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 15:45:33 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <003d54b87dba$7558b8c6$3cc88ee6@xwhgwm> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 15:45:33 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [UCP-List] Re: Septic Tank? Maintenance Tips 7367yVYV1-185qsnEl16 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 286 On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 customerservice5831k05@spc.com wrote: > Return-Path: > Reply-To: > Message-ID: <003d54b87dba$7558b8c6$3cc88ee6@xwhgwm> > From: > To: Septic.Tank.Owner > Subject: Septic Tank? Maintenance Tips > 7367yVYV1-185qsnEl16 > X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster > Importance: Normal > > If your home is served by a septic system, you will be able to receive > invaluable information on how to eliminate pump outs, maintain the > system properly and cure problems such as backups, wet spots, odor, etc. Dear SPC, It has been our experience that unruly septic systems are usually merely dramatizing the insanities of their owners. Nevertheless I will keep your message on file for such occasion this should not prove to be the case. > You can do this by checking out our SPC program at: > > http://www.blacksnowcloud.com You can check out OUR UCP progam at ucplist@yahoogroups.com, where you have been culling e-mail addresses - evidently without bothering to read the messages to which they are attached. > In addition, you will have the opportunity to participate in a free > trial to test the effectiveness of SPC. We have much in common! We like to get rid of shit in the most expedicious manner possible. And not only do you get a free TRIAL, ALL our services are free. (Unless you need extensive personal consultation, of course, which is very unlikely). > Please check us out. Thank you so much! The invitation is reciprocal! We see eye to eye on many issues! > Thank you. > > Sincerely, > > SPC > > P.S. Remember, you must click on this link to receive this helpful > information! I won't forget! Thanks so much for the reminder. I DO have a short attention span. And DON'T forget to check out UCP! > http://www.blacksnowcloud.com > > > > To be removed from our email list please click on the link below. Hey, wait a minute! I did not ask to be on your list in the first place. My memory is not THAT bad. Will that "removal list" accept a wildcard? > http://www.blacksnowcloud.com/remove.html > > 2181ZxGg6-607onrs1667LfNP5-991oGLR0793TiNf1-377QTTy4992rWWu8-827TcdR8933yjrT9-493l76 > Thanks again- abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1048-1022950839-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 17:00:36 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51H0Za16746 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:00:35 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1048-1022950839-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 17:00:39 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 17:00:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 17379 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 17:00:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 17:00:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 17:00:37 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.214]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA26998 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 12:00:35 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020601095652.0116baa0@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <003d54b87dba$7558b8c6$3cc88ee6@xwhgwm> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 09:56:52 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Septic Tank? Maintenance Tips 7367yVYV1-185qsnEl16 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 287 Dear Abner You have a very creative sense of humor! And your spam souffle is marvelous! KP ================================== Abner wrote: >On Sat, 1 Jun 2002 customerservice5831k05@spc.com wrote: > >> Return-Path: >> Reply-To: >> Message-ID: <003d54b87dba$7558b8c6$3cc88ee6@xwhgwm> >> From: >> To: Septic.Tank.Owner >> Subject: Septic Tank? Maintenance Tips >> 7367yVYV1-185qsnEl16 >> X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster >> Importance: Normal >> >> If your home is served by a septic system, you will be able to receive >> invaluable information on how to eliminate pump outs, maintain the >> system properly and cure problems such as backups, wet spots, odor, etc. > >Dear SPC, > >It has been our experience that unruly septic systems are usually merely >dramatizing the insanities of their owners. > >Nevertheless I will keep your message on file for such occasion this >should not prove to be the case. > >> You can do this by checking out our SPC program at: >> >> http://www.blacksnowcloud.com > >You can check out OUR UCP progam at ucplist@yahoogroups.com, where you have >been culling e-mail addresses - evidently without bothering to read the >messages to which they are attached. > >> In addition, you will have the opportunity to participate in a free >> trial to test the effectiveness of SPC. > >We have much in common! We like to get rid of shit in the most >expedicious manner possible. And not only do you get a free TRIAL, >ALL our services are free. (Unless you need extensive personal >consultation, of course, which is very unlikely). > >> Please check us out. > >Thank you so much! >The invitation is reciprocal! > >We see eye to eye on many issues! >> Thank you. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> SPC >> >> P.S. Remember, you must click on this link to receive this helpful >> information! > >I won't forget! Thanks so much for the reminder. I DO have a short >attention span. And DON'T forget to check out UCP! > >> http://www.blacksnowcloud.com >> >> >> >> To be removed from our email list please click on the link below. > >Hey, wait a minute! I did not ask to be on your list in the first place. >My memory is not THAT bad. > >Will that "removal list" accept a wildcard? > >> http://www.blacksnowcloud.com/remove.html >> >> 2181ZxGg6-607onrs1667LfNP5-991oGLR0793TiNf1-377QTTy4992rWWu8-827TcdR8933yjrT 9-493l76 >> >Thanks again- > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1049-1022956091-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 18:28:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51IS7606725 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:28:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1049-1022956091-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 18:28:11 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 18:28:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 81191 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 18:28:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 18:28:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 18:28:09 -0000 Received: from du-031-0037.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.37] helo=oemcomputer) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17EDbk-00027P-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 19:28:08 +0100 Message-ID: <00a601c2099a$07f36380$258e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: "UCP List" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 16:29:15 +0100 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: [UCP List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 288 Oleg stated; > It's hard > to appreciate what's going on in a mind of some Papua native, or in a > mind of someone tripping on acid, or in a mind of a person you > disdain. That may be where you are now, but is not true for me. I found particularly following tone 5 integration that that is just not the case. A whole area of understanding opened up for me, allowing me to see so clearly what mankind is doing, in all the many and varied demonstrations of the emotional tones. In fact it becomes 'painfully' obvious! And all the time through the territory prior to this point, I desperately wanted to understand more, how the tones worked, what makes people 'tick' etc. I lost interest in that after rising above death. It re-emerged as I stated above. Oleg again; >Perhaps. I stumbled on the approach while doing normal UCP. >At that moment it became quite clear that people are not-being just >as frequently as being. That is very true, and particularly around the BEING NOTHING band, accompanied by the compulsion to contribute (MUST BE CONTRIBUTED TO). Or one becomes aware of a whole area that does not *seem* to be addressed by UCP, which must be controlled, or MUST BE CONFRONTED! I had a similar experience when I became keenly aware of what I still thought of as GPM's. And started looking at wordings that would help *directly* address this area with UCP. I did get to see the futility of that! One has goals in life is TRUE. They are not really any different from any other *life* experience, apart from the potential lengevity. I did not need to observe them as *GPM constructs*. They resolve just as any compulsive/irrational content from our past experience, with standard UCP. Do not be surprised that as one progresses through the territory, that one cannot help but display beingness with the colour of the emotional tone. Like when one hits the EFFORT band, sessions can become extremely difficult to actually DO! Life becomes an effort! We see the effort in everything around us. So it is true with the whole territory (at least that which I have consistently seen so far). Lets face it Oleg, you have found something unique - that works - UCP! One becomes startlingly AWARE of many things during the journey. One of those might be that there is indeed many people around 'not-being' many things. The fact that you may not have seen this before, or been so keenly aware of it does not make it into a new area that needs its own special handling. That would be SUBSTITUTING something else for UCP. BEINGNESS REFLECTS EMOTIONAL TONE. Enjoy it and learn what you can. :) Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1050-1022956096-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 18:28:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51ISD606842 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:28:13 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1050-1022956096-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 18:28:16 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 18:28:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 56425 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 18:28:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 18:28:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 18:28:15 -0000 Received: from du-031-0037.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.37] helo=oemcomputer) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17EDbp-00027P-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 19:28:13 +0100 Message-ID: <00a701c2099a$0ab45840$258e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: <73468757.20020601110351@mtu-net.ru> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 17:51:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 289 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex" To: Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation > Hello, Oleg! > > pr> What I was getting at is that there are very hot areas in human minds > pr> (not referring to anyone in particular) which they avoid looking at > pr> because they think they NEVER can be there. "Me, killing cute > pr> kittens?! Nonsense!" "Becoming a junkie? Absurd! Can't happen!" > pr> (a little puff of smoke coming out their ears) > > pr> If you plainly ask them "where you might be?" or "where have you > pr> been?" they would *never ever* touch that area. Because they decided > pr> it can never happen to them, in the past or in the future! Even if it > pr> actually did happen (which is likely) then they have denied any > pr> responsibility for it. So you are just going straight against their > pr> determination *not* to deal with the subject. > > pr> So, ok, I say. What is it that cannot happen? (not necessarily in > pr> these words, it's the concept which is important) > > pr> "Oh, I cannot ever be a mafia boss" > > pr> Hah! *Now* they are looking! Yes, it's a trick of sorts. So what? Got > pr> them (or myself) looking and comparing, that's the goal. Interpretation, you got them looking at what YOU decided should be looked at. That might be where you are now, it is NOT the goal of UCP. > > That is where they are now - > > CANNOT LOOK AT SOME AREAS or VIEWPOINTS > > :-) Yep, it really is *that* simple! > > or it is where YOU are? :) > > OK, the great effect of UCP is that can get you out of any fixed idea, > viewpoint, whatever just by keeping doing UCP. You look at one viewpoint, > another, compare, look, mock-up, compare, and do on and and so on... Yes. > > And after some time you get "oh! i *AM* looking and comparing, > that's where I am now!" or "oh! I am in that fixed idea I can't look > at something", or any other realisation about where you are unknowingly. Yes. > > And that's the major UCP ability, and the seeker should use and > improve that ability - to get looking at himself, at where he's really now. The ability *will improve the more the Seeker looks, for him/herSelf. > > "I am doing a UCP session", for example > > if you'll give him evaluations or alter the process for him, > or just shall tell him "you are now in this and that", > you'll invalidate his ability, you'll do that FOR him, > instead of him, but your task as a witness is to learn > him to look exactly where he is now. Exactly, classic SUBSTITUTION. > > If you'll just keep doing UCP, he'll do that by himself, > and sooner or later he'll learn how to do that. > > If you'll do that for him each time... he'll not :( > > >> I disagree here. You don't need to decide > >> what the seeker has to look at. > > pr> Even when the seeker and the witness are the same person? :) > > Especially in that case! Exactly. When soloing, one doesn't have the luxury of a Witness to keep track of where you are, who is NOT being influenced by the Seekers case. This happens at ANY time, especially *during* session. > > Just take what is your attention is on, > do not THINK instead of it. > > Do no substitute looking with thinking/deciding. Which could require a great EFFORT, but it is possible to get over that! > > >> Whatever the attention is on it is on > >> and that is what the seeker can look at. > > pr> I think the troubles come not from what the seeker is looking AT but > pr> what he/she is looking THROUGH, WITH or FROM. By hook or by crook we > pr> would like to get him to examine these points as well. In this case > pr> the person is already looking at the world in terms of *negation*, > pr> trying to prove to him/herself that he is NOT like this. He is being > pr> a not-murderer, a not-lousy mother, a not-junkie etc. There are not > pr> only compulsive beingnesses, but compulsive not-beingnesses as well. > > Yes, you've got the idea! > > The task is to let him learn how to get out from this viewpoints > by himself, not by your evaluations, process altering, whatever else. > > Just do the process, and he'll do that sooner or later. If you want a SECRET, then the secret is to ALLOW the Seeker to DO the process. > > As a witness, you surely can sometimes SEE where he is now > before HE does that, but do not prevent him from looking > by telling him something, process altering, etc. > > pr> I don not know whether asking for the positive side only (that is he > pr> classic UCP) will eventually give the same results as > pr> positive+negative. > > pr> I don't think negative+positive can be *worse* than positive-only, > pr> and if there's a potential improvement to be had, then I belive this > pr> is worth investigating. > > Your ideas about "giving him more" seems to miss that idea, > of seeker getting himself out from some viewpoints by comparing > similar viewpoints, that just come into session, and he see no > connection between them, and after some time he goes > to the viewpoint, that unites them, and where he WAS before session, > maybe for many many years, and that was crushing his life... Yes, classic UCP. > > You THINK that make him looking at cats murdering will give him more, > I say that letting him do the process to realize the viewpoint > he is now will give him much more, and your alterings to UCP > just distracts his attention from this main task into some > probably unnecessary things... I agree. > > Your "negative improvements" may distract him from digging > into the viewpoint he's now by comparing other viewpoints > into some maybe hot material that is not necessary for him > to increase his tone level. Whatever the Witness NEEDS to look at, he WILL if allowed to, in the Witnesses OWN TIME. > > Remember, UCP is neither dianetics nor scientology, > the goal of UCP is not getting some hot areas of your bank or case, > the goal is increasing his tone level! and EXPANING his awareness. Alex, over the time I have been reading your postings here and a.c.t and have to say it gives me great JOY to have observed how you have CHANGED over this time. I truly duplicate your communication and deeply UNDERSTAND your view. :) > > -- > Alex, http://thetan.ru > > Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1051-1022956099-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 18:28:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51ISG606877 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:28:16 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1051-1022956099-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 18:28:19 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 18:28:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 73512 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 18:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 18:28:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 18:28:18 -0000 Received: from du-031-0037.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.142.37] helo=oemcomputer) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17EDbr-00027P-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Sat, 01 Jun 2002 19:28:16 +0100 Message-ID: <00a801c2099a$0c5f9740$258e7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 19:23:00 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP (Esther) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 290 ----- Original Message ----- From: "esjwilds" To: Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 11:40 PM Subject: [UCP-List] UCP (Esther) > Hello there, Hi! How refreshing when someone new comes along to sing... "I found, I read, I did" instead of "I found, I believed, I lecture" > > > Where am I now? > > I am new to this list and I am new to the idea of UCP having just > come across 'it' on the internet for the first time about 3 days ago. > I am writing here as a result of reading about UCP and I am intending > to *DO UCP*. I am hoping that what I write will be considered as > fitting for this list. Exactly what this list exists for. > I am imagining that some readers might > consider this post as inappropriate. Perhaps this is not the best > place for this to go- any other suggestions let me know. No. You struck lucky and got to EXACTLY the right place. :) > > > Where could I be? > > In a place where I recieve communication and feedback from people who > have the same intention as me. I am aware of holding an intention > which appears to ME (Esther) to be of fundamental importance. This > intention is to know Cool. > > *Who* I (insert personal name) am. This is also defined by me as > *What* I (insert personal name) am CURRENTLY experiencing. > > Compare > > I currently feel that I am doing this on my own. I feel that it > would be helpful to get feedback from people who I truly believe hold > the same intention as me. As in the desire/search for *other* viewpoints? Wonderful. > > I believe being in the *future* scene would help me in my aim to be > aware of my intention at all times. AT the moment there are times > when I am aware of having let go of my intention. In the *future* > scene the times when I let go of my intention are fewer and further > between. In the *future* scene I consistently remember that it is > precisely those situations in which I feel most uncomfortable that I > have the MOST to gain. I believe I currently lapse into believing > that I have something to fear from the way external reality IS > affecting me and that there is something I have to avoid, to escape > from. > > > Where have I been? Felt like that before? > > Yes. Last night X invites me to go to a salon with him. I want to > go to the salon but I feel uncomfortable about going on my own just > him and me. I think I have to escape from his invitation. I think I > already know his intention. I believe that X wants to have a > relationship with me. I say no to going to the salon because I > believe that it is necessary for me to avoid him. I don't want to > find out whether or not he really wants a relationship with me. I > imagine that I know his intention but actually he has not made it > clear to me and I want to avoid finding out the answer for sure. I > think that he can affect my current decision to be in a relationship > with Y. I believe that X wants to make me have a relationship with > him. I believe if I was in a relationship with X then I could not at > the same time be in a relationship with Y. I believe I want to be in > a relationship with Y. I believe that I have to fear X because he > wants something which I believe I don't. > > And Now? > > I believe that I was avoiding the possibility of experiencing X > telling me that he wants to have a relationship with me. > > Small reminder- I believe those experiences which come to me > unbidden, and that I did not expect or ask for are those experiences > which hold the greatest benefit for refining my intention. Marvelous! Life's Lessons! I found throughout my 24 hour challenge, that life would invariably provide me with the opportunity to learn something about myself. To start, one has to see *that*. > Unexpected experiences which cause discomfort allow me to forget my > intention and become unaware. Once I remember my intention I am > aware of the places where my intention cracks(as above), and I can > work on it. > > Where could you be? > > I could be in a place where I am open to experiencing X telling me > that he wants to have a relationship with me. > > Compare > > In the *future* place I am open to hearing what he has to say. I am > not afraid to hear his point of view. Now, I believe that he may > have the ability to make me change my mind when that might not be > what I REALLY want! In the present moment I believe that I may not > be in control of making my own choice. In the present moment I feel > I don't have the freedom to say what I am REALLY thinking- ie if my > thought is 'I don't want a relationship with you' I imagine that it > will be difficult to say that to him. I imagine being forced into a > certain course of action because I can't say what I am really > thinking. Yes, a typical human response. We (mostly) are trained to SUBSTITUTE our true feelings and desire to tell it HOW IT IS with politeness and good manners! You describe for us a classic instance of this. Thankyou! > > Past? > > When I first met Y I was annoyed by the fact that he wanted to spend > time talking to me because I thought I didn't want to spend time > talking to him but that I couldn't say no because it would be rude. > I felt that I was forced to talk to him because I couldn't say what I > was really thinking 'You are bothering me, and I am not interested in > spending time listening to you talking' But then he offered me the > choice. After the first 5 minutes of trying to chat with me (we were > on a 4 hour bus journey)he said to me- "Is it ok if i sit next to you > and talk with you? If you have a problem with that just tell me- > ok!" I truly believed that he wanted me to tell him my reaction just > as it was. I was disarmed by the fact that he seemed to be open to > the possibility of rejection. He seemed to be more concerned about > knowing the truth of of my feelings than the chance that his desire > to talk with me might be rejected. Because of that I felt that I was > completely free to decide whether I wanted to talk with him or not. > I considered saying that I didn't want to, but then found out that I > was rather curious to know what he was like, and what would happen if > I did talk to him. I thought that if at any moment I had had enough > then I would be comfortable in telling him that i wanted to stop > talking and rest. This is the one quality that I hold above others > in my relationship with Y. I feel that he is always demanding the > truth from me about my feelings, and when I am around him I feel that > his questions help me clarify things. > > Now? > > This has come to the point of integration. It seems to me now that > this has helped me to define the quality that I hold to be the most > important in my interaction with others. In a strange way (who said > progress was linear) it has made it clear to me that I wish to have > contact with others who want to know it As It Really Is, and who I > believe want me to say what I really think, what I really feel, and > are not afraid to to the same back. What I want is the truth- how is > it really? This makes my heart soar! If we just will allow it, life will always provide such opportunities, if we have learned to LOOK! > My desire is to communicate with others who are concerned > with being aware of what is truly being experienced. I desire > communication with those who state that as their primary intention > above all others. You got the bulls-eye first shot! > I desire dialogue with those who aim to know the > reality of what they are experiencing- whatever that might be, and > who are not afraid to then say that out loud. I want to experience > as much honest communication as is humanly possible! That involves > both parties having the ability to be aware and willingness to > express that outwardly. Welcome to the club. :) > So............four hours later and that's my first UCP session > proper. I have been doing a lot of work on myself over the last two > months after curing myself of the belief that the answers to MY > questions are outside myself. I was always looking for a Guru to > tell me the answers but then I got sick of the disappointment I > always felt when the chosen guru/method let me down. I see that kind of experience "sick of the disappointmet", as giving oneself a clue. > It seems I'm > just not capable of handing over total resposibility to another > person. Great! Give yourself a big pat on the back. > At the end of the day I will ONLY believe it's true if it is > true for me, not just because someone else tells me that it is true. > > I realised I was intruiged by the idea that experience is affected by > beliefs and that I could change my experience by changing my belief. Is that as in allowing the experience to unfold without infecting it with belief? > I realised that I could do an experiment and find out if that > statement held true for myself. I amazed myself very early on by > discovering that it was possible for me to have a new experience of a > person who I had always found intensely annoying. I had said to > myself, well, I could never ever imagine myself feeling differently > about HER so surely here is a good test. What was interesting was > that I found out that I had been completely unaware of why I > continually experienced annoyance while I was around her. I thought > it was HER who was annoying but it was the stuff she sparked off in > me. I found out that it was indeed possible to have a completely > different experience and that was quite awesome. She is now one of > my closest friends! Wonderful! UCP in action. You chose a different path to tread. > Anyhow, another side effect was that everyone > around me was in denial when seemingly overnight I changed my opinion > of her. They just couldn't believe it. Of course not. How dare you shatter their ILLusions! > We had always bitched about > her, and yet now I just didn't have the impetus to bitch about her > any more. I didn't care that they wanted to, I knew I felt the same > in the past but now I had a new feeling about her. > > So having done a lot of work on my own I'm feeling around to see who > is out there and what you think..... Here I am and what I think. :) > > I have gained a lot by discovering that I am capable of holding what > might seem to be contradictory beliefs at different times, and yet > each belief feels to me to be completely true at the time that i am > holding it. Yes. That is the nature of BE-LIE-f. One doesn't need truth when a belief can be manufactured. :_( )) > My experience of the world changes when I really think > that it is possible for that belief to be true. I even thought that > I might be insane at one point but I just let it happen- quite scary > but I came through the other side, and I'm quite glad to have faced > that question. I know for certain that I am not fixed, I am > infinitely changable. > > I do not desire security from a fixed point, I > desire security in being able to be what I am in each and every > moment. > > I am interested to see what UCP sheds on my intention because it is > looking at things from a slightly different angle. Yes, whatever life unexpectiedly brings up (that you have attention on), UCP is there to provide the means to EXAMINE the truth of that. > I like the idea > of doing it with a real witness because it takes away the > responsibility from me for having to remain aware at all times that > there is awareness seperate to that specific thing being > experienced. I currently believe that the 'discharge' from past > experience and habit would necessarily be stronger the more > completely and fully I am able to BE that experience and yet still be > pulled out of it. OK. But it is the EXAMINATION of the DETAIL of that experience, what were YOU doing, feeling, thinking, deciding, avoiding, compulsively responding with, that opens the *I*'s. > I believe doing UCP with a witness would allow me > to experience a new reaction to an old experience even when I got > caught up in being the experience. I guess part of me longs to let > go, but wants to know that I'll be safe if I do that- my awareness > will return. Which is something that you will have to discover for yourself. I can only speak for myself, but I did the 24 hour challenge entirely solo (with the virtual witness) and had no real problem in this area. > > Well, might be a bit tricky while I'm in Java but still. The > internet is a good place to start. Send me the plane tickets give me with a place to stay and you'll have a witness in less than a day! ;-) > > Thank you for your attention. I look forward to getting some > thoughts in return. (another 20 hours & I've done the 24hr challenge) And there they are! Thankyou for telling us of your journey.....of you. Bon Voyage! Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1052-1022956820-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 18:40:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.92]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51IeG616994 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:40:16 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1052-1022956820-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 18:40:20 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 18:40:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 36416 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 18:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 18:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 18:40:18 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.214]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11204 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 13:40:16 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020601113617.0116baa0@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020531142904.00e98568@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 11:36:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 291 Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology KP >> When you really don't care >> what I think of you one way >> or another, you can look back >> and compare to where you are >> now, and you'll be a UCPeon then. >> >> Most of the UCPeons don't care much >> what I think, although what they think >> about my opinions might be important. Alexander Kopke: >I care about what you think, KP! Cool! >IMO you have a strong tendency to be >right about the things that you talk about. YOU must be right about that! :-) >You are a bodhisattva. There are very few of them here on earth. Yes. But our club just launched a global membership drive! Only you can keep yourself from joining! >Listening to what a bodhisattva has to say is certainly not the worst >thing to do. No. And COMPARING his viewpoint to yours can be extraordinarily beneficial. >Many people may be disturbed by your flaming.... well, they just >aren't used to dealing with persons who say what they think. 80) Yes. Perhaps because they are still pretending to think what they have been taught is politically correct or acceptable. >Of course one shouldn't by default agree with bodhisattvas, YES! That is a more accurate statement than mine above. >one still has to see it through their own products of thought, but listening >and duplicating are activities which carry great benefits in itself. Yes. >TT#29 is my favourite. It's beautiful! I wasn't able to >duplicate what it was about when I read it the first time. Now I do. Way Cool! Thanks! I reread it. WE *ARE* DOING with UCPlist and alt.ucp some of the things envisioned in Full Circle! The more of us there are, the better it is working . . . I was very charmed to see several UCPeons independently correcting misrepresentations and misunderstanding of basic UCP recently. It's SO pleasant NOT to be the only one who knows what is happening! >Best Wishes, > >Alexander K. > >ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org I'm very impressed you have mastered unix and the lonestar box enough to shift your net identity there! Perhaps you could check out mailman at http://www.list.org/ Alex Buksdork might like to shift the UCPlist to mailman if he had some expert guidance on unix and the lonestar box. That would get rid of our yahoo crap and be more flexible. Thanks for DOING! WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1053-1022957210-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 18:46:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51Ikk621562 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 18:46:46 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1053-1022957210-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 18:46:50 -0000 X-Sender: esjwilds@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 18:46:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 57428 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 18:46:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 18:46:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 18:46:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.163] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 18:46:49 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "esjwilds" X-Originating-IP: 202.155.91.142 X-Yahoo-Profile: esjwilds MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 18:46:46 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Esther II Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 292 Hello, Thank you for your warm welcome. Here goes session two. Where are you now? I am happy that I have had a response to my first posting so quickly. I believe that i have found a place where what I am saying will be heard by people who have the ability to understand what I am talking about, and where I can have a real dialogue. The phrase 'it takes one to know one' comes to my mind. Here I think I can be recognised for what I am and it seems to me that there are others here who are truly SEEKERS and not just THINKERS. Something which has become of fundamental importance to me is to make a distinction between ABSTRACT thoughts and ideas and the ability to relate MY thinking to MY life. I am now in a place where it is my intention to recognise that every thing which comes to me from the external world comes to me as MY EXPERIENCE of that thing. I am now in a place where I believe that the only way I can know anything is through MY EXPERIENCE. I have seen and understood that the division which exists in my thinking about the world - ME and THEM - is a way of denying that all of it is MY EXPERIENCE. It is true that THEY may well exist and have an experience which is seperate to mine, but the only knowledge I have of THEM is that I EXPERIENCE them. I wonder if all my capitals are really rather redundant. For some reason I believe that i have to emphasise certain words as being the ones which hold the most importance. I am afraid that the words may be misunderstood and my intention is to make my meaning as clear as possible. For some reason I am thinking that the use of capitals may make it less likely for my meaning to be misunderstood. For the time being I will trust that I am being as clear as I can and I will relinquish the use of capitals. I am signed on to messenger and I just got a pop-up box saying that Y had just come online. I am surprised and I think he is in the internet place where we usually go. I think it's a shame that I missed him. I think I want to say hello to him and send him a message. I think this might be an interruption. I think that I came to a different internet place to where I normally go and this means i can continue with this session even though I know that Y is online. I think if i had gone to the other place i would have been majorly distracted by his presence. I try to send him a message anyway and he doesn't reply. I am annoyed that he doesn't reply. I want to hear from him. Where might you be? I might be in a place where I remember that all of this is my experience. I might be in a place where I acknowledge that the events which I experience hold importance only because they are the events that I experience. I might be able to remember that I can acknowledge that every thing which comes to me IS mine. I might remind myself that I believe it is not within my experience to know that there is such a place as 'out there' and that 'out there' is seperate to my experience of it. I might be in a place where I do not fear the power this place has to affect me. Compare There are two viewpoints. One of them is disempowering the other is empowering. Now I am relieved that I have the opportunity to choose an empowering viewpoint. I am happy that in the past I went through the experience of questioning how I know that any thing is true or real. I am happy that I have a wide range of experiences to call upon. I am happy that I have given myself the option of questioning things on the most fundamental level. I choose to rely 100% on my personal ability to know myself. I am in a place where the only thing that I know to be real and beyond question is the fact that I am constantly experiencing. In this place there is only one truth- I am constantly experiencing. In this place I believe I do not have to be afraid that my experience is the only thing I have to tell me that there is anything outside of my experience. It is not necessary for me to know if there is anything real outside of my experience. I am relaxing about the effect that Y has on my experience. I believe that he is a neutral symbol. I believe that he mirrors back to me the beliefs that I am unconsciously holding. I believe I need to claim my experience as my own in order to be truly aware. I am in a place where I acknowledge that I can never know him seperate to my experience of him. I recognise that when I think about what he is thinking it remains my thought. I am in a place where I believe that it is necessary for me to be simple and to uncover the essentials, the bare facts of my experience. I remember that I can never be his thought. In this place the only thing which I can know about him is that he confirms the fact that I experience. I experience the sensation of seeing in relation to his body, I experience the sensation of hearing in relation to his words, I experience the sensation of touching in relation to his body. These are the facts that I have in relation to him. Past I imagine him sitting in the other internet place (that is my experience not his.) I transfer that into the belief that he is really sitting there and thinking what i am thinking (but that does not get me anywhere.) I pretend that my thought is his thought (I am in denial.) I give away my resposibility for owning my own thoughts. I think 'I want to say hi to him.' I send him a message. I don't recieve any reply from him. I wonder why he is not responding to my message. I start feeling very uncomfortable. I think maybe he hasn't seen my message- he is new to messenger. I want to make sure that he hasn't just overlooked my message. I close the conversation window and start another one. Still no reply. I do this a third time and still no answer. I come to the conclusion that he is choosing not to reply. I ask the question 'Why doesn't he reply?' My answers come thick and fast-He is ignoring my message. He chooses to ignore me. I think 'I want him to acknowledge me.' I think 'I want to be important to him.' I think 'He doesn't care whether or not I want to communicate with him.' I think 'He is not interested in communicating with me.' I think 'I want him to be interested in communicating with me.' I feel ignored by him. I feel unimportant to him. I feel disregarded by him. I feel uncomfortable. I feel there is nothing further that I can do to get him to respond to me. I don't want to force him to reply if he chooses not to. I resign myself to the fact that he will not reply. I am disappointed. I am resigned. I am thinking 'here we go again.' Another case of chasing after something that I can't have. Wanting more than I deserve, believing that I am important to someone when really I am not. Reaching out for a reassuring hand and then feeling that I was stupid to expect the hand to be there in the first place. Yes, really like I feel it was stupid of me to expect him to reply- why should he? What made me think that he would reply in the first place. I think 'you always assume too much Esther' that is your mistake. You take for granted that someone will want to hear you and then you so often feel that you are reaching for something that you don't deserve. When I reach out and it is not there I feel cut off, I feel this is 'how it really is' this is what it comes down to at the end of the day. This is how I always end up feeling in a relationship- I am asking too much, I am expecting too much. I believe there is a honeymoon period where that person really seems to care about reaching out to me- he sends me lots of text messages. He asks to meet with me. He is reaching out to me- I feel that I am important to him, I feel he wants to spend time with me. But then there is a time when I begin to feel that I am doing all the reaching. I believe that I am the one who is always sending the messages. (interesting music playing in the internet place "I tried to fuck your Mom in the ass, I tried to fuck a fucking pirate in the ass" sometimes cosmic timing is just awesome at breaking up awareness and refocusing- pulling out and away into awareness of the surroundings. Aha, and now 'The wind of change' nice moments of serendipity) Now I want to check and see if he is still online. Guess I have got caught up in identification with the picture here. He has become real for me again and I want to know 'Is he still ignoring me?' Ha ha, but another part of me says why be so stupid Esther. Don't do it, just stop your crazy impulse. But I say I want to know if he is still online and i can do it so please excuse me for a moment- I'm sure it's all part of the process. Aha, very interesting. His status is set to Away. Very nice. So now I know that he is still in the internet place and that he has a reasonable command of the messenger process because he has altered his status. So for the time being I can forget about him ignoring me- he obviously doesn't want to be disturbed for the time being so I can get on with what I am doing and let him get on with what he is doing. I wonder briefly if I should set my status to away, but I am convinced that everything is part of the process, my life IS (whoops a momentary lapse into capital emphasis) the process. There is no separation in my mind. What I am doing now is what I intend to be doing all the time. Boxes stop me from acknowledging that it is what it is at every moment. There is nothing except now, ever. Making boxes can be a dangerous pastime for me, I intend to deal with life (for life read my life- there is no other life for me) Dealing with theories and abstractions prevented me from acknowledging the truth of my experience. Compare Not a lot of difference. The past came through so strongly that it stirred the emotions to exist in the present moment once again. This is a successful way of really understanding what was being experienced as soon as possible after the moment itself. The past becomes the present in order to be felt as fully as possible. Once it becomes a real experience and not just thinking then I can find out exactly what it is, not my theory of the experience. The now is the place where I choose to dig deeper into the experience to get to the root of the uncomfortable feeling. I chose to hold the same beliefs as at that moment when I felt uncomfortable. However in the now I then remind myself that I am engaged in a process. I am aware that I am looking at these feelings, these beliefs for a reason. I can still feel the strength of the emotions stirred up by holding those beliefs but at the same time I am aware in the present moment that I am choosing to hold those beliefs in order to understand better what they are. In the past I am not expecting to feel those emotions, I am not anticipating the moment, it just happens. In the past what happens causes a chain reaction and I end up in a certain place without really being aware of where I am and how I got there. In the now situation I am choosing to hold the same beliefs, to go through the same reactions but this time with the intention of making the process a conscious one rather than an unconscious one. Where might I be? In a place where that time lag does not exist. I might be in a place where I am conscious at the moment where it happens that I am choosing to hold those beliefs in order to know them and understand them with full awareness, and in order to know exactly what they are. I am in a place where the unexpected remains unexpected but i hold the intention to learn from my reactions as they happen. Now? I believe that I am dedicated to looking at my reactions and owning them for myself. I believe that all my experience serves to uncover unconsciously held beliefs and allow them to be experienced consciously in order that I can decide which beliefs I want to hold. My experience has shown me that the beliefs I hold affect the experience that I recieve and so it makes sense to give myself the chance to hold beliefs which will create the kind of experience that I desire. I want to experience expressing myself as fully as I possibly can. I want to be Esther and Esther alone. I want to cut away any extraneous matter which is not essential to being Esther. Compare The future is seen as a real possibility but not experienced as an actuality. Past Remembering a time when I was called upon to be 100% Esther. Unexpected situations work in both ways. I am open to experiencing those things which came to me unexpectedly in the belief that they will teach me the most about myself. I am asked to sing by one of my housemates. I have been studying singing here as well as other instruments. I was surprised that he wanted me to practice at that time because I was not expecting to or planning to. But he wanted me to practice with him so I said ok. He asks me to sing loudly. I start the piece. He stops me and says no it's not loud enough. He says he wants me to sing as loudly as possible. I start again. He stops me again and says that I do not need to be afraid of singing as loudly as possible. He asks me why I am worried about singing loudly. I say I don't want to disturb others and also there is a difference between shouting and singing and i don't want to end up just shouting. He says yes there is a difference between shouting and singing and demonstrates that it is possible to sing very very loudly but that it is still different from shouting. I try again and he says still not as loud as possible. I get very frustrated and angry with him. I tell him that i think no matter what I do it will not be good enough for him. No matter how loudly I sing I think he will complain that it is still not right. He says no that is not the case. It doesn't work like that and that if I simply sing as loudly as I can that will be good enough. He says he wants me to experience singing without holding anything back. He says he believes that as long as I am singing less than full volume I may believe that I am holding something back. He says that it is not necessarily the case that singing full volume is necessary in order not to be holding back but that in the first case singing with all of my strength might open the door to that experience for me. He says that is all he is asking. All this time I thought that i didn't know how to do it. I was avoiding doing it. But finally I cracked, I was so frustrated with him saying no no no that i thought 'well, I'll just bloody well sing as loudly as I can and that will show him'. So I just opened my mouth and out came this incredibly strong and powerful sound. Just as he said yes yes yes I found myself on the verge of tears. I had to stop singing because i felt so naked and vulnerable. That sound was pure Esther, I wasn't holding anything back. I felt it was the closest thing to me as I had ever experienced. It felt like it was Esther without any unnecessary defences. It was incredibly hard for me to keep going with that level of intensity and I kept stopping and saying 'I can't do it' thinking 'I can't cope with that level of intensity, of being myself, I am just going to burst into tears.' However my housemate was wonderfully encouraging and was just saying 'yes, it's ok, you've done it and you can do it just take a break and come back in again.' I shut my eyes and concentrated on just holding the intention to sing without holding anything back. I managed to get to the end of the piece and he said 'yes, so if you sing like that you know the musicians who play with you will respond to that. They will play better because of that quality, it can be felt. Now- I want to end the session but I feel like I haven't pulled the strands together. I feel like it would take too long to pull it all into one big picture and that I'm too tired. I feel like maybe i've wandered all over the place and got distracted. I need to resolve this question of what happened in my experience with Y tonight. What happens in connection with Y is only important to me because it gives me an experience. The experience is the thing that matters. He has given me a jem of an experience tonight. I experience feeling ignored. I experience feeling rejected. I believe I am ignored and rejected by him. I will continue to work on this when I get home but I am tired and want to get to bed. I could avoid having a personal relationship because it complicates things and intensifies the feelings, the reactions. But I choose to live in the same world as others and to deal with real problems. I desire physical closeness and so I enter into a relationship. It's thorny but meaty, always plenty of grist for that mill. Any kind words gratefully recieved (tell it like it is.) Good night. Esther. I will be back to finish my 24hours! up to 8 hours now. Just to answer your question yes i am in Java as in Indonesia. Been here for 9 months studying music and going home to UK for one month in July then back out here for another year. See you again soon. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1054-1022961402-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 19:56:40 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51Judx16437 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 19:56:39 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1054-1022961402-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 19:56:42 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 19:56:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 6321 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 19:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 19:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 19:56:39 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g51JuTK17223; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 19:56:29 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 19:56:29 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Esther II Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 293 On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, esjwilds wrote: > Thank you for your warm welcome. Here goes session two. Jalan-jalan, Esther! You write like a Dewa - clean, pure and direct. Your session report is amazing, and very moving. Almost unbearably intense. You must be an expert typist to capture so much detail and feeling. Carry on! > Just to answer your question yes i am in Java as in Indonesia. Been > here for 9 months studying music and going home to UK for one month > in July then back out here for another year. Are you in Jogjakarta? > See you again soon. Any time. Hurry back! abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1055-1022963117-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 20:25:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51KPEp07621 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:25:14 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1055-1022963117-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 20:25:18 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 20:25:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 78729 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 20:25:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 20:25:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 20:25:16 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.214]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA27061 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 15:25:07 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020601132125.00fe9da8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 13:21:25 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Esther II Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 294 From: "esjwilds" Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 18:46:46 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Esther II Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology ============== FROM ESTHER ================ Hello, Thank you for your warm welcome. Here goes session two. Where are you now? I am happy that I have had a response to my first posting so quickly. I believe that i have found a place where what I am saying will be heard by people who have the ability to understand what I am talking about, and where I can have a real dialogue. The phrase 'it takes one to know one' comes to my mind. Here I think I can be recognised for what I am and it seems to me that there are others here who are truly SEEKERS and not just THINKERS. Something which has become of fundamental importance to me is to make a distinction between ABSTRACT thoughts and ideas and the ability to relate MY thinking to MY life. I am now in a place where it is my intention to recognise that every thing which comes to me from the external world comes to me as MY EXPERIENCE of that thing. I am now in a place where I believe that the only way I can know anything is through MY EXPERIENCE. I have seen and understood that the division which exists in my thinking about the world - ME and THEM - is a way of denying that all of it is MY EXPERIENCE. It is true that THEY may well exist and have an experience which is seperate to mine, but the only knowledge I have of THEM is that I EXPERIENCE them. I wonder if all my capitals are really rather redundant. For some reason I believe that i have to emphasise certain words as being the ones which hold the most importance. I am afraid that the words may be misunderstood and my intention is to make my meaning as clear as possible. For some reason I am thinking that the use of capitals may make it less likely for my meaning to be misunderstood. For the time being I will trust that I am being as clear as I can and I will relinquish the use of capitals. I am signed on to messenger and I just got a pop-up box saying that Y had just come online. I am surprised and I think he is in the internet place where we usually go. I think it's a shame that I missed him. I think I want to say hello to him and send him a message. I think this might be an interruption. I think that I came to a different internet place to where I normally go and this means i can continue with this session even though I know that Y is online. I think if i had gone to the other place i would have been majorly distracted by his presence. I try to send him a message anyway and he doesn't reply. I am annoyed that he doesn't reply. I want to hear from him. Where might you be? I might be in a place where I remember that all of this is my experience. I might be in a place where I acknowledge that the events which I experience hold importance only because they are the events that I experience. I might be able to remember that I can acknowledge that every thing which comes to me IS mine. I might remind myself that I believe it is not within my experience to know that there is such a place as 'out there' and that 'out there' is seperate to my experience of it. I might be in a place where I do not fear the power this place has to affect me. Compare There are two viewpoints. One of them is disempowering the other is empowering. Now I am relieved that I have the opportunity to choose an empowering viewpoint. I am happy that in the past I went through the experience of questioning how I know that any thing is true or real. I am happy that I have a wide range of experiences to call upon. I am happy that I have given myself the option of questioning things on the most fundamental level. I choose to rely 100% on my personal ability to know myself. I am in a place where the only thing that I know to be real and beyond question is the fact that I am constantly experiencing. In this place there is only one truth- I am constantly experiencing. In this place I believe I do not have to be afraid that my experience is the only thing I have to tell me that there is anything outside of my experience. It is not necessary for me to know if there is anything real outside of my experience. I am relaxing about the effect that Y has on my experience. I believe that he is a neutral symbol. I believe that he mirrors back to me the beliefs that I am unconsciously holding. I believe I need to claim my experience as my own in order to be truly aware. I am in a place where I acknowledge that I can never know him seperate to my experience of him. I recognise that when I think about what he is thinking it remains my thought. I am in a place where I believe that it is necessary for me to be simple and to uncover the essentials, the bare facts of my experience. I remember that I can never be his thought. In this place the only thing which I can know about him is that he confirms the fact that I experience. I experience the sensation of seeing in relation to his body, I experience the sensation of hearing in relation to his words, I experience the sensation of touching in relation to his body. These are the facts that I have in relation to him. Past I imagine him sitting in the other internet place (that is my experience not his.) I transfer that into the belief that he is really sitting there and thinking what i am thinking (but that does not get me anywhere.) I pretend that my thought is his thought (I am in denial.) I give away my resposibility for owning my own thoughts. I think 'I want to say hi to him.' I send him a message. I don't recieve any reply from him. I wonder why he is not responding to my message. I start feeling very uncomfortable. I think maybe he hasn't seen my message- he is new to messenger. I want to make sure that he hasn't just overlooked my message. I close the conversation window and start another one. Still no reply. I do this a third time and still no answer. I come to the conclusion that he is choosing not to reply. I ask the question 'Why doesn't he reply?' My answers come thick and fast-He is ignoring my message. He chooses to ignore me. I think 'I want him to acknowledge me.' I think 'I want to be important to him.' I think 'He doesn't care whether or not I want to communicate with him.' I think 'He is not interested in communicating with me.' I think 'I want him to be interested in communicating with me.' I feel ignored by him. I feel unimportant to him. I feel disregarded by him. I feel uncomfortable. I feel there is nothing further that I can do to get him to respond to me. I don't want to force him to reply if he chooses not to. I resign myself to the fact that he will not reply. I am disappointed. I am resigned. I am thinking 'here we go again.' Another case of chasing after something that I can't have. Wanting more than I deserve, believing that I am important to someone when really I am not. Reaching out for a reassuring hand and then feeling that I was stupid to expect the hand to be there in the first place. Yes, really like I feel it was stupid of me to expect him to reply- why should he? What made me think that he would reply in the first place. I think 'you always assume too much Esther' that is your mistake. You take for granted that someone will want to hear you and then you so often feel that you are reaching for something that you don't deserve. When I reach out and it is not there I feel cut off, I feel this is 'how it really is' this is what it comes down to at the end of the day. This is how I always end up feeling in a relationship- I am asking too much, I am expecting too much. I believe there is a honeymoon period where that person really seems to care about reaching out to me- he sends me lots of text messages. He asks to meet with me. He is reaching out to me- I feel that I am important to him, I feel he wants to spend time with me. But then there is a time when I begin to feel that I am doing all the reaching. I believe that I am the one who is always sending the messages. (interesting music playing in the internet place "I tried to fuck your Mom in the ass, I tried to fuck a fucking pirate in the ass" sometimes cosmic timing is just awesome at breaking up awareness and refocusing- pulling out and away into awareness of the surroundings. Aha, and now 'The wind of change' nice moments of serendipity) Now I want to check and see if he is still online. Guess I have got caught up in identification with the picture here. He has become real for me again and I want to know 'Is he still ignoring me?' Ha ha, but another part of me says why be so stupid Esther. Don't do it, just stop your crazy impulse. But I say I want to know if he is still online and i can do it so please excuse me for a moment- I'm sure it's all part of the process. Aha, very interesting. His status is set to Away. Very nice. So now I know that he is still in the internet place and that he has a reasonable command of the messenger process because he has altered his status. So for the time being I can forget about him ignoring me- he obviously doesn't want to be disturbed for the time being so I can get on with what I am doing and let him get on with what he is doing. I wonder briefly if I should set my status to away, but I am convinced that everything is part of the process, my life IS (whoops a momentary lapse into capital emphasis) the process. There is no separation in my mind. What I am doing now is what I intend to be doing all the time. Boxes stop me from acknowledging that it is what it is at every moment. There is nothing except now, ever. Making boxes can be a dangerous pastime for me, I intend to deal with life (for life read my life- there is no other life for me) Dealing with theories and abstractions prevented me from acknowledging the truth of my experience. Compare Not a lot of difference. The past came through so strongly that it stirred the emotions to exist in the present moment once again. This is a successful way of really understanding what was being experienced as soon as possible after the moment itself. The past becomes the present in order to be felt as fully as possible. Once it becomes a real experience and not just thinking then I can find out exactly what it is, not my theory of the experience. The now is the place where I choose to dig deeper into the experience to get to the root of the uncomfortable feeling. I chose to hold the same beliefs as at that moment when I felt uncomfortable. However in the now I then remind myself that I am engaged in a process. I am aware that I am looking at these feelings, these beliefs for a reason. I can still feel the strength of the emotions stirred up by holding those beliefs but at the same time I am aware in the present moment that I am choosing to hold those beliefs in order to understand better what they are. In the past I am not expecting to feel those emotions, I am not anticipating the moment, it just happens. In the past what happens causes a chain reaction and I end up in a certain place without really being aware of where I am and how I got there. In the now situation I am choosing to hold the same beliefs, to go through the same reactions but this time with the intention of making the process a conscious one rather than an unconscious one. Where might I be? In a place where that time lag does not exist. I might be in a place where I am conscious at the moment where it happens that I am choosing to hold those beliefs in order to know them and understand them with full awareness, and in order to know exactly what they are. I am in a place where the unexpected remains unexpected but i hold the intention to learn from my reactions as they happen. Now? I believe that I am dedicated to looking at my reactions and owning them for myself. I believe that all my experience serves to uncover unconsciously held beliefs and allow them to be experienced consciously in order that I can decide which beliefs I want to hold. My experience has shown me that the beliefs I hold affect the experience that I recieve and so it makes sense to give myself the chance to hold beliefs which will create the kind of experience that I desire. I want to experience expressing myself as fully as I possibly can. I want to be Esther and Esther alone. I want to cut away any extraneous matter which is not essential to being Esther. Compare The future is seen as a real possibility but not experienced as an actuality. Past Remembering a time when I was called upon to be 100% Esther. Unexpected situations work in both ways. I am open to experiencing those things which came to me unexpectedly in the belief that they will teach me the most about myself. I am asked to sing by one of my housemates. I have been studying singing here as well as other instruments. I was surprised that he wanted me to practice at that time because I was not expecting to or planning to. But he wanted me to practice with him so I said ok. He asks me to sing loudly. I start the piece. He stops me and says no it's not loud enough. He says he wants me to sing as loudly as possible. I start again. He stops me again and says that I do not need to be afraid of singing as loudly as possible. He asks me why I am worried about singing loudly. I say I don't want to disturb others and also there is a difference between shouting and singing and i don't want to end up just shouting. He says yes there is a difference between shouting and singing and demonstrates that it is possible to sing very very loudly but that it is still different from shouting. I try again and he says still not as loud as possible. I get very frustrated and angry with him. I tell him that i think no matter what I do it will not be good enough for him. No matter how loudly I sing I think he will complain that it is still not right. He says no that is not the case. It doesn't work like that and that if I simply sing as loudly as I can that will be good enough. He says he wants me to experience singing without holding anything back. He says he believes that as long as I am singing less than full volume I may believe that I am holding something back. He says that it is not necessarily the case that singing full volume is necessary in order not to be holding back but that in the first case singing with all of my strength might open the door to that experience for me. He says that is all he is asking. All this time I thought that i didn't know how to do it. I was avoiding doing it. But finally I cracked, I was so frustrated with him saying no no no that i thought 'well, I'll just bloody well sing as loudly as I can and that will show him'. So I just opened my mouth and out came this incredibly strong and powerful sound. Just as he said yes yes yes I found myself on the verge of tears. I had to stop singing because i felt so naked and vulnerable. That sound was pure Esther, I wasn't holding anything back. I felt it was the closest thing to me as I had ever experienced. It felt like it was Esther without any unnecessary defences. It was incredibly hard for me to keep going with that level of intensity and I kept stopping and saying 'I can't do it' thinking 'I can't cope with that level of intensity, of being myself, I am just going to burst into tears.' However my housemate was wonderfully encouraging and was just saying 'yes, it's ok, you've done it and you can do it just take a break and come back in again.' I shut my eyes and concentrated on just holding the intention to sing without holding anything back. I managed to get to the end of the piece and he said 'yes, so if you sing like that you know the musicians who play with you will respond to that. They will play better because of that quality, it can be felt. Now- I want to end the session but I feel like I haven't pulled the strands together. I feel like it would take too long to pull it all into one big picture and that I'm too tired. I feel like maybe i've wandered all over the place and got distracted. I need to resolve this question of what happened in my experience with Y tonight. What happens in connection with Y is only important to me because it gives me an experience. The experience is the thing that matters. He has given me a jem of an experience tonight. I experience feeling ignored. I experience feeling rejected. I believe I am ignored and rejected by him. I will continue to work on this when I get home but I am tired and want to get to bed. I could avoid having a personal relationship because it complicates things and intensifies the feelings, the reactions. But I choose to live in the same world as others and to deal with real problems. I desire physical closeness and so I enter into a relationship. It's thorny but meaty, always plenty of grist for that mill. Any kind words gratefully recieved (tell it like it is.) Good night. Esther. I will be back to finish my 24hours! up to 8 hours now. Just to answer your question yes i am in Java as in Indonesia. Been here for 9 months studying music and going home to UK for one month in July then back out here for another year. See you again soon. ============== KP REPLIES TO ESTHER ============== Esther: >Hello, > >Thank you for your warm welcome. That was unavoidable! >Here goes session two. Two sessions in two days! Your intention is proven by your DOING NOW! >Where are you now? > >I am happy that I have had a response to my first posting so quickly. I'm happy you posted! >I believe that i have found a place where what I am saying >will be heard by people who have the ability to understand what I am >talking about, and where I can have a real dialogue. The phrase 'it >takes one to know one' comes to my mind. Here I think I can be >recognised for what I am and it seems to me that there are others >here who are truly SEEKERS and not just THINKERS. Speaking for other UCPeons, which IS a dangerous action, *WE* are glad you are here! >Something which >has become of fundamental importance to me is to make a distinction >between ABSTRACT thoughts and ideas and the ability to relate MY >thinking to MY life. I am now in a place where it is my intention to >recognise that every thing which comes to me from the external world >comes to me as MY EXPERIENCE of that thing. Way Cool! >I am now in a place where I believe that the only way I can know >anything is through MY EXPERIENCE. I have seen and understood that >the division which exists in my thinking about the world - ME and >THEM - is a way of denying that all of it is MY EXPERIENCE. It is >true that THEY may well exist and have an experience which is >seperate to mine, but the only knowledge I have of THEM is that I >EXPERIENCE them. I wonder if all my capitals are really rather >redundant. For some reason I believe that i have to emphasise >certain words as being the ones which hold the most importance. Could that be a property of HIGHER AWARENESS itself? >I am afraid that the words may be misunderstood and >my intention is to make my meaning as clear as possible. I UNDERSTAND! >For some reason I am thinking that the use of capitals may >make it less likely for my meaning to be misunderstood. Because insane netcops tell you that you MUST speak in lowercase? >For the time being I will trust that I am being as >clear as I can and I will relinquish the use of capitals. Must you SACRIFICE your preference? I have *NO* problem with your caps! >I am signed on to messenger and I just got a pop-up box saying that Y >had just come online. I am surprised and I think he is in the >internet place where we usually go. I think it's a shame that I >missed him. I think I want to say hello to him and send him a >message. I think this might be an interruption. I think that I came >to a different internet place to where I normally go and this means i >can continue with this session even though I know that Y is online. >I think if i had gone to the other place i would have been majorly >distracted by his presence. I try to send him a message anyway and >he doesn't reply. I am annoyed that he doesn't reply. I want to >hear from him. YES! WHAT IS! IN THE NOW! SESSION "INTERRUPTIONS" AS GRIST FOR THE SESSION MILL! ==================== YOU *GOT* THE KNACK! ==================== >Where might you be? > >I might be in a place where I remember that all of this is my >experience. I might be in a place where I acknowledge that the >events which I experience hold importance only because they are the >events that I experience. I might be able to remember that I can >acknowledge that every thing which comes to me IS mine. I might >remind myself that I believe it is not within my experience to know >that there is such a place as 'out there' and that 'out there' is >seperate to my experience of it. I might be in a place where I do >not fear the power this place has to affect me. > >Compare > >There are two viewpoints. One of them is disempowering the other is >empowering. > >Now > >I am relieved that I have the opportunity to choose an empowering >viewpoint. I am happy that in the past I went through the experience >of questioning how I know that any thing is true or real. I am happy >that I have a wide range of experiences to call upon. I am happy >that I have given myself the option of questioning things on the most >fundamental level. I choose to rely 100% on my personal ability to >know myself. I am in a place where the only thing that I know to be >real and beyond question is the fact that I am constantly >experiencing. In this place there is only one truth- I am constantly >experiencing. In this place I believe I do not have to be afraid >that my experience is the only thing I have to tell me that there is >anything outside of my experience. It is not necessary for me to >know if there is anything real outside of my experience. OK! You have and are now using THE fundamental tool of self examination and understanding! >I am relaxing about the effect that Y has on my experience. I >believe that he is a neutral symbol. I believe that he mirrors back >to me the beliefs that I am unconsciously holding. I believe I need >to claim my experience as my own in order to be truly aware. I am in >a place where I acknowledge that I can never know him seperate to my >experience of him. I recognise that when I think about what he is >thinking it remains my thought. I am in a place where I believe that >it is necessary for me to be simple and to uncover the essentials, >the bare facts of my experience. I believe you are correct! >I remember that I can never be his thought. In this place the only >thing which I can know about him is that he confirms the fact that I >experience. I experience the sensation of seeing in relation to his >body, I experience the sensation of hearing in relation to his words, >I experience the sensation of touching in relation to his body. >These are the facts that I have in relation to him. > >Past I believe that you can experience someone else's experience just as they do. We call it telepathy. >I imagine him sitting in the other internet place (that is my >experience not his.) I transfer that into the belief that he is >really sitting there and thinking what i am thinking (but that does >not get me anywhere.) I pretend that my thought is his thought (I am >in denial.) I give away my resposibility for owning my own >thoughts. I think 'I want to say hi to him.' I send him a message. >I don't recieve any reply from him. I wonder why he is not >responding to my message. I start feeling very uncomfortable. I >think maybe he hasn't seen my message- he is new to messenger. I >want to make sure that he hasn't just overlooked my message. I close >the conversation window and start another one. Still no reply. I do >this a third time and still no answer. I come to the conclusion that >he is choosing not to reply. I ask the question 'Why doesn't he >reply?' My answers come thick and fast-He is ignoring my message. >He chooses to ignore me. I think 'I want him to acknowledge me.' I >think 'I want to be important to him.' I think 'He doesn't care >whether or not I want to communicate with him.' I think 'He is not >interested in communicating with me.' I think 'I want him to be >interested in communicating with me.' I feel ignored by him. I feel >unimportant to him. I feel disregarded by him. I feel >uncomfortable. I feel there is nothing further that I can do to get >him to respond to me. I don't want to force him to reply if he >chooses not to. I resign myself to the fact that he will not reply. >I am disappointed. I am resigned. I am thinking 'here we go >again.' Another case of chasing after something that I can't have. >Wanting more than I deserve, believing that I am important to someone >when really I am not. Reaching out for a reassuring hand and then >feeling that I was stupid to expect the hand to be there in the first >place. Yes, really like I feel it was stupid of me to expect him to >reply- why should he? What made me think that he would reply in the >first place. I think 'you always assume too much Esther' that is >your mistake. You take for granted that someone will want to hear >you and then you so often feel that you are reaching for something >that you don't deserve. When I reach out and it is not there I feel >cut off, I feel this is 'how it really is' this is what it comes down >to at the end of the day. This is how I always end up feeling in a >relationship- I am asking too much, I am expecting too much. I >believe there is a honeymoon period where that person really seems to >care about reaching out to me- he sends me lots of text messages. He >asks to meet with me. He is reaching out to me- I feel that I am >important to him, I feel he wants to spend time with me. But then >there is a time when I begin to feel that I am doing all the >reaching. I believe that I am the one who is always sending the >messages. (interesting music playing in the internet place "I tried >to fuck your Mom in the ass, I tried to fuck a fucking pirate in the >ass" sometimes cosmic timing is just awesome at breaking up awareness >and refocusing- pulling out and away into awareness of the >surroundings. Aha, and now 'The wind of change' nice moments of >serendipity) Bravo! An extraordinary tour of WHAT IS NOW from you! >Now > >I want to check and see if he is still online. Guess I have got >caught up in identification with the picture here. He has become >real for me again and I want to know 'Is he still ignoring me?' Ha >ha, but another part of me says why be so stupid Esther. Don't do >it, just stop your crazy impulse. But I say I want to know if he is >still online and i can do it so please excuse me for a moment- I'm >sure it's all part of the process. Aha, very interesting. His status >is set to Away. Very nice. So now I know that he is still in the >internet place and that he has a reasonable command of the messenger >process because he has altered his status. So for the time being I >can forget about him ignoring me- he obviously doesn't want to be >disturbed for the time being so I can get on with what I am doing and >let him get on with what he is doing. I wonder briefly if I should >set my status to away, but I am convinced that everything is part of >the process, my life IS (whoops a momentary lapse into capital >emphasis) the process. There is no separation in my mind. What I am >doing now is what I intend to be doing all the time. Boxes stop me >from acknowledging that it is what it is at every moment. There is >nothing except now, ever. Making boxes can be a dangerous pastime >for me, I intend to deal with life (for life read my life- there is >no other life for me) Dealing with theories and abstractions >prevented me from acknowledging the truth of my experience. > >Compare > >Not a lot of difference. The past came through so strongly that it >stirred the emotions to exist in the present moment once again. This >is a successful way of really understanding what was being >experienced as soon as possible after the moment itself. The past >becomes the present in order to be felt as fully as possible. Once >it becomes a real experience and not just thinking then I can find >out exactly what it is, not my theory of the experience. The now is >the place where I choose to dig deeper into the experience to get to >the root of the uncomfortable feeling. I chose to hold the same >beliefs as at that moment when I felt uncomfortable. However in the >now I then remind myself that I am engaged in a process. I am aware >that I am looking at these feelings, these beliefs for a reason. I >can still feel the strength of the emotions stirred up by holding >those beliefs but at the same time I am aware in the present moment >that I am choosing to hold those beliefs in order to understand >better what they are. In the past I am not expecting to feel those >emotions, I am not anticipating the moment, it just happens. In the >past what happens causes a chain reaction and I end up in a certain >place without really being aware of where I am and how I got there. >In the now situation I am choosing to hold the same beliefs, to go >through the same reactions but this time with the intention of making >the process a conscious one rather than an unconscious one. Bravo! >Where might I be? > >In a place where that time lag does not exist. I might be in a place >where I am conscious at the moment where it happens that I am >choosing to hold those beliefs in order to know them and understand >them with full awareness, and in order to know exactly what they >are. I am in a place where the unexpected remains unexpected but i >hold the intention to learn from my reactions as they happen. > >Now? > >I believe that I am dedicated to looking at my reactions and owning >them for myself. I believe that all my experience serves to uncover >unconsciously held beliefs and allow them to be experienced >consciously in order that I can decide which beliefs I want to hold. >My experience has shown me that the beliefs I hold affect the >experience that I recieve and so it makes sense to give myself the >chance to hold beliefs which will create the kind of experience that >I desire. I want to experience expressing myself as fully as I >possibly can. I want to be Esther and Esther alone. I want to cut >away any extraneous matter which is not essential to being Esther. You are DOING that in the MOST efficient way known! >Compare > >The future is seen as a real possibility but not experienced as an >actuality. > >Past > >Remembering a time when I was called upon to be 100% Esther. As YOU are now calling upon . . . yourself! For the very best you have to offer . . . yourself! . . . AND ALL THE REST OF US! I thank you! >Unexpected situations work in both ways. I am open to experiencing >those things which came to me unexpectedly in the belief that they >will teach me the most about myself. I am asked to sing by one of my >housemates. I have been studying singing here as well as other >instruments. I was surprised that he wanted me to practice at that >time because I was not expecting to or planning to. But he wanted me >to practice with him so I said ok. He asks me to sing loudly. I >start the piece. He stops me and says no it's not loud enough. He >says he wants me to sing as loudly as possible. I start again. He >stops me again and says that I do not need to be afraid of singing as >loudly as possible. He asks me why I am worried about singing >loudly. I say I don't want to disturb others and also there is a >difference between shouting and singing and i don't want to end up >just shouting. He says yes there is a difference between shouting >and singing and demonstrates that it is possible to sing very very >loudly but that it is still different from shouting. I try again and >he says still not as loud as possible. I get very frustrated and >angry with him. I tell him that i think no matter what I do it will >not be good enough for him. No matter how loudly I sing I think he >will complain that it is still not right. He says no that is not the >case. It doesn't work like that and that if I simply sing as loudly >as I can that will be good enough. He says he wants me to experience >singing without holding anything back. He says he believes that as >long as I am singing less than full volume I may believe that I am >holding something back. He says that it is not necessarily the case >that singing full volume is necessary in order not to be holding back >but that in the first case singing with all of my strength might open >the door to that experience for me. He says that is all he is >asking. All this time I thought that i didn't know how to do it. I >was avoiding doing it. But finally I cracked, I was so frustrated >with him saying no no no that i thought 'well, I'll just bloody well >sing as loudly as I can and that will show him'. So I just opened my >mouth and out came this incredibly strong and powerful sound. Just >as he said yes yes yes I found myself on the verge of tears. I had >to stop singing because i felt so naked and vulnerable. That sound >was pure Esther, I wasn't holding anything back. I felt it was the >closest thing to me as I had ever experienced. It felt like it was >Esther without any unnecessary defences. It was incredibly hard for >me to keep going with that level of intensity and I kept stopping and >saying 'I can't do it' thinking 'I can't cope with that level of >intensity, of being myself, I am just going to burst into tears.' I think I'm in love! >However my housemate was wonderfully encouraging and was just >saying 'yes, it's ok, you've done it and you can do it just take a >break and come back in again.' I shut my eyes and concentrated on >just holding the intention to sing without holding anything back. I >managed to get to the end of the piece and he said 'yes, so if you >sing like that you know the musicians who play with you will respond >to that. They will play better because of that quality, it can be felt. ============ I FELT IT TOO! ============ Your choice of friends is extraordinarily good! >Now- > >I want to end the session but I feel like I haven't pulled the >strands together. OK! This might be a good time to LOOK at the chart and compare what you have just seen in session to the abstract universal levels described there. PUT YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IN THE *UNIVERSAL* PERSPECTIVE! >I feel like it would take too long to pull it all >into one big picture and that I'm too tired. OK! >I feel like maybe i've wandered all over the place and got distracted. Wandered all over WITHOUT being distracted from SEEING where you are NOW, I believe. >I need to resolve >this question of what happened in my experience with Y tonight. What >happens in connection with Y is only important to me because it gives >me an experience. The experience is the thing that matters. He has >given me a jem of an experience tonight. I experience feeling >ignored. I experience feeling rejected. I believe I am ignored and >rejected by him. I will continue to work on this when I get home but >I am tired and want to get to bed. Way Cool! >I could avoid having a personal relationship because it complicates >things and intensifies the feelings, the reactions. But I choose to >live in the same world as others and to deal with real problems. I >desire physical closeness and so I enter into a relationship. It's >thorny but meaty, always plenty of grist for that mill. > >Any kind words gratefully recieved (tell it like it is.) I KEEP thinking I'm in love! >Good night. VERY Good! >Esther. > > >I will be back to finish my 24hours! > >up to 8 hours now. Way Cool! >Just to answer your question yes i am in Java as in Indonesia. Been >here for 9 months studying music and going home to UK for one month >in July then back out here for another year. Isn't that the home of the incredible gamelon orchestras? A superb reason to be in Indonesia! >See you again soon. EXTRA WAY COOL! *THANKS* for posting! WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! 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YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1056-1022975636-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 23:53:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51Nrrj12567 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 23:53:53 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1056-1022975636-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 23:53:56 -0000 X-Sender: ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 23:53:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 22999 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 23:53:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 23:53:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 23:53:55 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g51Nrkf23873; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 23:53:46 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020601113617.0116baa0@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Alexander Kxpke X-Yahoo-Profile: ucpalex MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 23:53:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 295 On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 11:36:17 -0700 > From: Net Prophet > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation > > > > Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation > > [Posted to: > [emailist: "UCP-list" > [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology > > > KP > >> When you really don't care > >> what I think of you one way > >> or another, you can look back > >> and compare to where you are > >> now, and you'll be a UCPeon then. > >> > >> Most of the UCPeons don't care much > >> what I think, although what they think > >> about my opinions might be important. > > > Alexander Kopke: > >I care about what you think, KP! > > Cool! > > >IMO you have a strong tendency to be > >right about the things that you talk about. > > YOU must be right about that! :-) > > >You are a bodhisattva. There are very few of them here on earth. > > Yes. > > But our club just launched > a global membership drive! > > Only you can keep yourself from joining! I don't wanna be doing that! > >Listening to what a bodhisattva has to say is certainly not the worst > >thing to do. > > No. And COMPARING his viewpoint to yours can be extraordinarily beneficial. Yes. > >Many people may be disturbed by your flaming.... well, they just > >aren't used to dealing with persons who say what they think. 80) > > Yes. > > Perhaps because they are still pretending to think what > they have been taught is politically correct or acceptable. This would be the chapter: school! If you are nice and do as we tell you to you'll get an A(++?) if not you'll get an F. Subtitle:when you get an important job remember what the school told you and you'll get loads of money. You don't have to worry about cash or your conscience, the system will do that for you. > >Of course one shouldn't by default agree with bodhisattvas, > > YES! That is a more accurate statement than mine above. > > >one still has to see it through their own products of thought, but listening > >and duplicating are activities which carry great benefits in itself. > > Yes. > > >TT#29 is my favourite. It's beautiful! I wasn't able to > >duplicate what it was about when I read it the first time. Now I do. > > Way Cool! > > Thanks! > > I reread it. > > WE *ARE* DOING with UCPlist and alt.ucp > some of the things envisioned in Full Circle! And that's the beautiful part of it!! Everytime I read about another UCPeon going full circle it's like getting full circle on multipli plans. It's one of the most beautiful experiences I know of. I understand!! I duplicate!! > The more of us there are, > the better it is working . . . At first there was YOU. YOU made people listen through your wise words. Now there is WE. Now WE are working on taking it the next level. > I was very charmed to see several UCPeons > independently correcting misrepresentations > and misunderstanding of basic UCP recently. They can only have done that because they had done UCP full circle. That is the only way of seeing what UCP does. After some sessions now I at first seem bruised and hurt. This the where I am confronted with dark sides of me. It's not easy to look at but I look and during normally a couple of days I integrate it into my life. > It's SO pleasant NOT to be the only > one who knows what is happening! Yes. You are not alone in the universe anymore. > >Best Wishes, > > > >Alexander K. > > > >ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org > >SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org > > I'm very impressed you have mastered unix and the > lonestar box enough to shift your net identity there! Don't be. I've still got long way to go. Once I got validated as a user it has become very easy. You won't believe how easy it is to navigate through arrow keys and short cuts. pine is an email program which is very easy to use. One can always write help and a bunch of easy to use commands appear. The rest is just error and trial. > Perhaps you could check out mailman at http://www.list.org/ > Alex Buksdork might like to shift the UCPlist to mailman if he > had some expert guidance on unix and the lonestar box. > That would get rid of our yahoo crap and be more flexible. Sounds like a very good idea. I'll check out list.org and report back when I've got news worth mentioning. > Thanks for DOING! Thank YOU for HAVING DONE AND STILL DOING!! > WE'LCOME TO > *ACTUALLITY!* > > THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR > ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! > > RESET YOUR SELF! > REBOOT YOUR MIND! > RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS > REINSTALL RATIONALITY > DEBUG AND UPGRADE > YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING > SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! > N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* > > YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY > FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. > > FIND OUT HOW > TO *FIND OUT!* > > WHAT YOU DO > IS UP TO YOU! > > THE WAY > TO *SEE* > *IS* UCP! > > *DO* UCP > AND SEE! > > > O > --- ) > \ > > > Konchok Penday > > Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER > Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm > Formulator and Disseminator of the > Universal Conscious Practice: > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev > Technical hExcellence Award :-) > Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: > http://net-prophet.net/gc/ > Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: > http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ > REvolutionary Architectural System: > http://net-prophet.net/subs/ > Better Banjo Bureau > http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ > Cottage Industries > http://net-prophet.net/ci/ > > > ########################################### > > N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! > WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! > YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > > *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! > *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! > > YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! > USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! > > UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS > SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, > ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! > > ########################################### > > > Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via > paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! > > GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net > RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! > EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! > UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! > > UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology > ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! > Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm > KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. > > UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > > "UCP EMAIL LIST" > To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: > http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1057-1022975840-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jun 1 23:57:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g51NvGj15181 for ; Sat, 1 Jun 2002 23:57:16 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1057-1022975840-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 23:57:20 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 1 Jun 2002 23:57:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 25213 invoked from network); 1 Jun 2002 23:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 1 Jun 2002 23:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.85) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Jun 2002 23:57:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.175] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Jun 2002 23:57:19 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 23:57:18 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 296 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Fri, 31 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > > > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > > To understand mind of an acid-tripper just take some acid yersef. > > > That one is a no-brainer. > > > > I meant while staying sober :) > > You might want to take a look at that ;) > > Ever felt like that before? Like what?? Not being able to understand what acid-tripping is all about? No, I took the approach you suggest in your previous email =) It took a few dozens of hours of processing (and several years of living) to integrate the experience. People who do not take drugs has a very little chance of understanding what drugs are all about. I only know of one person who was able to do that :) Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1058-1022980685-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 01:18:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g521I2G23043 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 01:18:02 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1058-1022980685-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 01:18:05 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 01:18:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 91400 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 01:18:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 01:18:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 01:18:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.173] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 01:18:04 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <00a601c2099a$07f36380$258e7ed4@oemcomputer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 01:18:04 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] [UCP List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 297 --- In ucplist@y..., "Neal Pardoe" wrote: > Oleg stated; > > It's hard > > to appreciate what's going on in a mind of some Papua native, or in a > > mind of someone tripping on acid, or in a mind of a person you > > disdain. > > That may be where you are now, but is not true for me. I found particularly > following tone 5 integration that that is just not the case. A whole area of > understanding opened up for me, allowing me to see so clearly what mankind > is doing, in all the many and varied demonstrations of the emotional tones. > In fact it becomes 'painfully' obvious! And all the time through the > territory prior to this point, I desperately wanted to understand more, how > the tones worked, what makes people 'tick' etc. I lost interest in that > after rising above death. It re-emerged as I stated above. Interestingly, I actually went through a similar phase. Somewhat compulsive empathy. I was not extremely interested in what makes people "tick" but their emotions were a bit too painfully obvious. Did not make socializing any more pleasant, because you get to sense some very carefully hidden low tones. Btw Leo Tolstoy was like that all his life (just read his novels. Social veneer was driving him straight up the wall). By the way, very often people hide their tone level from you mostly for your benefit. It's misguided but they think that they should worry you with something they themselves cannot handle. > > Oleg again; > >Perhaps. I stumbled on the approach while doing normal UCP. > >At that moment it became quite clear that people are not-being just > >as frequently as being. > > That is very true, and particularly around the BEING NOTHING band, > accompanied by the compulsion to contribute (MUST BE CONTRIBUTED TO). > > Or one becomes aware of a whole area that does not *seem* to be addressed by > UCP, which must be controlled, or MUST BE CONFRONTED! I understand where are you coming from and I know you mean well... ...but for some odd reason, many people are tring to make me confront stuff that they perceive in my postings and tell me where I am. That's ok, I don't mind. But when they also say "You shouldn't *force* looking, you should address what your attention is already on"... It's starts to get ironic :) By the way it does not mean I reject what you are saying and suggesting. You may very well be right. I do take note. But I'll go by what I feel is right, m'kay? > > I had a similar experience when I became keenly aware of what I still > thought of as GPM's. And started looking at wordings that would help > *directly* address this area with UCP. I did get to see the futility of > that! One has goals in life is TRUE. They are not really any different from > any other *life* experience, apart from the potential lengevity. I did not > need to observe them as *GPM constructs*. They resolve just as any > compulsive/irrational content from our past experience, with standard UCP. Here I agree totally. There are GPMs. That's for sure, cuz I saw them :) Indeed the only difference between them and a mundane goal, "to wake up tomorrow before 9am" is the scope. And yes, they are handled by UCP prettyy damn well. An interesting twist is that while simple mundane goals are often yours, GPMs (at least the ones I encountered) tend to belong to false beingnesses. > > Do not be surprised that as one progresses through the territory, that one > cannot help but display beingness with the colour of the emotional tone. yes, I don't see anything wrong with that. > Like when one hits the EFFORT band, sessions can become extremely difficult > to actually DO! Life becomes an effort! We see the effort in everything > around us. That's about how it often goes for me but I know where it coems from. If that happens I go to a gym or a martial arts class where I get all the effort I want and then some. Then I come home, relax and do some UCP :) Effort can be quite enjoyable! > Lets face it Oleg, you have found something unique - that works - UCP! > One > becomes startlingly AWARE of many things during the journey. One of those > might be that there is indeed many people around 'not-being' many things. > The fact that you may not have seen this before, or been so keenly aware of > it does not make it into a new area that needs its own special handling. > That would be SUBSTITUTING something else for UCP. It was not exactly like that. It was more that liek : "Where you can be?" "Anywhere but a street bum" So then it feels right to look at "being a street bum", "being things other than street bum" and even "disdain for street bums" Since I have hard time comparing 4 things at once, I do it in several passes. That's what the extra question signifies. > > BEINGNESS REFLECTS EMOTIONAL TONE. How about EMOTIONAL TONE IS A PART OF BEINGNESS? :) > > Enjoy it and learn what you can. :) Exacty! Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1059-1022986500-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 02:54:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g522suO04837 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 02:54:56 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1059-1022986500-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 02:55:00 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 02:55:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 35748 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 02:55:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 02:55:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 02:54:59 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.152] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 02:54:59 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 02:54:56 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Notes Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 298 (Highlights from a session, somewhat edited and rearranged) In both cases you look at whatever your attention is at. It's a tautology. In both cases you compare your memories and imagination to your observations. In both cases you talk to other people (unless you are doing UCP solo) In UCP you accept whatever you see. In life you often accept only what you want to see. In life you do something about what you encounter. In UCP you just take note of what it is. UCP, meditation and so on create new understanding, but not necessarily new experience. Simple living creates new experiences galore but not new understanding. Sometimes people want to get up the scale and sometimes they want to get down the scale. Former gives power, the latter gives experience. Neither way is wrong. Buddists tell you a story about teacher who told two of his best pupils "be like a cloud and be freed by your spontaneous wisdom". One of them got enlightened and became one of the buddhas and the other one lived a life of depravity and then became a terrifying god named Rudra. You get to see them both when you die. Then the Buddhists explain to you that both of them are states of your mind. These ways are like Yin and Yang. They grow into each other and balance each other. As soon as you get new ability, you want to use it to have new experiences. To get an ability you need to look at your experiences. Power is cause, experience is , of course, effect. Both imply there's something to be a cause over or an effect of. Cause creates and effect and effect is caused. One is a flip side of the other. Is it a ball that hits the wall or its the wall that hits the ball? There's just some relationship, while labels "effect" and "cause" are just that - labels. When someone asks "Who are you?" , answer "me!" and then, if you wish, ask yourself that question again. It doesn't mean anything anyway. best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1060-1022989954-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 03:52:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g523qUp15489 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 03:52:30 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1060-1022989954-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 03:52:34 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 03:52:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 67730 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 03:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 03:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 03:52:33 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g523qNh24601; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 03:52:23 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 03:52:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 299 On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > On Fri, 31 May 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > > > > > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > > > > To understand mind of an acid-tripper just take some acid > yersef. > > > > That one is a no-brainer. > > > > > > I meant while staying sober :) > > > > You might want to take a look at that ;) > > > > Ever felt like that before? > > Like what?? Not being able to understand what acid-tripping is all > about? I was suggesting look at feeling that not staying sober is too big a price for understanding. Something like that. I can't seem to say it better right now. Oh, I got it: staying sober is worth more than understanding. > No, I took the approach you suggest in your previous email =) What approach are you referring to ??? > It took a few dozens of hours of processing (and several years of > living) to integrate the experience. > > People who do not take drugs has a very little chance of > understanding what drugs are all about. I only know of one person who > was able to do that :) Yes. Also people wo DO take drugs have very little chance of understanding what drugs are about. Once in a while someone on drugs will catch that they are not the movie; they are who is running the film. People not on drugs do the same thing. In one of the sutras, Gautama asks a monk how the reached the state of supreme transcendental enlightenment. The monk says, it just struck me wading through the river that I was not getting wet! Best, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1061-1022992065-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 04:27:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g524Rfk25423 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 04:27:41 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1061-1022992065-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 04:27:46 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 04:27:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 11145 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 04:27:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 04:27:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.83) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 04:27:45 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.186] by n27.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 04:27:45 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 04:27:43 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 300 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > I was suggesting look at feeling that not staying sober is too big a > price for understanding. Something like that. I can't seem to say it > better right now. > > Oh, I got it: staying sober is worth more than understanding. Hmmmm.... no, Not my thing :) I guess some people do things like that, but i don't see sobriety vs. understanding as a competitors. You take drugs - well, to experience high. To understand, you look. Different things. I was referring to the rather common phenomenon of not being able to relate sober state and acid-tripping state from either one of them. When you are sober you cannot imagine how it is to trip and when you are tripping being sober is just as alien. You have to do a lot of integration to put them together. > > > No, I took the approach you suggest in your previous email =) > > What approach are you referring to ??? Taking acid to understand an acid tripper :) > > > It took a few dozens of hours of processing (and several years of > > living) to integrate the experience. > > > > People who do not take drugs has a very little chance of > > understanding what drugs are all about. I only know of one person who > > was able to do that :) > > Yes. Also people wo DO take drugs have very little chance of > understanding what drugs are about. At least they have SOME chance. A person who have seen a car has a slight advantage over the person who haven't when it comes to understanding cars. > > Once in a while someone on drugs will catch that they are not the movie; > they are who is running the film. People not on drugs do the same thing. To a certain degree, yes. However, with some drugs the notions of "Me" , "Running" and "Movie" don't even apply. I don't know what words do apply. Since people who have invented English weren't using acid all the time English is not very suitable for describing intense acid trips :) (which neatly returns me to the topic of the discussion) > In one of the sutras, Gautama asks a monk how the reached the state of > supreme transcendental enlightenment. The monk says, it just struck me > wading through the river that I was not getting wet! Hm. Either I don't get it or he is talking about "I am not body" sort of enlightement. That's pretty cool, but supreme transcendental?! best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1062-1022996156-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 05:35:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g525Zqk17234 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 05:35:52 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1062-1022996156-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 05:35:56 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 05:35:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 12341 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 05:35:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 05:35:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 05:35:55 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g525Zjh11989; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 05:35:45 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 05:35:45 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 301 On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > > I was suggesting look at feeling that not staying sober is too big a > > price for understanding. Something like that. I can't seem to say it > > better right now. > > > > Oh, I got it: staying sober is worth more than understanding. > > Hmmmm.... no, Not my thing :) I guess some people do things like > that, but i don't see sobriety vs. understanding as a competitors. > You take drugs - well, to experience high. To understand, you look. > Different things. Oh. Different objectives. Some people take acid and other mind-expanders to learn something. > I was referring to the rather common phenomenon of not being able to > relate sober state and acid-tripping state from either one of them. > When you are sober you cannot imagine how it is to trip and when you > are tripping being sober is just as alien. You have to do a lot of > integration to put them together. Oh. Who? > > > No, I took the approach you suggest in your previous email =) > > > > What approach are you referring to ??? > > Taking acid to understand an acid tripper :) Oh. Did you learn anything? > > > It took a few dozens of hours of processing (and several years of > > > living) to integrate the experience. Sounds like a heavy trip! > > > People who do not take drugs has a very little chance of > > > understanding what drugs are all about. I only know of one person > who > > > was able to do that :) > > > > Yes. Also people wo DO take drugs have very little chance of > > understanding what drugs are about. > > At least they have SOME chance. A person who have seen a car has a > slight advantage over the person who haven't when it comes to > understanding cars. The initial advantage may be of very short duration. No? Ram Dass told of going to be with his guru in India. He took along 3 or 4 doses of acid just in case he should want to do some tripping. His guru found out and asked him for some. Ram Dass gave him one of the pills. The guru kept waving his hand, saying come on - come on! He took the whole supply and swallowed it instantly. Ram Dass thought the guy would drop to the floor but he kept up the conversation, saying periodically, "Interesting!" "Interesting!" Finally, after hours of this, the guru said, I really don't see what you take this stuff for. > > Once in a while someone on drugs will catch that they are not the > movie; > > they are who is running the film. People not on drugs do the same > thing. > > To a certain degree, yes. > However, with some drugs the notions of "Me" , "Running" and "Movie" > don't even apply. I don't know what words do apply. Unconsious? Conscious of being Unconscious? Unconscious of being Unconscious? > Since people who have invented English weren't using acid all the > time English is not very suitable for describing intense acid trips :) > (which neatly returns me to the topic of the discussion) The Sumerians did. They were into mushrooms. Read John M.Allegro, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. He's a scholar of ancient languages. > > In one of the sutras, Gautama asks a monk how the reached the state > of > > supreme transcendental enlightenment. The monk says, it just struck > me > > wading through the river that I was not getting wet! > > Hm. Either I don't get it or he is talking about "I am not body" sort > of enlightement. That's pretty cool, but supreme transcendental?! The old sutras are rather flowery language, and the first translations, which I cut my teeth on tended to be literal. So that's how it come out when I quote from memory. The Zen masters cut to the bone: Your ordinary mind is the Buddha! Nirvana is Samsara ! > best, > Oleg Best, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1063-1022997861-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 06:04:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.65]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g5264Hk10196 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 06:04:17 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1063-1022997861-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 06:04:21 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 06:04:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 17963 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 06:04:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 06:04:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 06:04:19 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g52649n24862; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 06:04:09 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020601095652.0116baa0@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 06:04:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Septic Tank? Maintenance Tips 7367yVYV1-185qsnEl16 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 302 On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Dear Abner > > You have a very creative sense of humor! > > And your spam souffle is marvelous! > > > KP Dear KP, I'm glad you found it tasty! I was in stitches when I wrote it. Then when I got yr message and realized someone else thought it was funny, I began to line charge on it. I just kept reading it over and over roaring uncontrollably. When I quit doing that, my mind kept rolling it verbatim. It was really dumb! Since my attention was stuck on it I resolved to take a look at it. But first I went to see a lady who had just been informed that her husband is dying. When I finally got to run it, it was about frustration with this other group I have been contributing to. All my gifts have been denied, ruined, ignored, invalidated, rejected, stolen, or reduced. Compared to this list, where so far my contributions have been appreciated, met with interest, enjoyment, intelligence, humor, understanding and feedback. So there was a lot of relief in this. Thanks for telling me that. abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1064-1023013701-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 10:28:18 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52ASH809651 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 10:28:17 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1064-1023013701-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 10:28:21 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 10:28:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 32036 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 10:28:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 10:28:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 10:28:20 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.165] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 10:28:20 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 10:28:16 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 303 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > > Hmmmm.... no, Not my thing :) I guess some people do things like > > that, but i don't see sobriety vs. understanding as a competitors. > > You take drugs - well, to experience high. To understand, you look. > > Different things. > > Oh. Different objectives. > Some people take acid and other mind-expanders to learn something. You can get high *and* look. Then you learn something. Mind-expanders can certainly open up new vistas. > > > I was referring to the rather common phenomenon of not being able to > > relate sober state and acid-tripping state from either one of them. > > When you are sober you cannot imagine how it is to trip and when you > > are tripping being sober is just as alien. You have to do a lot of > > integration to put them together. > > Oh. Who? Me and most other people I discussed acid with. > > > > > No, I took the approach you suggest in your previous email =) > > > > > > What approach are you referring to ??? > > > > Taking acid to understand an acid tripper :) > > Oh. Did you learn anything? A *lot*. Way more than I expected. > > > > It took a few dozens of hours of processing (and several years of > > > > living) to integrate the experience. > > Sounds like a heavy trip! As heavy as they get. Major case of miscalculating your dosage :) > > At least they have SOME chance. A person who have seen a car has a > > slight advantage over the person who haven't when it comes to > > understanding cars. > > The initial advantage may be of very short duration. No? Not if you actually learn. Then the advantage is with you for good. It all depends on your temperament, open-mindedness, external circumstances and so on. Some people who live by the sea never learn swimming, but if you take a person who has never seen ocean and throw him into it, he will learn fast or he will drown. Taking drugs is a lot like being thrown into deep water. Does it give you an advantage? > > Ram Dass told of going to be with his guru in India. He took along 3 or > 4 doses of acid just in case he should want to do some tripping. His guru > found out and asked him for some. Ram Dass gave him one of the pills. > The guru kept waving his hand, saying come on - come on! He took the > whole supply and swallowed it instantly. Ram Dass thought the guy would > drop to the floor but he kept up the conversation, saying periodically, > "Interesting!" "Interesting!" Finally, after hours of this, the guru > said, I really don't see what you take this stuff for. A healthy person might not appreciate the value of antibiotics. By the way, I don't know what kind of stuff all these people (for I have heard the same story being told about the Beatles) were getting but it is perfectly possible to have a normal conversation of 4 tabs of fairly strong acid. To outsiders one will appear a little spaced out but by no means freaky or comatose (while from inside the entire Universe might be going to pieces). I have seen that done a few times and done it myself. So make it 20 for believability :) > > > > Once in a while someone on drugs will catch that they are not the > > movie; > > > they are who is running the film. People not on drugs do the same > > thing. > > > > To a certain degree, yes. > > However, with some drugs the notions of "Me" , "Running" and "Movie" > > don't even apply. I don't know what words do apply. > > Unconsious? Conscious of being Unconscious? Unconscious of being > Unconscious? Very much conscious. But also very differently conscious. IMHO, Cause and effect - "Me running a film" - is peculiar to only a certain type of consciousness, the one we are using in our daily lives. There are other types. You can perhaps, say it is conscious of unconsious, but thatlike saying hippos are big pigs. You are right but you didn't quite nail it down. > > > Since people who have invented English weren't using acid all the > > time English is not very suitable for describing intense acid trips :) > > (which neatly returns me to the topic of the discussion) > > The Sumerians did. They were into mushrooms. Read John M.Allegro, The > Sacred Mushroom and the Cross. He's a scholar of ancient languages. We aren't using Sumerian here, are we? :) If I knew that language, perhaps I could fluently describe all my acid trips: "It was just common b'rdul and then it turned into two magnificient hal-krds'wa" > > The Zen masters cut to the bone: Your ordinary mind is the Buddha! > > Nirvana is Samsara ! I was trying to say something like that in a couple of my posts, but Zen masters do it much better :) Or as a friend of mine once putit "How do you know you are not enlightened?" Best, Oleh ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1065-1023028590-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 14:36:26 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52EaQO24447 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:36:26 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1065-1023028590-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 14:36:30 -0000 X-Sender: esjwilds@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 14:36:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 91060 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 14:36:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 14:36:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.89) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 14:36:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.162] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 14:36:28 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "esjwilds" X-Originating-IP: 203.130.205.227 X-Yahoo-Profile: esjwilds MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:36:27 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Esther III Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 304 Hello again. It's time for session three. Where are you now? It's so much fun to feel like I'm not doing this on my own. Thank you so much for the feedback. I am happy that I moved to a different internet cafe because I couldn't get signed into yahoo groups in the other place and I wanted to make my posting. It means so much to me that what I say - the truth about what is going on with me- is heard and accepted by others. I am surprised that you are so interested to read my postings but glad too. I am very glad to read your replies. Where could you be? Commenting on my respsonse to the replies with greater depth. Writing my response immediately after reading the replies themselves. Compare In the future scene I will be more accurately communicating my response to others. In the future scene my response is heartfelt and intimately connected with my reading of the comments made by others. Now I am thinking that I read the two responses to my previous post (Esther II) about 25 mins ago and felt extremely moved by them. Now I am thinking that I should have written a response at that time and then it would have been a direct translation of what I was feeling. Now I am feeling that I have missed my chance to communicate the strength of my feeling from reading your comments. Now I am remembering that the reason I didn't write my response immediately is that I was unable to sign in to Yahoo groups and the technology was preventing me from responding directly. In the future scene I am feeling the result of believing that there is a true dialogue happening. Now I am thinking that I do not need to re-read the posts in order to re-capture the feelings. Past As I read your posts...I am really being heard. I am really being understood. I am really COMMUNICATING!!!!!!!! And best of all, others really want to communicate with me- no matter what I am, just because I am being me. I feel appreciated. I feel that i am being accepted as I am. I have tears in my eyes. I feel loved. I feel that I am being reassured that it is ok to be me. I feel that I am lucky to have found such a place. I feel that this is so much better than doing it alone. Compare Now I am being me in this new present moment again. No longer intending to respond to your posts but thinking about what is going on with me now not then. Future I could be looking at the feelings I had in connection with my response to believing that Y was online again but status set to away when I signed on at the beginning of my first session today. Compare In the future scene I am giving myself the chance to replay the strong feelings that I went through in the past moment whilst holding the intention to be 100% conscious of the nature of that experience. In the present moment I feel that there are parts of that experience which are still residing in my unconscious mind. In the future scene I get to the point where I am satisfied that there is no part of that experience left clogging up my unconscious mind. In the future scene I get to the point where that experience does not need to be held onto any longer. (I become aware of -my attention moves to- the music currently playing in the internet place, which is 'Change the world' Michael Jackson! Make the world a better place.) In the future scene my past experience becomes a totally conscious experience and therefore every meaning which it holds for me has been experienced consciously. In the future scene the experience has been experienced in totality and no therefore no part of this particualr experience will need to be repeated. In the present moment I think I am not consciously aware of exactly what I was experiencing then. I think I intend to look at what I was experiencing in connection to Y earlier. Past I am coming up to the internet place. It occurs to me there is a possibility that Y might be there. In that case I imagine talking to him. I imagine needing reassurance from him that he has not been rejecting me. I imagine that I will want to spend time with him and that I let go of my desire to do a UCP session. I am wondering if Y might be there. I am trying to decide whether to go to the place where I think he might be or whether it would be better to avoid it. I think 'Why would he be there anyway?' But then if he IS there then that will distract me from my entry. Surely it's better to avoid the possibility of distraction. Right now I want to write my entry and do my session more than anything else. I am afraid that if I see Y it will change my mind. I am afraid that seeing him might make me want to spend time with him rather than doing a session. I am afraid that he has the power to change my feelings, I am afraid that my intention, my decision about what I want to do will be changed by being around him. I am afraid that he has the power to take my power to decide what I want away from me. I am afraid that any decision I make as a result of being around him is not an empowered decision. I believe my changing my mind would be as a result of needing to be with him. I don't want my life to be dependent on him. I don't want to be in a position where I need reassurance from him. Now compare I think this chain reaction started from a clearly defined point. I now think the starting point was the thought 'It is a possibility that Y may be there.' From this starting thought came a series of reactions. I imagined what would happen if he was there. In the past I forgot that all of this was sparked by my imagination, the feelings were so real that I got caught up in the feelings and I went throught the feelings connected with the experience that I imagined. However, I now believe that although the experience and the feelings were real but were stimulated by a thought and not by a situation in external reality. Now I am thinking that I was not actually IN that internet place. I did not actually SEE Y. I did not actually make that decision to abandon my intention to do a UCP session. wow, i'm just thinking how MUCH stuff there is to look at! For me this is my life. I remember it seemed to me that you were almost surprised that I had done 2 sessions in 2 days but this IS how I want my life to BE, all the time. Future I deal purely with what is ACTUALLY infront of me in the external world. Compare Now I think that my mind is often carried away imagining the way that things might be. Imagining the way that things may go. At some time in the present I decide on a certain course of action **without knowing why I have chosen to do that action**. In the present moment i am unaware of the reasons why I choose a certain course of action. In the future scene I am 100% conscious that for every single action that I take there is a motivation, a reason for carrying out that action. In the future scene I am consciously aware of my reasoning, my motivation, my intention. In the future scene every action that I undertake has maximum effectiveness because I am conscious of the intention. Is there a time when I have done this before? Past I am remembering a bus journey that I took 2 months ago that I see as the beginning of my whole voyage. I am sitting on the bus on my way to sing at a wedding at a village in rural central Java. My singing teacher invited me to sing at this wedding. When she invited me I said yes I wanted to go. (The day before I feel under an extreme amount of pressure that I HAVE to go to this wedding whether I want to now or not. I am annoyed that I no longer seem to have a choice. Now I feel that I don't want to go but because I said yes previously i have to go. That does not seem fair.) The night before I decide that I will go because I have commited myself and I will go with the intention to be open to whatever will happen. I am sitting on the bus and the thought occurs to me that tomorrow is a new day and there is nothing that I have commited myself to so strongly that I feel obliged to carry it out. The thought occurs to me that tomorrow I could experiment with asking myself before each action that I carry out 'do I really truly desire to do this?' I realise that I am on this bus journey for about 4 hours and that I am guaranteed time to think to myself because all the players are Javanese and are busy talking amongst themselves. I realise that they will leave me to myself and that I will not be disturbed by anyone trying to make conversation with me. I begin to have fun by considering the possibility that tomorrow I can REALLY TRULY do only those things which I have decided I want to do. I think.... Yes, why not. There is really nothing stopping me from doing that if that is what I want to do. But then what happens if I don't go to my lessons at University? Well, I am here on a scholarship but the government is very relaxed and I don't think anyone will worry too much if I don't turn up. Anyway they do not have the power to force me to go. So I don't go to classes, what then? Well, wait a minute, I've already assumed that I have carried out certain activites. I've got out of bed for a start. Do I want to get out of bed? Ok, well I can imagine that I do want to get out of bed because I am quite excited about the fact that this day is the beginning of a great experiment and I can do whatever *I* want without having to consider anyone else. I want to know what will happen today so I am quite happy to get out of bed. Then what? Well, I will get washed. Do *I* want to get washed? Yes, because I would rather feel clean than dirty. Next. Then I will get dressed. Do *I* want to get dressed? Yes because I don't want people staring at me when I go out of the house. Hmm, is this the only reason why I wear clothes? Well, no. They also protect my skin from the sun. They protect my skin from getting dirty. So yes, I want to get dressed because I can see reasons for doing so. Next? I want to see what happens if I choose to do Nothing. So I do nothing. Well, actually I sit down on my floor and cross my legs and wait. Next? At some point I get hungry. So then I go and get some food. I eat and then I come back to my room and sit down on the floor again. So what I am doing is not exactly nothing, but more like waiting to see what will happen to me if *I* don't take the initiative to do anything beyond fending for my basic needs. Next? At some point someone comes to see me. I hear a knock on my door. I am interested to know who it is, and why s/he has come to see me so I say 'come in'. It is one of the people who I live with. I wait for her to speak. She says hello. I say hello. Surely she is surprised that I have been in my room all this time and that I am just sitting there on the floor apparently doing nothing. She says 'What are you doing?' I say 'Nothing, just waiting to see what will happen.' Surely she is slightly surprised by this reply but she just ignores the fact that it is a strange thing to say. She asks me several other questions but I answer them in the same way. She is maybe flummoxed but decides to go and do whatever it was she was going to do next anyway. I jump forward in time and imagine that I spend large amounts of time sitting in my room waiting to see what will happen if I continue to do nothing from my own initiative beyond taking care of the essentials- sleep, wash, dress, eat, drink. Surely I will get a reputation from others for being eccentric. Maybe people will be curious and come to see me just to find out what it is that I am doing. Ha ha, I am happy that I will answer their questions directly, no fuss, no beating about the bush. I will make sure I am completely clear what they are asking me, why they have come to see me and then I will answer directly and honestly. Surely they will be surprised by this and have trouble understanding. But I am just doing what I want to do- seeing what happens. Oh, but then what about my family. Do I want to go and communicate with them by sending email? Is it essential? No. It is not essential to my survival that I send them email. Now Y just came into the internet place. I am not sure if it is him or not so I wait. Then he says hello. I say hello and realise that i have a huge smile on my face. This is ME smiling at him. It is ok to be ME. I am happy that it is ok to be me when he is here after all. I am surprised to be in this situation. Ha ha ha. This is the situation that i was dreading earlier on. Well, not so much dreading but rather wanting to avoid, thinking that i had to avoid. And now it is happening and what. I am still writing my post. I am still in session and boy does it feel good. All I really needed to do was to smile at him and for him to smile at me. That was enough. Now I can carry on with this. I am reassured. I am not worried. I am content. Everything is ok. Future I could finish the story of what happened in my head on the bus. I would be ableThe point i reached when I believed that in my imagination I was completely aware of the reason for each action that i carried out. The result of holding the intention to act only on the result of what *I* believed I wanted to do. Compare In the future situation I am able to communicate clearly the process that I went through. Anyone who reads it will comprehend the process that I went through. In the future situation I am sure that I will be understood. The future situation narrows the possibility for misunderstanding. Now I am worried that because I have not finished describing the process that I went through it will not be clear what I am trying to say. But now I think it is ok for me to summarise the the past without finishing the story. I do not need to fear being misunderstood. Past On that journey.... I allow myself to think it is possible that the only thing I have to consider is *what I want*. I allow myself to think that it is possible for me to consciously choose to do *only those things which I want to do*. I allow myself to think that I will only decide to carry out an action if I am 100% sure that I desire to carry it out, and that I am aware of the reason why I desire to do that. Now compare In the past I believed that as a result allowing myself to hold that viewpoint I found out that a world in which I believe my feelings are the only ones that matter is ultimately very lonely and boring, not empowering in the way that I thought it might be. I thought 'I have a choice here, if I choose to believe that my feelings are the only ones that matter then I can end up in that kind of world- It's Possible. But I can also live in a world where I believe that others have feelings in the same way that I have feelings, and that being the case I choose to care about the feelings of others. I realised that I have a choice, I am not under any obligation to care about anyone else except myself. I am not obliged to care about my family. I make a choice. In the space of 4 hours I came to realise that I am never forced to do anything because of other people. There is nothing in this world that I am truly obliged to do. All I do is make choices. Now what is important is to be aware of the motivation for the action that I carry out. FULL CIRCLE yes, it feels like an ending. A beginning. A returning. I have discovered a nugget for today. The nugget is I intend to be aware of the motivation which causes me to carry out the action which I am currently performing. Thats all. Thats enough. Thats a lifetimes work maybe! Thank you all once again for listening. Good Afternoon. Esther. Up to 11 hours now. Only 13 and I've completed the 24hr challenge. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1066-1023038313-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 17:18:29 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52HIS422196 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 17:18:29 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1066-1023038313-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 17:18:33 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 17:18:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 21460 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 17:18:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 17:18:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 17:18:29 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.192]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA21011 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:18:19 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020602101443.011c8de8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 10:14:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Esther III Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 305 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: "esjwilds" Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:36:27 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Esther III [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology ============== ESTHER WRITES ============== Hello again. It's time for session three. Where are you now? It's so much fun to feel like I'm not doing this on my own. Thank you so much for the feedback. I am happy that I moved to a different internet cafe because I couldn't get signed into yahoo groups in the other place and I wanted to make my posting. It means so much to me that what I say - the truth about what is going on with me- is heard and accepted by others. I am surprised that you are so interested to read my postings but glad too. I am very glad to read your replies. Where could you be? Commenting on my respsonse to the replies with greater depth. Writing my response immediately after reading the replies themselves. Compare In the future scene I will be more accurately communicating my response to others. In the future scene my response is heartfelt and intimately connected with my reading of the comments made by others. Now I am thinking that I read the two responses to my previous post (Esther II) about 25 mins ago and felt extremely moved by them. Now I am thinking that I should have written a response at that time and then it would have been a direct translation of what I was feeling. Now I am feeling that I have missed my chance to communicate the strength of my feeling from reading your comments. Now I am remembering that the reason I didn't write my response immediately is that I was unable to sign in to Yahoo groups and the technology was preventing me from responding directly. In the future scene I am feeling the result of believing that there is a true dialogue happening. Now I am thinking that I do not need to re-read the posts in order to re-capture the feelings. Past As I read your posts...I am really being heard. I am really being understood. I am really COMMUNICATING!!!!!!!! And best of all, others really want to communicate with me- no matter what I am, just because I am being me. I feel appreciated. I feel that i am being accepted as I am. I have tears in my eyes. I feel loved. I feel that I am being reassured that it is ok to be me. I feel that I am lucky to have found such a place. I feel that this is so much better than doing it alone. Compare Now I am being me in this new present moment again. No longer intending to respond to your posts but thinking about what is going on with me now not then. Future I could be looking at the feelings I had in connection with my response to believing that Y was online again but status set to away when I signed on at the beginning of my first session today. Compare In the future scene I am giving myself the chance to replay the strong feelings that I went through in the past moment whilst holding the intention to be 100% conscious of the nature of that experience. In the present moment I feel that there are parts of that experience which are still residing in my unconscious mind. In the future scene I get to the point where I am satisfied that there is no part of that experience left clogging up my unconscious mind. In the future scene I get to the point where that experience does not need to be held onto any longer. (I become aware of -my attention moves to- the music currently playing in the internet place, which is 'Change the world' Michael Jackson! Make the world a better place.) In the future scene my past experience becomes a totally conscious experience and therefore every meaning which it holds for me has been experienced consciously. In the future scene the experience has been experienced in totality and no therefore no part of this particualr experience will need to be repeated. In the present moment I think I am not consciously aware of exactly what I was experiencing then. I think I intend to look at what I was experiencing in connection to Y earlier. Past I am coming up to the internet place. It occurs to me there is a possibility that Y might be there. In that case I imagine talking to him. I imagine needing reassurance from him that he has not been rejecting me. I imagine that I will want to spend time with him and that I let go of my desire to do a UCP session. I am wondering if Y might be there. I am trying to decide whether to go to the place where I think he might be or whether it would be better to avoid it. I think 'Why would he be there anyway?' But then if he IS there then that will distract me from my entry. Surely it's better to avoid the possibility of distraction. Right now I want to write my entry and do my session more than anything else. I am afraid that if I see Y it will change my mind. I am afraid that seeing him might make me want to spend time with him rather than doing a session. I am afraid that he has the power to change my feelings, I am afraid that my intention, my decision about what I want to do will be changed by being around him. I am afraid that he has the power to take my power to decide what I want away from me. I am afraid that any decision I make as a result of being around him is not an empowered decision. I believe my changing my mind would be as a result of needing to be with him. I don't want my life to be dependent on him. I don't want to be in a position where I need reassurance from him. Now compare I think this chain reaction started from a clearly defined point. I now think the starting point was the thought 'It is a possibility that Y may be there.' From this starting thought came a series of reactions. I imagined what would happen if he was there. In the past I forgot that all of this was sparked by my imagination, the feelings were so real that I got caught up in the feelings and I went throught the feelings connected with the experience that I imagined. However, I now believe that although the experience and the feelings were real but were stimulated by a thought and not by a situation in external reality. Now I am thinking that I was not actually IN that internet place. I did not actually SEE Y. I did not actually make that decision to abandon my intention to do a UCP session. wow, i'm just thinking how MUCH stuff there is to look at! For me this is my life. I remember it seemed to me that you were almost surprised that I had done 2 sessions in 2 days but this IS how I want my life to BE, all the time. Future I deal purely with what is ACTUALLY infront of me in the external world. Compare Now I think that my mind is often carried away imagining the way that things might be. Imagining the way that things may go. At some time in the present I decide on a certain course of action **without knowing why I have chosen to do that action**. In the present moment i am unaware of the reasons why I choose a certain course of action. In the future scene I am 100% conscious that for every single action that I take there is a motivation, a reason for carrying out that action. In the future scene I am consciously aware of my reasoning, my motivation, my intention. In the future scene every action that I undertake has maximum effectiveness because I am conscious of the intention. Is there a time when I have done this before? Past I am remembering a bus journey that I took 2 months ago that I see as the beginning of my whole voyage. I am sitting on the bus on my way to sing at a wedding at a village in rural central Java. My singing teacher invited me to sing at this wedding. When she invited me I said yes I wanted to go. (The day before I feel under an extreme amount of pressure that I HAVE to go to this wedding whether I want to now or not. I am annoyed that I no longer seem to have a choice. Now I feel that I don't want to go but because I said yes previously i have to go. That does not seem fair.) The night before I decide that I will go because I have commited myself and I will go with the intention to be open to whatever will happen. I am sitting on the bus and the thought occurs to me that tomorrow is a new day and there is nothing that I have commited myself to so strongly that I feel obliged to carry it out. The thought occurs to me that tomorrow I could experiment with asking myself before each action that I carry out 'do I really truly desire to do this?' I realise that I am on this bus journey for about 4 hours and that I am guaranteed time to think to myself because all the players are Javanese and are busy talking amongst themselves. I realise that they will leave me to myself and that I will not be disturbed by anyone trying to make conversation with me. I begin to have fun by considering the possibility that tomorrow I can REALLY TRULY do only those things which I have decided I want to do. I think.... Yes, why not. There is really nothing stopping me from doing that if that is what I want to do. But then what happens if I don't go to my lessons at University? Well, I am here on a scholarship but the government is very relaxed and I don't think anyone will worry too much if I don't turn up. Anyway they do not have the power to force me to go. So I don't go to classes, what then? Well, wait a minute, I've already assumed that I have carried out certain activites. I've got out of bed for a start. Do I want to get out of bed? Ok, well I can imagine that I do want to get out of bed because I am quite excited about the fact that this day is the beginning of a great experiment and I can do whatever *I* want without having to consider anyone else. I want to know what will happen today so I am quite happy to get out of bed. Then what? Well, I will get washed. Do *I* want to get washed? Yes, because I would rather feel clean than dirty. Next. Then I will get dressed. Do *I* want to get dressed? Yes because I don't want people staring at me when I go out of the house. Hmm, is this the only reason why I wear clothes? Well, no. They also protect my skin from the sun. They protect my skin from getting dirty. So yes, I want to get dressed because I can see reasons for doing so. Next? I want to see what happens if I choose to do Nothing. So I do nothing. Well, actually I sit down on my floor and cross my legs and wait. Next? At some point I get hungry. So then I go and get some food. I eat and then I come back to my room and sit down on the floor again. So what I am doing is not exactly nothing, but more like waiting to see what will happen to me if *I* don't take the initiative to do anything beyond fending for my basic needs. Next? At some point someone comes to see me. I hear a knock on my door. I am interested to know who it is, and why s/he has come to see me so I say 'come in'. It is one of the people who I live with. I wait for her to speak. She says hello. I say hello. Surely she is surprised that I have been in my room all this time and that I am just sitting there on the floor apparently doing nothing. She says 'What are you doing?' I say 'Nothing, just waiting to see what will happen.' Surely she is slightly surprised by this reply but she just ignores the fact that it is a strange thing to say. She asks me several other questions but I answer them in the same way. She is maybe flummoxed but decides to go and do whatever it was she was going to do next anyway. I jump forward in time and imagine that I spend large amounts of time sitting in my room waiting to see what will happen if I continue to do nothing from my own initiative beyond taking care of the essentials- sleep, wash, dress, eat, drink. Surely I will get a reputation from others for being eccentric. Maybe people will be curious and come to see me just to find out what it is that I am doing. Ha ha, I am happy that I will answer their questions directly, no fuss, no beating about the bush. I will make sure I am completely clear what they are asking me, why they have come to see me and then I will answer directly and honestly. Surely they will be surprised by this and have trouble understanding. But I am just doing what I want to do- seeing what happens. Oh, but then what about my family. Do I want to go and communicate with them by sending email? Is it essential? No. It is not essential to my survival that I send them email. Now Y just came into the internet place. I am not sure if it is him or not so I wait. Then he says hello. I say hello and realise that i have a huge smile on my face. This is ME smiling at him. It is ok to be ME. I am happy that it is ok to be me when he is here after all. I am surprised to be in this situation. Ha ha ha. This is the situation that i was dreading earlier on. Well, not so much dreading but rather wanting to avoid, thinking that i had to avoid. And now it is happening and what. I am still writing my post. I am still in session and boy does it feel good. All I really needed to do was to smile at him and for him to smile at me. That was enough. Now I can carry on with this. I am reassured. I am not worried. I am content. Everything is ok. Future I could finish the story of what happened in my head on the bus. I would be ableThe point i reached when I believed that in my imagination I was completely aware of the reason for each action that i carried out. The result of holding the intention to act only on the result of what *I* believed I wanted to do. Compare In the future situation I am able to communicate clearly the process that I went through. Anyone who reads it will comprehend the process that I went through. In the future situation I am sure that I will be understood. The future situation narrows the possibility for misunderstanding. Now I am worried that because I have not finished describing the process that I went through it will not be clear what I am trying to say. But now I think it is ok for me to summarise the the past without finishing the story. I do not need to fear being misunderstood. Past On that journey.... I allow myself to think it is possible that the only thing I have to consider is *what I want*. I allow myself to think that it is possible for me to consciously choose to do *only those things which I want to do*. I allow myself to think that I will only decide to carry out an action if I am 100% sure that I desire to carry it out, and that I am aware of the reason why I desire to do that. Now compare In the past I believed that as a result allowing myself to hold that viewpoint I found out that a world in which I believe my feelings are the only ones that matter is ultimately very lonely and boring, not empowering in the way that I thought it might be. I thought 'I have a choice here, if I choose to believe that my feelings are the only ones that matter then I can end up in that kind of world- It's Possible. But I can also live in a world where I believe that others have feelings in the same way that I have feelings, and that being the case I choose to care about the feelings of others. I realised that I have a choice, I am not under any obligation to care about anyone else except myself. I am not obliged to care about my family. I make a choice. In the space of 4 hours I came to realise that I am never forced to do anything because of other people. There is nothing in this world that I am truly obliged to do. All I do is make choices. Now what is important is to be aware of the motivation for the action that I carry out. FULL CIRCLE yes, it feels like an ending. A beginning. A returning. I have discovered a nugget for today. The nugget is I intend to be aware of the motivation which causes me to carry out the action which I am currently performing. Thats all. Thats enough. Thats a lifetimes work maybe! Thank you all once again for listening. Good Afternoon. Esther. Up to 11 hours now. Only 13 and I've completed the 24hr challenge. ============ KP REPLIES TO ESTHER ============= At 02:36 PM 6/2/2002 -0000, you wrote: >Hello again. Hello! >It's time for session three. My treat arrived! >Where are you now? Eagerly anticpating another tour of your universe! >It's so much fun to feel like I'm not doing this on my own. WE ARE YOUR WITNESSES! It's so much joy to see you be you! >Thank you so much for the feedback. My pleasure! >I am happy that I moved to a different >internet cafe because I couldn't get signed into yahoo groups in the >other place and I wanted to make my posting. I wanted to read it! >It means so much to me that what I say - >the truth about what is going on with me- >is heard and accepted by others. Your postings make that statement true for me! Do you understand what it means to me to have my life's work duplicated so quickly and done and demonstrated with such perfect public elegance? You PROVE the possibility of my promise to the proletariat! >I am surprised that you are so interested >to read my postings but glad too. I am surprised that you duplicated and did UCP so quickly . . . and thrilled a whole lot! >I am very glad to read your replies. As I am very glad to read your posts. >Where could you be? > >Commenting on my respsonse to the replies with greater depth. >Writing my response immediately after reading the replies themselves. > >Compare > >In the future scene I will be more accurately communicating my >response to others. In the future scene my response is heartfelt and >intimately connected with my reading of the comments made by others. >Now I am thinking that I read the two responses to my previous post >(Esther II) about 25 mins ago and felt extremely moved by them. Now >I am thinking that I should have written a response at that time and >then it would have been a direct translation of what I was feeling. Could have? Should have? Options . . . Smoptions! >Now I am feeling that I have missed my chance to communicate the >strength of my feeling from reading your comments. And communicated both experiences to our benefit. >Now I am >remembering that the reason I didn't write my response immediately is >that I was unable to sign in to Yahoo groups and the technology was >preventing me from responding directly. In the future scene I am >feeling the result of believing that there is a true dialogue >happening. Now I am thinking that I do not need to re-read the posts >in order to re-capture the feelings. In the present there IS a real dialog going on! >Past > >As I read your posts...I am really being heard. I am really being >understood. I am really COMMUNICATING!!!!!!!! You definitely ARE! >And best of all, others really want to communicate with me- YES! >no matter what I am, just because I am being me. Exactly! How rare is that! >I feel appreciated. You are. >I feel that i am being accepted as I am. I get a buzz from how you are! >I have tears in my eyes. Me too. I wept with joy at your other post too! >I feel loved. I must BE in love! >I feel that I am being reassured that it is ok to be me. Much better than OK! >I feel that I am lucky to have found such a place. We are lucky you found us so fast! >I feel that this is so much better than doing it alone. YES! Read the Charter for alt.ucp. Your experience here is exactly what alt.ucp/ucp-list is designed to foster! This is WHY the UCPeons are here! This is the best show I know! >Compare > >Now I am being me in this new present moment again. No longer >intending to respond to your posts but thinking about what is going >on with me now not then. > >Future > >I could be looking at the feelings I had in connection with my >response to believing that Y was online again but status set to away >when I signed on at the beginning of my first session today. > >Compare > >In the future scene I am giving myself the chance to replay the >strong feelings that I went through in the past moment whilst holding >the intention to be 100% conscious of the nature of that experience. Way Cool! >In the present moment I feel that there are parts of that >experience which are still residing in my unconscious mind. Way Cool! New Perception, of Unawareness! >In the future scene >I get to the point where I am satisfied that there is no part of that >experience left clogging up my unconscious mind. Imagined perception of awareness! >In the future scene >I get to the point where that experience does not need to be held >onto any longer. (I become aware of -my attention moves to- the music >currently playing in the internet place, which is 'Change the world' >Michael Jackson! Make the world a better place.) Sometimes it astonishes my how the syncronicity was happening all around me and I missed the messages because I was somewhere else imagining something that was not really happening then. To busy being stuck in the WHAT-IF to NOTICE THE NOW. But then sometimes I SEE what IS happening and start duplicating my universal interactions. >In the future >scene my past experience becomes a totally conscious experience and >therefore every meaning which it holds for me has been experienced >consciously. In the future scene the experience has been experienced >in totality and no therefore no part of this particualr experience >will need to be repeated. I like that picture! >In the present moment I think I am not >consciously aware of exactly what I was experiencing then. I think I >intend to look at what I was experiencing in connection to Y earlier. > >Past > >I am coming up to the internet place. It occurs to me there is a >possibility that Y might be there. In that case I imagine talking to >him. I imagine needing reassurance from him that he has not been >rejecting me. I imagine that I will want to spend time with him and >that I let go of my desire to do a UCP session. >I am wondering if Y might be there. I am trying to decide whether to >go to the place where I think he might be or whether it would be >better to avoid it. I think 'Why would he be there anyway?' But >then if he IS there then that will distract me from my entry. Surely >it's better to avoid the possibility of distraction. Right now I >want to write my entry and do my session more than anything else. I >am afraid that if I see Y it will change my mind. I am afraid that >seeing him might make me want to spend time with him rather than >doing a session. I am afraid that he has the power to change my >feelings, I am afraid that my intention, my decision about what I >want to do will be changed by being around him. I am afraid that he >has the power to take my power to decide what I want away from me. I >am afraid that any decision I make as a result of being around him is >not an empowered decision. I believe my changing my mind would be as >a result of needing to be with him. I don't want my life to be >dependent on him. I don't want to be in a position where I need >reassurance from him. Your awareness of your thoughts savors both the sharp tang and engulfing sweetness of a fully ripe pineapple. >Now compare > >I think this chain reaction started from a clearly defined point. I >now think the starting point was the thought 'It is a possibility >that Y may be there.' YES! You started a WHAT-IF = MIGHT-BE = AS-IF cycle! >From this starting thought came a series of reactions. Yes! You created a MAKE-BELIEVE MOCK-UP, and then BEHAVED *AS-IF* IT ACTUALLY EXISTS. You are SEEING the map/territory thing/symbol DIFFERENCE. >I imagined what would happen if he was there. In the >past I forgot that all of this was sparked by my imagination, the >feelings were so real that I got caught up in the feelings and I went >throught the feelings connected with the experience that I imagined. YES! You are SEEING the core of THINK / SYMBOLS / SUBSTITUTE. >However, I now believe that although the experience and the feelings >were real but were stimulated by a thought and not by a situation in >external reality. Now I am thinking that I was not actually IN that >internet place. I did not actually SEE Y. I did not actually make >that decision to abandon my intention to do a UCP session. A NEW PERCEPTION! ABOUT PERCEPTION! Of WHAT-IF versus IS-NOW >wow, i'm just thinking how MUCH stuff there is to look at! For me >this is my life. I remember it seemed to me that you were almost >surprised that I had done 2 sessions in 2 days but this IS how I want >my life to BE, all the time. ============= I *AM* IN LOVE! ============= >Future > >I deal purely with what is ACTUALLY infront of me in the external world. I hope I'm there to drink it all in! >Compare > >Now I think that my mind is often carried away imagining the >way that things might be. Imagining the way that things may go. YES! THINK! FIGURE-FIGURE! WHAT-IF! COMPUTATIONS! ETC. All of which is valid and useful *IF* YOU REMEMBER WHAT YOU ARE ACTUALLY DOING! and don't think that the thinking itself is actually the doing itself! >At some time in the present I decide on a certain course of >action **without knowing why I have chosen to do that action**. A key observation! >In the present moment i am unaware of the >reasons why I choose a certain course of action. Awareness of Unawareness! >In the future scene I am 100% conscious that for every single action >that I take there is a motivation, a reason for carrying out that action. YES! If you don't KNOW what you are doing and WHY, then it's not time for DOING, it's time for MEDITATION. >In the future scene I am consciously aware >of my reasoning, my motivation, my intention. In my future scene I get to groove on your awareness. >In the future scene every action that I undertake has maximum >effectiveness because I am conscious of the intention. I WANT TO LIVE AS *WE* IN THAT STATE OF GRACE. Maximum effectiveness through maximum groove! >Is there a time when I have done this before? > >Past > >I am remembering a bus journey that I took 2 months ago that I see as >the beginning of my whole voyage. >I am sitting on the bus on my way to sing at a wedding at a village >in rural central Java. My singing teacher invited me to sing at this >wedding. When she invited me I said yes I wanted to go. >(The day before I feel under an extreme amount of pressure that I >HAVE to go to this wedding whether I want to now or not. I am >annoyed that I no longer seem to have a choice. Now I feel that I >don't want to go but because I said yes previously i have to go. >That does not seem fair.) >The night before I decide that I will go because I have commited >myself and I will go with the intention to be open to whatever will >happen. >I am sitting on the bus and the thought occurs to me that tomorrow is >a new day and there is nothing that I have commited myself to so >strongly that I feel obliged to carry it out. The thought occurs to >me that tomorrow I could experiment with asking myself before each >action that I carry out 'do I really truly desire to do this?' I >realise that I am on this bus journey for about 4 hours and that I am >guaranteed time to think to myself because all the players are >Javanese and are busy talking amongst themselves. I realise that >they will leave me to myself and that I will not be disturbed by >anyone trying to make conversation with me. I begin to have fun by >considering the possibility that tomorrow I can REALLY TRULY do only >those things which I have decided I want to do. I think.... Yes, >why not. There is really nothing stopping me from doing that if that >is what I want to do. But then what happens if I don't go to my >lessons at University? Well, I am here on a scholarship but the >government is very relaxed and I don't think anyone will worry too >much if I don't turn up. Anyway they do not have the power to force >me to go. So I don't go to classes, what then? Well, wait a minute, >I've already assumed that I have carried out certain activites. I've >got out of bed for a start. Do I want to get out of bed? Ok, well I >can imagine that I do want to get out of bed because I am quite >excited about the fact that this day is the beginning of a great >experiment and I can do whatever *I* want without having to consider >anyone else. I want to know what will happen today so I am quite >happy to get out of bed. Then what? Well, I will get washed. Do >*I* want to get washed? Yes, because I would rather feel clean than >dirty. Next. Then I will get dressed. Do *I* want to get dressed? >Yes because I don't want people staring at me when I go out of the >house. Hmm, is this the only reason why I wear clothes? Well, no. >They also protect my skin from the sun. They protect my skin from >getting dirty. So yes, I want to get dressed because I can see >reasons for doing so. Next? I want to see what happens if I choose >to do Nothing. So I do nothing. Well, actually I sit down on my >floor and cross my legs and wait. Next? At some point I get >hungry. So then I go and get some food. I eat and then I come back >to my room and sit down on the floor again. So what I am doing is >not exactly nothing, but more like waiting to see what will happen to >me if *I* don't take the initiative to do anything beyond fending for >my basic needs. WAIT >Next? At some point someone comes to see me. I >hear a knock on my door. I am interested to know who it is, and why >s/he has come to see me so I say 'come in'. It is one of the people >who I live with. I wait for her to speak. She says hello. I say >hello. Surely she is surprised that I have been in my room all this >time and that I am just sitting there on the floor apparently doing >nothing. She says 'What are you doing?' I say 'Nothing, just >waiting to see what will happen.' Surely she is slightly surprised >by this reply but she just ignores the fact that it is a strange >thing to say. She asks me several other questions but I answer them >in the same way. She is maybe flummoxed but decides to go and do >whatever it was she was going to do next anyway. I jump forward in >time and imagine that I spend large amounts of time sitting in my >room waiting to see what will happen if I continue to do nothing from >my own initiative beyond taking care of the essentials- sleep, wash, >dress, eat, drink. Surely I will get a reputation from others for >being eccentric. Maybe people will be curious and come to see me >just to find out what it is that I am doing. Ha ha, I am happy that >I will answer their questions directly, no fuss, no beating about the >bush. I will make sure I am completely clear what they are asking >me, why they have come to see me and then I will answer directly and >honestly. Surely they will be surprised by this and have trouble >understanding. But I am just doing what I want to do- seeing what >happens. Oh, but then what about my family. Do I want to go and >communicate with them by sending email? Is it essential? No. It is >not essential to my survival that I send them email. The detail, texture and crisp reality of your imagination is a work of art. >Now > >Y just came into the internet place. I am not sure if it is him or >not so I wait. Then he says hello. I say hello and realise that i >have a huge smile on my face. This is ME smiling at him. It is ok >to be ME. I am happy that it is ok to be me when he is here after >all. I am surprised to be in this situation. Ha ha ha. This is the >situation that i was dreading earlier on. Well, not so much dreading >but rather wanting to avoid, thinking that i had to avoid. And now >it is happening and what. I am still writing my post. I am still in >session and boy does it feel good. All I really needed to do was to >smile at him and for him to smile at me. That was enough. Now I can >carry on with this. I am reassured. I am not worried. I am >content. Everything is ok. That IS a full-circle integration of session / not session imagination / reality thoughts about Y / Y himself awareness of unawareness / awareness of awareness in a stunning display of a Tone 6 work-of-art UCP session! BRAVO! Your dialog with the universe is extraordinary to watch! >Future > >I could finish the story of what happened in my head on the bus. I >would be ableThe point i reached when I believed that in my >imagination I was completely aware of the reason for each action that >i carried out. The result of holding the intention to act only on >the result of what *I* believed I wanted to do. > >Compare > >In the future situation I am able to communicate clearly the process >that I went through. Anyone who reads it will comprehend the process >that I went through. In the future situation I am sure that I will >be understood. The future situation narrows the possibility for >misunderstanding. Now I am worried that because I have not finished >describing the process that I went through it will not be clear what >I am trying to say. But now I think it is ok for me to summarise the >the past without finishing the story. I do not need to fear being >misunderstood. YOUR FUTURE IS NOW! YOU ARE UNDERSTOOD! You have communicated the process you went through with stunning clarity! >Past > >On that journey.... I allow myself to think it is possible that the >only thing I have to consider is *what I want*. I allow myself to >think that it is possible for me to consciously choose to do *only >those things which I want to do*. I allow myself to think that I >will only decide to carry out an action if I am 100% sure that I >desire to carry it out, and that I am aware of the reason why I >desire to do that. > >Now compare > >In the past I believed that as a result allowing myself to hold that >viewpoint I found out that a world in which I believe my feelings are >the only ones that matter is ultimately very lonely and boring, not >empowering in the way that I thought it might be. I thought 'I have >a choice here, if I choose to believe that my feelings are the only >ones that matter then I can end up in that kind of world- It's >Possible. But I can also live in a world where I believe that others >have feelings in the same way that I have feelings, and that being >the case I choose to care about the feelings of others. Because it *IS* just exactly WHAT YOU WANT TO DO! And you KNOW that because you have thoroughly examined YOUR options, in great detail! >I realised >that I have a choice, I am not under any obligation to care about >anyone else except myself. I am not obliged to care about my >family. I make a choice. In the space of 4 hours I came to realise >that I am never forced to do anything because of other people. There >is nothing in this world that I am truly obliged to do. All I do is >make choices. Now what is important is to be aware of the motivation >for the action that I carry out. And you can truly want to do what others truly want you to do too! They might well be . . . EXACTLY THE SAME! >FULL CIRCLE YES! >yes, it feels like an ending. A beginning. A returning. >I have discovered a nugget for today. >The nugget is More properly the mother load of . . . YOU! >I intend to be aware of the motivation which causes me >to carry out the action which I am currently performing. I intend to enjoy the show as fully as possible. It's already world-class . . . with-a-bullet! >Thats all. > >Thats enough. > >Thats a lifetimes work maybe! Perhaps many lifetimes! >Thank you all once again for listening. THANK *YOU!* >Good Afternoon. *VERY* GOOD! >Esther. > >Up to 11 hours now. Only 13 and I've completed the 24hr challenge. Your posts are a perfect pleasure to peruse! WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1067-1023038750-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 17:25:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52HPk427206 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 17:25:46 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1067-1023038750-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 17:25:50 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 17:25:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 2822 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 17:25:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 17:25:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 17:25:49 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.192]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22124 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:25:45 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020602102206.01221a78@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020601095652.0116baa0@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 10:22:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Septic Tank? Maintenance Tips 7367yVYV1-185qsnEl16 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 306 >On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > >> Dear Abner >> >> You have a very creative sense of humor! >> >> And your spam souffle is marvelous! >> >> >> KP Abner: >Dear KP, > >I'm glad you found it tasty! > >I was in stitches when I wrote it. An excellent sign of good material! >Then when I got yr message and realized someone else thought it was >funny, I began to line charge on it. I just kept reading it over and >over roaring uncontrollably. When I quit doing that, my mind kept >rolling it verbatim. It was really dumb! ?? WHY is it "dumb" to fully appreciate a work of art? The contemplation of perfection induces timeless satori. Purrfection is where you find it! >Since my attention was stuck on >it I resolved to take a look at it. But first I went to see a lady who >had just been informed that her husband is dying. > >When I finally got to run it, it was about frustration with this other >group I have been contributing to. All my gifts have been denied, ruined, >ignored, invalidated, rejected, stolen, or reduced. Probably were not perceived at all. It looked like something else to them. You were speaking over their heads! >Compared to this list, where so far my contributions have been >appreciated, met with interest, enjoyment, intelligence, humor, >understanding and feedback. I consider you an major asset to the list. I find your vision keen and your judgements well grounded. Your perceptions on how to APPLY UCP strike me as those of someone who has DONE UCP. I love it when people learn before lecturing! And then *SPEAK* . . . THEIR TRUTH! >So there was a lot of relief in this. Excellent! >Thanks for telling me that. > > abner >abner@sdf.lonestar.org Thanks for posting! KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1068-1023046000-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 19:26:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52JQaO07089 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 19:26:36 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1068-1023046000-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 19:26:40 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 19:26:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 28615 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 19:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 19:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 19:26:38 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.192]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA06879 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:26:36 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020602122254.0115eb68@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 12:22:54 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 307 55 AND STILL ALIVE! [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology June 1, 2002 Well . . . I made it to OLD! My lingering love afair with middle age died decaydently. I am now eligible to move into Adults-Only housing. That's not Adult as in able-to-make-babies. That's Adult as in 55-and-Over, No-Babies-Here! housing. The antechamber of the crematorium has opened! Where am I now? 55, 40 or 50 pounds overweight, in fairly good shape for not having worked out for maybe a year. I got on my trampoline with 5 pound hand weights and did 20 minutes of jumping around. My pulse was 140. When I was working out last year I used 8 pound hand weights and 5 pound ankle weights, and my pulse was about 140. So I'm obviously not as pumped as I was a year ago. On the other hand, I came back from a year off and worked out and it was easy. And I *DE-INJURED* a 20-year SEVERE injury last year, so I am almost pain free. Another big clunk in my neck makes me happy! A week or so ago my left shoulder was collapsing in constant pain that was interfering with my sleep and trying to make me psychotic. I couldn't raise my left elbow without severe pain. I've been doing a lot of meditation / yoga and got it fixed enough to work out! It's not right yet, but it's much better . . . and working! Financially, I'm just above homeless. I spent much of the last three months depending on *PROMISES* that turned out to be *FALSE PRETENSES*, which was not financially rewarding, but I've got that nonsense off my plate now, and I'm in much less pain than I have been for MANY YEARS, so I'm now more confident of being able to DO whatever I need to do to survive financially. Working while injured has been a NIGHTMARE for many years. I hope that's over for the rest of my life! When I get some cash flow going again, I can get back to playing racquetball. I think I'm de-injured enough to play without the recurring secondary injuries that plagued me for over 20 years now. After many years of erratic non-performance . . . *I AM* READY TO PLAY AGAIN! =============================== AND MY LIFE'S WORK IS TAKING OFF! =============================== UCP is expanding in an extraordinary way. The alt.ucp group is still intermittent, but the UCP-list is functioning quite well while alt.ucp slowly gets its new feet under it. More and more people are DOING UCP! ============================ THE UCP WE HAS COME INTO BE! ============================ Actual communication with UCPeon *PEERS,* which was *PURE FANTASY* just three years ago, has now become a daily EXPECTATION! We have the materials that we feel we need to move UCP into the next global expansion stage. And we are doing many somethings with them! This bodes well for all my favorite fantasies! INCLUDING LIVING AS WE! Time is running out for me, but experience is running in to BE. =================== THANKS FOR PLAYING! =================== WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1069-1023046030-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 19:27:07 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.103]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52JR6O07326 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 19:27:06 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1069-1023046030-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n35.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 19:27:10 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 19:27:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 35443 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 19:27:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 19:27:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 19:27:10 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g52JQwI28551; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 19:26:58 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020602102206.01221a78@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 19:26:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Septic Tank? Maintenance Tips 7367yVYV1-185qsnEl16 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 308 On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > >On Sat, 1 Jun 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > > > >> Dear Abner > >> > >> You have a very creative sense of humor! > >> > >> And your spam souffle is marvelous! > >> > >> > >> KP > (===============) > Abner: > >Dear KP, > > > >I'm glad you found it tasty! > > > >I was in stitches when I wrote it. > > An excellent sign of good material! > > >Then when I got yr message and realized someone else thought it was > >funny, I began to line charge on it. I just kept reading it over and > >over roaring uncontrollably. When I quit doing that, my mind kept > >rolling it verbatim. It was really dumb! > > ?? WHY is it "dumb" to fully appreciate a work of art? Cause I couldn't figure out why it was so funny, and yet couldn't get enough of it! > The contemplation of perfection induces timeless satori. Exactly so. > Purrfection is where you find it! Even in absurdity. . . > >Since my attention was stuck on > >it I resolved to take a look at it. But first I went to see a lady who > >had just been informed that her husband is dying. > > > >When I finally got to run it, it was about frustration with this other > >group I have been contributing to. All my gifts have been denied, ruined, > >ignored, invalidated, rejected, stolen, or reduced. > > Probably were not perceived at all. > It looked like something else to them. > You were speaking over their heads! Not just speech. Research, sweat, and gold. > >Compared to this list, where so far my contributions have been > >appreciated, met with interest, enjoyment, intelligence, humor, > >understanding and feedback. > > I consider you an major asset to the list. The consideration is reciprocated. > I find your vision keen and your judgements well grounded. I agree, of course! But I have seen many people destroyed by what was in their blind spots; most recently a dear and old friend, of monumental learning, creativity and insight. The tragedy was that despite his many insights, and research into the fraud and deceptions of the medical profession, and his long involvement with other, more effective means of healing, he ultimately put himself into their hands...and they killed him. So, I keep an open mind, as best I can. And entertain the possibilty that someone else may see what I do not. > Your perceptions on how to APPLY UCP strike > me as those of someone who has DONE UCP. UCP is very familiar to me. > I love it when people learn before lecturing! I guess you love it when they don't too. And get to shred them into catfood. > And then *SPEAK* . . . THEIR TRUTH! What other truth is there? The only kind I know is scientific truth, gained through experiment and observation, and confirmed by others, and OWN TRUTH - accurate reporting on state of being. All the other so-called truths are really beliefs. > >So there was a lot of relief in this. > > Excellent! > > >Thanks for telling me that. > > > > abner > >abner@sdf.lonestar.org > > Thanks for posting! > > > KP > abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1070-1023047329-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 19:48:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52JmkO23396 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 19:48:46 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1070-1023047329-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 19:48:49 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 19:48:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 95753 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 19:48:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 19:48:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 19:48:48 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g52JmbX12754; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 19:48:37 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020602122254.0115eb68@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 19:48:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 309 On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > 55 AND STILL ALIVE! () () () () () * * * * * ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| /___\/___\/___\/___\/___\ HAPPY BIRTHDAY ! (wind blowing from the right today) abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1071-1023047781-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 19:56:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52JuHO28956 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 19:56:17 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1071-1023047781-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 19:56:21 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 19:56:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 43507 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 19:56:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 19:56:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 19:56:20 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.192]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA12118 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 14:56:18 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020602125240.011f0560@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 12:52:40 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] UCP MONTHLY TOTALSTATS: 01JUNE2002 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 310 UCP MONTHLY TOTALSTATS: 01JUNE2002 [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology =============== START 01 MAY 2002 REPORT:=============== SINCE: PAGE: VISITS: ======================================================== 30 MARCH 2002 VIRTUAL WITNESS 560 27 FEBRUARY 2002 UCP HOME PAGE 6,039 19 JANUARY 1999 NET-PROPHET.NET HOME PAGE 6,647 so in about the last two months the UCP site had almost as many visitors as the "main" net-prophet.net site did in over three years! =============== END 01 MAY 2002 REPORT:=============== Let's put the June report is a format that allows expansion: TOTAL VISITS TO SOME CRITICAL NET PROPHET PAGES: =============================================== PAGE: VIRTUAL WITNESS UCP HOME PAGE NET-PROPHET.NET SINCE: 30 MARCH 2002 27 FEBRUARY 2002 19 JANUARY 1999 01 MAY 560 [~ one month] 6,039 [~ two months] 6,647 [~28 months] 01 JUNE 711 [+ 151] 6,857 [+ 818] 6,907 [+ 260] The HUGE SURGE that was going on for the last couple of months has cooled off, but the stats are still going up. The UCP main page is not getting 100 visits a day right now, but still averages about 25! And we have new and improved materials, so WE ARE READY for another big surge! Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1072-1023047878-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 19:57:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52JvrO29710 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 19:57:53 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1072-1023047878-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 19:57:58 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 19:57:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 22851 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 19:57:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 19:57:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 19:57:57 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.150] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 19:57:57 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020602122254.0115eb68@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 19:57:57 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 311 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > > > 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Well, Happy Birthday, KP! I honestly thought you are perhaps somewhere around 40 based on your energy. wow. One question regarding soemthing you have mentioned in your post: > I've been doing a lot of > meditation / yoga and got it fixed enough to work out! > It's not right yet, but it's much better . . . and working! Meditation and UCP seem to be somewhat similar activities. How do they mesh together? Do they complement each other? How do they compare? Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1073-1023048023-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 20:00:21 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52K0JO01975 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:00:19 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1073-1023048023-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 20:00:23 -0000 X-Sender: ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 20:00:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 11910 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 20:00:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 20:00:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 20:00:22 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g52K0BM19979; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:00:11 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020602122254.0115eb68@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Alexander Kxpke X-Yahoo-Profile: ucpalex MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:00:11 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 312 On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 12:22:54 -0700 > From: Net Prophet > Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [UCP-List] 55 AND STILL ALIVE! > > > > 55 AND STILL ALIVE! But more alive than most can even imagine. > [Posted to: > [emailist: "UCP-list" > [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology > > > June 1, 2002 > > Well . . . I made it to OLD! > > My lingering love afair with middle age died decaydently. > > I am now eligible to move into Adults-Only housing. > That's not Adult as in able-to-make-babies. That's > Adult as in 55-and-Over, No-Babies-Here! housing. > > The antechamber of the crematorium has opened! > > Where am I now? > > 55, 40 or 50 pounds overweight, in fairly good shape > for not having worked out for maybe a year. I got on > my trampoline with 5 pound hand weights and did 20 > minutes of jumping around. My pulse was 140. When > I was working out last year I used 8 pound hand weights > and 5 pound ankle weights, and my pulse was about 140. > > So I'm obviously not as pumped as I was a year ago. > > On the other hand, I came back from a year off and > worked out and it was easy. And I *DE-INJURED* a > 20-year SEVERE injury last year, so I am almost pain > free. Another big clunk in my neck makes me happy! > A week or so ago my left shoulder was collapsing in > constant pain that was interfering with my sleep and > trying to make me psychotic. I couldn't raise my left > elbow without severe pain. I've been doing a lot of > meditation / yoga and got it fixed enough to work out! > It's not right yet, but it's much better . . . and working! > > Financially, I'm just above homeless. I spent much of > the last three months depending on *PROMISES* that > turned out to be *FALSE PRETENSES*, which was not > financially rewarding, but I've got that nonsense off my > plate now, and I'm in much less pain than I have been > for MANY YEARS, so I'm now more confident of being > able to DO whatever I need to do to survive financially. If people would just give a few bucks or whatever they know they can do without then you would be alright! I'll donate right after sending this mail. Who else is thankful and willing to show it? > Working while injured has been > a NIGHTMARE for many years. > > I hope that's over for the rest of my life! > > When I get some cash flow going again, I can get back > to playing racquetball. I think I'm de-injured enough to > play without the recurring secondary injuries that plagued > me for over 20 years now. After many years of erratic > non-performance . . . *I AM* READY TO PLAY AGAIN! Great! 80) > =============================== > AND MY LIFE'S WORK IS TAKING OFF! > =============================== You made it! > UCP is expanding in an extraordinary way. > > The alt.ucp group is still intermittent, but > the UCP-list is functioning quite well while > alt.ucp slowly gets its new feet under it. > > More and more people are DOING UCP! No way of stopping it now. > ============================ > THE UCP WE HAS COME INTO BE! > ============================ > > Actual communication with UCPeon *PEERS,* > which was *PURE FANTASY* just three years > ago, has now become a daily EXPECTATION! > > We have the materials that we feel we need to > move UCP into the next global expansion stage. > > And we are doing many somethings with them! > > This bodes well for all my favorite fantasies! > > INCLUDING LIVING AS WE! The world comes together through UCP. > Time is running out for me, but > experience is running in to BE. > > =================== > THANKS FOR PLAYING! > =================== Thanks for sharing!! > WE'LCOME TO > *ACTUALLITY!* > > THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR > ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! > > RESET YOUR SELF! > REBOOT YOUR MIND! > RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS > REINSTALL RATIONALITY > DEBUG AND UPGRADE > YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING > SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! > N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* > > YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY > FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. > > FIND OUT HOW > TO *FIND OUT!* > > WHAT YOU DO > IS UP TO YOU! > > THE WAY > TO *SEE* > *IS* UCP! > > *DO* UCP > AND SEE! > > > O > --- ) > \ > > > Konchok Penday > > Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER > Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm > Formulator and Disseminator of the > Universal Conscious Practice: > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev > Technical hExcellence Award :-) > Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: > http://net-prophet.net/gc/ > Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: > http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ > REvolutionary Architectural System: > http://net-prophet.net/subs/ > Better Banjo Bureau > http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ > Cottage Industries > http://net-prophet.net/ci/ > > > ########################################### > > N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! > WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! > YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! > http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ > > *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! > *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! > > YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! > USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! > > UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS > SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, > ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! > > ########################################### > > > Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via > paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! > > GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net > RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! > EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! > UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! > > UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology > ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! > Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm > KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. > > UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ > > "UCP EMAIL LIST" > To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: > http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Best Wishes, Alexander K. ucpalex@sdf.lonestar.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1074-1023048200-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 20:03:16 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.80]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52K3FO04502 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:03:16 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1074-1023048200-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 20:03:20 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 20:03:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 64076 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 20:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 20:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 20:03:19 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.173] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 20:03:19 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 20:03:15 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: Septic Tank? Maintenance Tips 7367yVYV1-185qsnEl16 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 313 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > What other truth is there? > The only kind I know is scientific truth, gained through experiment and > observation, and confirmed by others, and OWN TRUTH - accurate reporting > on state of being. All the other so-called truths are really beliefs. Very well said. >From myself I'd add that Belief is a remarkably accurate reporting on own state of being :) best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1075-1023050626-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 20:43:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52KhiA06110 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:43:44 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1075-1023050626-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 20:43:47 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 20:43:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 79799 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 20:43:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 20:43:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 20:43:46 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.192]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA18376 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:43:44 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020602134003.011301e8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.32.20020602122254.0115eb68@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 13:40:03 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 314 Net Prophet wrote: >> 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Oleg: >Well, Happy Birthday, KP! Thanks! >I honestly thought you are perhaps somewhere around 40 based on your >energy. wow. I feel about 20, INSIDE, . . . when I'm not dying. >One question regarding soemthing you have mentioned in your post: >> I've been doing a lot of >> meditation / yoga and got it fixed enough to work out! >> It's not right yet, but it's much better . . . and working! >Meditation and UCP seem to be somewhat similar activities. How do >they mesh together? Do they complement each other? How do they >compare? > >Best, >Oleg UCP *IS* A MEDITATION *METHOD.* A loosely guided meditation, if you will. I find many of my best UCP sessions happen while I am sitting on the floor, with my eyes closed or open as I feel, and I'm stretching my back and joints while I stretch my mind and ideas. One of the things I have to keep looking at is where I am . . . in an often pain-wracked body. Yoga is the DOING something about that based on the meditation or percpetion of WHAT IS NOW FOR ME . . . AS I AM. It's very difficult to get my attention free to look at WHATEVER when I am fighting with *PAIN NOW!* That's how it WAS for me for over 40 years, but it's *MUCH* better now! Meditation helps yoga allows meditation to work more effectively in more areas. You could call yoga a physical meditation which helps create state of body allowing a calm state of mind for spiritual SEEING. Best Wishes, KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1076-1023050827-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 20:47:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52Kl4A08877 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:47:04 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1076-1023050827-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 20:47:08 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 20:47:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 33519 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 20:47:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 20:47:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 20:47:06 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g52KktJ20145; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:46:55 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:46:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: Septic Tank? Maintenance Tips 7367yVYV1-185qsnEl16 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 315 On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > What other truth is there? The only kind I know is scientific > > truth, gained through experiment and observation, and confirmed by > > others, and OWN TRUTH - accurate reporting on state of being. All > > the other so-called truths are really beliefs. > > Very well said. > > >From myself I'd add that Belief is a remarkably accurate reporting on > own state of being :) Oh. Yes. Thanks. I do see what you mean. But unless reported *as a belief* it is usually mistaken as primary data. That's why the Christians and Muslims slaughter each other. That's also why if God tells you to kill someone, be sure to get it in writing. ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1077-1023057532-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Jun 2 22:38:48 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g52Mclp02354 for ; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:38:47 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1077-1023057532-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Jun 2002 22:38:52 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 2 Jun 2002 22:38:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 50593 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2002 22:38:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Jun 2002 22:38:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jun 2002 22:38:51 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g52Mceq21065; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:38:40 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 22:38:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 316 On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > > > Taking acid to understand an acid tripper :) > > > > Oh. Did you learn anything? > > A *lot*. Way more than I expected. > > > > > > It took a few dozens of hours of processing (and several > years of > > > > > living) to integrate the experience. > > > > Sounds like a heavy trip! > > As heavy as they get. Major case of miscalculating your dosage :) Tee-hee. Bye, Oleg! > > Ram Dass told of going to be with his guru in India. He took along > 3 or > > 4 doses of acid just in case he should want to do some tripping. > His guru > > found out and asked him for some. Ram Dass gave him one of the > pills. > > The guru kept waving his hand, saying come on - come on! He took the > > whole supply and swallowed it instantly. Ram Dass thought the guy > would > > drop to the floor but he kept up the conversation, saying > periodically, > > "Interesting!" "Interesting!" Finally, after hours of this, the guru > > said, I really don't see what you take this stuff for. > > A healthy person might not appreciate the value of antibiotics. You analogy is pretty good this time ;) > By the way, I don't know what kind of stuff all these people (for I > have heard the same story being told about the Beatles) were getting > but it is perfectly possible to have a normal conversation of 4 tabs > of fairly strong acid. How much is 4 tabs in micrograms? >To outsiders one will appear a little spaced > out but by no means freaky or comatose (while from inside the entire > Universe might be going to pieces). I have seen that done a few times > and done it myself. So make it 20 for believability :) I don't know about the Beatles. I used to get pure Sandoz stuff in sealed vials. That was before that clown Leary came on the scene with Ram Dass and made a big dog-and-pony show, and spoiled everything. I imagined we could take the country little-by-little. Leary wanted to be a hero (there ARE no heroes, L. said, probably meaning before Leary) and tried to take the country by storm. Of course he attracted massive resistance, as we knew he would. We thought for a while that the only people it made crazy were the shrinks. The rest of the people it made sane. Well one night we invited this guy Freddie, a German, and so paranoid he had a sign at eye-level on his door so that when you went out of his place you read: ACHTUNG !! YOU ARE ENTERING ENEMY TERRITORY ! We were in the third story ballroom of my house. I went downstairs to get snacks or something. All of a sudden I hear this massive sickening THUD! It shook the house. There is Freddie lying in a pool of blood at the bottom of the stair well. He had fallen about 24 feet. I called the ambulance and it arrived with a pair of steely-eyed cops who wanted to know what happened. I told them I didn't know; that he was an overnight guest, and must have tried to go downstairs to piss without turning on the light and fallen over the stair railing. They were writing it all down, and asking the questions over and over and not making much headway. Finally one of them suggested they look upstairs. I wrapped my arms around them both, very tenderly, and said I think I've had enough for one night. It's late. Why don't you boys run along now. I'll still be here tomorrow. As I was saying this I walked them right out the door onto the porch. They seemed kind of confused. They were used to asking questions and giving orders, not being shepherded around like children! A few minutes later the hospital called, and a doctor said Freddie was raving, and he wanted to know if he had been taking any kind of drugs. I made a series of rapid calculations and decided that Freddie's best interest and ours were the same: accurate information would not lead to a better outcome. Let the doctors start from zero and do what they know how to do: discover and treat organic damage. So I said, well how could I know that? He seemed OK earlier in the evening. Freddie was lucky he fell flat. He spent about a week in the hospital and then went home. He couldn't tell me what happened. What I learned was not only that I could pass *casual* inspection, but the most intense professional scrutiny and questioning; drop the merry-go-round and climb into the mind set of a respectable householder, devise plausible scenario, strategize, draw on store of medical and practical information and decide if and when to lie. I also learned, from another guy, whom I had to talk down from a very ugly psychotic break in which he was threatening terrible violence, not to trust people you don't know VERY well, and that if they do flip, your only chance is to hang in there with them, do not oppose them, but rather maintain your COMPLETE attention on THEM. If you are able to do that, and ignore fears for your personal safety, then THEY will have to ignore the insanity they are running in order to be able to maintain their complete attention on YOU. > We aren't using Sumerian here, are we? :) If I knew that language, > perhaps I could fluently describe all my acid trips: "It was just > common b'rdul and then it turned into two magnificient hal-krds'wa" Mash Balaganta Tabari! Say that a few times and see if it evokes anything. > > The Zen masters cut to the bone: Your ordinary mind is the Buddha! > > > > Nirvana is Samsara ! > > I was trying to say something like that in a couple of my posts, but > Zen masters do it much better :) Yes. Also they have sticks. If I had a cyber-stick I would thwack you a couple times and rattle you bones and REALLY give you something to THINK about. > Or as a friend of mine once putit "How do you know you are not > enlightened?" What's your answer? > Best, > Oleh Best, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1078-1023064559-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 00:35:55 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g530ZtH11964 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 00:35:55 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1078-1023064559-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 00:36:00 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 00:35:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 54955 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 00:35:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 00:35:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 00:35:57 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.115] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A9E6234C0066; Sun, 02 Jun 2002 20:35:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFAB9E9.4B74C3B0@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <3.0.6.32.20020602122254.0115eb68@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020602134003.011301e8@net-prophet.net> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 20:35:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 317 Hi KP, Happy Birthday. If I had any money after I pay for medical expenses, I would surely be glad to send you some. I chuckled when you mentioned you were no longer middle aged. I had that very thought today. I never was quite sure what the age span for middle age is, but I surely am beyond that point now. I did want to comment on your saying that doing your process is similar to meditation. My own knowledge of meditation is to repeat a mantra and as different thoughts come to my mind, I note that I am thinking and then bring the focus back to the mantra. The same is true if I am focusing on the breath; the moment thoughts come, they are noted and let go and the focus is again on the breathing or mantra. To tell you the truth I have never been a person who meditates regularly. I did have a chance to do it recently, when I had to sit and wait for a couple of hours. It was helpful then and I didn't experience much of that antsy feeling that I get when forced to wait. Perhaps you use a method of meditation that I am not familiar with. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1079-1023065269-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 00:47:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g530liH21318 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 00:47:44 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1079-1023065269-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 00:47:49 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 00:47:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 34315 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 00:47:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 00:47:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 00:47:48 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.115] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id ACAD8BF700F0; Sun, 02 Jun 2002 20:47:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFABCAF.D8913A3C@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 20:47:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 318 I confess Abba, that I was kind of shocked when I read your response "I made a series of rapid calculations and decided that Freddie's best interest and ours were the same: accurate information would not lead to a better outcome." I could see where it might be best for you. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1080-1023079810-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 04:50:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g534o6w24336 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 04:50:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1080-1023079810-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 04:50:10 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 04:50:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 19091 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 04:50:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 04:50:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 04:50:09 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 04:50:09 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 04:50:09 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 319 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > Sounds like a heavy trip! > > > > As heavy as they get. Major case of miscalculating your dosage :) > > Tee-hee. Bye, Oleg! yes, I was comletely out of touch with everyday reality for 12 hours. Came to my senses incarcerated in the local police dept. with a very vague recollection of what brought me there. Luckily, they just let me go :) > > > By the way, I don't know what kind of stuff all these people (for I > > have heard the same story being told about the Beatles) were getting > > but it is perfectly possible to have a normal conversation of 4 tabs > > of fairly strong acid. > > How much is 4 tabs in micrograms? According to Psycholdelic Encyclopedia - it's usually from 0 to 200 micrograms. *shrug* Of course, if the guru was eating whole sheets then you should multiply the number by 100. But then I'd really doubt the credibility of the story. I know a guy who ate a whole sheet once (he was stupid enough to try to commit suicide that way). He was in coma for a month, but then fully recovered. > > I don't know about the Beatles. I used to get pure Sandoz stuff in > sealed vials. That was before that clown Leary came on the scene with > Ram Dass and made a big dog-and-pony show, and spoiled everything. Those were the days. Too bad I wasn't born then :) > > I imagined we could take the country little-by-little. Leary wanted to > be a hero (there ARE no heroes, L. said, probably meaning before Leary) > and tried to take the country by storm. Of course he attracted massive > resistance, as we knew he would. It's quite a feat to get kidnapped by FBI from a foreign country. You have to really work hard to get to that point. Quite a character, that Mr. leary. > > We thought for a while that the only people it made crazy were the > shrinks. The rest of the people it made sane. A frined of mine tried to kill another firned of mine when he flipped out on acid. Almost succeeded too. So yeah, it's not only shrinks. > > What I learned was not only that I could pass *casual* inspection, but the > most intense professional scrutiny and questioning; drop the > merry-go-round and climb into the mind set of a respectable householder, > devise plausible scenario, strategize, draw on store of medical and > practical information and decide if and when to lie. Yes, the potential of human psyche is amazing :) > > > We aren't using Sumerian here, are we? :) If I knew that language, > > perhaps I could fluently describe all my acid trips: "It was just > > common b'rdul and then it turned into two magnificient hal- krds'wa" > > Mash Balaganta Tabari! > > Say that a few times and see if it evokes anything. Hm.. nothing so far... what is it supposed to evoke? By the way, There's a novel by Pelevin (I have mentioned this guy before) where the protagonist gets a bad acid trip and calls his shaman friend asking for help. The shaman gives him mantra: "Om melafefon bva kha sha". The mantra works perfectly and calms the guy down. Afterwards it turns out it means "Please give me another cucumber" in Hebrew. You can read the entire story here: http://www.lib.ru/PELEWIN/pokolenie_engl.txt Recommended BIG TIME! > > Zen masters do it much better :) > > Yes. Also they have sticks. If I had a cyber-stick I would thwack you a > couple times and rattle you bones and REALLY give you something to THINK > about. Heh. Don't worry about THAT. I get hit, punched , thrwon to the ground and so on many times every week - at my aikido classes :) Never makes me want to think - quite opposite, makes me want to do stuff. > > > Or as a friend of mine once putit "How do you know you are not > > enlightened?" > > What's your answer? "I don't know that." Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1081-1023085655-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 06:27:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g536RUU12446 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 06:27:31 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1081-1023085655-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 06:27:36 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 06:27:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 18850 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 06:27:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 06:27:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 06:27:35 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.209]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA02930 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 01:27:32 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020602232347.00f96460@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CFAB9E9.4B74C3B0@directus.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20020602122254.0115eb68@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020602134003.011301e8@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 23:23:47 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 320 Judy wrote: >Hi KP, > >Happy Birthday. Thanks! >If I had any money after I pay for medical >expenses, I would surely be glad to send you some. I'm embarrassed! >I chuckled when you mentioned you were no longer middle aged. I had >that very thought today. I never was quite sure what the age span for >middle age is, but I surely am beyond that point now. It's a scary thought. >I did want to comment on your saying that doing your process is similar >to meditation. UCP is a method or form of meditation. >My own knowledge of meditation is to repeat a mantra and >as different thoughts come to my mind, I note that I am thinking and >then bring the focus back to the mantra. That may help you be more aware of your thoughts, and how difficult it is to stay focused on one thing. But the idea is not to stay focused on one thing, but to follow attention through many areas and integrate everything of interest as you can. Not to CONTROL your attention by KEEPING IT on one designated FIXED subject or object, but to FOLLOW IT wherever IT wants to go, and remain interested in where your attention IS already going. Watching your breath is not as interesting to me as watching your thoughts, and the patterns of thoughts that arise naturally. Attempting to FIX attention simply PREVENTS the NATURAL flow of attention from working. >The same is true if I am >focusing on the breath; the moment thoughts come, they are noted and let >go and the focus is again on the breathing or mantra. OK. That is A kind of meditation. There are many others. I consider that kind of meditation might be helpful to get you to a calm enough state of mind that you could start to consider an active kind of meditation like UCP . . . but why not just jump in an DO UCP to start? >To tell you the truth I have never been a person who meditates regularly. OK. Neither am I. >I did have a chance to do it recently, when I had to sit and >wait for a couple of hours. It was helpful then and I didn't experience >much of that antsy feeling that I get when forced to wait. Excellent! >Perhaps you use a method of meditation that I am not familiar with. > >Judy UCP is a meditation method. I also apply it to simply sitting and doing whatever I make up as I do it, yoga, stretching, etc. When I'm stretching is a good time to look at my own thoughts instead of what's on the screen, so my yoga time and my UCP/Meditation time are often the same thing. So meditation gets used as a blanket term including rolling around on the floor twisting my neck, while asking the UCP questions, running theoretical business scenarios, sitting still cross-legged and looking at where I am now with closed eyes, etc. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1082-1023086254-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 06:37:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g536bTU19720 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 06:37:29 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1082-1023086254-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 06:37:34 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 06:37:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 28049 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 06:37:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 06:37:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 06:37:33 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.209]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA05958 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 01:37:31 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020602233314.00f96460@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CFABCAF.D8913A3C@directus.net> References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 23:33:14 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 321 Judy: >I confess Abba, that I was kind of shocked when I read your response Given the accident had happened, I was impressed by his capable handling of a very dangerous situation. I once lived with a guy who had tried to fly while on acid from a fourth floor window over concrete. He broke a LOT of bones, but eventually recovered. Maybe Freddie tried to fly? >"I made a series of rapid calculations and decided that Freddie's >best interest and ours were the same: accurate information would not >lead to a better outcome." >I could see where it might be best for you. > >Judy I could see where it was probably best for Freddie. I think Abner came through for him big time. KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1083-1023105362-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 11:55:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.73]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53Btvd16559 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:55:58 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1083-1023105362-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n18.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 11:56:03 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 11:56:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 90140 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 11:56:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 11:56:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 11:56:01 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.106] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A949457B011E; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 07:55:53 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFB594D.54D8D212@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <3.0.6.32.20020602122254.0115eb68@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020602134003.011301e8@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020602232347.00f96460@net-prophet.net> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 07:55:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 322 Hi KP, Thanks for explaining your use of meditation and UCP. I am prone to have a fixed idea about things based on what I have read and what I have been told based on buddhist practice. I am still doing ucp. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1084-1023109025-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 12:57:02 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53Cv0H08771 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 12:57:00 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1084-1023109025-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 12:57:06 -0000 X-Sender: esjwilds@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 12:57:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 86710 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 12:57:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 12:57:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.85) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 12:57:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.138] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 12:57:04 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "esjwilds" X-Originating-IP: 203.130.205.227 X-Yahoo-Profile: esjwilds MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 12:57:04 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] (unknown) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: F X-Keywords: X-UID: 323 Hello once again, It's time for session 4. Where am I now? Wondering how long I am going to be in the internet place today. I want to ake it clear that I am intending to type what I am thinking at exactly the moment it occurs to me. I intend to write down my exact thoughts. Future Could be in a place where I am writing what I think about my thoughts. In a place where I am not writing the original thought, but a thought about the original thought. Compare to now Uncensored thoughts are the ones that I am interested in. There is a difference between summarising the contents of my thoughts and in the future place. Wait.....My intention is to write my thoughts and not what I think ABOUT my thoughts. So my thought is that I am not happy with the title Future. That title does not feel like an adequate description of where I think that place is. Past What I am thinking is that yesterday I became aware while I was writing my post that I was not writing the actual thoughts. I am summarising my thoughts. The sentences do not represent the form of the thought itself. I will write the thoughts alone. Now I am aware of the original thought. Future I write down the original thought without modification. Now What am I doing? Am I abstracting? I want to focus on the details. My life. I don't want to deal with abstractions. I want to focus on something concrete. Future I take a concrete situation from my life and deal with it. Now I choose a situation to deal with. Past I want to respond to all the comments which I have been given by others. I want to say what I think about the fact that my posts have been duplicated on alt.technology.com when I was not aware that would occur and my original intention was to post on ucplist alone. I want to give my response after seeing the other posts that are on this list that are not related to mine. I am disappointed when I sign on today that there is only one reply to my third session. I am heartened when I read the response and think that if that was the only one then that was enough. Now I am satisfied with that response. That is a true response. It only takes one person to truly care and that feels enough to me. Maybe there will be more responses but as long as there is someone who is *not me* listening to me and actually HEARING what I have to say then I am being heard and understood. Any more than that one person and it is a duplication of that understnading but it does not feel to me as though it becomes any greater for the fact that it is duplicated. I think each individual will have a different response to my posts but it is the intention to hear what I am actually saying that means the most to me. How each person reacts to my posts does not concern me right now. What matters is that the intention of the reader is to be aware of what I am attempting to say. The reaction of the reader is his/her own and of course 100% valid because of that. Future Reader reacts negatively. If you hate my guts after reading that post then that is the best reaction for you. That is the right reaction for you. IN my experience Now I intend to remember to use this phrase (in my experience) as often as possible because it reminds me that things make the most sense to other people when I remember to relate to my own experience. When I can explain EXACTLY the process that I have gone through and the reason WHY I have come to the conclusion that I have come to then it seems that I am understood by others and they do not question my conclusions but see why I have come to that conclusion. Past I get a text message from my sister telling me that she is worried about me and she would be grateful if I would ring her when I get the chance so that she can put my mind at rest. What shall i do? I have two options ring her or not. Do I want to ring her? She wants me to ring her, why? Because she is worried about me. She wants to know if I am ok. Ok, so if I am able to set her mind at rest I would rather do that. I will go and phone her but remain aware that my intention in doing so is to be completely and 100% honest about what i am doing, where I am and what I am thinking. If I am true to my thoughts, my process, then I have nothing to fear. The only thing I have to fear is the chance that I might hide something from myself and therefore not be clear in the first place what is going on. If I know what is going on then it is perfectly possible for me to be clear with her and then it is up to her what she does with it. I am at the wartel and I get the connection. I say 'Hello, just thought I'd give you a ring and see if I can set your mind at rest.' I am responding to her questions. She is the one who is worried. She is the one who has questions that need resolving. I am not pre-empting what she will say to me. I am taking the time to make sure that I have really heard what she is saying to me and that I am responding to her thoughts, her fears and not my idea about what she is thinking. I am not worried about the fact that she is worried. She is the one who is worried and not me. I do not need to take on her fear. If there is anything I can do to set her mind at rest I will do it and my intention is to be aware that defensive reaction will get in the way of that process. I must be clear on exactly what she is saying and if I react defensively to what she is saying then that will become a barrier between her words and my understanding. I answer all her questions. I tell her where I am. I tell her what I have been doing. She is reassured. She tells me that now she understands what I have been doing. She tells me that she was worried I was going to a place outside of her understanding. She tells me that she had some fear that in that place she would no longer be able to communicate with me. She tells me that she thought if I was in that place I would have become someone different. She tells me she was afraid that she would no longer recognise me. She tells me that she was afraid of losing the me that she knows. She tells me that she thought I was in a place that was not normal. In a place where I no longer wanted to do normal things. In a place where I would not want to eat chocolate biscuits and watch television. And that if I was in that place.... She would miss me. I would not be interested in doing the things that she wanted to. She would miss communication with me. She would miss sharing time with me. Now I think she thought I was mad or going mad. I think my mother thought I was mad or going mad. I think they were not aware of the whole picture. When they thought I was mad they were seeing a partial representation of where I was and could not imagine how I could possibly get to that place without being crazy. All it took was for me to explain EXACTLY how I got to that place and then they had understanding, awareness of where I was. Suddenly it makes sense to them. There was a time when I thought I was crazy. I want to write fiction, or not now. I am thinking about a time which is not now. I want to write about that time. I recognise that that moment is not now. I know that moment is a moment in my past experience. I cannot write about that moment under the heading of now. Well, maybe I can because i am thinking about it now, but the idea of doing UCP seems to be the ability to bring awareness to the fact that what is being seen at any point can be what is currently coming from the external surroundings, or from an interior perspective. This interior perspective is in some way not now? Either a potential possible situation or a real past situation. I have either already had this experience or I can imagine having this experience. I am concerned that it seems as though doing UCP calls for the sequence of headings now, future, now, past, but to me it feels uncomfortable to write future when I know that what I want to look at is past. I don't want to seem as though I am antagonising the principles of this system. I find myself in this position. I want to be honest. I will write my thoughts down exactly as they occur. That seems to be the best way. The way of truth, being true to what I am experiencing. So I want to read back and remember what the scene is that I wanted to look at before. Now I remember, the time when I thought I was mad. Well, the point is I think simplicity is best. I think the use of four words is ADMIRABLE beyond question. I think UCP is a fantastically simple and direct way of obtaining direct experience of the fact that awareness can be on actuality or possibility. That is the way I see it, that is the effect that UCP has had on me. By doing this process I have seen that by forcing myself to break up my thoughts into the headings NOW, PAST, and FUTURE, that in all these cases there is awareness and that this awareness is movable, directable. I can choose to focus on what is infront of me externally, I can choose to focus on what may possibly be infront of me externally but is not currently infront of me (this seems to have 2 sub-categories- already experinced, PAST, and yet to be experienced, FUTURE) I am only writing about this because I felt that my attention was on a place that is not now, and that therefore I wanted to write about it. A place where I thought I was mad. I have read some of the discussion about the headings and the whole NOT NOW thing. My experience has been that the heading Future can lead me equally to where I don't want to be as well as where I do. I have not gone to a place where I don't want to be in my online recorded sessions but when I am going about my daily business I find my self saying 'where could i be?' and it comes out a place where I don't want to be. Remind myself, in MY EXPERIENCE. I have been abstracting again. I feel that abstraction is less clear than personalising. My experience up to now is that I find the words Now, Future and Past as complete, enough, the bare essentials. The bare essentials are what I want. I want simplicity. I want effectiveness. I want directness. I want the shortest possible route. I want the least possible time. I want the biggest possible effect. I want to do it by myself. So far my experience is that UCP involves using those four words in order so that my awareness is concentrated on seeing, on seeing me. I see me, I see my life, I see my thoughts, I see my experience, I don't see abstractions. So still I am left with the question in my head. What heading will I use? I will use the heading Past as that is what I feel most comfortable with, my attention is on a past scene and the other biggest most important part of the UCP definition- in my experience- is that WHEREVER the awareness is, that is the perfect place for the awareness to be. Yes, so perhaps the headings are a better way to understand - where is the awareness. In that case seems to me that there are only three places where the awareness can be anyway. It can be in the Present. Oh, new thought, two places and the second is a sub-category. The second category is Not the Present. The second category includes the Past and the Future. Now where do I want to go next....Thinking about looking at definitions of Present Past and Future. My mind loves abstractions and definitions. But there is another thought. My intention is to personalise. My intention is to concentrate on my experience. I do not desire to concentrate on abstractions that have no meaning, no bearing on my experience. I want to see ME, Esther, and my definitions, whilst they are mine, are not ME. Ok so I want to make it clear that I had a dilemma about which heading to use. I want you to understand what that dilemma was. I want you to know why I choose to use the heading past. I want to know what you think about that. There can be no agreement or disagreement. This is my choice. I am choosing to do that. This is happening now. You do not have the power to affect my choice. But my choice may have an effect on you. You might have a response to my choice, or you may not. It may not matter to you what the hell I write in this post. All ways I am doing what I am doing. The interesting thing is that there is relationship. There will be people who read this post. This post will hold some meaning for those who read it. Whatever that meaning is will be a reflection of what holds importance for that person. Oh dear oh dear oh dear. I am abstracting again. SORRY SORRY!!! What I mean is that I have discovered that I am in relationship. I have a reaction to all things that I come across in my day. I have a reaction to each thing that I read, I see, I hear, I taste, I smell. Future- (HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA) Now i am plain amused. I have had to jump back from the point with a star because guess what - I discovered that i had jumped to the future without even realising it! Perhaps if I went back and read what I have written under the category of Now i would discover that i had already jumped time frame without noticing it. Oh shit, now it's getting complicated because I have split the time frame. I think I will put this post back where it belongs under the description of the future. I just want to make it clear what happened. But how best to do that I wonder... I know i've just realised that by cutting and pasting and putting these words back in the order they occured timewise you can read that heading Future as a footnote heading for the paragraph above it. The point is that while I was writing that paragraph I had no awareness of the fact that it was a Future place because I was thinking about it now. Well, well. The point is that I am attempting to write a stream of consciousness. I am attempting to reproduce my thoughts exactly as they happen. I am attempting to do that whilst holding awareness of this process which is called UCP. That means I am attempting to see the difference between thoughts which are located in the present- what is actually happening NOW, and thoughts which are stimulated by the imagined future or the real past. Past I recognise that what I am thinking about is linked to an event which already happened. I jump back to the top of the paragraph and I write the heading past. Or, alternatively, I run out of things to say and so I ask myself the question does any situation which happened in the past come to mind. Now I think that is what happened. At any rate i know that sometimes I jump back in the text to put the heading and sometimes I put the heading first and then write the following text. I am writing the text. I want to represent my thoughts and my thinking process as accurately and as clearly as possible. I want to be able to communicate that process to others. For this reason I do everything on the posting screen. I do not use the online witness because I choose to record my thoughts just as they are,as they happen. I think this is the most useful way for me to enter into communication with others. I think this is the best way of being honest. Of being who and what I am. I wonder if all my dilemmas about headings are obscuring something. Well, anyway that is what I have been thinking about. Because this process of doing UCP is what I am attempting to discover. I am finding out what this process is for ME. Future I want to jump back and read what I have written above. Just as my hand is about to click on the mouse I realise that I have stopped recording my thoughts and I have jumped into an automatic reaction without being aware of my reason for doing so. I want to take away that heading of Future which I just put at the top of this paragraph. It seems misleading now. OH god, I'm getting really pissed off with all this thinking about BLOODY HEADINGS@!# Fuck the headings. Quite honestly that is how i feel right now. I'm sick to the back teeth of worrying about what bloody heading I should be using. Am I being clear. Am I not being clear. AAAAAAAArgh. I am trying something new. Before I have been writing my thoughts and adding the appropriate heading afterwards because that is what I thought UCP was about. I would write my thoughts and then jump back afterwards to show that I had ... OK, I am trying to make a accurate and thorough record of my thoughts exactly as they occur. that is the intention I am currently holding. But that is fucking crazy. I cannot possibly hope to accurately record every single thought as it occurs. I am a reasonable speed typist but my brain goes at lightening speed. I will be endlessly frustrated if that is my intention. I have experienced holding that intention for about the last 15 minutes and all it has done is lead me to frustration. That is what I thought I wanted. That is where I thought i was trying to get to. I tried getting there. It was frustrating. My awareness became focused on the fact that my awareness had moved and that movement had yet to be recorded on the screen. As I go to type that awareness on the screen it has jumped again. It seems not to be possible in my experience to accurately convey ALL the places that my awareness is travelling to and from by typing words on a screen. SO....I accept that my intention is no longer to accuratly record every single place that my awareness travels. I choose not to hold that intention. I try to find a new intention. Well, surely if I am no longer trying to record every single thought then I can accept the use of headings. I can accept the fact that by using headings I am no longer creating something that is an accurate representation of my thoughts because that is no longer what I am trying to do. By using headings I trust that I am not losing anything. I am not distorting the truth. I am creating a new representation. I have made it clear what I am doing and that is after all the FUNDAMENTAL intention. I thought that my use of headings was in some way sacrificing the creation of a clear picture. I was equating accuracy with clarity. It is my intention which needs to be clear. If my intention is clear then my actions will be effective. I no longer fear that by altering the text and jumping backwards to place a heading I will be mis- representing myself. I have told you what I am doing. I have explained why I am doing it. I understand myself why I choose to do it in this way. Now I feel like I have come to the end. I want to go back to the beginning and read what I have written today. But it is not an ending. This process continues in my mind night and day. Future While I read this entry I will be reacting. I will be thinking. Now Ha, my awareness just kicked in as I realised that I was scrolling up on this page. The future became the now without me being aware of it. Fuck, my brain is fast. My body is so tuned in to reactions that my awareness has trouble keeping up!!!!! You just have to laugh- I do (lots.) Past I want to check to see which was the next required heading in sequence after that huge long section. I am scrolling up to find the top of the next section and then I realise what I am doing. I realise I am focused on doing rather than on awareness of what I am doing. Now Im rather enjoying going back to the use of headings. Especially as they naturally seem to fall into the 'correct' order. Full Cirle. Fuck it's thundering. I have to post quickly or there may be a power surge. Often happens here in Java. I can't save it and it may get lost. Main point is, the time I spend here doing UCP, or finding out what UCP is to me, is time for meditation. Time for typing and holding intention to be aware of where my awareness is travelling to without actually carrying out any physical action beyond that of typing. It is different for that reason. I am attempting to focus my awareness at all times, but these sessions are special because for the amount of time that I am here and typing I choose not to carry out any other physical action other than typing. I am reducing my physical actions in order to bring my awareness onto my mental actions. This time is useful because it feeds into the moments when I leave the computer. It brings my attention more and more to be focused on my intention. My actions, my life are where it all comes together. It is not seperate it is all one, but there are different parts to the process. At some point I choose to log off. At some point I choose to stop recording the process for others to read, react and respond. I feel like there are many many more things I want to say but what are they really? THANK YOU once again for listening. THANK YOU once again for responding. I would like to look at my response to the fact that my posts have been duplicated on alt.clearing.technology but I want to end my session shortly and I think that would take some time. For the time being I ask if those who have posted my words there would consider not doing so for the future until such time as I have looked at my reaction and discovered why I am uncomfortable about that situation. It is your choice and I am not angry with you for having done so because you were not aware that I had specifically chosen this list. I assume that they were not posted there automatically but that you personally chose to post them there because there are other messages from this list which did not appear on that list. I would be interested to know why you chose to do that, and what your intention was. I may look at that reaction in my next session (always so many things to look at and then I have to actually lIVE my life and leave the internet place and this flashing computer screen!!!) Ok, time to hit the send button (no use for preview) I send before I read and check what the fuck I have been talking about for the last 3 hours. See you again soon. (Up to 14 hours now-10 to go!) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1085-1023124314-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 17:11:50 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53HBmH23495 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 17:11:48 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1085-1023124314-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 17:11:54 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 17:11:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 97577 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 17:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 17:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 17:11:53 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.132] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 17:11:52 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 17:11:51 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] One more quote Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 324 This one is by Uncle Al, a prolific Usenet figure. "What we don't know isn't what hurts us. What we know that isn't true causes the real pain." Uncle Al is one, uh, very interesting individual. Check out for yourself: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1086-1023128271-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 18:17:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53IHj704536 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:17:46 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1086-1023128271-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 18:17:51 -0000 X-Sender: pullgees@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 18:17:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 2986 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 18:17:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 18:17:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.93) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 18:17:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.176] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 18:17:49 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "pullgees" X-Originating-IP: 195.92.194.18 X-Yahoo-Profile: pullgees MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:17:48 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] (unknown) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 325 --- In ucplist@y..., "esjwilds" wrote: > Hello once again, > > It's time for session 4. > > Where am I now? > > Wondering how long I am going to be in the internet place today. I > want to ake it clear that I am intending to type what I am thinking > at exactly the moment it occurs to me. I intend to write down my > exact thoughts. > > Future > > Could be in a place where I am writing what I think about my > thoughts. In a place where I am not writing the original thought, > but a thought about the original thought. > > > Compare to now > > Uncensored thoughts are the ones that I am interested in. There is a > difference between summarising the contents of my thoughts and in the > future place. Wait.....My intention is to write my thoughts and not > what I think ABOUT my thoughts. So my thought is that I am not happy > with the title Future. That title does not feel like an adequate > description of where I think that place is. > > Past > What I am thinking is that yesterday I became aware while I was > writing my post that I was not writing the actual thoughts. I am > summarising my thoughts. The sentences do not represent the form of > the thought itself. I will write the thoughts alone. > > Now > I am aware of the original thought. > > Future > I write down the original thought without modification. > > Now > What am I doing? Am I abstracting? I want to focus on the details. > My life. I don't want to deal with abstractions. I want to focus on > something concrete. > > Future > I take a concrete situation from my life and deal with it. > > Now > I choose a situation to deal with. > > Past > I want to respond to all the comments which I have been given by > others. I want to say what I think about the fact that my posts have > been duplicated on alt.technology.com when I was not aware that would > occur and my original intention was to post on ucplist alone. I want > to give my response after seeing the other posts that are on this > list that are not related to mine. I am disappointed when I sign on > today that there is only one reply to my third session. I am > heartened when I read the response and think that if that was the > only one then that was enough. > > Now > I am satisfied with that response. That is a true response. It only > takes one person to truly care and that feels enough to me. Maybe > there will be more responses but as long as there is someone who is > *not me* listening to me and actually HEARING what I have to say then > I am being heard and understood. Any more than that one person and > it is a duplication of that understnading but it does not feel to me > as though it becomes any greater for the fact that it is duplicated. > I think each individual will have a different response to my posts > but it is the intention to hear what I am actually saying that means > the most to me. How each person reacts to my posts does not concern > me right now. What matters is that the intention of the reader is to > be aware of what I am attempting to say. The reaction of the reader > is his/her own and of course 100% valid because of that. > > > Future > Reader reacts negatively. If you hate my guts after reading that > post then that is the best reaction for you. That is the right > reaction for you. IN my experience > > Now > I intend to remember to use this phrase (in my experience) as often > as possible because it reminds me that things make the most sense to > other people when I remember to relate to my own experience. When I > can explain EXACTLY the process that I have gone through and the > reason WHY I have come to the conclusion that I have come to then it > seems that I am understood by others and they do not question my > conclusions but see why I have come to that conclusion. > > Past > I get a text message from my sister telling me that she is worried > about me and she would be grateful if I would ring her when I get the > chance so that she can put my mind at rest. What shall i do? I have > two options ring her or not. Do I want to ring her? She wants me to > ring her, why? Because she is worried about me. She wants to know > if I am ok. Ok, so if I am able to set her mind at rest I would > rather do that. I will go and phone her but remain aware that my > intention in doing so is to be completely and 100% honest about what > i am doing, where I am and what I am thinking. If I am true to my > thoughts, my process, then I have nothing to fear. The only thing I > have to fear is the chance that I might hide something from myself > and therefore not be clear in the first place what is going on. If I > know what is going on then it is perfectly possible for me to be > clear with her and then it is up to her what she does with it. I am > at the wartel and I get the connection. I say 'Hello, just thought > I'd give you a ring and see if I can set your mind at rest.' I am > responding to her questions. She is the one who is worried. She is > the one who has questions that need resolving. I am not pre- empting > what she will say to me. I am taking the time to make sure that I > have really heard what she is saying to me and that I am responding > to her thoughts, her fears and not my idea about what she is > thinking. I am not worried about the fact that she is worried. She > is the one who is worried and not me. I do not need to take on her > fear. If there is anything I can do to set her mind at rest I will > do it and my intention is to be aware that defensive reaction will > get in the way of that process. I must be clear on exactly what she > is saying and if I react defensively to what she is saying then that > will become a barrier between her words and my understanding. I > answer all her questions. I tell her where I am. I tell her what I > have been doing. She is reassured. She tells me that now she > understands what I have been doing. She tells me that she was > worried I was going to a place outside of her understanding. She > tells me that she had some fear that in that place she would no > longer be able to communicate with me. She tells me that she thought > if I was in that place I would have become someone different. She > tells me she was afraid that she would no longer recognise me. She > tells me that she was afraid of losing the me that she knows. She > tells me that she thought I was in a place that was not normal. In a > place where I no longer wanted to do normal things. In a place where > I would not want to eat chocolate biscuits and watch television. And > that if I was in that place.... She would miss me. I would not be > interested in doing the things that she wanted to. She would miss > communication with me. She would miss sharing time with me. > > Now > I think she thought I was mad or going mad. I think my mother > thought I was mad or going mad. I think they were not aware of the > whole picture. When they thought I was mad they were seeing a > partial representation of where I was and could not imagine how I > could possibly get to that place without being crazy. All it took > was for me to explain EXACTLY how I got to that place and then they > had understanding, awareness of where I was. Suddenly it makes sense > to them. There was a time when I thought I was crazy. I want to > write fiction, or not now. I am thinking about a time which is not > now. I want to write about that time. I recognise that that moment > is not now. I know that moment is a moment in my past experience. I > cannot write about that moment under the heading of now. Well, maybe > I can because i am thinking about it now, but the idea of doing UCP > seems to be the ability to bring awareness to the fact that what is > being seen at any point can be what is currently coming from the > external surroundings, or from an interior perspective. This > interior perspective is in some way not now? Either a potential > possible situation or a real past situation. I have either already > had this experience or I can imagine having this experience. I am > concerned that it seems as though doing UCP calls for the sequence of > headings now, future, now, past, but to me it feels uncomfortable to > write future when I know that what I want to look at is past. I > don't want to seem as though I am antagonising the principles of this > system. I find myself in this position. I want to be honest. I > will write my thoughts down exactly as they occur. That seems to be > the best way. The way of truth, being true to what I am > experiencing. So I want to read back and remember what the scene is > that I wanted to look at before. Now I remember, the time when I > thought I was mad. Well, the point is I think simplicity is best. I > think the use of four words is ADMIRABLE beyond question. I think > UCP is a fantastically simple and direct way of obtaining direct > experience of the fact that awareness can be on actuality or > possibility. That is the way I see it, that is the effect that UCP > has had on me. By doing this process I have seen that by forcing > myself to break up my thoughts into the headings NOW, PAST, and > FUTURE, that in all these cases there is awareness and that this > awareness is movable, directable. I can choose to focus on what is > infront of me externally, I can choose to focus on what may possibly > be infront of me externally but is not currently infront of me (this > seems to have 2 sub-categories- already experinced, PAST, and yet to > be experienced, FUTURE) I am only writing about this because I felt > that my attention was on a place that is not now, and that therefore > I wanted to write about it. A place where I thought I was mad. I > have read some of the discussion about the headings and the whole NOT > NOW thing. My experience has been that the heading Future can lead > me equally to where I don't want to be as well as where I do. I have > not gone to a place where I don't want to be in my online recorded > sessions but when I am going about my daily business I find my self > saying 'where could i be?' and it comes out a place where I don't > want to be. > > Remind myself, in MY EXPERIENCE. I have been abstracting again. I > feel that abstraction is less clear than personalising. My > experience up to now is that I find the words Now, Future and Past as > complete, enough, the bare essentials. The bare essentials are what > I want. I want simplicity. I want effectiveness. I want > directness. I want the shortest possible route. I want the least > possible time. I want the biggest possible effect. I want to do it > by myself. So far my experience is that UCP involves using those > four words in order so that my awareness is concentrated on seeing, > on seeing me. I see me, I see my life, I see my thoughts, I see my > experience, I don't see abstractions. So still I am left with the > question in my head. What heading will I use? I will use the > heading Past as that is what I feel most comfortable with, my > attention is on a past scene and the other biggest most important > part of the UCP definition- in my experience- is that WHEREVER the > awareness is, that is the perfect place for the awareness to be. > Yes, so perhaps the headings are a better way to understand - where > is the awareness. In that case seems to me that there are only three > places where the awareness can be anyway. It can be in the Present. > Oh, new thought, two places and the second is a sub-category. The > second category is Not the Present. The second category includes the > Past and the Future. > Now where do I want to go next....Thinking about looking at > definitions of Present Past and Future. My mind loves abstractions > and definitions. But there is another thought. My intention is to > personalise. My intention is to concentrate on my experience. I do > not desire to concentrate on abstractions that have no meaning, no > bearing on my experience. I want to see ME, Esther, and my > definitions, whilst they are mine, are not ME. Ok so I want to make > it clear that I had a dilemma about which heading to use. I want you > to understand what that dilemma was. I want you to know why I choose > to use the heading past. I want to know what you think about that. > There can be no agreement or disagreement. This is my choice. I am > choosing to do that. This is happening now. You do not have the > power to affect my choice. But my choice may have an effect on you. > You might have a response to my choice, or you may not. It may not > matter to you what the hell I write in this post. All ways I am > doing what I am doing. The interesting thing is that there is > relationship. > > > > There will be people who read this post. This post will hold some > meaning for those who read it. Whatever that meaning is will be a > reflection of what holds importance for that person. Oh dear oh dear > oh dear. I am abstracting again. SORRY SORRY!!! What I mean is > that I have discovered that I am in relationship. I have a reaction > to all things that I come across in my day. I have a reaction to > each thing that I read, I see, I hear, I taste, I smell. > > Future- (HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA) > > > Now i am plain amused. I have had to jump back from the point with a > star because guess what - I discovered that i had jumped to the > future without even realising it! Perhaps if I went back and read > what I have written under the category of Now i would discover that i > had already jumped time frame without noticing it. Oh shit, now it's > getting complicated because I have split the time frame. I think I > will put this post back where it belongs under the description of the > future. I just want to make it clear what happened. But how best to > do that I wonder... I know i've just realised that by cutting and > pasting and putting these words back in the order they occured > timewise you can read that heading Future as a footnote heading for > the paragraph above it. The point is that while I was writing that > paragraph I had no awareness of the fact that it was a Future place > because I was thinking about it now. Well, well. > > The point is that I am attempting to write a stream of > consciousness. I am attempting to reproduce my thoughts exactly as > they happen. I am attempting to do that whilst holding awareness of > this process which is called UCP. That means I am attempting to see > the difference between thoughts which are located in the present- > what is actually happening NOW, and thoughts which are stimulated by > the imagined future or the real past. > > Past > I recognise that what I am thinking about is linked to an event which > already happened. I jump back to the top of the paragraph and I > write the heading past. Or, alternatively, I run out of things to say > and so I ask myself the question does any situation which happened in > the past come to mind. > > Now > I think that is what happened. At any rate i know that sometimes I > jump back in the text to put the heading and sometimes I put the > heading first and then write the following text. I am writing the > text. I want to represent my thoughts and my thinking process as > accurately and as clearly as possible. I want to be able to > communicate that process to others. For this reason I do everything > on the posting screen. I do not use the online witness because I > choose to record my thoughts just as they are,as they happen. I > think this is the most useful way for me to enter into communication > with others. I think this is the best way of being honest. Of being > who and what I am. I wonder if all my dilemmas about headings are > obscuring something. Well, anyway that is what I have been thinking > about. Because this process of doing UCP is what I am attempting to > discover. I am finding out what this process is for ME. > > Future > I want to jump back and read what I have written above. Just as my > hand is about to click on the mouse I realise that I have stopped > recording my thoughts and I have jumped into an automatic reaction > without being aware of my reason for doing so. I want to take away > that heading of Future which I just put at the top of this > paragraph. It seems misleading now. OH god, I'm getting really > pissed off with all this thinking about BLOODY HEADINGS@!# Fuck the > headings. Quite honestly that is how i feel right now. I'm sick to > the back teeth of worrying about what bloody heading I should be > using. Am I being clear. Am I not being clear. AAAAAAAArgh. > > I am trying something new. Before I have been writing my thoughts > and adding the appropriate heading afterwards because that is what I > thought UCP was about. I would write my thoughts and then jump back > afterwards to show that I had ... > > OK, I am trying to make a accurate and thorough record of my > thoughts exactly as they occur. that is the intention I am currently > holding. > > But that is fucking crazy. I cannot possibly hope to accurately > record every single thought as it occurs. I am a reasonable speed > typist but my brain goes at lightening speed. I will be endlessly > frustrated if that is my intention. I have experienced holding that > intention for about the last 15 minutes and all it has done is lead > me to frustration. > > That is what I thought I wanted. That is where I thought i was > trying to get to. I tried getting there. It was frustrating. > > My awareness became focused on the fact that my awareness had moved > and that movement had yet to be recorded on the screen. As I go to > type that awareness on the screen it has jumped again. It seems not > to be possible in my experience to accurately convey ALL the places > that my awareness is travelling to and from by typing words on a > screen. > > SO....I accept that my intention is no longer to accuratly record > every single place that my awareness travels. I choose not to hold > that intention. I try to find a new intention. Well, surely if I am > no longer trying to record every single thought then I can accept the > use of headings. I can accept the fact that by using headings I am > no longer creating something that is an accurate representation of my > thoughts because that is no longer what I am trying to do. By using > headings I trust that I am not losing anything. I am not distorting > the truth. I am creating a new representation. I have made it clear > what I am doing and that is after all the FUNDAMENTAL intention. I > thought that my use of headings was in some way sacrificing the > creation of a clear picture. I was equating accuracy with clarity. > It is my intention which needs to be clear. If my intention is clear > then my actions will be effective. I no longer fear that by altering > the text and jumping backwards to place a heading I will be mis- > representing myself. I have told you what I am doing. I have > explained why I am doing it. I understand myself why I choose to do > it in this way. > > Now > I feel like I have come to the end. I want to go back to the > beginning and read what I have written today. But it is not an > ending. This process continues in my mind night and day. > > Future > While I read this entry I will be reacting. I will be thinking. > > Now > Ha, my awareness just kicked in as I realised that I was scrolling up > on this page. The future became the now without me being aware of > it. Fuck, my brain is fast. My body is so tuned in to reactions > that my awareness has trouble keeping up!!!!! You just have to laugh- > I do (lots.) > > Past > I want to check to see which was the next required heading in > sequence after that huge long section. I am scrolling up to find the > top of the next section and then I realise what I am doing. I > realise I am focused on doing rather than on awareness of what I am > doing. > > Now > Im rather enjoying going back to the use of headings. Especially as > they naturally seem to fall into the 'correct' order. > > Full Cirle. > > Fuck it's thundering. I have to post quickly or there may be a power > surge. Often happens here in Java. I can't save it and it may get > lost. > Main point is, the time I spend here doing UCP, or finding out what > UCP is to me, is time for meditation. Time for typing and holding > intention to be aware of where my awareness is travelling to without > actually carrying out any physical action beyond that of typing. It > is different for that reason. I am attempting to focus my awareness > at all times, but these sessions are special because for the amount > of time that I am here and typing I choose not to carry out any other > physical action other than typing. I am reducing my physical actions > in order to bring my awareness onto my mental actions. This time is > useful because it feeds into the moments when I leave the computer. > It brings my attention more and more to be focused on my intention. > My actions, my life are where it all comes together. It is not > seperate it is all one, but there are different parts to the > process. > > At some point I choose to log off. At some point I choose to stop > recording the process for others to read, react and respond. I feel > like there are many many more things I want to say but what are they > really? > > THANK YOU once again for listening. > > THANK YOU once again for responding. > > I would like to look at my response to the fact that my posts have > been duplicated on alt.clearing.technology but I want to end my > session shortly and I think that would take some time. For the time > being I ask if those who have posted my words there would consider > not doing so for the future until such time as I have looked at my > reaction and discovered why I am uncomfortable about that situation. > It is your choice and I am not angry with you for having done so > because you were not aware that I had specifically chosen this list. > I assume that they were not posted there automatically but that you > personally chose to post them there because there are other messages > from this list which did not appear on that list. I would be > interested to know why you chose to do that, and what your intention > was. I may look at that reaction in my next session (always so many > things to look at and then I have to actually lIVE my life and leave > the internet place and this flashing computer screen!!!) > > Ok, time to hit the send button (no use for preview) I send before I > read and check what the fuck I have been talking about for the last 3 > hours. > > See you again soon. (Up to 14 hours now-10 to go!) You say this session took three hours yet it only took half an hour to read and all the time I was reading it I thought it was more or less real time. Ofcourse I'm not taking into account that it takes longer to type than it takes to read, but six times longer? Even so there must have been tons of thoughts you had that could not be included because the stream of thoughts is certainly much faster than the speed of reading and much much faster than the speed of typing. You didn't tell us about any problems with typing errors or any distractions in the room, that would have been interesting... only joking. It seems to me this method of doing your sessions is causing you to put yout attention on the format too much, ie the written word and how we are receiving it. Okay this is where you are but is it the best method for you? Where might you be? If someone was doing UCP while doing handstands and sucking spagetti would they be getting the most out of their session? Would it not be better to do the session with out the keyboard and give us a synopsis of the session afterwards? By the way it looked like you forgot to do comparisons. Best of luck Pullgees ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1087-1023128509-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 18:21:44 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53ILh708508 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:21:43 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1087-1023128509-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 18:21:49 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 18:21:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 71431 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 18:21:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 18:21:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 18:21:47 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g53ILal28019; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:21:36 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CFABCAF.D8913A3C@directus.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:21:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 326 On Sun, 2 Jun 2002, judy wrote: > I confess Abba, that I was kind of shocked when I read your response Thanks you, Judy, for this report on the state of your nervous system. I can imagine that you might have been reading along, tracking just fine, until you came to something strange, alien, incomprehensible - or just plain contrary to your view of the world. I can imagine you were confused, upset - maybe angry, because some expectation or need of yours was not being met. Most likely your need for understanding or ethics was decidedly not met. Would you like to tell me if my guess is close - and correct me/confirm where necessary? > "I made a series of rapid calculations and decided that Freddie's > best interest and ours were the same: accurate information would not > lead to a better outcome." > > I could see where it might be best for you. Do you have a question? If so, I might be willing to answer it. Please try to make it as specific as possible. Also, it would be helpful to give me some background. How much experience you have with the subject matter, what language/intellectual framework/ethical framework you prefer. Otherwise I might feel impelled to write six pages, when a sentence or two might suffice. > Judy abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1088-1023129753-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 18:42:30 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.108]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53IgS728128 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:42:30 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1088-1023129753-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 18:42:34 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 18:42:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 28302 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 18:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 18:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 18:42:31 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.124] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A88F67F600DA; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 14:42:23 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFBB893.AE853190@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <3.0.6.32.20020602122254.0115eb68@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020602134003.011301e8@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020602232347.00f96460@net-prophet.net> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 14:42:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 327 Hi KP, Not wanting to cause any embarrassment, I wasn't sure whether to say more as I surely don't want to cause anyone any kind of discomfort at all. But then I did have some definite thoughts, so with trepidation, I continue. I am not far along enough to evaluate ucp, but I continue to be interested in it and I continue to do it. I like the fact that you don't charge a fee, but I also think that you've put in one hell of a lot of work and certainly deserve some voluntary compensation. Far as I am concerned that is only fair. I suspect that what you have done is to offer all of us a better way to enjoy life and to be a help to others. This really is priceless but there is no reason why those of us who benefit shouldn't compensate you in some way. What about if you include a mailing address. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1089-1023130191-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 18:49:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53Inj704466 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 18:49:45 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1089-1023130191-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 18:49:51 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 18:49:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 31088 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 18:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 18:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 18:49:49 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.175] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 18:49:48 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <009301c20690$ea85f4e0$d58e7ed4@oemcomputer> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:49:46 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: Did God Lie? Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 328 KP: >Adam and Eve did NOT DIE >when they ate the apple, as >god had solemnly promised! I know it's an old thread, but I just have a picked up a nice book by Clifford Pickover called "Omniscience and Paradox of God" (despite the heavy-sounding name, it's a very lively book) where he talks about this exact paradox, as well as many other religious conundrums. For example, the apple was supposed to give Adam and Eve the knowledge of good and evil. That means, naturally, that before eating it they didn't know what good and evil was. So how could they know that disobeying God and listening to the Serpent was not a good idea? Doesn't this make the punishment quite unfair? In other words God doesn't only seem to be a liar in the legend, he also appears to be an unjust tyrant. Oh well. So, yeah, check this book out. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1090-1023132563-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 19:29:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.108]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53JTIN16019 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:29:18 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1090-1023132563-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 19:29:23 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 19:29:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 97787 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 19:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 19:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 19:29:22 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.124] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A38951E0005A; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:29:13 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFBC38D.C7959B65@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:29:17 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] (unknown) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 329 Hi Esther, Though I may not comment each time, I do want you to know that I am influenced by your use of the process and your willingness to be so open. It certainly increases my motivation. My own experience with responding here at ucp has led to my being a bit hesitant at times. I've seen two other women leave the group and my impression was that they didn't feel this was a conducive environment for change. That was what both of them told me after they left the group. Once I know more from my own experience, I will write them and let them know how it is for me. My own experience is that I want to know for myself and if this works as it is reported to work, I will be a little guarded about what I say here in the group but I will continue with the process. I am with you that I would feel some upset if someone took what I have written with this particular group in mind, and posted it elsewhere. Anyway, my friend, please continue on and know that we are all interested and energized by your experience and enthusiasm. Perhaps I shouldn't say all, but that is my hunch. I confess to being very curious as to what will evolve around the topic of Y. Keep in mind that I don't know enough yet to know if that is an inappropriate comment. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1091-1023132945-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 19:35:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53JZfN22004 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:35:41 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1091-1023132945-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 19:35:46 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 19:35:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 97344 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 19:35:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 19:35:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 19:35:43 -0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g53JZWl17382; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:35:32 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:35:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 330 On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > > > Sounds like a heavy trip! > > > > > > As heavy as they get. Major case of miscalculating your dosage :) > > > > Tee-hee. Bye, Oleg! > > yes, I was comletely out of touch with everyday reality for 12 hours. > Came to my senses incarcerated in the local police dept. with a very > vague recollection of what brought me there. Luckily, they just let > me go :) Why do you say that about dosage? The setting is important too. Why were you not in a protected space? So is the mental set going in important. Nothing wrong with freaking around town to see th sights, but it's kind of like feeding caviar to your cat. And not for beginners. > > > By the way, I don't know what kind of stuff all these people (for > I > > > have heard the same story being told about the Beatles) were > getting > > > but it is perfectly possible to have a normal conversation of 4 > tabs > > > of fairly strong acid. > > > > How much is 4 tabs in micrograms? > > According to Psycholdelic Encyclopedia - it's usually from 0 to 200 > micrograms. *shrug* Yeah, right. No science here. In absence of science you have only the estimate of those who have taken calibrated amounts. My guess from outside (that is, not actually ingesting an equivalant amount) is between 200-400 micrograms is what you took. Margin of error: -0, +100% educated guess. Hmm. I'm not comfortable my math is tha same as yours - so: Not less than 200; maybe as much as 400, with probability diminishing betwween range 400 to 800. Can you state this with more mathematical elegance, maybe I can learn something too? ---------(snip speculation about dosage and coma) > > sealed vials. That was before that clown Leary came on the scene > with > > Ram Dass and made a big dog-and-pony show, and spoiled everything. > > Those were the days. Too bad I wasn't born then :) What do you imagine you are missing? > > We thought for a while that the only people it made crazy were the > > shrinks. The rest of the people it made sane. > > > > A frined of mine tried to kill another firned of mine when he flipped > out on acid. Almost succeeded too. So yeah, it's not only shrinks. I wonder if it was really acid. But anyway, we were a bunch of highly creative guys interested in mind-expansion. We expanded our circle outward, at first with success (which confimed our belief in benign results) but eventually to people who, in shorthand, could be called closet psychotics. But the thing is, with something new, you never know where the boundaries are, until one day, Ooops - you just crossed one! Now, what is the lesson in this? > > What I learned was not only that I could pass *casual* inspection, > but the > > most intense professional scrutiny and questioning; drop the > > merry-go-round and climb into the mind set of a respectable > householder, > > devise plausible scenario, strategize, draw on store of medical and > > practical information and decide if and when to lie. > > Yes, the potential of human psyche is amazing :) I am talking actuality here. Proven actuality. > > > We aren't using Sumerian here, are we? :) If I knew that > language, > > > perhaps I could fluently describe all my acid trips: "It was just > > > common b'rdul and then it turned into two magnificient hal- > krds'wa" > > > > Mash Balaganta Tabari! > > > > Say that a few times and see if it evokes anything. > > Hm.. nothing so far... what is it supposed to evoke? No supposed here. With me something like resonance of forgotten ancestors. . . > > > Zen masters do it much better :) > > > > Yes. Also they have sticks. If I had a cyber-stick I would thwack > you a > > couple times and rattle you bones and REALLY give you something to > THINK > > about. > > Heh. Don't worry about THAT. I get hit, punched , thrwon to the > ground and so on many times every week - at my aikido classes :) > Never makes me want to think - quite opposite, makes me want to do > stuff. You're a tough case, Oleg. > > > Or as a friend of mine once putit "How do you know you are not > > > enlightened?" > > > > What's your answer? > > "I don't know that." But you really do. Right? > Best, > Oleg Best, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1092-1023133091-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 19:38:12 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53JcAN24403 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:38:10 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1092-1023133091-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 19:38:11 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 19:38:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 9997 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 19:38:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 19:38:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 19:38:09 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.211]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA08132 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:37:57 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020603123343.0121dcb8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 12:33:43 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] ESTHER IV, was (unknown) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 331 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: "esjwilds" Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 12:57:04 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] (unknown) ============== ESTHER WRITES =============== Hello once again, It's time for session 4. Where am I now? Wondering how long I am going to be in the internet place today. I want to ake it clear that I am intending to type what I am thinking at exactly the moment it occurs to me. I intend to write down my exact thoughts. Future Could be in a place where I am writing what I think about my thoughts. In a place where I am not writing the original thought, but a thought about the original thought. Compare to now Uncensored thoughts are the ones that I am interested in. There is a difference between summarising the contents of my thoughts and in the future place. Wait.....My intention is to write my thoughts and not what I think ABOUT my thoughts. So my thought is that I am not happy with the title Future. That title does not feel like an adequate description of where I think that place is. Past What I am thinking is that yesterday I became aware while I was writing my post that I was not writing the actual thoughts. I am summarising my thoughts. The sentences do not represent the form of the thought itself. I will write the thoughts alone. Now I am aware of the original thought. Future I write down the original thought without modification. Now What am I doing? Am I abstracting? I want to focus on the details. My life. I don't want to deal with abstractions. I want to focus on something concrete. Future I take a concrete situation from my life and deal with it. Now I choose a situation to deal with. Past I want to respond to all the comments which I have been given by others. I want to say what I think about the fact that my posts have been duplicated on alt.technology.com when I was not aware that would occur and my original intention was to post on ucplist alone. I want to give my response after seeing the other posts that are on this list that are not related to mine. I am disappointed when I sign on today that there is only one reply to my third session. I am heartened when I read the response and think that if that was the only one then that was enough. Now I am satisfied with that response. That is a true response. It only takes one person to truly care and that feels enough to me. Maybe there will be more responses but as long as there is someone who is *not me* listening to me and actually HEARING what I have to say then I am being heard and understood. Any more than that one person and it is a duplication of that understnading but it does not feel to me as though it becomes any greater for the fact that it is duplicated. I think each individual will have a different response to my posts but it is the intention to hear what I am actually saying that means the most to me. How each person reacts to my posts does not concern me right now. What matters is that the intention of the reader is to be aware of what I am attempting to say. The reaction of the reader is his/her own and of course 100% valid because of that. Future Reader reacts negatively. If you hate my guts after reading that post then that is the best reaction for you. That is the right reaction for you. IN my experience Now I intend to remember to use this phrase (in my experience) as often as possible because it reminds me that things make the most sense to other people when I remember to relate to my own experience. When I can explain EXACTLY the process that I have gone through and the reason WHY I have come to the conclusion that I have come to then it seems that I am understood by others and they do not question my conclusions but see why I have come to that conclusion. Past I get a text message from my sister telling me that she is worried about me and she would be grateful if I would ring her when I get the chance so that she can put my mind at rest. What shall i do? I have two options ring her or not. Do I want to ring her? She wants me to ring her, why? Because she is worried about me. She wants to know if I am ok. Ok, so if I am able to set her mind at rest I would rather do that. I will go and phone her but remain aware that my intention in doing so is to be completely and 100% honest about what i am doing, where I am and what I am thinking. If I am true to my thoughts, my process, then I have nothing to fear. The only thing I have to fear is the chance that I might hide something from myself and therefore not be clear in the first place what is going on. If I know what is going on then it is perfectly possible for me to be clear with her and then it is up to her what she does with it. I am at the wartel and I get the connection. I say 'Hello, just thought I'd give you a ring and see if I can set your mind at rest.' I am responding to her questions. She is the one who is worried. She is the one who has questions that need resolving. I am not pre-empting what she will say to me. I am taking the time to make sure that I have really heard what she is saying to me and that I am responding to her thoughts, her fears and not my idea about what she is thinking. I am not worried about the fact that she is worried. She is the one who is worried and not me. I do not need to take on her fear. If there is anything I can do to set her mind at rest I will do it and my intention is to be aware that defensive reaction will get in the way of that process. I must be clear on exactly what she is saying and if I react defensively to what she is saying then that will become a barrier between her words and my understanding. I answer all her questions. I tell her where I am. I tell her what I have been doing. She is reassured. She tells me that now she understands what I have been doing. She tells me that she was worried I was going to a place outside of her understanding. She tells me that she had some fear that in that place she would no longer be able to communicate with me. She tells me that she thought if I was in that place I would have become someone different. She tells me she was afraid that she would no longer recognise me. She tells me that she was afraid of losing the me that she knows. She tells me that she thought I was in a place that was not normal. In a place where I no longer wanted to do normal things. In a place where I would not want to eat chocolate biscuits and watch television. And that if I was in that place.... She would miss me. I would not be interested in doing the things that she wanted to. She would miss communication with me. She would miss sharing time with me. Now I think she thought I was mad or going mad. I think my mother thought I was mad or going mad. I think they were not aware of the whole picture. When they thought I was mad they were seeing a partial representation of where I was and could not imagine how I could possibly get to that place without being crazy. All it took was for me to explain EXACTLY how I got to that place and then they had understanding, awareness of where I was. Suddenly it makes sense to them. There was a time when I thought I was crazy. I want to write fiction, or not now. I am thinking about a time which is not now. I want to write about that time. I recognise that that moment is not now. I know that moment is a moment in my past experience. I cannot write about that moment under the heading of now. Well, maybe I can because i am thinking about it now, but the idea of doing UCP seems to be the ability to bring awareness to the fact that what is being seen at any point can be what is currently coming from the external surroundings, or from an interior perspective. This interior perspective is in some way not now? Either a potential possible situation or a real past situation. I have either already had this experience or I can imagine having this experience. I am concerned that it seems as though doing UCP calls for the sequence of headings now, future, now, past, but to me it feels uncomfortable to write future when I know that what I want to look at is past. I don't want to seem as though I am antagonising the principles of this system. I find myself in this position. I want to be honest. I will write my thoughts down exactly as they occur. That seems to be the best way. The way of truth, being true to what I am experiencing. So I want to read back and remember what the scene is that I wanted to look at before. Now I remember, the time when I thought I was mad. Well, the point is I think simplicity is best. I think the use of four words is ADMIRABLE beyond question. I think UCP is a fantastically simple and direct way of obtaining direct experience of the fact that awareness can be on actuality or possibility. That is the way I see it, that is the effect that UCP has had on me. By doing this process I have seen that by forcing myself to break up my thoughts into the headings NOW, PAST, and FUTURE, that in all these cases there is awareness and that this awareness is movable, directable. I can choose to focus on what is infront of me externally, I can choose to focus on what may possibly be infront of me externally but is not currently infront of me (this seems to have 2 sub-categories- already experinced, PAST, and yet to be experienced, FUTURE) I am only writing about this because I felt that my attention was on a place that is not now, and that therefore I wanted to write about it. A place where I thought I was mad. I have read some of the discussion about the headings and the whole NOT NOW thing. My experience has been that the heading Future can lead me equally to where I don't want to be as well as where I do. I have not gone to a place where I don't want to be in my online recorded sessions but when I am going about my daily business I find my self saying 'where could i be?' and it comes out a place where I don't want to be. Remind myself, in MY EXPERIENCE. I have been abstracting again. I feel that abstraction is less clear than personalising. My experience up to now is that I find the words Now, Future and Past as complete, enough, the bare essentials. The bare essentials are what I want. I want simplicity. I want effectiveness. I want directness. I want the shortest possible route. I want the least possible time. I want the biggest possible effect. I want to do it by myself. So far my experience is that UCP involves using those four words in order so that my awareness is concentrated on seeing, on seeing me. I see me, I see my life, I see my thoughts, I see my experience, I don't see abstractions. So still I am left with the question in my head. What heading will I use? I will use the heading Past as that is what I feel most comfortable with, my attention is on a past scene and the other biggest most important part of the UCP definition- in my experience- is that WHEREVER the awareness is, that is the perfect place for the awareness to be. Yes, so perhaps the headings are a better way to understand - where is the awareness. In that case seems to me that there are only three places where the awareness can be anyway. It can be in the Present. Oh, new thought, two places and the second is a sub-category. The second category is Not the Present. The second category includes the Past and the Future. Now where do I want to go next....Thinking about looking at definitions of Present Past and Future. My mind loves abstractions and definitions. But there is another thought. My intention is to personalise. My intention is to concentrate on my experience. I do not desire to concentrate on abstractions that have no meaning, no bearing on my experience. I want to see ME, Esther, and my definitions, whilst they are mine, are not ME. Ok so I want to make it clear that I had a dilemma about which heading to use. I want you to understand what that dilemma was. I want you to know why I choose to use the heading past. I want to know what you think about that. There can be no agreement or disagreement. This is my choice. I am choosing to do that. This is happening now. You do not have the power to affect my choice. But my choice may have an effect on you. You might have a response to my choice, or you may not. It may not matter to you what the hell I write in this post. All ways I am doing what I am doing. The interesting thing is that there is relationship. There will be people who read this post. This post will hold some meaning for those who read it. Whatever that meaning is will be a reflection of what holds importance for that person. Oh dear oh dear oh dear. I am abstracting again. SORRY SORRY!!! What I mean is that I have discovered that I am in relationship. I have a reaction to all things that I come across in my day. I have a reaction to each thing that I read, I see, I hear, I taste, I smell. Future- (HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA) Now i am plain amused. I have had to jump back from the point with a star because guess what - I discovered that i had jumped to the future without even realising it! Perhaps if I went back and read what I have written under the category of Now i would discover that i had already jumped time frame without noticing it. Oh shit, now it's getting complicated because I have split the time frame. I think I will put this post back where it belongs under the description of the future. I just want to make it clear what happened. But how best to do that I wonder... I know i've just realised that by cutting and pasting and putting these words back in the order they occured timewise you can read that heading Future as a footnote heading for the paragraph above it. The point is that while I was writing that paragraph I had no awareness of the fact that it was a Future place because I was thinking about it now. Well, well. The point is that I am attempting to write a stream of consciousness. I am attempting to reproduce my thoughts exactly as they happen. I am attempting to do that whilst holding awareness of this process which is called UCP. That means I am attempting to see the difference between thoughts which are located in the present- what is actually happening NOW, and thoughts which are stimulated by the imagined future or the real past. Past I recognise that what I am thinking about is linked to an event which already happened. I jump back to the top of the paragraph and I write the heading past. Or, alternatively, I run out of things to say and so I ask myself the question does any situation which happened in the past come to mind. Now I think that is what happened. At any rate i know that sometimes I jump back in the text to put the heading and sometimes I put the heading first and then write the following text. I am writing the text. I want to represent my thoughts and my thinking process as accurately and as clearly as possible. I want to be able to communicate that process to others. For this reason I do everything on the posting screen. I do not use the online witness because I choose to record my thoughts just as they are,as they happen. I think this is the most useful way for me to enter into communication with others. I think this is the best way of being honest. Of being who and what I am. I wonder if all my dilemmas about headings are obscuring something. Well, anyway that is what I have been thinking about. Because this process of doing UCP is what I am attempting to discover. I am finding out what this process is for ME. Future I want to jump back and read what I have written above. Just as my hand is about to click on the mouse I realise that I have stopped recording my thoughts and I have jumped into an automatic reaction without being aware of my reason for doing so. I want to take away that heading of Future which I just put at the top of this paragraph. It seems misleading now. OH god, I'm getting really pissed off with all this thinking about BLOODY HEADINGS@!# Fuck the headings. Quite honestly that is how i feel right now. I'm sick to the back teeth of worrying about what bloody heading I should be using. Am I being clear. Am I not being clear. AAAAAAAArgh. I am trying something new. Before I have been writing my thoughts and adding the appropriate heading afterwards because that is what I thought UCP was about. I would write my thoughts and then jump back afterwards to show that I had ... OK, I am trying to make a accurate and thorough record of my thoughts exactly as they occur. that is the intention I am currently holding. But that is fucking crazy. I cannot possibly hope to accurately record every single thought as it occurs. I am a reasonable speed typist but my brain goes at lightening speed. I will be endlessly frustrated if that is my intention. I have experienced holding that intention for about the last 15 minutes and all it has done is lead me to frustration. That is what I thought I wanted. That is where I thought i was trying to get to. I tried getting there. It was frustrating. My awareness became focused on the fact that my awareness had moved and that movement had yet to be recorded on the screen. As I go to type that awareness on the screen it has jumped again. It seems not to be possible in my experience to accurately convey ALL the places that my awareness is travelling to and from by typing words on a screen. SO....I accept that my intention is no longer to accuratly record every single place that my awareness travels. I choose not to hold that intention. I try to find a new intention. Well, surely if I am no longer trying to record every single thought then I can accept the use of headings. I can accept the fact that by using headings I am no longer creating something that is an accurate representation of my thoughts because that is no longer what I am trying to do. By using headings I trust that I am not losing anything. I am not distorting the truth. I am creating a new representation. I have made it clear what I am doing and that is after all the FUNDAMENTAL intention. I thought that my use of headings was in some way sacrificing the creation of a clear picture. I was equating accuracy with clarity. It is my intention which needs to be clear. If my intention is clear then my actions will be effective. I no longer fear that by altering the text and jumping backwards to place a heading I will be mis- representing myself. I have told you what I am doing. I have explained why I am doing it. I understand myself why I choose to do it in this way. Now I feel like I have come to the end. I want to go back to the beginning and read what I have written today. But it is not an ending. This process continues in my mind night and day. Future While I read this entry I will be reacting. I will be thinking. Now Ha, my awareness just kicked in as I realised that I was scrolling up on this page. The future became the now without me being aware of it. Fuck, my brain is fast. My body is so tuned in to reactions that my awareness has trouble keeping up!!!!! You just have to laugh- I do (lots.) Past I want to check to see which was the next required heading in sequence after that huge long section. I am scrolling up to find the top of the next section and then I realise what I am doing. I realise I am focused on doing rather than on awareness of what I am doing. Now Im rather enjoying going back to the use of headings. Especially as they naturally seem to fall into the 'correct' order. Full Cirle. Fuck it's thundering. I have to post quickly or there may be a power surge. Often happens here in Java. I can't save it and it may get lost. Main point is, the time I spend here doing UCP, or finding out what UCP is to me, is time for meditation. Time for typing and holding intention to be aware of where my awareness is travelling to without actually carrying out any physical action beyond that of typing. It is different for that reason. I am attempting to focus my awareness at all times, but these sessions are special because for the amount of time that I am here and typing I choose not to carry out any other physical action other than typing. I am reducing my physical actions in order to bring my awareness onto my mental actions. This time is useful because it feeds into the moments when I leave the computer. It brings my attention more and more to be focused on my intention. My actions, my life are where it all comes together. It is not seperate it is all one, but there are different parts to the process. At some point I choose to log off. At some point I choose to stop recording the process for others to read, react and respond. I feel like there are many many more things I want to say but what are they really? THANK YOU once again for listening. THANK YOU once again for responding. I would like to look at my response to the fact that my posts have been duplicated on alt.clearing.technology but I want to end my session shortly and I think that would take some time. For the time being I ask if those who have posted my words there would consider not doing so for the future until such time as I have looked at my reaction and discovered why I am uncomfortable about that situation. It is your choice and I am not angry with you for having done so because you were not aware that I had specifically chosen this list. I assume that they were not posted there automatically but that you personally chose to post them there because there are other messages from this list which did not appear on that list. I would be interested to know why you chose to do that, and what your intention was. I may look at that reaction in my next session (always so many things to look at and then I have to actually lIVE my life and leave the internet place and this flashing computer screen!!!) Ok, time to hit the send button (no use for preview) I send before I read and check what the fuck I have been talking about for the last 3 hours. See you again soon. (Up to 14 hours now-10 to go!) ============= KP REPLIES ============= Esther: >Hello once again, Hello! >It's time for session 4. Another treat! >Where am I now? > >Wondering how long I am going to be in the internet place today. I >want to ake it clear that I am intending to type what I am thinking >at exactly the moment it occurs to me. I intend to write down my >exact thoughts. Marvelous! I didn't know before if you were typing as you looked or summarizing after. >Future > >Could be in a place where I am writing what I think about my >thoughts. In a place where I am not writing the original thought, >but a thought about the original thought. A KEEN distinction! >Compare to now > >Uncensored thoughts are the ones that I am interested in. There is a >difference between summarising the contents of my thoughts and in the >future place. Wait.....My intention is to write my thoughts and not >what I think ABOUT my thoughts. So my thought is that I am not happy >with the title Future. That title does not feel like an adequate >description of where I think that place is. I *LOVE* YOUR MIND! >Past >What I am thinking is that yesterday I became aware while I was >writing my post that I was not writing the actual thoughts. I am >summarising my thoughts. The sentences do not represent the form of >the thought itself. I will write the thoughts alone. You are cutting to the core of REPRESENT. You are examining the difference between the THING itself and the SYMBOL representing it. >Now >I am aware of the original thought. > >Future >I write down the original thought without modification. > >Now >What am I doing? Am I abstracting? I want to focus on the details. >My life. I don't want to deal with abstractions. I want to focus on >something concrete. Praise Bob! >Future >I take a concrete situation from my life and deal with it. > >Now >I choose a situation to deal with. > >Past >I want to respond to all the comments which I have been given by >others. I want to say what I think about the fact that my posts have >been duplicated on alt.technology.com when I was not aware that would >occur and my original intention was to post on ucplist alone. I've been posting your marvelous essays to alt.clearing.technology and alt.ucp because I find them to be some of the most stunningly clear and beautiful examples of UCP IN ACTION I have ever seen. I consider your words a marvelous contribution and WANT *MANY* people to read and be moved by them to their own UCP experience. I EXPECT them to get others ACTUALLY DOING UCP, because they are an extraordinary Witness to the possibility of N-Lightenment Now! The UCP-list is archived at yahoo groups, so your posts are searchable and findable by net search on google or other search engines. What you write IS part of the public record whether I repost or not. I simply put it where I thought there would very likely be many others who appreciate it! I think your posts would also be PERFECTLY appropriate on alt.meditation, alt.consciousness, alt-self-improve and others! However, my intention is not to embarrass you or expose you to communication you are not looking for, so I will not repost this session report there for now. I REQUEST your permission to post your amazing reports wherever I think they will be useful. >I want >to give my response after seeing the other posts that are on this >list that are not related to mine. I am disappointed when I sign on >today that there is only one reply to my third session. Perhaps they were so moved by your second session report they are all *DOING* UCP right now and haven't gotten to their email? >I am heartened when I read the response and think >that if that was the only one then that was enough. Way Cool! >Now I am satisfied with that response. That is a true response. >It only takes one person to truly care and that feels enough to me. Are you looking for a regular caregiver? One other person is enough to create a dialog with the rest of the universe! >Maybe there will be more responses but as long as there is someone who is >*not me* listening to me and actually HEARING what I have to say then >I am being heard and understood. Any more than that one person and >it is a duplication of that understnading but it does not feel to me >as though it becomes any greater for the fact that it is duplicated. Expanded Dialog is Cool! But Some Dialog is Vital! >I think each individual will have a different response to my posts >but it is the intention to hear what I am actually saying that means >the most to me. The intention to speak the exact truth attracts those with similar concerns! >How each person reacts to my posts does not concern >me right now. What matters is that the intention of the reader is to >be aware of what I am attempting to say. The reaction of the reader >is his/her own and of course 100% valid because of that. Way Cool! >Future >Reader reacts negatively. If you hate my guts after reading that >post then that is the best reaction for you. That is the right >reaction for you. IN my experience Globlessusall! >Now >I intend to remember to use this phrase (in my experience) as often >as possible because it reminds me that things make the most sense to >other people when I remember to relate to my own experience. When I >can explain EXACTLY the process that I have gone through and the >reason WHY I have come to the conclusion that I have come to then it >seems that I am understood by others and they do not question my >conclusions but see why I have come to that conclusion. YES! Concrete detailed personal experience, not abstract representational symbolic theory! >Past >I get a text message from my sister telling me that she is worried >about me and she would be grateful if I would ring her when I get the >chance so that she can put my mind at rest. What shall i do? I have >two options ring her or not. Do I want to ring her? She wants me to >ring her, why? Because she is worried about me. She wants to know >if I am ok. Ok, so if I am able to set her mind at rest I would >rather do that. I will go and phone her but remain aware that my >intention in doing so is to be completely and 100% honest about what >i am doing, where I am and what I am thinking. If I am true to my >thoughts, my process, then I have nothing to fear. The only thing I >have to fear is the chance that I might hide something from myself >and therefore not be clear in the first place what is going on. If I >know what is going on then it is perfectly possible for me to be >clear with her and then it is up to her what she does with it. I am >at the wartel and I get the connection. I say 'Hello, just thought >I'd give you a ring and see if I can set your mind at rest.' I am >responding to her questions. She is the one who is worried. She is >the one who has questions that need resolving. I am not pre-empting >what she will say to me. I am taking the time to make sure that I >have really heard what she is saying to me and that I am responding >to her thoughts, her fears and not my idea about what she is >thinking. I am not worried about the fact that she is worried. She >is the one who is worried and not me. I do not need to take on her >fear. If there is anything I can do to set her mind at rest I will >do it and my intention is to be aware that defensive reaction will >get in the way of that process. I must be clear on exactly what she >is saying and if I react defensively to what she is saying then that >will become a barrier between her words and my understanding. I >answer all her questions. I tell her where I am. I tell her what I >have been doing. She is reassured. She tells me that now she >understands what I have been doing. She tells me that she was >worried I was going to a place outside of her understanding. She >tells me that she had some fear that in that place she would no >longer be able to communicate with me. She tells me that she thought >if I was in that place I would have become someone different. She >tells me she was afraid that she would no longer recognise me. She >tells me that she was afraid of losing the me that she knows. She >tells me that she thought I was in a place that was not normal. In a >place where I no longer wanted to do normal things. In a place where >I would not want to eat chocolate biscuits and watch television. And >that if I was in that place.... She would miss me. I would not be >interested in doing the things that she wanted to. She would miss >communication with me. She would miss sharing time with me. She needs someone to reassure her watching TV is her proper role in life? >Now I think she thought I was mad or going mad. >I think my mother thought I was mad or going mad. Even you thought you might be mad! But you kept examining that thought. >I think they were not aware of the >whole picture. When they thought I was mad they were seeing a >partial representation of where I was and could not imagine how I >could possibly get to that place without being crazy. All it took >was for me to explain EXACTLY how I got to that place and then they >had understanding, awareness of where I was. Suddenly it makes sense >to them. Yes. Because you went beyond a PARTIAL REPRESENTATION to fill in more and more of the ACTUAL DETAIL until they GOT IT! You are very carefull examining the relationship between EXPERIENCE and REPRESENTATION, THING and SYMBOL, ACTUALITY and SUBSTITUTE, IN YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE! >There was a time when I thought I was crazy. I want to >write fiction, or not now. I am thinking about a time which is not >now. I want to write about that time. I recognise that that moment >is not now. I know that moment is a moment in my past experience. I >cannot write about that moment under the heading of now. Well, maybe >I can because i am thinking about it now, but the idea of doing UCP >seems to be the ability to bring awareness to the fact that what is >being seen at any point can be what is currently coming from the >external surroundings, or from an interior perspective. Yes. Your universe, or the physical universe, or the universes of others. >This interior perspective is in some way not now? Either a potential >possible situation or a real past situation. I have either already >had this experience or I can imagine having this experience. And yet it is also NOW because you are thinking about it now. >I am concerned that it seems as though doing UCP calls for the sequence of >headings now, future, now, past, but to me it feels uncomfortable to >write future when I know that what I want to look at is past. Cool! The 1,2,3,4 series of questions is just a training aide. You don't have to keep rigidly following that sequence. You HAVE the idea, just keep following your attention until you are not quite sure what to do next. Then grab another question. Who cares what category MIGHT BE best to LABEL it with? >I don't want to seem as though I am antagonising the principles of this >system. You are demonstrating it marvelously! >I find myself in this position. I want to be honest. I >will write my thoughts down exactly as they occur. Way Cool! A clearly expressed intention! >That seems to be >the best way. The way of truth, being true to what I am >experiencing. So I want to read back and remember what the scene is >that I wanted to look at before. Now I remember, the time when I >thought I was mad. Well, the point is I think simplicity is best. I >think the use of four words is ADMIRABLE beyond question. Past, Present, Future and Compare? I AGREE! >I think >UCP is a fantastically simple and direct way of obtaining direct >experience of the fact that awareness can be on actuality or >possibility. YES! >That is the way I see it, that is the effect that UCP >has had on me. Way Cool! >By doing this process I have seen that by forcing >myself to break up my thoughts into the headings NOW, PAST, and >FUTURE, that in all these cases there is awareness and that this >awareness is movable, directable. Way Cool! >I can choose to focus on what is >infront of me externally, I can choose to focus on what may possibly >be infront of me externally but is not currently infront of me (this >seems to have 2 sub-categories- already experinced, PAST, and yet to >be experienced, FUTURE) Yes. NOW versus NOT-NOW Future and Past are both NOT-NOW. But when you ARE contemplating past or future options, they are now for you! HOW they are now depends on whether you THINK of them AS-IF they are actual, or remain conscious they are possibilities now, rather than physical actualities. >I am only writing about this because I felt >that my attention was on a place that is not now, and that therefore >I wanted to write about it. A place where I thought I was mad. I >have read some of the discussion about the headings and the whole NOT >NOW thing. My experience has been that the heading Future can lead >me equally to where I don't want to be as well as where I do. I have >not gone to a place where I don't want to be in my online recorded >sessions but when I am going about my daily business I find my self >saying 'where could i be?' and it comes out a place where I don't >want to be. YES! A very important use of UCP to avoid winding up where you really don't want to be! >Remind myself, in MY EXPERIENCE. I have been abstracting again. Abstracting can be very useful when it procedes from a close examination of YOUR ACTUAL EXPERIENCE. Abstracting from computations based on someone else's symbolic representational abstractions based on unknown compulsive figure-figure think theory is a very common activity I do not recommend highly. >I feel that abstraction is less clear than personalising. YES! A least personalize first so we SEE where the abstractions are coming from and what they represent. >My experience up to now is that I find the words Now, >Future and Past as complete, enough, the bare essentials. Yes. I agree completely. You have eliminated all the nonsense about exactly how to phrase the UCP questions and gone directly to the BASIC MIND ACTIONS. >The bare essentials are what I want. >I want simplicity. I want effectiveness. I want >directness. I want the shortest possible route. I want the least >possible time. I want the biggest possible effect. YOU WANT! . . . YOU GOT! I *LOVE* YOUR MIND! >I want to do it by myself. YOU *ARE* DOING IT! >So far my experience is that UCP involves using those four words in >order so that my awareness is concentrated on seeing, on seeing me. Perfect! >I see me, I see my life, I see my thoughts, I see my >experience, I don't see abstractions. PERFECT! But that doesn't mean you should screen out abstractions if your attention is going to them. Just LOOK at them AS abstractions! >So still I am left with the question in my head. What heading will I use? Must you have a heading? Do you need a symbol to represent a topic or theme? >I will use the >heading Past as that is what I feel most comfortable with, my >attention is on a past scene and the other biggest most important >part of the UCP definition- in my experience- is that WHEREVER the >awareness is, that is the perfect place for the awareness to be. YES! >Yes, so perhaps the headings are a better way to understand - where >is the awareness. In that case seems to me that there are only three >places where the awareness can be anyway. It can be in the Present. >Oh, new thought, two places and the second is a sub-category. The >second category is Not the Present. The second category includes the >Past and the Future. YES. Abstractions which evolve from and remain tied to the ACTUAL EXPERIENCE they are based on CAN BE useful in communicating your experience to others. >Now where do I want to go next....Thinking about looking at >definitions of Present Past and Future. My mind loves abstractions >and definitions. Cool! >But there is another thought. My intention is to >personalise. My intention is to concentrate on my experience. I do >not desire to concentrate on abstractions that have no meaning, no >bearing on my experience. I want to see ME, Esther, and my >definitions, whilst they are mine, are not ME. Ok so I want to make >it clear that I had a dilemma about which heading to use. I want you >to understand what that dilemma was. I want you to know why I choose >to use the heading past. I want to know what you think about that. I *LOVE* YOUR MIND! >There can be no agreement or disagreement. This is my choice. I am >choosing to do that. This is happening now. You do not have the >power to affect my choice. But my choice may have an effect on you. It makes me HAPPY to see you *DOING* UCP! >You might have a response to my choice, or you may not. It may not >matter to you what the hell I write in this post. All ways I am >doing what I am doing. The interesting thing is that there is relationship. I'M in love! >There will be people who read this post. This post will hold some >meaning for those who read it. Whatever that meaning is will be a >reflection of what holds importance for that person. Yes! >Oh dear oh dear oh dear. I am abstracting again. SORRY SORRY!!! NOT a problem! I am not opposed to abstractions! I am opposed to IDENTIFYING the abstractions with the actual. >What I mean is that I have discovered that I am in relationship. Way Cool! >I have a reaction to all things that I come across in my day. Yes! >I have a reaction to each thing that I read, I see, I hear, I taste, I smell. YOU POST! >Future- (HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA) > > >Now i am plain amused. I have had to jump back from the point with a >star because guess what - I discovered that i had jumped to the >future without even realising it! Perfect! You are NATURALLY moving into FREE-FORM UCP. That is supposed to happen . . . and it is! >Perhaps if I went back and read >what I have written under the category of Now i would discover that i >had already jumped time frame without noticing it. Perfect! >Oh shit, now it's >getting complicated because I have split the time frame. Don't worry about the abstrations! Just deal with the actual as it happens! >I think I >will put this post back where it belongs under the description of the >future. I just want to make it clear what happened. But how best to >do that I wonder... I know i've just realised that by cutting and >pasting and putting these words back in the order they occured >timewise you can read that heading Future as a footnote heading for >the paragraph above it. The point is that while I was writing that >paragraph I had no awareness of the fact that it was a Future place >because I was thinking about it now. Well, well. THEN . . . it was . . . NOW! >The point is that I am attempting to write a stream of consciousness. Yes! And you are much more accessible than Henry James! >I am attempting to reproduce my thoughts exactly as they happen. And SEEING that the abstractions can NEVER perfectly convey the actuality of EXPERIENCE. >I am attempting to do that whilst holding awareness of >this process which is called UCP. Way Cool! >That means I am attempting to see >the difference between thoughts which are located in the present- >what is actually happening NOW, and thoughts which are stimulated by >the imagined future or the real past. WAY COOL! >Past >I recognise that what I am thinking about is linked to an event which >already happened. I jump back to the top of the paragraph and I >write the heading past. Or, alternatively, I run out of things to say >and so I ask myself the question does any situation which happened in >the past come to mind. > >Now >I think that is what happened. At any rate i know that sometimes I >jump back in the text to put the heading and sometimes I put the >heading first and then write the following text. I am writing the >text. I want to represent my thoughts and my thinking process as >accurately and as clearly as possible. Excellent! And sometimes one action seems better or more accurate than another. >I want to be able to communicate that process to others. Marvelously well! >For this reason I do everything on the posting screen. >I do not use the online witness because I >choose to record my thoughts just as they are,as they happen. Way Cool! >I think this is the most useful way for me to enter into communication >with others. I think this is the best way of being honest. Of being >who and what I am. Way Cool! It works for me! >I wonder if all my dilemmas about headings are obscuring something. Obscuring something . . . or BRINGING something TO your attention? >Well, anyway that is what I have been thinking about. >Because this process of doing UCP is what I am attempting to >discover. I am finding out what this process is for ME. Way Cool! >Future >I want to jump back and read what I have written above. Just as my >hand is about to click on the mouse I realise that I have stopped >recording my thoughts and I have jumped into an automatic reaction >without being aware of my reason for doing so. Excellent! >I want to take away >that heading of Future which I just put at the top of this >paragraph. It seems misleading now. OH god, I'm getting really >pissed off with all this thinking about BLOODY HEADINGS@!# Fuck the >headings. Quite honestly that is how i feel right now. I'm sick to >the back teeth of worrying about what bloody heading I should be >using. Am I being clear. Am I not being clear. AAAAAAAArgh. Perfectly clear! The heading will never EXACTLY represent the paragraph it attaches to, because it is only an abstract representation! You are *LOOKING* at the intention, practice, and results of using SYMBOLS and ABSTRACTIONS to REPRESENT! >I am trying something new. YES! >Before I have been writing my thoughts >and adding the appropriate heading afterwards because that is what I >thought UCP was about. I would write my thoughts and then jump back >afterwards to show that I had ... > >OK, I am trying to make a accurate and thorough record of my >thoughts exactly as they occur. that is the intention I am currently >holding. > >But that is fucking crazy. I cannot possibly hope to accurately >record every single thought as it occurs. I am a reasonable speed >typist but my brain goes at lightening speed. I will be endlessly >frustrated if that is my intention. I have experienced holding that >intention for about the last 15 minutes and all it has done is lead >me to frustration. WAY COOL! YOU MADE A TEST! YOU HAD EXPERIENCE! YOU REMAINED CONSCIOUS OF YOUR BASIC INTENTION! YOU ARE INTEGRATING THAT EXPERIENCE NOW! You have discovered that the symbol can NEVER fully represent the actual! >That is what I thought I wanted. That is where I thought i was >trying to get to. I tried getting there. It was frustrating. You LOOKED, you SAW, you LEARNED! Your *PERFECT IDEAL* turned out to be impossible in actuality, so now you are examining what is ACTUALLY POSSIBLE to you! >My awareness became focused on the fact that my awareness had moved >and that movement had yet to be recorded on the screen. As I go to >type that awareness on the screen it has jumped again. It seems not >to be possible in my experience to accurately convey ALL the places >that my awareness is travelling to and from by typing words on a >screen. I AGREE! But I LOVE what you DO write! >SO....I accept that my intention is no longer to accuratly record >every single place that my awareness travels. I choose not to hold >that intention. I try to find a new intention. Well, surely if I am >no longer trying to record every single thought then I can accept the >use of headings. I can accept the fact that by using headings I am >no longer creating something that is an accurate representation of my >thoughts because that is no longer what I am trying to do. By using >headings I trust that I am not losing anything. I am not distorting >the truth. I am creating a new representation. I have made it clear >what I am doing and that is after all the FUNDAMENTAL intention. And you HAVE conveyed a great deal of what *ESTHER IS!* >I thought that my use of headings was in some way sacrificing the >creation of a clear picture. I was equating accuracy with clarity. >It is my intention which needs to be clear. If my intention is clear >then my actions will be effective. I no longer fear that by altering >the text and jumping backwards to place a heading I will be mis- >representing myself. I have told you what I am doing. I have >explained why I am doing it. I understand myself why I choose to do >it in this way. Way Cool! >Now >I feel like I have come to the end. I want to go back to the >beginning and read what I have written today. But it is not an >ending. This process continues in my mind night and day. I *AM* IN LOVE! >Future > While I read this entry I will be reacting. I will be thinking. > >Now >Ha, my awareness just kicked in as I realised that I was scrolling up >on this page. The future became the now without me being aware of >it. Fuck, my brain is fast. My body is so tuned in to reactions >that my awareness has trouble keeping up!!!!! You just have to laugh- > I do (lots.) LAUGHING *WITH* YOU! >Past >I want to check to see which was the next required heading in >sequence after that huge long section. I doesn't make any difference what is on the computer screen. What IS important is what's on the screen . . . IN YOUR MIND! If your attention is on the past, THAT is the next question now. >I am scrolling up to find the >top of the next section and then I realise what I am doing. I >realise I am focused on doing rather than on awareness of what I am >doing. OK. Now you got both! >Now Im rather enjoying going back to the use of headings. >Especially as they naturally seem to fall into the 'correct' order. Naturally! >Full Cirle. Naturally! >Fuck it's thundering. I have to post quickly or there may be a power >surge. Often happens here in Java. I can't save it and it may get >lost. I'm GLAD it did not get lost! >Main point is, the time I spend here doing UCP, or >finding out what UCP is to me, is time for meditation. YES! >Time for typing and holding >intention to be aware of where my awareness is travelling to without >actually carrying out any physical action beyond that of typing. YES! >It is different for that reason. I am attempting to focus my awareness >at all times, but these sessions are special because for the amount >of time that I am here and typing I choose not to carry out any other >physical action other than typing. I am reducing my physical actions >in order to bring my awareness onto my mental actions. This time is >useful because it feeds into the moments when I leave the computer. >It brings my attention more and more to be focused on my intention. >My actions, my life are where it all comes together. It is not >seperate it is all one, but there are different parts to the process. YES! >At some point I choose to log off. At some point I choose to stop >recording the process for others to read, react and respond. PERFECT! >I feel like there are many many more things >I want to say but what are they really? > >THANK YOU once again for listening. THANK YOU! >THANK YOU once again for responding. MY PLEASURE! >I would like to look at my response to the fact that my posts have >been duplicated on alt.clearing.technology but I want to end my >session shortly and I think that would take some time. For the time >being I ask if those who have posted my words there would consider >not doing so for the future until such time as I have looked at my >reaction and discovered why I am uncomfortable about that situation. I spoke to that above. >It is your choice and I am not angry with you for having done so >because you were not aware that I had specifically chosen this list. I did not know you felt it was "private", which is only partially true. >I assume that they were not posted there automatically but that you >personally chose to post them there because there are other messages >from this list which did not appear on that list. Yes. I reposted them because I think they are MARVELOUS! >I would be >interested to know why you chose to do that, and what your intention >was. I may look at that reaction in my next session (always so many >things to look at and then I have to actually lIVE my life and leave >the internet place and this flashing computer screen!!!) I spoke to that above. >Ok, time to hit the send button (no use for preview) I send before I >read and check what the fuck I have been talking about for the last 3 >hours. You might look at the chart, especially the area around THINK and SYMBOLS. >See you again soon. (Up to 14 hours now-10 to go!) WAY COOL! THANKS FOR WRITING! WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1093-1023133206-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 19:40:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.91]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53Je5N25975 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:40:05 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1093-1023133206-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 19:40:09 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 19:40:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 65805 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 19:40:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 19:40:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 19:40:05 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.124] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A60C2DBE0076; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:39:56 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFBC610.AAC5FBED@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 15:40:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 332 Dear Abner, I am no match for you at all. Just a simple woman responding directly to what you wrote. I have no particular intellectual framework etc. etc. To let you know if your hunches are correct, I don't know, you could be. I was shocked because I couldn't imagine anyone not giving complete information when it comes to a medical crisis. I am assuming that time is of essence. Where I was coming from was thinking how upset I would be if someone put their own interest ahead of mine when it came to a serious medical condition. I don't think I would do as you did but I haven't been in that situation so cant say for sure. Sorry if my comments did not sit well with you. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1094-1023135420-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 20:16:57 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.81]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53KGuA07247 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:16:56 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1094-1023135420-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 20:17:01 -0000 X-Sender: bobbukovac@juno.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 20:16:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 91385 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 20:16:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 20:16:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO m11.jersey.juno.com) (64.136.22.74) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 20:16:58 -0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"keNGq3TbgO58Ej//YEvW3VfDG6NGj9+H/yMccWrz4Ii/HL4EKYD6UA=="> Received: (from bobbukovac@juno.com) by m11.jersey.juno.com (jqueuemail) id G4EGYRW9; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:16:03 EDT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20020603.161450.-4117179.0.bobbukovac@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-6 From: Bob Bukovac MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:14:48 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] One more quote Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 333 FWIW ... "It ain't so much what a man doesn't know that causes him so many problems, but what he "knows" that just ain't so." --Will Rogers B ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1095-1023136309-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 20:31:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53KViA22957 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:31:44 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1095-1023136309-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 20:31:49 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 20:31:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 36854 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 20:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 20:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 20:31:48 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.211]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA21591 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:31:45 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020603131111.0120aa58@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CFBB893.AE853190@directus.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20020602122254.0115eb68@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020602134003.011301e8@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020602232347.00f96460@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 13:11:11 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 334 Judy writes: >Hi KP, Hi! >Not wanting to cause any embarrassment, I wasn't sure whether to say >more as I surely don't want to cause anyone any kind of discomfort at >all. But then I did have some definite thoughts, so with trepidation, I >continue. Not a problem. My embarrassment is MY problem, not yours. Being broke annoys me because it keeps soaking up my attention, when I want to be teaching UCP. It's embarrassing that I am broke, and embarrassing that others who are also broke worry about me. >I am not far along enough to evaluate ucp, THEN JUST *DO MORE* UCP! >but I continue to be interested in it and I continue to do it. Wonderful! >I like the fact that you don't charge a fee, but I also think that >you've put in one hell of a lot of work and certainly deserve some >voluntary compensation. Far as I am concerned that is only fair. Wonderful! But it should come from those who have DONE enough UCP that they *KNOW* it is NECESSARY for SANITY, and are sharing some of the affluence that their raised awareness has brought them already. I don't want to twist the arms of people suffering medical evi$ceration. >I suspect that what you have done is to offer all of us >a better way to enjoy life and to be a help to others. I suspect you are right! Tell us when you *KNOW!* In the meantime, the UCPeons are here to help you! >This really is priceless but there is no reason why those >of us who benefit shouldn't compensate you in some way. When YOU KNOW . . . *YOU* have benefitted . . . >What about if you include a mailing address. > >Judy I already have $pyontology criminals trying to find and publish my address for their FAIR GAME Felonies, so I don't do that. But anyone can send a financial contribution to KP@net-prophet.net through paypal.com. Best Wishes for your rapid progress with UCP! How about some session reports from you? WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1096-1023136310-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 20:31:46 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53KVjA22968 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:31:45 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1096-1023136310-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 20:31:50 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 20:31:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 2299 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 20:31:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 20:31:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 20:31:50 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.211]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA21604 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:31:48 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020603132749.011fa8f0@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CFBC610.AAC5FBED@directus.net> References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 13:27:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 335 Judy: >Dear Abner, I am no match for you at all. Just a simple woman >responding directly to what you wrote. I have no particular >intellectual framework etc. etc. You have your viewpoint! >To let you know if your hunches are correct, I don't know, you could be. > >I was shocked because I couldn't imagine anyone not giving complete >information when it comes to a medical crisis. I am assuming that time >is of essence. I'm shocked that you THINK doctors would know more about LSD and its effects than the experts, and that you THINK they put the PATIENT'S interests before their own! Cover your own ass, follow procedure, and call the police would NOT have helped Freddy! >Where I was coming from was thinking how upset I would be if someone put >their own interest ahead of mine when it came to a serious medical >condition. Abner *VERY CLEARLY* told you that he had concluded that his and Freddies interest were the very same . . . in this situation. I think that Abner was correct, and he not only got Freddy medical care that may well have saved his life, but kept him OUT of prison too! >I don't think I would do as you did but I haven't been in >that situation so cant say for sure. You probably would NOT have done what Abner did in that situation. But then it is VERY unlikely that you would find yourself in that situation! Abner done good! >Sorry if my comments did not sit well with you. > >Judy Speaking for Abner, he's not upset, he's trying handle your misunderstanding. :-) KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1097-1023136809-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 20:40:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.91]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53Ke4A01262 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:40:04 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1097-1023136809-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 20:40:09 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 20:40:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 16823 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 20:40:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 20:40:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 20:40:08 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.211]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA23080 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:40:05 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020603133548.0120aa58@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CFBC38D.C7959B65@directus.net> References: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 13:35:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] (unknown) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 336 At 03:29 PM 6/3/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Esther, > >Though I may not comment each time, I do want you to know that I am >influenced by your use of the process and your willingness to be so open. Me too! >It certainly increases my motivation. My own experience with >responding here at ucp has led to my being a bit hesitant at times. OK. That's where you are now. >I've seen two other women leave the group and my impression was >that they didn't feel this was a conducive environment for change. I saw Tabi leave because she was NOT looking for change. When change was demanded . . . she ran! >That was what both of them told me after they left the group. OK! >Once I know more from my own experience, >I will write them and let them know how it is for me. OK! >My own experience is that I want to know for myself and if this works as >it is reported to work, I will be a little guarded about what I say here >in the group but I will continue with the process. Way Cool! The more you tell us about how UCP IS working for you, the more likely we are to be able to help you. >I am with you that I would feel some upset if someone took what I have >written with this particular group in mind, and posted it elsewhere. OK. Be aware that the UCP-list IS archived on yahoo.com and ANYONE can find your posts if they search properly. As a matter of habit, I have reposted UCP material that I thought would be USEFUL to others on usenet. I don't do that to annoy or upset people. >Anyway, my friend, please continue on and know that we are all >interested and energized by your experience and enthusiasm. >Perhaps I shouldn't say all, but that is my hunch. Some of us for SURE! >I confess to being very curious as to what will evolve around the topic >of Y. Keep in mind that I don't know enough yet to know if that is an >inappropriate comment. > >Judy ANY comment is appropriate, if that's what you want to say! KP ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1098-1023139242-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 21:20:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53LKax13300 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:20:36 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1098-1023139242-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 21:20:42 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 21:20:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 83117 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 21:20:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 21:20:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 21:20:40 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g53LKS516290; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:20:28 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CFBC610.AAC5FBED@directus.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:20:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 337 On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, judy wrote: > Dear Abner, I am no match for you at all. Just a simple woman > responding directly to what you wrote. I have no particular > intellectual framework etc. etc. OK. That's a match. Thanks. I've got my bearings now. > To let you know if your hunches are correct, I don't know, you could be. > > I was shocked because I couldn't imagine anyone not giving complete > information when it comes to a medical crisis. I am assuming that time > is of essence. Well, the medico had time to ask a question about an issue which I did not consider to be medically relevant. I take responsibility for that assessment. Besides myself, who had been playing with these things for fiteen years at that point, in our circle there was a biophysicist who was engaged in tracing the actual passage of the LSD molecule through the body (It's GONE in 20 minutes), and a psychiatrist. We concurred that "drug panic" or freakout, as well as other "psychiatric emergencies" were only made worse by the shoving tranquilizers and sedatives into the "patient"; that this was done because of fear induced in the physicians by "the insane." LSD was propagandized - even to the medical profession as "psycho-mimetic" that is, psychotic mimicing, or incuding insanity. Well, that is only half correct, it induces insanity in the beholder, because of fear of the unknown. According to the above mentioned persons there would be no synergistic effect or danger, that is, physiological danger, from giving other pharmaceuticals on top of LSD. It would be equally safe to give opiates for pain reduction or other drugs to quiet the patient. Not that the latter would be an ideal therapy. Ideal therapy would be to get into 2 way comm with the patient, and talk with him until his fear or panic passed. But a person in fear himself is not capable of that. I did not want to give the medico on the phone any information that might precipitate fear. That would only reduce his ability to deal with the situation. FEAR IS THE MIND KILLER ! > Where I was coming from was thinking how upset I would be if someone put > their own interest ahead of mine when it came to a serious medical > condition. Of course. If I had considered that the information would have *increased* the chance of medically appropriate treatment for Freddie, I would have given it, even at the risk of re-involvement of the police. (With the proviso that, should this happen and Freddies house be searched there was some chance that Freddie would go from the hospital to jail. Would this be worth trading a few hours of discomfort when the medicos MIGHT give him an "anti-psychotic" to stop his raving, instead of just waiting it out? If. If. If...) These things had to be weighed in a split second under the category "interest." >I don't think I would do as you did but I haven't been in > that situation so cant say for sure. Maybe you have more respect and confidence in the medical profession as a whole than I do. If a bridge falls down, or a balcony, or a roof span, every engineer in the world wants to know WHY? And they don't quit until they find out. When a guy goes to the doctor and then dies, there is usually not much inquiry; if there is, and mistakes are uncovered, they are covered right back up again; there are a multiplicity of factors involved in human health and functioning, so it is intrinsically difficult to isolate them; unlike buildings or bridges, people die anyway - often suddenly. I do not give responsibility lightly to doctors. > Sorry if my comments did not sit well with you. That's my problem, not yours. ;) > Judy abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1099-1023139657-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 21:27:32 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.68]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53LRVx19636 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:27:31 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1099-1023139657-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 21:27:37 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 21:27:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 48588 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 21:27:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 21:27:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.74) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 21:27:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.150] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 21:27:36 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020603132749.011fa8f0@net-prophet.net> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 21:27:35 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 338 --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > > I'm shocked that you THINK doctors would know more > about LSD and its effects than the experts, and that you > THINK they put the PATIENT'S interests before their own! > > Cover your own ass, follow procedure, and > call the police would NOT have helped Freddy! I just want to point out that the situation is not as bad now. I only have direct experience with their Canadian counterparts, but my american friends assure me that it is roughly the same way in the States. These days they wouldn't report to police unless there's an evidence of some *other* crime. And if there's such evidence they would investigate *it*, drugs will simply be a part "crime scene". At the many rave parties I have been to, there are *always* drugs, there are always doctors and there's often police, but police only cares about fights, noise complaints, fire code violations and such. Things are getting pretty liberal in our neck of woods. The worst really thing about telling paramedics about drugs involved is that they often do NOT know how what to do. They can actually make things worse if they get over-zealous. With many psychodelic drugs the correct way to deal with them is to do nothing, just treat the physical injuries. If the doctors start injecting tranquilizers and whatnot, they only give your body a significant additional stress. > > I think that Abner was correct, and he not only > got Freddy medical care that may well have > saved his life, but kept him OUT of prison too! Would they actually bust you for mere posession of a few doses of acid? Whoa. I am kind of glad I missed those times. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1100-1023139988-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 21:33:06 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.101]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53LX3x24708 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:33:04 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1100-1023139988-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n33.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 21:33:08 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 21:33:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 90490 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 21:33:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 21:33:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.66) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 21:33:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.176] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 21:33:07 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20020603.161450.-4117179.0.bobbukovac@juno.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 66.38.219.93 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 21:33:07 -0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] One more quote Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 339 --- In ucplist@y..., Bob Bukovac wrote: > FWIW ... > > "It ain't so much what a man doesn't know that causes him so many > problems, but what he "knows" that just ain't so." > > --Will Rogers > > B Hmmm.... I have culled the saying from a usenet post, so it might very well have been a hidden quote or mis-quote. Thanks for clarifying this! best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1101-1023140223-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 21:36:58 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53Lavx28596 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:36:57 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1101-1023140223-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 21:37:03 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 21:37:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 19633 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 21:37:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 21:37:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 21:37:01 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g53Lans09624; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:36:49 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:36:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 340 On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Net Prophet wrote: > > I think that Abner was correct, and he not only > > got Freddy medical care that may well have > > saved his life, but kept him OUT of prison too! > > Would they actually bust you for mere posession of a few doses of > acid? Whoa. I am kind of glad I missed those times. Maybe, maybe not. The legal situation was in flux, and not consistent. I can't recall what phase it was in at that exact moment. But many of us had other things. . . abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1102-1023141342-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 21:55:37 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53Ltax07092 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:55:36 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1102-1023141342-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 21:55:42 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 21:55:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 52127 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 21:55:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 21:55:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 21:55:39 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.247] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A5D03F1A00A0; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 17:55:28 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFBE5D5.9102A2DD@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <3.0.6.32.20020602122254.0115eb68@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020602134003.011301e8@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020602232347.00f96460@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020603131111.0120aa58@net-prophet.net> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 17:55:33 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: 55 AND STILL ALIVE! Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 341 Hi KP, I was struck by your saying "My embarrassment is MY problem, not your" I don't see it that way. I feel some responsibility. I do admire that you were willing to share your feelings. I had no idea you were being harassed and I am glad you pointed this out. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1103-1023143799-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 22:36:34 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.99]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53MaXB28652 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:36:33 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1103-1023143799-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n31.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 22:36:39 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 22:36:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 17272 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 22:36:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 22:36:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 22:36:35 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.63] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id AF688E7100F0; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:36:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFBEF6D.44646238@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <3.0.6.32.20020603133548.0120aa58@net-prophet.net> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:36:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] (unknown) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 342 Hi KP, We sure do have different perceptions about Tabi. You said "I saw Tabi leave because she was NOT looking for change. When change was demanded . . . she ran!" My perception was that she was open to change, but she did not like all the criticism that was leveled at her. Same thing happened with Aja. I've never made it any secret that I don't like the barbs that are traded back and forth. This is the reason that I don't describe what I am doing with ucp nor the process of it. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1104-1023144384-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jun 3 22:46:20 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.82]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g53MkJB03940 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 22:46:19 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1104-1023144384-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Jun 2002 22:46:25 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 3 Jun 2002 22:46:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 76478 invoked from network); 3 Jun 2002 22:46:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Jun 2002 22:46:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jun 2002 22:46:21 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.63] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id A1B2FC6D0092; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:46:10 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFBF1B6.D82A98D5@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <3.0.6.32.20020603133548.0120aa58@net-prophet.net> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 18:46:15 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] (unknown) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 343 Hi KP, With your permission I will pass on your comments about Tabi. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1105-1023148992-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 00:03:09 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54036f14163 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:03:06 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1105-1023148992-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 00:03:12 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 00:03:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 91419 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 00:03:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 00:03:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 00:03:10 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.211]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA06346 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:03:08 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020603165932.0121ad28@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CFBEF6D.44646238@directus.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20020603133548.0120aa58@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:59:32 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] (unknown) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 344 Judy: >Hi KP, > >We sure do have different perceptions about Tabi. Yup! Her one stunning contribution was that the PEONY is the medical flower of Apollo, the Healer of the Gods! Beyond that she was a computing psychotic, wasting time. In *MY* viewpoint. :-) >You said "I saw Tabi leave because she was NOT looking for change. > >When change was demanded . . . she ran!" Yes. Constantly spewing disconnected SYMBOLS as though folding the map WAS MOVING vast mountains. Apparently completely unable to actually DO UCP. If she knew what UCP is. >My perception was that she was open to change, Did she ever DO any UCP? UCP *IS* HOW YOU CHANGE! NOT by talking about UCP! On the UCP list, none of the ucpeons could get her to ACTUALLY DO UCP! Whatsup wit dat? >but she did not like all the criticism that was leveled at her. Of course not! She was not supposed to like it! She was supposed to *LOOK* at it, and COMPARE it to her own viewpoint, to SEE any connections to WHAT IS. But she ran off in a huff instead. She just bounced out of session. She'll come back when she wants to. I don't criticize to make people like me. I criticize when I consider it necessary. It seems others considered it necessary too. >Same thing happened with Aja. I don't remember what happened with her. >I've never made it any secret that I don't >like the barbs that are traded back and forth. No problem! Sometimes I like them. Sometimes I don't. Accuracy is key. To me. >This is the reason that I don't describe what >I am doing with ucp nor the process of it. > >Judy I never saw anyone here get barbs for *DOING* UCP or *REPORTING* on it. They DO get barbs when they lecture on what ucp is and how to improve it, without bothering to *READ* anything, OR ACTUALLY DO ANY UCP FIRST! They DO get barbs for PRETENDING they are doing UCP, while proving not! They DO get barbs for presenting their THEORIES about how to do something [they cannot do] to those who have done, *AS-IF* such theories were actual *FACT!* But I don't see you doing those things! They get *LAUGHTER!* Which is well deserved! You MAY join in, guilt free, by me! KP ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1106-1023148993-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 00:03:10 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.70]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54037f14219 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:03:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1106-1023148993-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 00:03:13 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 00:03:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 91479 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 00:03:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 00:03:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 00:03:12 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.211]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA06366 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:03:10 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020603165847.012187c8@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CFBF1B6.D82A98D5@directus.net> References: <3.0.6.32.20020603133548.0120aa58@net-prophet.net> From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 16:58:47 -0700 Subject: [UCP-List] UCP-LIST IS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 345 UCP-LIST IS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT WAS: Re: [UCP-List] (unknown) Judy: >Hi KP, > >With your permission I will pass on your comments about Tabi. > >Judy Dear Judy: Feel Free! [This expands on my comments to Esther IV also.] The UCP list is a series of public documents that can be found on yahoo.com and probably by search engines such as google.com. Everything I post to the UCP-List I want and expect to be public. That does NOT apply to personal email, which is something else. I WANT the discussion of UCP to be a PUBLIC event as much as possible. Pseudonyms are fine! TO ME, the UCP list is a SUBSTITUTE for the alt.ucp newsgroup which hasn't gotten good distribution yet, and is off of teranews for now because their servers melted down. They said they'll put it back up again but their system status website is a week behind so it might take them a while to get it together. The idea is to make information UNIVERSALLY ACCESSIBLE. My general pattern with the list has been: Some things apply only to the personalities on the list so I either don't reply or reply only here. Some things are important to UCP at large and if I think it's worth my time to comment I certainly think it's worth posting to alt.ucp, which is where I am trying to focus core ucp information now. Some things I think are also worth posting to alt.clearing.technology, so I post them there too. The danger there is you may get endless replies from psychOTic $pyontologists lecturing on UCP. I'd LIKE to post to many other newsgroups too! But I'm way behind on a LOT of things now! >From my viewpoint, I write to let as many people as possible know about UCP as rapidly as possible. Whatever is extraordinary I want to share as widely as possible! Esther's posts are hextraordinary! I post here to teach UCP so as many as possible can learn. You get the advice of me and the other UCPeons for free, and the lurkers benefit from it too! There is no way you can change without revealing who are. If you want *PRIVATE* Witnessing then you need to find or hire a private witness, not speak here in the PUBLIC UCP FORUM. I'm glad you are here. I'm not trying to run you off. But I don't want you to misunderstand what the list is or how I view it, or be surprised it's not a private discussion. Best Wishes, WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1107-1023151209-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 00:40:05 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.92]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g540e3o29577 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:40:03 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1107-1023151209-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 00:40:09 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 00:40:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 98448 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 00:40:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 00:40:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 00:40:06 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.135] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id AC5D567D002E; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 20:39:57 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFC0C63.B5633BA0@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: <3.0.6.32.20020603133548.0120aa58@net-prophet.net> <3.0.6.32.20020603165847.012187c8@net-prophet.net> From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 20:40:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP-LIST IS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 346 Hi KP, Confidentiality is very much ingrained inside of me. That was the case way before academic training. I appreciate your making it clear that anything I might write to the group here might be posted to other groups. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1108-1023158207-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 02:36:42 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.105]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g542af411927 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 02:36:41 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1108-1023158207-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 02:36:47 -0000 X-Sender: ondinegreen@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 02:36:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 76699 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 02:36:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 02:36:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (207.68.163.184) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 02:36:46 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:36:46 -0700 Received: from 203.79.65.152 by sea1fd.sea1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 02:36:46 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jun 2002 02:36:46.0304 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB9A1600:01C20B70] From: "Ondine Green" X-Originating-IP: [203.79.65.152] MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 02:36:46 +0000 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] (unknown) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 348 I *think* it was Judy who wrote: > >I've seen two other women leave the group and my impression was > >that they didn't feel this was a conducive environment for change. Well, here's one woman who does enjoy participating in this group - although I've been rather busy for the weekend and have just had to work through among a hundred new messages! As to whether it's an environment for change, well, surely the real change is supposed to be happening in what we do in UCP sessions, not in discussions on this group? If we can't change ourselves through the process, KP and everyone else here combined certainly won't do it. By the way: welcome, Esther. ondine _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1109-1023160730-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 03:18:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.75]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g543IiL00768 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 03:18:44 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1109-1023160730-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.200] by n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 03:18:51 -0000 X-Sender: olegd@strategyfirst.com X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 03:18:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 33350 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 03:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 03:18:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.77) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 03:18:50 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.167] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 03:18:46 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "punkfloyd.rm" X-Originating-IP: 65.94.205.96 X-Yahoo-Profile: punkfloyd.rm MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 03:18:46 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 349 --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > > > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > > > > > Sounds like a heavy trip! > > > > > > > > As heavy as they get. Major case of miscalculating your dosage :) > > > > > > Tee-hee. Bye, Oleg! > > > > yes, I was comletely out of touch with everyday reality for 12 hours. > > Came to my senses incarcerated in the local police dept. with a very > > vague recollection of what brought me there. Luckily, they just let > > me go :) > > Why do you say that about dosage? The setting is important too. Why were > you not in a protected space? So is the mental set going in important. The space was safe when we started, but the situation deteriorated unexpectedly. One of those Murphy Law things, I guess. > > Nothing wrong with freaking around town to see th sights, but it's kind > of like feeding caviar to your cat. And not for beginners. Heh, carelessness with drugs and alcohol is a part of my russian cultural heritage :) There's even a saying "what is healthy for a Russian, is deadly for a foreigner" > > According to Psycholdelic Encyclopedia - it's usually from 0 to 200 > > micrograms. *shrug* > > Yeah, right. > No science here. It really depends on the dealer. You guys were getting it in carefully measured amounts in nice glass vials. Youth of today has to get it on the street in blotters with an unknown amount of LSD and god knows what else in it. > In absence of science you have only the estimate of those who have taken > calibrated amounts. My guess from outside (that is, not actually > ingesting an equivalant amount) is between 200-400 micrograms is what > you took. Margin of error: -0, +100% educated guess. It was 16 tabs, (I think). Given the average amount of acid per tab, according to various online sources is 25-50, then you get 400 to 800. You are spot on. (That is, incidentally, why I took such an insane amount of it. The acid I was getting nefore was really weak and it indeed took 16 tabs of it to have a nice trip. That's what war on drugs does to quality control :( ) > Hmm. I'm not comfortable my math is tha same as yours - so: > > Not less than 200; maybe as much as 400, with probability diminishing > betwween range 400 to 800. > Can you state this with more mathematical elegance, maybe I can learn > something too? I think you are in the right ball park. To make better statistical estimates you need more than one measurement and I am not doing 16 tabs again! > > ---------(snip speculation about dosage and coma) > > > sealed vials. That was before that clown Leary came on the scene > > with > > > Ram Dass and made a big dog-and-pony show, and spoiled everything. > > > > Those were the days. Too bad I wasn't born then :) > > What do you imagine you are missing? I heard things were quite intense back then. People getting chemcialy pure drugs from Sandoz, not from bikers who don't was their hands. People actually believeing drugs can change the world in a good way. Perhaps it was somewhat like the Ecstasy boom in 1990's (which I did experience), except it was about psychodelics. That's about the best model I can go by. > > > > We thought for a while that the only people it made crazy were the > > > shrinks. The rest of the people it made sane. > > > > > > > > A frined of mine tried to kill another firned of mine when he flipped > > out on acid. Almost succeeded too. So yeah, it's not only shrinks. > > I wonder if it was really acid. Yes, I am sure. I did acid from the same sheet. The guy was just one of those "closet psychotics" you mention below. In a hindsight it seems pretty clear, but at that moment we didn't expect anything of that sort. > > But anyway, we were a bunch of highly creative guys interested in > mind-expansion. We expanded our circle outward, at first with success > (which confimed our belief in benign results) but eventually to people > who, in shorthand, could be called closet psychotics. Same thing happened to MDMA in 90's. First it was called "an antibiotic for the soul" and one of the best mind-opening substances. Then it eventually seeped down to the masses and it turned out eventualy that it can ruin lives too :( > > But the thing is, with something new, you never know where the > boundaries are, until one day, Ooops - you just crossed one! > Now, what is the lesson in this? I dunno. Just do the best you can do. > > > > What I learned was not only that I could pass *casual* inspection, > > but the > > > most intense professional scrutiny and questioning; drop the > > > merry-go-round and climb into the mind set of a respectable > > householder, > > > devise plausible scenario, strategize, draw on store of medical and > > > practical information and decide if and when to lie. > > > > Yes, the potential of human psyche is amazing :) > > I am talking actuality here. Proven actuality. I was making a compiment! It is amazing how well can one act when the motivation is sufficiently high. > > > > > > Yes. Also they have sticks. If I had a cyber-stick I would thwack > > you a > > > couple times and rattle you bones and REALLY give you something to > > THINK > > > about. > > > > Heh. Don't worry about THAT. I get hit, punched , thrwon to the > > ground and so on many times every week - at my aikido classes :) > > Never makes me want to think - quite opposite, makes me want to do > > stuff. > > You're a tough case, Oleg. I had an impression that being hit with a stick is supposed to make you *stop* thinking and sort of point out: "HERE!" > > > > > Or as a friend of mine once putit "How do you know you are not > > > > enlightened?" > > > > > > What's your answer? > > > > "I don't know that." > > But you really do. Right? Sometimes I do but when I look at it I don't. Best, Oleg ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1110-1023161668-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 03:34:23 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.104]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g543YML07035 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 03:34:22 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1110-1023161668-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 03:34:28 -0000 X-Sender: esjwilds@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 03:34:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 72474 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 03:34:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 03:34:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.85) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 03:34:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.135] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 03:34:26 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "esjwilds" X-Originating-IP: 202.159.57.219 X-Yahoo-Profile: esjwilds MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 03:34:25 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Response to responses Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 350 Hello again, Thank you for all your comments once again. This time I have three of you to respond to. First KP, well what do I want to say to you.... (sorry that I am choosing not to duplicate your comments here but that would mean creating a huge file size as they are linked in with mine. I have to get to a rehearsal asap- I'm already late- but I want to post this asap too so let me know if in the future you want my response to include yours at all costs. Hope you understand. I will hear and respect your response.) Mostly I want to tell you that I've completed my fifth session and it is dedicated to you, but I will have to leave it until later to write it up. Yes, it was done away from the computer, and I am suffering some frustration in having a time lag in making it available to you but it will be done as soon as I have completed the tasks that are necessary in my day today. As far as the posting issue goes thank you for your honest (as always I expect and want nothing less from you) response. The reason I chose this ucplist was because In the Past I had read so many posts on those other lists which were concerned with bitching and backstabbing, and basically did not seem to be written with any intention of self awareness. I was looking primarily for a place where I thought the main intention of the group was to focus on DOING and on EXPERIENCING through self-awareness. I saw the other lists as an example of places where the posters have no conscious awareness of their motivation in making that post when so much of it seems to be focused on OTHERS. I wanted to be in a place where people are focused on THEMSELVES, on their own experience. Where they are not afraid to be honest, to be expressing their underlying thoughts and not just skimming the stuff that whizzes by on the upper surface. In my experience bitching about others and putting others down happens when I am not conscious of the real reason why I am annoyed by that persons actions/ behaviour. ON those occasions when I have looked closely at what is going on with ME I have learnt something that is very valuable and of which I was previously unaware. Other people are important to me because they act as mirrors with which I can see various parts of myself. I wanted to be in a place that would understand my intention. I wanted to be in a place where there were at least some other people who would be conscious of holding the same intention. I needed to find a place where I thought I could be ME and be understood. Where I would truly be listened to, where my words were important because someone else would attempt to hear what I was ACTUALLY saying and respond to that. I thought this particular list represented that place for me. I was reassured by the response to my very first post that I had indeed been heard. That my actual intention had been recieved and mirrored back to me. I felt that at last I was recieving confirmation from an outside source -YES, I want to see YOU, the real YOU and nothing but the real YOU. Whatever that is, is what I want to see and nothing less will do. If someone else was willing to see me like that then I was willing to be completely honest and not hide any more. If that is what you want then maybe it is ok for me to want that too. You allowed me the chance to be me. You said it was ok, not just ok but that is actually what you wanted. That happened because I felt comfortable on this list. I trusted that on this list the emphasis was on looking beyond the frothy surface of reaction and counter-reaction and on getting to the truth of each persons experience. I did not think that any alt.clearing list was a place where these kind of thoughts were on the mind of any of the posters. I have not personally seen any evidence to the contrary. That is why I made my initial decision. I was dismayed to see my posts appear on those lists because I had disregarded all the people who had posted there. I had put them in this category of 'losers', people without self awareness. I knew that you had posted on that list but you were exempted from the category of loser because you were the originator of UCP and that was what I was interested in. I had read some post that you had written that appeared to be full of comments that were focused on another person and bitching about him/her. Sorry I don't remember the details but that is how it seemed to me at the time. Comments on another person that did not appear to be consistent with my idea of a person who was focused on being constructive and aiming for conscious self awareness. I am the first to admit that I have no idea what prompted you to make that posting or anything about the person you were writing about let alone yourself! The point is that this is the effect I experienced- that is what prompted my response. I was disappointed to see comments like that but I was aware that I had not seen anything like that on this list when I took a quick sample of the contents. So my thought was 'so what if he does bitch, it seems like it is done on the 'we all love to bitch about others and not look at ourselves or our experience' lists, and not on the ucplist. Up to you of course what the hell you want to do, as you will do what the hell you want to do and quite rightly too. The point was that for the time being I wanted to feel in some measure safe. I felt cared for when I got your reactions. When I saw the post go onto what had become the 'bitching unconstructive lists' in my mind I was dismayed because I thought HELP, this is ME, pure ME, untempered ME going out here and they could just S A V A G E me. They don't care about me. They don't care if I am trying to be true to who/what I am. They will make fun of me. They will laugh at me. They will slaughter and murder me. They won't understand what I am attempting to do. They will hurt me. They will take me apart. They will invalidate me. They will tell me I don't know what the fuck I am talking about. They will tell me that I am a loser. They will tell me that I am a pretentious wanker who doesn't know my arse from my head. They will tell me that I am kidding myself. And then what? Once they have done that I will be taken apart. I will be convinced that I am a pretentious wanker. I will be convinced that it was a stupid idea in the first place to try and be completely and 100% honest and to try and share that with others. I will see that to attempt real, honest communication is a crazy ideal that cannot be attained. I will be beaten and sore. I will have lost my hope. Yes. I was afraid. Afraid of what the imagined THEY could do to me. Actually I was rather relieved to see that the imagined THEY hadn't even got around to writing any response to my post- thank the stars. But I was still afraid. I still thought they had the power to take something away from me. I still thought I had to defend myself from something. So I asked for time. So now I got time, what of it? Well, the 5th session changed everything. Doesn't matter where the posts go. Put them where the hell you want including this one. All they are is the truth anyway, my truth, ME expressing honestly what is going on with me. No-one can take that away from me. That is what I realise after my 5th session. Can't wait to get it up here so you can read it anyway. Oh and one final comment for KP. You are my best mirror. You accurately reflect back to me what I put out. You are clear. YOU are the closest thing to a true reflection as I have EVER seen to this date. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU I only hope that I can be the clearest most accurate reflection for you. With love, Esther. And then to Judy. JUDY WRITES: Hi Esther, Though I may not comment each time, I do want you to know that I am influenced by your use of the process and your willingness to be so open. It certainly increases my motivation. My own experience with responding here at ucp has led to my being a bit hesitant at times. I've seen two other women leave the group and my impression was that they didn't feel this was a conducive environment for change. That was what both of them told me after they left the group. Once I know more from my own experience, I will write them and let them know how it is for me. My own experience is that I want to know for myself and if this works as it is reported to work, I will be a little guarded about what I say here in the group but I will continue with the process. I am with you that I would feel some upset if someone took what I have written with this particular group in mind, and posted it elsewhere. Anyway, my friend, please continue on and know that we are all interested and energized by your experience and enthusiasm. Perhaps I shouldn't say all, but that is my hunch. ESTHER WRITES: Thank you for your first and second responses. THank you for your invitation which is recieved and considered and at this time I think I have just what I need without having to join any more groups. Glad to hear that you are motivated to do UCP by reading my posts. I trust that you will get out of the process whatever is most useful to you. For ME the most fundamental part of this process was the knowledge that I was doing this in semi-public. I was not shouting and blowing a trumpet saying 'wow, look at me and what I am doing' but on the other hand it was of vital importance to me to know that it was going OUT THERE and that I was taking a real risk. I had to really make that leap of faith and trust that all that was required was to be me. I had to trust that no defenses were necessary. My experience until this point had shown me that whenever I let down the ingrained response -which told me that if something was important to me (an idea, a belief, a way of looking at things) then I had to hide it, to defend it, to protect it, or I was in danger of losing it- it actually made it through to the other person what I was trying to convey and they saw what I saw. Whether or not they agreed with what I saw was not the point. The point was they saw it exactly as I saw it and therefore at that moment it was reproduced exactly as I saw it. That was enough for me to know that it was true. What they made of it after they saw it was up to them. The thing was that I saw something. I communicated that thing to her. She saw it, so I had succeeded in proving to myself that I had successfully conveyed what I saw. After I did that she might disbelieve that I saw what she is seeing but her reaction tells me the truth. After all I KNOW what I saw because I SAW IT! If I see the same thing reflected back from her to me then I know I have communicated. I recieve confirmation that it is real. Communication is real. She doesn't KNOW what I saw because she is the reflection. But she can always choose to tell me something that is true for her. She can express the truth of her experience and if I accurately reflect that back to her then she will KNOW that she has communicated with me. THAT is why I made my sessions online and public. It was a very very fundamental part of the process for me. Communication. Trust. And then to Pullgees PULLGEES writes You say this session took three hours yet it only took half an hour to read and all the time I was reading it I thought it was more or less real time. Ofcourse I'm not taking into account that it takes longer to type than it takes to read, but six times longer? Even so there must have been tons of thoughts you had that could not be included because the stream of thoughts is certainly much faster than the speed of reading and much much faster than the speed of typing. You didn't tell us about any problems with typing errors or any distractions in the room, that would have been interesting... only joking. It seems to me this method of doing your sessions is causing you to put yout attention on the format too much, ie the written word and how we are receiving it. Okay this is where you are but is it the best method for you? Where might you be? If someone was doing UCP while doing handstands and sucking spagetti would they be getting the most out of their session? Would it not be better to do the session with out the keyboard and give us a synopsis of the session afterwards? By the way it looked like you forgot to do comparisons. Best of luck Pullgees ESTHER WRITES: Thank you for your comments, I especially like the image of the UPeon standing on head eating spaghetti! I trust that you have read the comments above and the fact was that my focus was on being as REAL as possible. I wanted to know for sure that I wasn't trying to hide. That I wanted to be ME without censorship. I wanted to know that I wouldn't cop out at the last minute and fail to shout to someone else the truth about what was going on with me. My best imagined way of doing that was to see myself sitting at the computer, typing my thoughts exactly as they occured and hitting the send button before I had a chance to re-read. That way I thought I could be sure I wasn't putting in any subtle defenses that would dilute the 100% Esther effect. I was afraid that if I did it away from the computer I would lose my resolve. I thought it was neccessary for me to believe that everything was at stake. That it was all or nothing. This is what I think I meant about having a real witness in my first post. I think that is what I was considering. When I truly believe there is another person out there seeing ME, as I am THEN there is a risk. If I keep the thoughts to myself I am still afraid of what will happen if I take off all the restraining orders and I start to be me. What I wanted as much as anything else was to give myself the opportunity to take that risk. To say, well actually guys (& gals) this is REALLY ME, Esther 100% and that is of course very scary. What if you reject me etc. etc. re-read all those thoughts above about the posting of my sessions on the alt. lists. That was the whole point for me. So I thought typing on the screen and then sending straight away was the best fail-safe way I could think of to stop me from censoring myself. While i take what you say about the focus on the format the point is that THAT WAS where my AWARENESS was, because THAT is what I was involved in doing, and THAT is in my experience what UCP is all about. My experience is that there is no right or wrong place for the awareness to be. So my awareness was on the format, so what? That was the perfect place for it to be. Okay, so I re-read your post and you acknowledge that. Thanks! And then you say is it the best method for me. Well, the method I choose at the moment I choose it is the best method for that moment. That is the best answer that I can give you for the time being. And to answer your question in another way, my fifth session was unintentionally done away from the computer. It happened by accident so to speak (OH but then surely nothing is a complete accident??!#*) And yes it had a different flavour which you will get the chance to savour once I write it up. Thank you for taking the time to share your response with me so that I could respond to YOU! Oh, and one more thing. I found myself slightly rattled by your comment about the comparisons. Perhaps you were joking I find it difficult to tell from your tone but my first thought was 'didn't he get the point atall!! All that talking about how I was focusing too much on the structure and then he tells me that I was not focusing on the structure enough because I missed out one of the stages. Get your line of argument straight man.' THat was what I thought. Ha ha, yes so you made your point oh King or is that Queen of jokes (I'm laughing here incase you can't quite get the tone;-). You managed to point out to me that I was still hung up on style even after all that. Even after everything that happened in session 5. Thing is actually I don't care about comparisons. I care about being ME. Thank you for reminding me of that. I got angry. I shared it with you. I looked at it. I laughed. I learnt something. Incidentally, just one more thing. After re-reading your post again I find that I am on the defensive because I feel as though you are telling me what I should be doing. Future I imagine a situation in which my initial reaction may have been less defensive and I might have been more open to hearing what you were actually trying to say. I imagine reading words such as 'Typing away from the computer really works for me- you could try that.' or 'I would be interested to see what you wrote and what you focused on if you did the session away from the computer and then typed it up afterwards.' or I imagine that I would still understand what you were saying if you did the session and wrote a short series of notes afterwards summarising.' or 'I get bored of reading reports that go on for a while, any chance of keeping it shorter.' Comparison (see I remembered thanks to you!) In the future place I think I see where the thoughts were coming from and I recognise that they are your thoughts. In the other place I initially saw them as an attack on ME. OK, so it doesn't matter, I get to see them as your thoughts anyway. You see it doesn't matter what you write. I will make of it what I will. What matters to me is what I do with what you write. Only listen to me if you are interested in what I have to say. Of course if you aren't interested you won't listen anyway. There is a natural filter at work there called interest. All my thoughts come from some place linked to my experience and I try to make that as clear as possible where they have come from. My intention in doing so is to make the reader aware that all of this is ME, all of this is about me, if I am writing about you it is ME writing about you so I don't want you to think that what I am saying is a direct attempt to hit you. Its just my experience talking here, please don't take it personally but please accept that there is a good chance that what I say will be mirroring SOMETHING at you. That HAS been my experience. The point is that I want to see YOU, all of YOU. The real YOU. I want to see where the thoughts have come from, the origin. The flame. Not just the smoke. Make of that what you will. Esther. CHeers! I'll be back to post my report on session 5 this afternoon. Watch this space, I will be..... ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1111-1023165253-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 04:34:17 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g544YFl20889 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 04:34:15 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1111-1023165253-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 04:34:17 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 04:34:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 60103 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 04:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 04:34:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 04:34:12 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g544Y0Y18156; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 04:34:00 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 04:34:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Re: UCP Variation Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 351 On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, punkfloyd.rm wrote: > > > > > --- In ucplist@y..., Abba Noor wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes. Also they have sticks. If I had a cyber-stick I would > thwack > > > you a > > > > couple times and rattle you bones and REALLY give you something > to > > > THINK > > > > about. > > > > > > Heh. Don't worry about THAT. I get hit, punched , thrwon to the > > > ground and so on many times every week - at my aikido classes :) > > > Never makes me want to think - quite opposite, makes me want to do > > > stuff. > > > > You're a tough case, Oleg. > > I had an impression that being hit with a stick is supposed to make > you *stop* thinking and sort of point out: "HERE!" There's a difference between, "No Buddha!" and "No Buddha" THWACK! Zen masters discover not only carrots but sticks too. More effective. Apply congnitive dissonance. Ah-so! "Show me your face before you were born!" "No, no mind tricks from you!" THWACK! Invent new dimension of punctuation! We should all have such kind grandmothers. > > > > > Or as a friend of mine once putit "How do you know you are not > > > > > enlightened?" > > > > > > > > What's your answer? > > > > > > "I don't know that." > > > > But you really do. Right? > > Sometimes I do but when I look at it I don't. Oh...that one! It took me forever to move forward from there. The smarter you are, the more difficult to advance. > Best, > Oleg Cheers, ab abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1112-1023171247-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 06:14:03 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g546E2109115 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:14:02 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1112-1023171247-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 06:14:07 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 06:14:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 42523 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 06:14:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 06:14:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 06:14:06 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g546DsS24208; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:13:54 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CFC0C63.B5633BA0@directus.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:13:54 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] UCP-LIST IS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 352 On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, judy wrote: > Hi KP, > > Confidentiality is very much ingrained inside of me. That was the case > way before academic training. I like to distinguish between confidentiality and privacy. Confidentialality tends to be corrupting. It is used to withold information to gain some real or imagined advantage over one's fellow beings. In other words to gain power. True information can only grow, multiply, by being shared, so other minds can benefit and add to that. The reason science has been so productive is that discoveries are shared, not locked away in vaults. So organizations which amass large amounts of confidential information are supressive. For instance governments amass files on citizens to gain power over them, and suppress dissent. They stamp historical documents with seal of confidential to hide their mistakes and crimes from public scrutiny. From a founding ideal of "freedom" the american government seems bent on creating a society of slaves. This is true also of one at least, maybe two prominent churches. Privacy, on the other hand, promotes and protects freedom. Although it too can be dangerous, the alternative is much more dangerous. For if anyone knows your unalterable "identity" and can track your every word and move and dollar you spend, what are you but a slave? Privacy may be necessary to breach the wall of confidentiality. For instance "deep throat" and the Ellsberg papers brought to light the crimes of those in high places. Anonymous informants within corporations are enabled to spill secrets of corporate misdeeds because of a cloak of anonymity - fortunately still possible to attain. So I see these as very different from each other - and leading in different directions. > I appreciate your making it clear that anything I might write to the > group here might be posted to other groups. Me too. It is good to be clear on this issue. We could implement a private list, majordomo or mailman, and that would protect identities. But also create confidentiality as byproduct. This might have to be weighed... abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1113-1023172021-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 06:26:56 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.106]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g546Qt108208 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 06:26:55 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1113-1023172021-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 06:27:02 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 06:27:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 41164 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 06:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 06:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 06:27:00 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.205]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA03012 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 01:26:50 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020603232316.0130b4e0@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 23:23:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Response to responses: ESTHER IV+ Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 353 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com From: "esjwilds" Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 03:34:25 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Response to responses [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology ================= ESTHER IV+ ============= Hello again, Thank you for all your comments once again. This time I have three of you to respond to. First KP, well what do I want to say to you.... (sorry that I am choosing not to duplicate your comments here but that would mean creating a huge file size as they are linked in with mine. I have to get to a rehearsal asap- I'm already late- but I want to post this asap too so let me know if in the future you want my response to include yours at all costs. Hope you understand. I will hear and respect your response.) Mostly I want to tell you that I've completed my fifth session and it is dedicated to you, but I will have to leave it until later to write it up. Yes, it was done away from the computer, and I am suffering some frustration in having a time lag in making it available to you but it will be done as soon as I have completed the tasks that are necessary in my day today. As far as the posting issue goes thank you for your honest (as always I expect and want nothing less from you) response. The reason I chose this ucplist was because In the Past I had read so many posts on those other lists which were concerned with bitching and backstabbing, and basically did not seem to be written with any intention of self awareness. I was looking primarily for a place where I thought the main intention of the group was to focus on DOING and on EXPERIENCING through self-awareness. I saw the other lists as an example of places where the posters have no conscious awareness of their motivation in making that post when so much of it seems to be focused on OTHERS. I wanted to be in a place where people are focused on THEMSELVES, on their own experience. Where they are not afraid to be honest, to be expressing their underlying thoughts and not just skimming the stuff that whizzes by on the upper surface. In my experience bitching about others and putting others down happens when I am not conscious of the real reason why I am annoyed by that persons actions/ behaviour. ON those occasions when I have looked closely at what is going on with ME I have learnt something that is very valuable and of which I was previously unaware. Other people are important to me because they act as mirrors with which I can see various parts of myself. I wanted to be in a place that would understand my intention. I wanted to be in a place where there were at least some other people who would be conscious of holding the same intention. I needed to find a place where I thought I could be ME and be understood. Where I would truly be listened to, where my words were important because someone else would attempt to hear what I was ACTUALLY saying and respond to that. I thought this particular list represented that place for me. I was reassured by the response to my very first post that I had indeed been heard. That my actual intention had been recieved and mirrored back to me. I felt that at last I was recieving confirmation from an outside source -YES, I want to see YOU, the real YOU and nothing but the real YOU. Whatever that is, is what I want to see and nothing less will do. If someone else was willing to see me like that then I was willing to be completely honest and not hide any more. If that is what you want then maybe it is ok for me to want that too. You allowed me the chance to be me. You said it was ok, not just ok but that is actually what you wanted. That happened because I felt comfortable on this list. I trusted that on this list the emphasis was on looking beyond the frothy surface of reaction and counter-reaction and on getting to the truth of each persons experience. I did not think that any alt.clearing list was a place where these kind of thoughts were on the mind of any of the posters. I have not personally seen any evidence to the contrary. That is why I made my initial decision. I was dismayed to see my posts appear on those lists because I had disregarded all the people who had posted there. I had put them in this category of 'losers', people without self awareness. I knew that you had posted on that list but you were exempted from the category of loser because you were the originator of UCP and that was what I was interested in. I had read some post that you had written that appeared to be full of comments that were focused on another person and bitching about him/her. Sorry I don't remember the details but that is how it seemed to me at the time. Comments on another person that did not appear to be consistent with my idea of a person who was focused on being constructive and aiming for conscious self awareness. I am the first to admit that I have no idea what prompted you to make that posting or anything about the person you were writing about let alone yourself! The point is that this is the effect I experienced- that is what prompted my response. I was disappointed to see comments like that but I was aware that I had not seen anything like that on this list when I took a quick sample of the contents. So my thought was 'so what if he does bitch, it seems like it is done on the 'we all love to bitch about others and not look at ourselves or our experience' lists, and not on the ucplist. Up to you of course what the hell you want to do, as you will do what the hell you want to do and quite rightly too. The point was that for the time being I wanted to feel in some measure safe. I felt cared for when I got your reactions. When I saw the post go onto what had become the 'bitching unconstructive lists' in my mind I was dismayed because I thought HELP, this is ME, pure ME, untempered ME going out here and they could just S A V A G E me. They don't care about me. They don't care if I am trying to be true to who/what I am. They will make fun of me. They will laugh at me. They will slaughter and murder me. They won't understand what I am attempting to do. They will hurt me. They will take me apart. They will invalidate me. They will tell me I don't know what the fuck I am talking about. They will tell me that I am a loser. They will tell me that I am a pretentious wanker who doesn't know my arse from my head. They will tell me that I am kidding myself. And then what? Once they have done that I will be taken apart. I will be convinced that I am a pretentious wanker. I will be convinced that it was a stupid idea in the first place to try and be completely and 100% honest and to try and share that with others. I will see that to attempt real, honest communication is a crazy ideal that cannot be attained. I will be beaten and sore. I will have lost my hope. Yes. I was afraid. Afraid of what the imagined THEY could do to me. Actually I was rather relieved to see that the imagined THEY hadn't even got around to writing any response to my post- thank the stars. But I was still afraid. I still thought they had the power to take something away from me. I still thought I had to defend myself from something. So I asked for time. So now I got time, what of it? Well, the 5th session changed everything. Doesn't matter where the posts go. Put them where the hell you want including this one. All they are is the truth anyway, my truth, ME expressing honestly what is going on with me. No-one can take that away from me. That is what I realise after my 5th session. Can't wait to get it up here so you can read it anyway. Oh and one final comment for KP. You are my best mirror. You accurately reflect back to me what I put out. You are clear. YOU are the closest thing to a true reflection as I have EVER seen to this date. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU I only hope that I can be the clearest most accurate reflection for you. With love, Esther. And then to Judy. JUDY WRITES: Hi Esther, Though I may not comment each time, I do want you to know that I am influenced by your use of the process and your willingness to be so open. It certainly increases my motivation. My own experience with responding here at ucp has led to my being a bit hesitant at times. I've seen two other women leave the group and my impression was that they didn't feel this was a conducive environment for change. That was what both of them told me after they left the group. Once I know more from my own experience, I will write them and let them know how it is for me. My own experience is that I want to know for myself and if this works as it is reported to work, I will be a little guarded about what I say here in the group but I will continue with the process. I am with you that I would feel some upset if someone took what I have written with this particular group in mind, and posted it elsewhere. Anyway, my friend, please continue on and know that we are all interested and energized by your experience and enthusiasm. Perhaps I shouldn't say all, but that is my hunch. ESTHER WRITES: Thank you for your first and second responses. THank you for your invitation which is recieved and considered and at this time I think I have just what I need without having to join any more groups. Glad to hear that you are motivated to do UCP by reading my posts. I trust that you will get out of the process whatever is most useful to you. For ME the most fundamental part of this process was the knowledge that I was doing this in semi-public. I was not shouting and blowing a trumpet saying 'wow, look at me and what I am doing' but on the other hand it was of vital importance to me to know that it was going OUT THERE and that I was taking a real risk. I had to really make that leap of faith and trust that all that was required was to be me. I had to trust that no defenses were necessary. My experience until this point had shown me that whenever I let down the ingrained response -which told me that if something was important to me (an idea, a belief, a way of looking at things) then I had to hide it, to defend it, to protect it, or I was in danger of losing it- it actually made it through to the other person what I was trying to convey and they saw what I saw. Whether or not they agreed with what I saw was not the point. The point was they saw it exactly as I saw it and therefore at that moment it was reproduced exactly as I saw it. That was enough for me to know that it was true. What they made of it after they saw it was up to them. The thing was that I saw something. I communicated that thing to her. She saw it, so I had succeeded in proving to myself that I had successfully conveyed what I saw. After I did that she might disbelieve that I saw what she is seeing but her reaction tells me the truth. After all I KNOW what I saw because I SAW IT! If I see the same thing reflected back from her to me then I know I have communicated. I recieve confirmation that it is real. Communication is real. She doesn't KNOW what I saw because she is the reflection. But she can always choose to tell me something that is true for her. She can express the truth of her experience and if I accurately reflect that back to her then she will KNOW that she has communicated with me. THAT is why I made my sessions online and public. It was a very very fundamental part of the process for me. Communication. Trust. And then to Pullgees PULLGEES writes You say this session took three hours yet it only took half an hour to read and all the time I was reading it I thought it was more or less real time. Ofcourse I'm not taking into account that it takes longer to type than it takes to read, but six times longer? Even so there must have been tons of thoughts you had that could not be included because the stream of thoughts is certainly much faster than the speed of reading and much much faster than the speed of typing. You didn't tell us about any problems with typing errors or any distractions in the room, that would have been interesting... only joking. It seems to me this method of doing your sessions is causing you to put yout attention on the format too much, ie the written word and how we are receiving it. Okay this is where you are but is it the best method for you? Where might you be? If someone was doing UCP while doing handstands and sucking spagetti would they be getting the most out of their session? Would it not be better to do the session with out the keyboard and give us a synopsis of the session afterwards? By the way it looked like you forgot to do comparisons. Best of luck Pullgees ESTHER WRITES: Thank you for your comments, I especially like the image of the UPeon standing on head eating spaghetti! I trust that you have read the comments above and the fact was that my focus was on being as REAL as possible. I wanted to know for sure that I wasn't trying to hide. That I wanted to be ME without censorship. I wanted to know that I wouldn't cop out at the last minute and fail to shout to someone else the truth about what was going on with me. My best imagined way of doing that was to see myself sitting at the computer, typing my thoughts exactly as they occured and hitting the send button before I had a chance to re-read. That way I thought I could be sure I wasn't putting in any subtle defenses that would dilute the 100% Esther effect. I was afraid that if I did it away from the computer I would lose my resolve. I thought it was neccessary for me to believe that everything was at stake. That it was all or nothing. This is what I think I meant about having a real witness in my first post. I think that is what I was considering. When I truly believe there is another person out there seeing ME, as I am THEN there is a risk. If I keep the thoughts to myself I am still afraid of what will happen if I take off all the restraining orders and I start to be me. What I wanted as much as anything else was to give myself the opportunity to take that risk. To say, well actually guys (& gals) this is REALLY ME, Esther 100% and that is of course very scary. What if you reject me etc. etc. re-read all those thoughts above about the posting of my sessions on the alt. lists. That was the whole point for me. So I thought typing on the screen and then sending straight away was the best fail-safe way I could think of to stop me from censoring myself. While i take what you say about the focus on the format the point is that THAT WAS where my AWARENESS was, because THAT is what I was involved in doing, and THAT is in my experience what UCP is all about. My experience is that there is no right or wrong place for the awareness to be. So my awareness was on the format, so what? That was the perfect place for it to be. Okay, so I re-read your post and you acknowledge that. Thanks! And then you say is it the best method for me. Well, the method I choose at the moment I choose it is the best method for that moment. That is the best answer that I can give you for the time being. And to answer your question in another way, my fifth session was unintentionally done away from the computer. It happened by accident so to speak (OH but then surely nothing is a complete accident??!#*) And yes it had a different flavour which you will get the chance to savour once I write it up. Thank you for taking the time to share your response with me so that I could respond to YOU! Oh, and one more thing. I found myself slightly rattled by your comment about the comparisons. Perhaps you were joking I find it difficult to tell from your tone but my first thought was 'didn't he get the point atall!! All that talking about how I was focusing too much on the structure and then he tells me that I was not focusing on the structure enough because I missed out one of the stages. Get your line of argument straight man.' THat was what I thought. Ha ha, yes so you made your point oh King or is that Queen of jokes (I'm laughing here incase you can't quite get the tone;-). You managed to point out to me that I was still hung up on style even after all that. Even after everything that happened in session 5. Thing is actually I don't care about comparisons. I care about being ME. Thank you for reminding me of that. I got angry. I shared it with you. I looked at it. I laughed. I learnt something. Incidentally, just one more thing. After re-reading your post again I find that I am on the defensive because I feel as though you are telling me what I should be doing. Future I imagine a situation in which my initial reaction may have been less defensive and I might have been more open to hearing what you were actually trying to say. I imagine reading words such as 'Typing away from the computer really works for me- you could try that.' or 'I would be interested to see what you wrote and what you focused on if you did the session away from the computer and then typed it up afterwards.' or I imagine that I would still understand what you were saying if you did the session and wrote a short series of notes afterwards summarising.' or 'I get bored of reading reports that go on for a while, any chance of keeping it shorter.' Comparison (see I remembered thanks to you!) In the future place I think I see where the thoughts were coming from and I recognise that they are your thoughts. In the other place I initially saw them as an attack on ME. OK, so it doesn't matter, I get to see them as your thoughts anyway. You see it doesn't matter what you write. I will make of it what I will. What matters to me is what I do with what you write. Only listen to me if you are interested in what I have to say. Of course if you aren't interested you won't listen anyway. There is a natural filter at work there called interest. All my thoughts come from some place linked to my experience and I try to make that as clear as possible where they have come from. My intention in doing so is to make the reader aware that all of this is ME, all of this is about me, if I am writing about you it is ME writing about you so I don't want you to think that what I am saying is a direct attempt to hit you. Its just my experience talking here, please don't take it personally but please accept that there is a good chance that what I say will be mirroring SOMETHING at you. That HAS been my experience. The point is that I want to see YOU, all of YOU. The real YOU. I want to see where the thoughts have come from, the origin. The flame. Not just the smoke. Make of that what you will. Esther. CHeers! I'll be back to post my report on session 5 this afternoon. Watch this space, I will be..... ============== KP REPLIES TO ESTHER ============== At 03:34 AM 6/4/2002 -0000, Esther writes: >Hello again, > >Thank you for all your comments once again. This time I have three >of you to respond to. > >First KP, well what do I want to say to you.... (sorry that I am >choosing not to duplicate your comments here but that would mean >creating a huge file size as they are linked in with mine. I have to >get to a rehearsal asap- I'm already late- but I want to post this >asap too so let me know if in the future you want my response to >include yours at all costs. Hope you understand. I will hear and >respect your response.) I don't understand what you are trying to say here. I am very interested in both your originations and your responses! How have I not included my responses? I'm not getting something about this. I don't care about file sizes at all! >Mostly I want to tell you that I've completed my fifth session and it >is dedicated to you, but I will have to leave it until later to write it up. Way Cool! >Yes, it was done away from the computer, and I am suffering >some frustration in having a time lag in making it available to you >but it will be done as soon as I have completed the tasks that are >necessary in my day today. Way Cool! I was wondering if you were going to experiment with another method of writing up . . . afterwards. >As far as the posting issue goes thank >you for your honest (as always I expect and want nothing less from >you) response. The reason I chose this ucplist was because > >In the Past >I had read so many posts on those other lists which were concerned >with bitching and backstabbing, and basically did not seem to be >written with any intention of self awareness. I was looking >primarily for a place where I thought the main intention of the group >was to focus on DOING and on EXPERIENCING through self-awareness. MUST BE TRUE! HERE YOU ARE! >I saw the other lists as an example of places where the posters have no >conscious awareness of their motivation in making that post when so >much of it seems to be focused on OTHERS. I wanted to be in a place >where people are focused on THEMSELVES, on their own experience. YES. >Where they are not afraid to be honest, to be expressing their >underlying thoughts and not just skimming the stuff that whizzes by >on the upper surface. In my experience bitching about others and >putting others down happens when I am not conscious of the real >reason why I am annoyed by that persons actions/ behaviour. ON those >occasions when I have looked closely at what is going on with ME I >have learnt something that is very valuable and of which I was >previously unaware. Other people are important to me because they >act as mirrors with which I can see various parts of myself. I understand. >I wanted to be in a place that would understand my intention. I >wanted to be in a place where there were at least some other people >who would be conscious of holding the same intention. I needed to >find a place where I thought I could be ME and be understood. Where >I would truly be listened to, where my words were important because >someone else would attempt to hear what I was ACTUALLY saying and >respond to that. I thought this particular list represented that >place for me. I was reassured by the response to my very first post >that I had indeed been heard. That my actual intention had been >recieved and mirrored back to me. I felt that at last I was >recieving confirmation from an outside source -YES, I want to see >YOU, the real YOU and nothing but the real YOU. Whatever that is, is >what I want to see and nothing less will do. If someone else was >willing to see me like that then I was willing to be completely >honest and not hide any more. If that is what you want then maybe it >is ok for me to want that too. You allowed me the chance to be me. >You said it was ok, not just ok but that is actually what you >wanted. That happened because I felt comfortable on this list. I >trusted that on this list the emphasis was on looking beyond the >frothy surface of reaction and counter-reaction and on getting to the >truth of each persons experience. I did not think that any >alt.clearing list was a place where these kind of thoughts were on >the mind of any of the posters. I have not personally seen any >evidence to the contrary. That is why I made my initial decision. Cool! I understand your attitude. I was hoping to wake up some of the lurkers with YOUR call to charms. >I was dismayed to see my posts appear on those lists because I had >disregarded all the people who had posted there. I had put them in >this category of 'losers', people without self awareness. I understand that many of the posters ARE exactly that. I post for the lurkers who are LOOKING or SEEKING. I was not desiring to dismay you. >I knew >that you had posted on that list but you were exempted from the >category of loser because you were the originator of UCP and that was >what I was interested in. I had read some post that you had written >that appeared to be full of comments that were focused on another >person and bitching about him/her. Sorry I don't remember the >details but that is how it seemed to me at the time. Not a problem. I regularly savage some of the criminal liars on alt.clearing.technology. >Comments on >another person that did not appear to be consistent with my idea of a >person who was focused on being constructive and aiming for conscious >self awareness. OK! >I am the first to admit that I have no idea what >prompted you to make that posting or anything about the person you >were writing about let alone yourself! The point is that this is the >effect I experienced- that is what prompted my response. I was >disappointed to see comments like that but I was aware that I had not >seen anything like that on this list when I took a quick sample of >the contents. So my thought was 'so what if he does bitch, it seems >like it is done on the 'we all love to bitch about others and not >look at ourselves or our experience' lists, and not on the ucplist. The UCP-List IS much more focused than alt.clearing.technology, and is much like what I hope alt.ucp will soon become. A lot of the crap on alt.clearing.technology is refuting the lies of $pyontology. >Up to you of course what the hell you want to do, as you will do what >the hell you want to do and quite rightly too. The point was that >for the time being I wanted to feel in some measure safe. I felt >cared for when I got your reactions. Excellent! You made me care! I had no choice! >When I saw the post go onto what had become the 'bitching >unconstructive lists' in my mind I was dismayed because I thought >HELP, this is ME, pure ME, untempered ME going out here and they >could just S A V A G E me. They don't care about me. They don't >care if I am trying to be true to who/what I am. They will make fun >of me. They will laugh at me. They will slaughter and murder me. >They won't understand what I am attempting to do. They will hurt >me. They will take me apart. They will invalidate me. They will >tell me I don't know what the fuck I am talking about. They will >tell me that I am a loser. They will tell me that I am a pretentious >wanker who doesn't know my arse from my head. They will tell me that >I am kidding myself. And here I was insulting then and slapping them in the face with a newcomer who GETS IT in the first session and does more in three days than they have in 3 or 30 years! It never occured to me that you could be intimidated by those idiOTs. Sorry! >And then what? > >Once they have done that I will be taken apart. I will be convinced >that I am a pretentious wanker. I will be convinced that it was a >stupid idea in the first place to try and be completely and 100% >honest and to try and share that with others. I will see that to >attempt real, honest communication is a crazy ideal that cannot be >attained. I will be beaten and sore. I will have lost my hope. MIGHT BE! >Yes. I was afraid. Afraid of what the imagined THEY could do to >me. Actually I was rather relieved to see that the imagined THEY >hadn't even got around to writing any response to my post- thank the >stars. You are SO far over their heads they don't even know you exist. Learning before lecturing catapults you way out of their league! >But I was still afraid. I still thought they had the power >to take something away from me. I still thought I had to defend >myself from something. So I asked for time. > >So now I got time, what of it? Well, the 5th session changed >everything. Doesn't matter where the posts go. Put them where the >hell you want including this one. All they are is the truth anyway, >my truth, ME expressing honestly what is going on with me. No-one >can take that away from me. That is what I realise after my 5th >session. I'M *SERIOUSLY* IN LOVE! You are getting it SO FAST! >Can't wait to get it up here so you can read it anyway. I enjoy knowing it's coming! >Oh and one final comment for KP. >You are my best mirror. Way Cool! >You accurately reflect back to me what I put out. The ocean does not choose to reflect the sun. >You are clear. I don't claim that, but I AM clear about some things. >YOU are the closest thing to a true reflection >as I have EVER seen to this date. Way Cool! >THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU You're welcome! Your presence here is a huge gift to me. >I only hope that I can be the clearest most >accurate reflection for you. With love, Esther. What a co-incitance! My fantasy too! >And then to Judy. > >JUDY WRITES: > >Hi Esther, > >Though I may not comment each time, I do want you to know that I am >influenced by your use of the process and your willingness to be so >open. It certainly increases my motivation. My own experience with >responding here at ucp has led to my being a bit hesitant at times. >I've seen two other women leave the group and my impression was that >they didn't feel this was a conducive environment for change. That >was >what both of them told me after they left the group. > >Once I know more from my own experience, I will write them and let >them >know how it is for me. > >My own experience is that I want to know for myself and if this works >as >it is reported to work, I will be a little guarded about what I say >here >in the group but I will continue with the process. > >I am with you that I would feel some upset if someone took what I have >written with this particular group in mind, and posted it elsewhere. > >Anyway, my friend, please continue on and know that we are all >interested and energized by your experience and enthusiasm. Perhaps I >shouldn't say all, but that is my hunch. > >ESTHER WRITES: > >Thank you for your first and second responses. THank you for your >invitation which is recieved and considered and at this time I think >I have just what I need without having to join any more groups. Glad >to hear that you are motivated to do UCP by reading my posts. You wanted be a writer? You ARE a writer! >I trust that you will get out of the process whatever is most useful to >you. For ME the most fundamental part of this process was the >knowledge that I was doing this in semi-public. I was not shouting >and blowing a trumpet saying 'wow, look at me and what I am doing' >but on the other hand it was of vital importance to me to know that >it was going OUT THERE and that I was taking a real risk. I had to >really make that leap of faith and trust that all that was required >was to be me. I had to trust that no defenses were necessary. My >experience until this point had shown me that whenever I let down the >ingrained response -which told me that if something was important to >me (an idea, a belief, a way of looking at things) then I had to hide >it, to defend it, to protect it, or I was in danger of losing it- HIDING > it actually made it through to the other person what I was trying to >convey and they saw what I saw. Whether or not they agreed with what >I saw was not the point. The point was they saw it exactly as I saw >it and therefore at that moment it was reproduced exactly as I saw >it. That was enough for me to know that it was true. What they made >of it after they saw it was up to them. The thing was that I saw >something. I communicated that thing to her. She saw it, so I had >succeeded in proving to myself that I had successfully conveyed what >I saw. After I did that she might disbelieve that I saw what she is >seeing but her reaction tells me the truth. After all I KNOW what I >saw because I SAW IT! If I see the same thing reflected back from >her to me then I know I have communicated. I recieve confirmation >that it is real. Communication is real. She doesn't KNOW what I saw >because she is the reflection. But she can always choose to tell me >something that is true for her. She can express the truth of her >experience and if I accurately reflect that back to her then she will >KNOW that she has communicated with me. THAT is why I made my >sessions online and public. It was a very very fundamental part of >the process for me. Communication. Trust. > > > >And then to Pullgees > >PULLGEES writes > >You say this session took three hours yet it only took half an hour >to read and all the time I was reading it I thought it was more or >less real time. Ofcourse I'm not taking into account that it takes >longer to type than it takes to read, but six times longer? Even so >there must have been tons of thoughts you had that could not be >included because the stream of thoughts is certainly much faster than >the speed of reading and much much faster than the speed of typing. >You didn't tell us about any problems with typing errors or any >distractions in the room, that would have been interesting... only >joking. >It seems to me this method of doing your sessions is causing you to >put yout attention on the format too much, ie the written word and >how we are receiving it. Okay this is where you are but is it the >best method for you? Where might you be? If someone was doing UCP >while doing handstands and sucking spagetti would they be getting the >most out of their session? Would it not be better to do the session >with out the keyboard and give us a synopsis of the session >afterwards? >By the way it looked like you forgot to do comparisons. >Best of luck >Pullgees > > >ESTHER WRITES: > >Thank you for your comments, I especially like the image of the UPeon >standing on head eating spaghetti! I trust that you have read the >comments above and the fact was that my focus was on being as REAL as >possible. I wanted to know for sure that I wasn't trying to hide. >That I wanted to be ME without censorship. I wanted to know that I >wouldn't cop out at the last minute and fail to shout to someone else >the truth about what was going on with me. My best imagined way of >doing that was to see myself sitting at the computer, typing my >thoughts exactly as they occured and hitting the send button before I >had a chance to re-read. That way I thought I could be sure I wasn't >putting in any subtle defenses that would dilute the 100% Esther >effect. I was afraid that if I did it away from the computer I would >lose my resolve. I thought it was neccessary for me to believe that >everything was at stake. That it was all or nothing. > >This is what I think I meant about having a real witness in my first >post. I think that is what I was considering. When I truly believe >there is another person out there seeing ME, as I am THEN there is a >risk. If I keep the thoughts to myself I am still afraid of what >will happen if I take off all the restraining orders and I start to >be me. What I wanted as much as anything else was to give myself the >opportunity to take that risk. To say, well actually guys (& gals) >this is REALLY ME, Esther 100% and that is of course very scary. >What if you reject me etc. etc. re-read all those thoughts above >about the posting of my sessions on the alt. lists. That was the >whole point for me. So I thought typing on the screen and then >sending straight away was the best fail-safe way I could think of to >stop me from censoring myself. > >While i take what you say about the focus on the format the point is >that THAT WAS where my AWARENESS was, because THAT is what I was >involved in doing, and THAT is in my experience what UCP is all >about. My experience is that there is no right or wrong place for >the awareness to be. So my awareness was on the format, so what? >That was the perfect place for it to be. Okay, so I re-read your >post and you acknowledge that. Thanks! And then you say is it the >best method for me. Well, the method I choose at the moment I choose >it is the best method for that moment. That is the best answer that >I can give you for the time being. And to answer your question in >another way, my fifth session was unintentionally done away from the >computer. It happened by accident so to speak (OH but then surely >nothing is a complete accident??!#*) And yes it had a different >flavour which you will get the chance to savour once I write it up. > >Thank you for taking the time to share your response with me so that >I could respond to YOU! Oh, and one more thing. I found myself >slightly rattled by your comment about the comparisons. Perhaps you >were joking I find it difficult to tell from your tone but my first >thought was 'didn't he get the point atall!! All that talking about >how I was focusing too much on the structure and then he tells me >that I was not focusing on the structure enough because I missed out >one of the stages. Get your line of argument straight man.' THat >was what I thought. Ha ha, yes so you made your point oh King or is >that Queen of jokes (I'm laughing here incase you can't quite get the >tone;-). You managed to point out to me that I was still hung up on >style even after all that. Even after everything that happened in >session 5. Thing is actually I don't care about comparisons. I care >about being ME. Thank you for reminding me of that. I got angry. I >shared it with you. I looked at it. I laughed. I learnt >something. Incidentally, just one more thing. I was amazed that someone could read your session write up and criticize you for some imagined error of procedure while you demonstrate how to do UCP at tone six from the start! >After re-reading your post again I find that I am on the defensive >because I feel as though you are telling me what I should be doing. I agree he is telling you stuff, that isn't very relevant at all. >Future >I imagine a situation in which my initial reaction may have been less >defensive and I might have been more open to hearing what you were >actually trying to say. I imagine reading words such as 'Typing away >from the computer really works for me- you could try that.' or 'I >would be interested to see what you wrote and what you focused on if >you did the session away from the computer and then typed it up >afterwards.' or I imagine that I would still understand what you >were saying if you did the session and wrote a short series of notes >afterwards summarising.' or 'I get bored of reading reports that go >on for a while, any chance of keeping it shorter.' But your response is marvelous! >Comparison (see I remembered thanks to you!) >In the future place I think I see where the thoughts were coming from >and I recognise that they are your thoughts. In the other place I >initially saw them as an attack on ME. > >OK, so it doesn't matter, I get to see them as your thoughts anyway. >You see it doesn't matter what you write. I will make of it what I >will. What matters to me is what I do with what you write. Only >listen to me if you are interested in what I have to say. Of course >if you aren't interested you won't listen anyway. There is a natural >filter at work there called interest. > >All my thoughts come from some place linked to my experience and I >try to make that as clear as possible where they have come from. My >intention in doing so is to make the reader aware that all of this is >ME, all of this is about me, if I am writing about you it is ME >writing about you so I don't want you to think that what I am saying >is a direct attempt to hit you. Its just my experience talking here, >please don't take it personally but please accept that there is a >good chance that what I say will be mirroring SOMETHING at you. That >HAS been my experience. > >The point is that I want to see YOU, all of YOU. The real YOU. I >want to see where the thoughts have come from, the origin. The >flame. Not just the smoke. Make of that what you will. > >Esther. > >CHeers! > >I'll be back to post my report on session 5 this afternoon. Watch >this space, I will be..... YES! WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! UCP: TRANSFORMING AWARENESS SINCE THE SECOND MILLENNIUM, ONE BODHISATTVA AT A TIME! ########################################### Your KosmiK KicKbacK to KP@net-prophet.net via paypal.com helps others Find, Learn and DO UCP! GET YOUR DUCKS IN A ROW! http://net-prophet.net RE-EVALUATION COUNSELORS: RE-EVALUATE! EXIT COUNSELORS: UCP CURES $CIENTOLOGY! UU + SOMinisters: UCP *IS* THE RATIONAL MIND! UCP NEWS @ alt.ucp and alt.clearing.technology ANONYMOUS POSTS *WELCOME!* USE A NICK! Newsreader = http://forteinc.com/agent/freagent.htm KP is currently posting via teranews.com FREE news. UCP USENET POSTS PARTIAL ARCHIVE AT: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ucplist/files/ "UCP EMAIL LIST" To subscribe, email: ucplist-subscribe@yahoogroups.com UCP SITE PARTIAL MIRROR: http://www.universalconsciouspractice.bravepages.com/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1114-1023183252-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 09:34:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.86]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g549Y7k29641 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:34:07 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1114-1023183252-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 09:34:12 -0000 X-Sender: esjwilds@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 09:34:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 82788 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 09:34:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 09:34:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.87) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 09:34:11 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.178] by n30.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 09:34:10 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "esjwilds" X-Originating-IP: 202.155.91.142 X-Yahoo-Profile: esjwilds MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 09:34:10 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] Esther 5 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 354 hello, back again as I promised Can't seem to stop saying thank you KP, Past but I love to get your comments. I love to hear you saying what you think. I love thinking that your response shows that you have truly heard what I am saying. I love the fact that I am communicating. I realise what I mean when I talk about you being a clear mirror. I mean that what I see in you is the closest true representation of what I am aware of seeing in me. As time goes on I become aware of more differences than I thought there were in the first place but still the main intention is the same. I see the execution as being slightly different. NOW My intention is to accept personal responsibility for every thought that I have. My intention is to see EVERY thing which happens to me as a potential teacher. My intention is to use EVERY thing, word, surrounding, comment, accident, illness to increase my awareness of WHAT IS MY EXPERIENCE. My intention is to be aware of everything that comes out from me and to make sure that I have properly related it to ME before I decide what to do with it. I intend to pay special attention to those things which ANNOY me, ALL those places which I FEEL BAD when I end up in. Whether those places are real or imagined. BECAUSE....those places are precisely the places where I have discovered that a chunk of my awareness is being DIMMED! When my intention is to hold a light that casts no shadow to that place then I find there was something lurking in a corner that I would never have realised was there unless I had found a light which made sure that there was absolutely NO POSSIBILITY of a shadow remaining. PAST I read the comments of PULLGEES. I reacted to them just as I would. I had MY reaction to them. I Esther had Esther's reaction to his comments. PERFECT But then I felt bad that I had reacted badly. I thought hmmm, well, perhaps I'll just ignore the fact that he just annoyed me quite severely because I don't want to actually tell anyone that fact. I faced the fact that I was holding the intention to tell it AS IT IS, no no no holds barred. Then I baulked. I thought 'he's just plain wrong. I don't need to look any further than his words. It is perfectly clear to me that he has no idea what the point of that whole session was. Why bother trying to explain it to him if he hasn't got the point already? If I have been as CLEAR as I could possibly be and he hasn't understood then he is surely never going to. So therefore the world would be a better place if I just let it slip by quietly that I was actually annoyed by the fact that he assumed he had heard what I was talking about and he had actually missed the point altogether. yOU see, I start thinking about the PERSON, about HIM and thinking that it's about him. NOW COMPARE (still thanking you for that emphasis on the word comparison Pullgees- TRULY you have pulled my awareness onto this issue. I am able to look at this because YOUR WORDS pulled my awareness ONTO this topic. THANK YOU. You mention it. I hear it. I dismiss it. I hear it again. I look at it and then I link it with YOU) Past- He doesn't understand. Present- He doesn't understand me. Past- He is incapable of seeing the truth. Present- He doesn't currently see MY truth, the truth of what I am TRYING to say to him. My thought now is that of course he doesn't see my truth because he sees his own. Past- He completely missed the point Present- He completely missed MY point. That IS T H E point. We are all individuals. I am an individual. My experience is never perfectly replicated by anyone else. You (i.e. not me) do not HAVE to experience MY truth as being true, because I do not HAVE to experience YOUR truth as being real. I will judge the truth of something depending on how far it fits into the truth of what I have experienced. Future Therefore my intention is to relate everything that YOU (that includes EVERY single PERSON who is NOT ME) tell me to my own experience. Past I try to find a reference point from within MY own experience to VALIDATE that I see his point of view as being POSSIBLE as an expression of true experience. In the future place I imagine a circumstance where I would have made the comments he made after reading the post that I made. I intend to find out if it is possible for me to hold his point of view according to what I have experienced. I re-read his words again. In order to find out if I can possibly hold his viewpoint I have to be willing to look at trying to understand exactly what he is saying, and not just reacting with horror to the fact that as far as I was concerned his reply reflected back to me that he hadn't understood what I was saying atall. NOW and so I try to duplicate this process so you see what I mean. So I see and YOU see what I was doing....I intend to label FACTS as FACTS and to IGNORE the tone. What I intend to look for is FACTS. I will add the FACTs to my experience and see if there is any way I can imagine coming to the same conclusion. Oh and just to make it clearer I will add TO ME in those places where I need to focus on having my awareness. My intention is to be in relationship. My intention is to have dialogue. My intention is to be aware. My intention is to understand. My intention is to see what is REALLY going ON. In my experience AND in yours. Mine is there for you and yours is there for me. YOU may not take mine but my intention is to TAKE yours and use it to help me see WHAT IS YOU. What is me? What is You? What is dialogue? I choose to believe that you are speaking your truth. I want to know what is YOUR TRUTH. I want to hear you because I want to be heard myself. I want us to be in relationship. I want us to be in dialogue. It seems like we are not to me so I imagine it. In order to do that I have to rearrange your words so that they make sense to me but I truly hold the intention not to distort your MEANING. YOUR TRUTH. P.You say this session took three hours E. yes that is a fact. I said that and you read that. You duplicated that. P. yet it only took half an hour (for me P)to read ME- yes I choose to believe that is a fact for you. I can imagine that it only took you half an hour to read. Infact now that I come to think about it I am surprised to know it took you that long. WHen i read back over the post after I had written it I was dismayed to find that what had taken me so long to write amounted to a fairly small amount on the page. Now I come to think about it I realise that I was disappointed that my intention which I had thought so HONOURABLE, so ADMIRABLE infact turned out to be pretty poor. So i thought I was capturing some great truth huh? I thought I was holding the torch for those who wanted true self awareness. I thought my intention could not be otherwise than admirable otherwise I would not have chosen to hold it in the first place. I had thought, surely anyone who was sane and able would want the truth. And the best possible accurate representation of the truth and that is exactly what I intend to do. These were MY thoughts when I first came up with that intention. NOW thanks to YOU, yes YOU pullgees, for DARING to have your own personal reaction and DARING to WRITE and TELL ME about it and put YOURSELF out in the open, bare for me to just come back and smack you in the face. I am able to see that I can admit that my experience tells me I made a mistake. You want to know what I think a mistake is? Well, sod it I'm going to tell you anyway. A mistake is when I test something before deciding for sure that that is true according to my experience. And the test shows that in this NOW moment of the test what I previously held to be true above question is changed. My opinion has changed. My experience has changed. I have changed. I have changed as a result of seeing you as you are. When i think of something and decide that it is a good idea I assume that my experience has already told me enough about that idea for me to accept that it is a good one. I ALREADY know enough about that idea, all I need to know is that is strikes me as being a bLOODY good idea. But those times when I remember my intention is to TEST EVERY THEORY with CONSCIOUS awareness one last time before deciding that it is 100% water tight then I TEST. And if I end up questioning something I thought was beyond questioning then I have succeeded in creating an adequate test. I can be extra satisfied that it is a true test of what is NOW if I experience doubting a PREVIOUSLY held conviction. If I can tell from my experience why I am doubting this conviction in the present moment then I know that doubting the conviction is where my PRESENT experience has led me. and it is actually THIS moment I am interested in, because if i TRULY let it be THIS moment then I am amazed at how it turned out to be different to what I THOUGHT this moment was. and you know what this moment is? ALL thanks to PULLGEES for being willing to enter into a dialogue with me, and ME (belatedly) signalling my intent to enter into a real dialogue with him. I mean with YOU Pullgees. AND for that lesson I THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU and you know what- the bigger the discomfort the bigger the change when I ACTUALLY intend to understand the TRUTH of what you are saying. Just responding to one or two lines has altered my experience of the NOW quite considerably because I have let go of something quite, or rather VERY uncomfortable which I was holding onto. By listening to the very real discomfort I felt in reading your words and testing whether I could identify that discomfort with my experience in some way I was able to identify it and then guess what I TRULY LET GO. I let go of my image of you. It doesn't matter if what you said was the truth or not. It changed me. It brought me to a point where I saw the truth of my discomfort. You will know if I saw something of your truth. Perhaps now you will know if you saw something of my truth- even better if you see something of my truth as it is NOW. WATCH OUT it is changing. P. and all the time I was reading it I thought it was more or less real time. E. yes I can see how you would think that. I can imagine thinking that. After all it was partly the effect of the intention I was holding. I was trying to convey what I thought as it happened. Apparently I was so successful in creating that impression that you actually believed that was what I had done until I crashed in with my facts. It took me 4 hours, or whatever, to write. So I can imagine being annoyed that I was sucked in. That I was conned into thinking this was some representatin of the truth when in fact it was doctored. There were hundreds nay thousands of thoughts that were left out. I imagine feeling cheated. Here I was thinking that I'm really getting the nitty gritty of someones actual thought process. This is actually what I Esther claim to be what I want in other posts, the truth, the unedited version of how it is. And yet I manage to make it sound like thats what i'm doing but then WHOOPS, I find out that my intention is fundamentally FLAWED. WHat can I say? Sorry. I made a mistake. I believed in the possibility of something, acted like it was true and then looked at the result. Result- not possible in the way I thought it was possible. I want to make it very clear once again that this is ME, this is MY imagination, i in NO WAY for ONE MOMENT assume that these were YOUR Pullgees thoughts. I take entire resposibility for my thoughts. I wish to state once again that my intention is simply to see if I can find a reference point in my experience for the points that you are making. THat is all. If i can do that then it is POSSIBLE for me to accept that you are speaking the TRUTH. YOUR TRUTH. P. Ofcourse I'm not taking into account that it takes >longer to type than it takes to read, E. thanks. I appreciate your mentioning that you have just thought of a factor to take into consideration when trying to understand my post. I'm sure that is a fact. P. but six times longer? E. if that is a fact that is a fact. I may well have got the timings a bit skewed, as I said above I was heartily disappointed myself with the result. I probably over-exaggerated the badness that i felt. The dismay I felt that the input was not atall correctly reflected in the output. My dismay was 'Fuck, I put all of myself into that post. or rather, I thought I put all of myself into that post and look what I get out. A bloody small write up. I look at the time I started the post and I look at the time now. THe two things just don't compute. how the hell can it have taken me that length of time to write so few words. I thought I was capturing accuracy, real detail and now I'm quite frankly pissed off that the evidence seems to be producing me with evidence to the contrary. so I probably put all of that into my post somehow. without actually having to say it of course. God pullgees you are really PULLING this out of me here!!!! FUck, but your name is bloody accurate to me. I wonder how the hell you came by it anyway. Well, the point is that these are ALL thoughts that I HAD. i know I thought these things, I am remembering them. YOU, yes YOU are just forcing me to look at them and to bring them out in the open because this is what you saw in my post. You saw this. This is what you saw, and this is what I chose to IGNORE. THANK YOU for pointing this out to me, oh puller you ;-) P. Even so >there must have been tons of thoughts you had that could not be >included because the stream of thoughts is certainly much faster than >the speed of reading and much much faster than the speed of typing. E. I know I know I know. I had exactly the same thoughts. Exactly. I was thinking that so it was not the same thought but I went through that stage of reasoning. I see what you are saying as a fact according to my experience. P.>You didn't tell us about any problems with typing errors or any >distractions in the room, that would have been interesting E. Ok so there were typing distractions that I didn't mention. That is a fact. There was also one distraction that I chose not to mention but it was only ONE insy weensy tiny one. So YEs, you are right I chose to ignore it. P... only >joking. E. NO REAlly, I'm serious (ly glad that you were able to laugh about my position as well) P.>It seems to me this method of doing your sessions is causing you to put yout attention on the format too much, ie the written word and >how we are receiving it. E. yes I wondered about that too, but that is where my attention was and so I chose not to deliberately move my attention in any one direction except the one it had already started on. P.Okay this is where you are E. Hey, guess what we agree on something else as well. P.but is it the >best method for you? E. yes, I can see that as a true thought you are holding. wHen I try to imagine a place where I am actually holding that idea I am touched to find out that for me that is a place of REAL CONCERN. YOu are asking me to consider if there is another method which might bring me greater benefits. Thank you once again. i have to say my current thought is that this process of dialogue that you and i have entered into is most definitely the best method I can think of in the present moment. You are showing me all the places I was afraid to look and I'm finding out that I'm willing to consciously share them with you Puller, rather than hiding them and letting you do all my work for me! P.Where might you be? E. Thanks for asking. I wanted to answer that question. I might be where I am talking to you. Having a dialogue with you. What do YOU think about that? P.If someone was doing UCP >while doing handstands and sucking spagetti would they be getting the >most out of their session? E. I imagine holding that comment and BOLLOCKS time for reality check. hope you appreciate the humour in this puller. I need to take a leak. like desperado. i've been avoiding it and jigging my legs up and down like some crazed lunatic in this place for the last about 30mins. ok hopefully you have learnt to take my time estimates with a pinch of salt. and humour. I am most defintely into humour. I am most definitely into having myself not take myself too bloody seriously. Look I gotta go now or I will truly pee my pants and all for the sake of what wanting to talk to YOU well, i'll come back and finish later. I promise see yuou esther. Would it not be better to do the session >with out the keyboard and give us a synopsis of the session >afterwards? >By the way it looked like you forgot to do comparisons. >Best of luck >Pullgees fuck i'm so nearly there but i HAVE TO GO..... ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1115-1023189845-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 11:23:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54BNwS08892 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:23:58 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1115-1023189845-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 11:24:05 -0000 X-Sender: esjwilds@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 11:24:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 22277 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 11:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 11:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.91) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 11:24:04 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.162] by n7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 11:24:03 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "esjwilds" X-Originating-IP: 216.252.171.37 X-Yahoo-Profile: esjwilds MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 11:24:03 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] E=MC2 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 355 Hello, Now it's time to break the rules. My intention in this post is to see just how NON UPC UPC I can be. Crazy? Maybe. But whats wrong with stretching the boundaries, about finding out where intention becomes pretention, where looking becomes staring, where believing becomes a burden too heavy to bear. Here is a little clue. I suggest that you don't take me too seriously (I don't.) On the other hand please go ahead, take me as seriously as you like (I don't.) Bit of a shame that I couldn't get a little two to go next to that C up there in the subject box. Then it would be a PERFECT representation of a mathematical formula. And didn't you hear all that stuff I was saying. Didn't you see that it's obvious that I'm on the road to perfection, truth, reality. Well, ok you think up your own ideals I don't want to limit you to those I can think up on my own- no please I want to claim your targets as well. OH YES, I am where it's at. I'm at that place where you all want to be if only you could just get there. WAIT (you have to promise to say this to yourself in a whisper. It is very important that you see I am just saying this to you in confidence and not to the Whole Bloody World. OK, have you promised? OK, I will have to take your word for it.....ready.....the fact is- I'm just a fucked up human and glad to be one.) how about you? Ok. I've been to the toilet. Want to know what? I couldn't resist coming back to the internet place to take a peek at my latest ramblings on I KNOW THE TRUTH and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. I wanted to congratulate myself on the wonderful sage-like qualities that I hold. OK before you read this next paragraph I want you to imagine an oak tree. The tree is old as the hills. Beauty not in the appearance but in the wisdom which the tree represents. Can you see it? Make it grandiose but a little ridiculous in some minor way. Give it a slightly amusing imperfection. Something which appears a little charming to you but which the tree might consider as an insult to all that grandoiseness. (sorry my spelling is less than adequate for that word but at least I'm AWARE that I'm a bad speller huh!!!) OK so I assmue that you have the tree in your imagination now. NOw somewhere in the same vicinity as the tree there is one of Gods humble creatures living a simple life doing what comes naturally. No ideas about himself but just being himself and getting on with it. It just so happens that this tree of grandiose ideas and the creature who is plain acting & doing happen to bump into each other. WHo can say whether it was the tree who bumped into the Chipmonk- yes friends, for that is the animal race to which our imagined furry?#* (certainly not feathered or beaked) creature belonged- or if it was the chipmonk who bumped into the tree. I for one am certainly not prepared to state definitively that it was not the tree. Yes yes, i know the rules seemed to be that I relate things only to my experience and it can ONLY ONLY be accepted as true if it holds true in my experience. BUT... see, this is different. I don't care about the rules. I say Why couldn't the tree bump into the chipmonk? So what that I have no experience of a tree being the thing that changes it's position. All I know is that this tree bumps into something that is quite clearly there now and was most definitely not there last time the tree looked. I mean if I looked at things in that kind of fashion I would have to count my point of view as responsible for the impossibility of man having achieved any great moments of progress right from the undoing of man setting foot on the moon to the un- invention of the wheel. I mean I can imagine a lovable caveman, his pre-historic muscles bulging, his rather worn looking deer hide from last winter failing to keep him quite decent, looking at me with a disbelieving face as I say 'Don't be ridiculous dear you cannot use my eyes to fool me. It is quite clear that something which doesn't move by itself cannot suddenly move by itself just because you made it a new shape and rolled it on a downward slope. I don't care what you call it Wheel, Kneel, Steel, it all sounds the same to me.' Oh have I digressed. I think not. This is a story and I am the narrator. I am in control here. I am an expert, a narrator of extreme skill and you are most fortunate to be partaking of the murky waters of my deepest pits. Actually, perhaps you are right I could have chosen a better use of words in that instance. Well, truly if you think you could do a better job you try telling the story. I'll give you mine anyway, least I can do now you've brought me down a peg or two. So there was a tree and a mouse. What's that you say? It wasn't a mouse? Oh, and you think that is relevant do you. We are talking about NOW, and not about THEN. Don't you follow ANYTHING that I have tried so patiently, so painstakingly and hearbreakingly to explain to you. Do you KNOW the hours I have sweated. Do you? Well, then let me be the one to decide whether or not it is relevant to mention the fact that our humble creature was a mouse in the beginning of the story. But.... NO MORE BUTS. I will not tolerate your interruptions any longer. Either you want to listen to my story or not. Mouse, Beaver, I TOLD YOU, I am the one who decides which one is the right one NOW! So anyway, of course it could have been the beaver that bumped into the tree. Either way I am not supposing anything beyond the bump. And a rather strange bump it was at that. Each was surprised in their own way. The beaver was slightly ahead of the tree. So perhaps that suggests that it was infact the chipmonk bumped into the tree after all. Surely the leader must come first. Well, anyhow there was the beaver, and suddenly there was this trunk infront of him. Funny thing was, it wasn't there one minute and yet the next there it was, clear as day. But for the chipmonk of course it wasn't funny atall. It was just a trunk. And so he did the only thing that made sense to him. He bit into it. And he kept biting. (ok meta-narrator steps in here. PLEASE help. Am I right in thinking that chipmonks bite through trees as they -the trees- are just standing there going about their own business? Something tells me the answer to that question is NO. But I am not sure. Can you help me? Do you have a better suggestion for the creature that bumps into the tree?) As for the tree. Well, who can say? I can't say that I have ever been a tree. I can't say that I have ever unexpectedly bumped into somthing without knowing that I had bumped into it, and certainly if there was one or other of the 'two things that bumped' that was slightly ahead then I would have been that one and not the other one. So perhaps I should confine myself to what I do know. The chipmonk bit the tree. The tree admired the final unfolding of it's original promise. The chipmonk kept biting the tree until suddenly his mouth was biting air and there was nothing left for him to bite. The chipmonk stopped biting. The tree started what began as a very imperceptable shift to one side and which then turned into an alarmingly fast descent back to a horizontal position. The end. The tree crashed. The chipmonk chipped. That is my little fable. My nonsense. My chance to show that I am not stuck on being serious. My chance to show that there is nothing I take more seriously than not taking myself seriously. Why else would I write such a pile of bollocks? If I don't take the piss out of me who else will? OK oK so it's your turn. Right now I think I don't give a monkeys arse what you think about the contents of this story. You can say what you want and I don't think I'll care. Right now I think I think it's all rubbish anyway. So why would i care what the hell you think about the story? If you can make me feel that I actually care about the contents of my post then I take my hat off to you. Thank you for reminding me that I'm fucked up. Thank you for reminding me that I REALLY TRULY DO NOT WANT TO TAKE MYSELF TOO SERIOUSLY!!! HEY i want to laugh at myself. Thought I already did it pretty well- puller came out pretty good. But if you think you can do better and you want to do better then give it a go. WHy not. It's my challenge. You don't have to take my offer. But if you do I'll be listening. And hopefully you will HEAR the laughter all the way from JAVA to wherever you are. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1116-1023194630-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 12:43:45 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.78]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54Chh607147 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 12:43:44 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1116-1023194630-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 12:43:50 -0000 X-Sender: esjwilds@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 12:43:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 51936 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 12:43:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 12:43:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.82) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 12:43:48 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.164] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 12:43:47 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "esjwilds" X-Originating-IP: 216.252.171.37 X-Yahoo-Profile: esjwilds MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 12:43:45 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] True 5 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 356 WHere are you now? Not where I was before. Future Ok I said I would post session 5, meaning the one that I did away from the computer. I am not personally interested in posting this message right now because it is not where I am any more. Now But I said I would so I will. Past And you said that you were interested to read it so I will write it incase you are still interested. Present Course, I don't know where you are until I hear from you. you may be in the same place where you wanted to read it. You may be in a different place where the last thing you want to do is read it. But hey, that is up to you. All i'm doing is putting the words out here. You are the one who chooses to read them. Ok, so I put them here incase you are interested to read them. I give you the option of reading the report if you are still interested. Where I am now is thanking my lucky stars that I escaped the delusion of grandeur. I am NO DIFFERENT to anyone else. Close shave that one. Past I thought I was THE one doing something important. I thought I was finding THE truth. I thought I was THE torch bearer. present HA HA HA HA HA until Pullgees pulled out a torch on me. Luckily it was hot enough to singe or I may have just passed it over like all those others. yeah, cheers- each to his/her own. That is my new non philosophy philosophy. SESSION 5 (seriously past past) I intend that any discussion *I* have on the subject of 'what is UCP?' will involve me relating to my personal experience of it. I intend to make my first 24 hours conscious use of experimenting with the technique UCP an online record. I believe the first 24 hours use will give me 24 hours experience to find out what UCP is to me. *ok if I can't help making a comment now please forgive me. when I can't stay mouth shut for now I'll put the present comment in stars. Current thought "Duuuuuuh, GO FIGURE BONEHEAD!* Future After 24 hours I have a clear idea of what UCP represents to me. *God this chick is good at stating the obvious huh! Really takes something to reconise what is already obvious*! like HELLO* I comment on what UCP is to me after 24 hours of experimenting. *So what's the difference anyhow, they are probably the same bonehead obvious comments as you are coming out with now. The kind of coments which you may not have noticed occur regularly to any duck that floats on water. OK i changed my mind I'm quite enjoying this now. NOw this is my best attempt at taking myself with a whole ocean load of salt, and not being afraid to show myself up. hey I thought all these things guys, how crazy is that! My criticisms are ALL based on the truth* Compare IN the now I think I see much discussion of ideas and thoughts about UCP that are not related to personal experience. In the future place by reading ideas and theories that are related to personal experience it becomes clear to me why the writer has taken that particular viewpoint. *Did you notice something very subtle about that paragraph. She is substituting herself for the reader in order to disguise the fact that in actual fact she wants to criticise the other posters without actually seeming to do so. Yes, she is cunning. aHA, but I see her as she tries not to be seen. Oh yes, perfect one, I see you as you are. NO different. Nothing out of the ordinary.* NOw My intention is to relate my thoughts to my experience. *DO you notice any hint of believed superiority in that statement, because if you do WELL DONE, it is there I can assure you of that, the subtext is: and you my poor friends who have yet to see the truth don't (oh poor poor undeluded us who failed to hold your fantastically wonderful idea)* PAST I discover that my previous posting appear on the alt.clearing tech list. I am feeling uncomfortable. I did not intend my postings to appear on this list. I have spent many hours trawling through alt.clearing addresses to discover that there is very little there that I actually want to read. I am drawn to the lists initially through a very circuitous route involving putting the word mediation into a search engine, and somehow I came across a description of Avatar.... *don't be misled by her tone, she actually wants to diss people like you and me who are just as concerned with the obvious. That's right she thinks she's the clever one, but she doesn't realise that we are stating what is NOT obvious to her so we are infact cleverer than she is. If she disses us we diss her right. That is obvious. But, maybe there is some hope for her cause you see how she almost puts herself down from a point of perfection when she describes her route as circuitous. Yeah, maybe we are in luck. Maybe there is a part of her that notices she is way up there in the frozen wastes and she could be here having a nice pint and enjoying herself instead of worrying so much about fucking truth and sincerity. WAnt the truth oh truth lady? Ok truth is I just love taking the piss out of you. How about that hey@! And why? Just because. It's fun thats why. You GO FIGURE, you are the one with all that fancy brain power.* Now I think the UCP method is perfect because in the present I describe my intention. *you describe an INTENTION hey! well bully for you. YOU get a gold star lady. Hell, she is proud of it, why not give her a gold star if she wants one* In the future I am able to look at the reasons why I want to hold that intention (or why I'm afraid of losing that intention) THe future place shows me WHY that intention is IMPORTANT to me. THe future place holds a big emotional charge for me. THis IS the plce where I FEEL GOOD or this is the place where I FEEL BAD. THe comparison makes it clearer to me why I want, or don't want the things I see in the future scene. *god this is so boring I can't be bothered to follow the line of argument. I'm just going to type the fucking stuff and be done with it. Find your own sarcastic comments. I'm looking forward to getting out of the bloody internet place at last and having a real life again. If I think of anything super-clever to put in I'll comment later.* WHile I am describing the Future scene I am describing it and not analysing it. *way to go, dictionary of the blindingly fucking obvious. Sorry but I can't help making a comment on that. What the fuck makes her think that by contributing her own re-iterated statements of what any fool can see for himself she is contributing to some kind of enlightened state. WHat is she saying? She is only saying that there is a difference between describing and analysing- once again my stock phrase- GO FIGURE huh! Anyone could have told me that you imbecile* I am just seeing it. I am feeling something about it which makes the scene clearer somehow. THe clearer the scene the stronger the feeling- well that's how it seems to me. * oh yeah, you are supernatural lady, how far out, how unreal that you use Feelings, god the drivel continues. She thinks this is kind of groovy. She is kinda chuffed that she follows her FEELINGS maaan. hey keep smokin the dope, that will get you there just as surely as all that THINKing about TRUTH that you are so concerned about. Just relax and go with the flow huh.* THe question I ask myself is 'Does this feel good, does this feel right? *yeah, I dig it Lady, i dig it, just keep right on with that spade of yours.ha ha* The stronger my sensation that it feels good or right the clearer the description of that scene appears to be in my mind. It's a sort of crystallisation of 'WHat do I really want?' I do not try to censor this in any way. It could equally be the question 'Is this as bad as it gets- could it get any worse?' or 'Is this as good as it gets- could it get any better?' *bored again. get moving.* I was not previously conscious of asking myself these questions but when I look at how I have engaged with the process I find that this is what my experience tells me. *ha. knew it true colours had to come out sooner or later. Look she is congratulating herself once again on her marvellous achievement. Ok so the spade has now become a trumpet. Sooner or later you will run out of breath and then where will you end up??? ha.* I think back to how I started this session. I didn't intend for it to be a session but once I wrote the intention to keep the record of my 24 hours online I realised that was something I WANTED to. * another self congratulatory pat on the back. Look I'm even so good at this process that I managed to get it installed in my unconscious mind. LOOK AT ME, i didn't intend it but it just happened, that's how fucking sorted I am. It all just happens. Yeah, you is just plain superhuman you've got it all so figured out. wHy the hell do you bother sharing it with plebs who will never understand what you are saying anyway. Oh yeah, I forgot, that was always your intention in the first place. You assumed that the plebian masses were not in a place to comprehend the truth. No we just sit in our own shit and we don't even notice the smell. DID you ever ASK any of us about this? don't assume sister.* When I wrote that intention I felt good about it. * god you have no idea do you. No idea that sitting in your perfect white marble tower, that it is all going to come crashing down around your heels. LOOK, i know what the fuck i am talking about. I am talking from my experience and just watch out, thats all I'm saying. just think about it for just a moment. Stop being so self-fucking focused and look to the outside world for a change. It;s all YOU YOU YOU YOU. Look at me for a change. TALK TO ME. STOP TALKING to your own SELF BELIEF. Do us ALL a favour huh* I felt good that I had made that clear to myself. *see what I mean, it's all me me me* I have defined that desire and it feels good to recognise that is something that I want to do. THen I find myself wondering in a vague kind of way *trying to say, yeah, i'm modest really. well, just listen here you don't have me fooled for one millisecond. You don't think a vague bloody thought from when you get up to when you go to bed. Not that I care whether you do or not. all i'm saying is don't pretend to pretend. If you are going to pretend then at least make clear that is what you are doing* ***music playing 'nothing has changed... deep in my heart I am still hiding... feelings I'm scared to feel.......you must love me', OK so I didn't get the words exactly right but you got the feeling*** ok so what if I think I'm special because I notice this music playing. It's my bloddy life after all. to be continued ....sending this and writing the next chunk. I lost a whole post earlier because it was too fucking large for the machine to cope with. Yeah, that really pissed me off so I'm gonna send this and then carry on with pt2 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1117-1023199039-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 13:57:14 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.74]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54DvDd10375 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:57:13 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1117-1023199039-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 13:57:19 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 13:57:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 9264 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 13:57:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 13:57:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 13:57:17 -0000 Received: by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g54Dv4010006; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:57:04 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020603232316.0130b4e0@net-prophet.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:57:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Response to responses: ESTHER IV+ Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 357 On Mon, 3 Jun 2002, Net Prophet wrote: > To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com > From: "esjwilds" > Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 03:34:25 -0000 > Subject: [UCP-List] Response to responses > > > [Posted to: > [emailist: "UCP-list" > [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology > > ============== KP REPLIES TO ESTHER ============== > > > At 03:34 AM 6/4/2002 -0000, Esther writes: > >Hello again, > > > >Thank you for all your comments once again. This time I have three > >of you to respond to. > > > >First KP, well what do I want to say to you.... (sorry that I am > >choosing not to duplicate your comments here but that would mean > >creating a huge file size as they are linked in with mine. I have to > >get to a rehearsal asap- I'm already late- but I want to post this > >asap too so let me know if in the future you want my response to > >include yours at all costs. Hope you understand. I will hear and > >respect your response.) > > I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Read it again. > I am very interested in both your > originations and your responses! > > How have I not included my responses? She has not included your responses. > I'm not getting something about this. Guess??? > I don't care about file sizes at all! She does. You MUST be in LOVE, alright. Common symptom. . . abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1118-1023199699-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 14:08:13 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.108]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54E8Cg18604 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:08:12 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1118-1023199699-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 14:08:19 -0000 X-Sender: esjwilds@yahoo.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 14:08:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 62988 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 14:08:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 14:08:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.70) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 14:08:17 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.142] by n15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 14:08:16 -0000 To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "esjwilds" X-Originating-IP: 216.252.171.37 X-Yahoo-Profile: esjwilds MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 14:08:16 -0000 Subject: [UCP-List] True 5 (2) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 358 *Numbers numbers numbers. ok, can you follow on from where left off my friends or shall I remind you of the previous wonder statement which came just before the break... NO, no you are right. Why would I do anything other than to expect the best from you. You are capable of following the plot. She may not trust you but I do. She may be in a teetering tower but I am standing here in the shit with the rest of you. Sorry, I mean I am standing here in the shit and saying a BIG hello to those of you who are also here in the shit. If you are not here with me I would just like to extend a warm hand of welcome to you and say Don't Hesitate. Any time you care to join the relaxed, the fucked up, the don't cares, its all just the same anyway. What she just doesn't realise is that the people in the shit want to welcome everyone here. It's the most welcoming place to be. Anyone can join. IT's already as bad as it gets. It can't get any worse. Trouble with superwoman there is that she is dreading being in the shit. She is trying to get out of it. She is trying to get to a place where it doesn't exist. Well so what try all you want, but don't pretend it doesn't fucking exist when you know full well that we are here m'lady. Thing is I may be a fucking loser but at least I'm a fucking loser that acknowledges that there are other ways of being in the world. She is so concerned with looking at where she is she forgets to see that where she is is in DENIAL. HELLO, I AM A LOSER, i am not going away, you cannot negate me. You can pretend that I don't exist but you cannot change me from a loser just because you don't want to acknowledge me. God, i"m fucking acknowledging you and you think I am the lowest of the low, what category does that put you in??? Did you ever stop to think about that huh??well, did you. No. thought not. And to be perfectly honest I don't think that you are going to think about this until you are lying beaten and sore on the ground. Well, I don't pretend that I know all the answers. nOt like some people. thing is maybe you can sustain that place where you are high up oh truth lady. I don't know. All i'm TRYING to say to you and you re just too stuck up to consider that I might have something that is worth saying, is that what if you are wrong??? WHAt IF you are wrong. What if you can't escape the shit. WHat if I am relentless. What if I follow you around day and night. What if I dog you and dog you and make your life a misery. WHatcha gonna do then??? Are you gonna stay in that lonely place or are you gonna look at me? Are you gonna accept that the shit places exist? ARe you gonna say- fuck that now I can relax. I have no fucking burden of resposibility. Truth is you don't matter to no-one except yourself. I don't matter to no-one cept myself. Difference is I don't pretend to have lofty ideals. I don't fucking THINK that I have something that others are missing. I leave others to their selves, except when I think they are in trubba. And yep I think you is in trubba lady. You is in DENIAL and I been there. Guess what happened? Went to DD (denialists in denial) Know what they said to me? You are a fucking LOSER, thats what you are. If you came to DD you already knew what you were so you defeated the point of the title. Anyone who turns up at this meeting is just given a CERTIFICATE stating that s/he is proved to be a loser at this moment on this day at this time. So welcome to my world. Thing is it's ok really. I just don't want you to fall too far. If you don't fall then great keep on going. maybe I don't know anything about what you are talking about anyway. The only thing I want to to really see is that as long as you DENY that I exist you aint dealing with truth...And that is the sort of thing you'll never see till you get your hands mucky... Bloody ell if I aint turned into a ranting loony like her. well at least I say what I am thinking. OK lets look at some more interesting comments from session 5 ladies and gentlemen....oh god I have pages of this stuff to trawl through. do I really have to write it all up. we did discuss the idea of edited highlights. Ok i'll skim read ahead and see what I think Ok lady we are going to edit your thoughts here. Don't worry loser will make sure that he is being as critical as possible...you can't lose more than everything right.... Session 5 true, highlights pt2 (more bollocksy titles but hey I wrote this one myself, looks kinda funky to me. sorta technological. anyhow leave that stuff up to her) IT began with a thought. I want to go to the internet. I shrug off the thought immediately. I don't have to go now. I can go tomorrow. I have the thought again. I want to go to the internet now. I am annoyed now. WHAt is it not enough that I spent 3 1/2 hours there today, 3 yesterday and 4 the day before that...and still 4 the day before that. (say nothing of the fact that i have not slept , not eaten , just drunk water and gone for a piss. Since I wrote oh i don't know whatever it was I wrote last night before I said goodnight. I watched an Indian film and when i got home i wrote this session 5. I came to internet after about 1/2 hour rest and then I've been in the internet all day except for a hour and a half rehearsal. So what if I want a fucking medal. I just want you to see that this is urgent for me. If I was desparing about it then I can see that despair getting twice as despairing now. But so what. I am here. I have been here. I am having fun. I aint hurtin no-one. after this post I WILL go home.) So anyhow, I'm kinda desperate saying. NO. NO. NO. WHy the fuck should I go to the internet now. It's not exactly normal behaviour to spend so much time in the internet. I can go tomorrow. I will go tomorrow. That will DO. that will be good enough. OK. and then I dismissed the thought. 3rd time it comes back. Getting into the chain reaction now. will not. don't want to. refuse to accept. Forgot-any action is possible and valid. Forgot that I can discover the intention behind desire to go there without actually going there. I can find out what the driving force behind this desire is without going through with it. All I have to do is imagine going to the internet place and starting to write my post. THen I'll find out what was so important. It occurs to me that I wanted to do this particuar thing out of thousands of possible options. I wonder how is it that I come to focus on this one thing in particular? What do I know about this process. What was my experience? Well I was aware of the thought. It seemed a very strong feeling. It felt urgent, I had to stop myself from doing it. I don't know where it came from but I do know that it was there. So my awareness comes to rest on the fact that I can do that. I assume that my awareness is focused on this particular option for a reason. Oh but then I think 'I don't know what the reason is' So imagine .... I have already been once today. ONce a day should be enough. My behaviour has changed dramatically suddenly. This is questionable. Large amounts of time spent on a computer. Maybe I'll become addicted to being online. perhaps this isn't healthy. I thought once a day was enough and now it doesn't seem to be any more. What is happening to me. Where will I end up. I'm scared. This will spiral out of control. What if I can't help myself.I need to rationalise this desire. Surely friends in the flesh are better than virtual friends. Maybe I am trying to escape from my real life. Maybe I am deluding myself. Maybe I've got the whole thing wrong. Maybe kP is a delusion. Maybe I'm deluding myself that I have found real communication, a process that is helpful, a process that is contributing to my understanding of myself as I am. ha ha. sucks to you, oh doubting and deluding. Sorry but this proces is designed to give me the tool to look at everything and that includes YOU, just as you are, and what do I say? SO WHAT! that is what I say. It's ok if you want to be like that about it. It's ok if you don't want to see yourself in the light of awareness but Guess What.... Awareness most sincerely definitely and truly does NOT (with bold, capitals, italics and any other emphasis that you can think of) have the slightest intention of putting you down. You are ESSENTIAL, because you are, you exist, you happen, so what. It doesn't matter. You want it to matter. Delusion says that everything is not ok if I am deluded. But if I become aware of what I am deluded about then the delusion is not dangerous. It is only dangerous as long as I am not aware of the cause for the delusion- what I am really deluded about. Once I intend to be aware of whether I am truly deluding myself or not then I can go about finding out for myself. Finding out is the key. Awareness can be there even when DELUSION is there. DELUSION does not negate awareness. AWARENESS CANNOT BE NEGATED. so there. Gosh that's a relief. so all it takes is awareness. skip back. I want to go to the internet. I want to *DO* UCP. no wait, I want to answer a question. The question I want to answer is 'What is UCP?' So I see is as 'What is UCP to me?' I have found my answer. I have done over 24 hours now in a few days. My answer is that UCP is a way of looking at things. It is a particuar way of looking at things and looking at things in that particular way is called UCP because it was named UCP by it's creator KP. I thank KP for his creation. I have experienced his creation as being a useful way of looking at things. THis answer may seem too obvious to you. Too glib. Too simple. If so then so be it. For me this is the answer which best fits my experience of the process. I used to spend vast amounts of brain power on dealing with complicated answers to simple questions and my experience of doing that was not one which I wished to duplicate endlessly. If you want to know about it I can tell you any time but my purpose in choosing to focus entirely on me is coming to an end. I have done my 24 hours. I have got a definition which makes sense to me. I have hopefully demonstrated to you how I came to this conclusion and what UCP has done for me while I was doing if. TWO big thanks One for KP. Who convinced me in the space of a millisecond and with utmost ease that it was OK for me to show all the things about me that I wanted to show everyone else. One for PULLGEEs Who dragged me kicking and screaming to a place where it was OK to show all the things about me that I didn't want to show everyone else. between the two of you, it all came out one way or another. I am very happy that a large part of this 24 hours was actually about dialogue. I am very happy that you were there to balance the parts of me that have a tendency to be polarised. That is the end of me me me. I will write nothing more on these pages about me unless it is part of a dialogue. A response to a question. I have done what I originally came to do and I am satisfied with that. NOw I can rest for a moment. I can take stock. I can say thank you once again for listening. Oh yeah, just one final thing. (can't help myself) My final observation from this particular place is that by doing UCP I was given the method that most effciently allowed me to prove that my viewpoint is the result of my experience. As my intention goes to a past event I find that the particular past event that my awareness is on shows something about how I came to the conlusion I came to. Hopefully this helps you to see my viewpoint in the way that I tried to see PULLGEES. That is the other thing of major importance that was pulled out of this by dialogue. Viewpoints are neccessarily varied. Every single viewpoint that is held is valid when it comes from a place of experience. I intend to always be conscious that I have a choice and I can always attempt to see if I can imagine holding a viewpoint that I have dismissed out of hand. I have been the best of me. I have been the worst of me. Funny thing is...or maybe it's not so funny after all. What I thought was the best had far more of the worst than I was prepared to admit. What I thought was the worst had far more of the best in it than I was willing to admit. GO FIGURE. Sleep well. I know I intend to. I look forward to further dialogue. I trust that you excuse this rather intense explosion onto the ucplist. Please note that my solo show is over. Done finished. I have finished with me solo. I am interested in you and what we can do together. Trash that and make me laugh!! Yes, I am always happy to laugh. I believe that was the point of my first email to you KP. Your statement of fuck ups was the single most important thing in bringing my attention to this list because it made me laugh. You were being honest at your own expense and that really warms my heart. Esther. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1119-1023207792-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 16:23:08 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.108]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54GN6w27002 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:23:06 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1119-1023207792-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n40.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 16:23:12 -0000 X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 16:23:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 24927 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 16:23:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 16:23:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO otaku.freeshell.org) (207.202.214.131) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 16:23:10 -0000 Received: by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) id g54GMvi26709; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:22:57 GMT X-X-Sender: abner@otaku.freeshell.org To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:22:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] True 5 (2) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 360 Esther, Here's a story for YOU: Chuan-tze was gazing at some fish in a pool. He remarked, "Look how those fish are enjoying themselves, darting about, jumping, and playing with the current!" A passerby replied, "How do you know they are enjoying themselves, you are not a fish?" Chuan-tze said, "how do you know I do not know, since you are not I?" I imagine that you will love this story. I imagine you will devote a lot of thought to this story. I imagine you will try to penetrate to the very depths of this story. I imagine this story will tease you. I imagine this story may even anger you. I imagine you will find great beauty in this story. I imagine you will find great meaning in this story. I imagine you will laugh at this story. I imagine you wrote this story. With love, abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1120-1023209333-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 16:48:51 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.64]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54Gmnw24231 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:48:49 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1120-1023209333-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 16:48:55 -0000 X-Sender: maya@directus.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 16:48:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 62971 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 16:48:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 16:48:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO directus.net) (205.245.103.241) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 16:48:51 -0000 Received: from directus.net [12.150.140.228] by directus.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-6.06) id AF6932AC0076; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 12:48:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3CFCEF6F.3FD0CC4@directus.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq1 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com References: From: judy X-Yahoo-Profile: judithw1941 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 12:48:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] True 5 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 362 Hello Esther, As I read your note, I felt bits of pain. It was as if by wounding yourself, you could keep others from wounding you. It was like identifying with the attacker to feel some strength and power. It was like you took a piece of glass and made little cuts all along your body. All of this may be inaccurate. It felt like a wounded sister. Judy ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1121-1023211925-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 17:31:59 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54HVwT08087 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:31:58 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1121-1023211925-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 17:32:05 -0000 X-Sender: abner@sdf.lonestar.org X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 17:32:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 54316 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 17:32:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 17:32:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO sdf.lonestar.org) (207.202.214.132) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 17:32:02 -0000 Received: by sdf.lonestar.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g54HVnw24659; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:31:49 GMT To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <3CFCEF6F.3FD0CC4@directus.net> Message-ID: From: Abba Noor MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:31:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [UCP-List] True 5 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 364 On Tue, 4 Jun 2002, judy wrote: > Hello Esther, > > As I read your note, I felt bits of pain. It was as if by wounding > yourself, you could keep others from wounding you. It was like > identifying with the attacker to feel some strength and power. It was > like you took a piece of glass and made little cuts all along your body. > > All of this may be inaccurate. It felt like a wounded sister. > > Judy Judy, What's the difference between a wounded sister and, say a wounded brother, or a wounded human? Who do you imagine "the attacker" to be? I want to know this because it seems you have attached emotional significance to something undefined, something I cannot see. Should I be afraid? abner abner@sdf.lonestar.org :) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1122-1023220313-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 19:51:47 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.93]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54Jpkx20091 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:51:46 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1122-1023220313-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 19:51:53 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 19:51:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 70075 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 19:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 19:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 19:51:50 -0000 Received: from du-035-0232.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.143.232] helo=oemcomputer) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17FKLN-0002kN-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:51:49 +0100 Message-ID: <005301c20c01$35da6140$e88f7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:45:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] (unknown) Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 365 Esther said; > Past > I am disappointed when I sign on > today that there is only one reply to my third session. I am > heartened when I read the response and think that if that was the > only one then that was enough. > I felt exactly the same when you didn't reply to my post. ;-) But you were fortunate, as was I with KP's response posts. I love the way you described it as KP reflecting YOU back to yourself! That was some stream of consciousness you showed us! (in all of your posts!) Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1123-1023220317-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 19:51:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.88]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54Jppx20430 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:51:51 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1123-1023220317-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 19:51:58 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 19:51:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 66436 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 19:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 19:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 19:51:55 -0000 Received: from du-035-0232.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.143.232] helo=oemcomputer) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17FKLP-0002kN-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:51:51 +0100 Message-ID: <005401c20c01$36e6ef40$e88f7ed4@oemcomputer> To: References: <3CFCEF6F.3FD0CC4@directus.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:16:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] True 5 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 366 ----- Original Message ----- From: "judy" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [UCP-List] True 5 > Hello Esther, > > As I read your note, I felt bits of pain. It was as if by wounding > yourself, you could keep others from wounding you. It was like > identifying with the attacker to feel some strength and power. It was > like you took a piece of glass and made little cuts all along your body. I got a marvelous dissertation of duality. An a refreshingly honest attempt to LOOK at what is. I find Pullgees posts to be both very enjoyable and bluntly to the point. I really appreciate that kind of honesty. As Esther rightly said, he lays himself open. But I would ask you Judy to look at your own response and your feelings about flames etc. What do you imagine Esther would have missed had Pullgees not had the decency to put in his own words his point of view, despite Esther initially reading it as some kind of personal attack. There was a lesson to learn and she really GOT IT! > > All of this may be inaccurate. It felt like a wounded sister. Is that the kind of sister one gets from the 'Brotherhood of Man'? ;-) Dear Judy, I am finding that I am getting 'prejudice' regards men from you. Is that accurate? Is this why you don't feel safe to post here? I disagree with your view regarding Tabi. I didn't see any evidence that she came onto this list to learn or report her *doing* UCP. She came to lecture. That is RUDE! Especially when the lecturer doesn't have the decency to develop some personal experience with the subject in hand. We'll still be here, UCP will still be here when/if she ever decides to get herself embroiled a little first. :) > > Judy > p.s. I've been wondering what your thoughts were regarding the post you asked me to make (my session report). and that's not what I may want you to think.;-) Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1124-1023220318-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 19:51:53 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.107]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54Jpqx20500 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:51:52 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1124-1023220318-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 19:51:59 -0000 X-Sender: neal.pardoe@clara.co.uk X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 19:51:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 6875 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 19:51:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 19:51:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO scrabble.freeuk.net) (212.126.144.6) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 19:51:57 -0000 Received: from du-035-0232.claranet.co.uk ([212.126.143.232] helo=oemcomputer) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17FKLU-0002kN-00 for ucplist@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:51:56 +0100 Message-ID: <005501c20c01$39e1dfc0$e88f7ed4@oemcomputer> To: "UCP List" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Neal Pardoe" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:36:50 +0100 Subject: [UCP-List] Witnessing Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 367 Hi All! My Seeker came over yesterday for our third session together. I was very happy to see him. We had lots to discuss in general prior to the session, not least of which was going over what we had discussed regarding *doing* UCP. The session was marvelous. He got *Full Circle* and told me so just as it happened! And that wonderful rapport that I mentioned before was there to be enjoyed. I'm very lucky to have the experience on both sides. It is VERY startling to experience someone else having such perfect *duplication*, it is pure JOY to offer that to another! We are making good progress. and beginning to see specific correlations with the chart now too. Me happy! :) Neal. ------------------------------------------- A little learning is a dang'rous thing; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking deep largely sobers us again. Alexander Pope - Essay on Criticism. :o ------------------------------------------- UCP Posts on *USENET* @ alt.ucp UCP on the net for FREE. http://net-prophet.net/ucp/index.htm ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors, front doors, drawers, briefcases, padlocks, and more. On sale now! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/JcWolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ucplist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1125-1023226020-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 21:26:54 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.104]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54LQrE13777 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 21:26:53 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1125-1023226020-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n36.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 21:27:00 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 21:26:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 87717 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 21:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 21:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 21:26:57 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.214]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26614 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:26:49 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020604142316.012dae38@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 14:23:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] Esther 5 Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 368 Re: [UCP-List] Esther 5 [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology Esther: >hello, Hi! >back again as I promised And expected! Way Cool! >Can't seem to stop saying thank you KP, THEN *WHY* TRY! *I* LIKE IT! >Past >but I love to get your comments. Mutual! This is my payoff for enduring decades of morons with no clue telling me to fuck off. > love to hear you saying what you think. I have someone who listens and understands! Much of my present life is associated with people who would rather DIE than LOOK. I'm 55 and have again rudely rediscovered I haven't really gotten my inter-personal life to start working yet. I'm still surviving as ME, uninterested in most of the people I must deal with on a day to day basis, because I don't dare tell them much I actually think, and I'm very tired of constantly biting my tongue to get along in life. I'm still driven to communicate so much on the net because I need to establish transparent personal relationships with people I live, love and laugh with in all areas of our life. I've been solitary most of my life, even when running a boarding house and living with many people, because I couldn't find people who could or would listen to what I had to say and understand it. It took many years to discover how to get sane. It took many years to get anyone else to listen. Now we are producing a few bodhisattvas. I want to live in a community of bodhisattvas, where WE are constant Witness to US NOW! That's a big leap when there are still so few bodhisattvas, but it's the critical next step. The more there are, the easier and more inevitable critical conscious crystallization. >love thinking that your response shows that >you have truly heard what I am saying. It MIGHT BE true! I love to think so. > love the fact that I am communicating. Me too! Thank you! >I realise what I mean when I talk about you being a clear mirror. >I mean that what I see in you is the closest true representation of >what I am aware of seeing in me. I see that as reflecting that I really DO understand what you are experiencing. FROM MY OWN VIEWPOINT. We share a profound intimacy of spiritual experience, with some striking similarities to mutual orgasm, but omnisexual and universal. I have been through the universal journey you are experiencing, in MY own personal version. It *IS* the most astonishing thing I have ever done to myself, far surpassing even sex a-la-carte, and vicarioUSly reliving that extraordinary surprise through Y*OUR EXPERIENCE makes me come in my heart daily, while teaching others UCP!. That's a BIG wave rolling up on MY beach! I'll surf that break as long as I live! >As time goes on I become aware of more >differences than I thought there were in the first place Sure. More communication. More grit, texture, reality. >but still the main intention is the same. >I see the execution as being slightly different. Sure! Young/Old Female/Male Student/Teacher Lots of differences! Universal Journey! Young/Old - still remember being young Female/Male - known some fabulous females much the better for it! Student/Teacher - still aware of not learning in many areas, still seeking witness/teachers. >NOW >My intention is to accept personal responsibility for every thought >that I have. My intention is to see EVERY thing which happens to me >as a potential teacher. My intention is to use EVERY thing, word, >surrounding, comment, accident, illness to increase my awareness of >WHAT IS MY EXPERIENCE. My intention is to be aware of everything >that comes out from me and to make sure that I have properly related >it to ME before I decide what to do with it. I intend to pay special >attention to those things which ANNOY me, ALL those places which I >FEEL BAD when I end up in. Whether those places are real or >imagined. Way Cool! Gosh! And without complex negative questions rudely demanding to know everything you don't want to think about right now! What a concept! WHO would believe it? TELL *THEM* NOW! >BECAUSE....those places are precisely the places where I have >discovered that a chunk of my awareness is being DIMMED! When my >intention is to hold a light that casts no shadow to that place then >I find there was something lurking in a corner that I would never >have realised was there unless I had found a light which made sure >that there was absolutely NO POSSIBILITY of a shadow remaining. Way Cool! >PAST >I read the comments of PULLGEES. I reacted to them just as I would. >I had MY reaction to them. I Esther had Esther's reaction to his >comments. >PERFECT >But then I felt bad that I had reacted badly. I thought hmmm, well, >perhaps I'll just ignore the fact that he just annoyed me quite >severely because I don't want to actually tell anyone that fact. SUBSTITUTE an IMAGE for an ACTUALITY. >I faced the fact that I was holding the intention to tell it AS IT IS, >no no no holds barred. Then I baulked. I thought 'he's just plain >wrong. I don't need to look any further than his words. It is >perfectly clear to me that he has no idea what the point of that >whole session was. Yes. It seems to me he missed the boat entirely. Then complained airline food has bad security. He watched someone pitch a perfect game in the world series, and criticized how they held the bat. You put up the game winning three pointer from half court at the buzzer, and he says your form was sloppy and you were off balance. So what? YOU WON! I think he's jealous because he works so hard at UCP and probably asks every question in the correct order, and you made it look SO easy SO fast SO elegant! And while my attention is on jealousy, I'm jealous that he got so much thanks for NOT getting what you were saying. But even then, it IS such a joy to SEE YOU *DO* IT! If Helen's face launched a thousand ships, your lips may launch a thousand UCPeons. >Why bother trying to explain it to him if he >hasn't got the point already? If I have been as CLEAR as I could >possibly be and he hasn't understood then he is surely never going >to. So therefore the world would be a better place if I just let it >slip by quietly that I was actually annoyed by the fact that he >assumed he had heard what I was talking about and he had actually >missed the point altogether. Ah yes. All that PRETENSE social training so we can all pretend we are getting along, until we can get rid of each other and get back to our real lives. What a fun game! >yOU see, I start thinking about the PERSON, >about HIM and thinking that it's about him. Yes. His origination is about him. Your understanding of it is about you, and perhaps now more of him too. >NOW COMPARE > >(still thanking you for that emphasis on the word comparison Pullgees- >TRULY you have pulled my awareness onto this issue. I am able to >look at this because YOUR WORDS pulled my awareness ONTO this topic. >THANK YOU. > >You mention it. >I hear it. >I dismiss it. >I hear it again. >I look at it >and then I link it with YOU) > > >Past- He doesn't understand. >Present- He doesn't understand me. Out of the GENERALITY which hypnOTically applies to all cases, and into the PARTICULAR, which is often true and useful for action. The generality is a catch-all SUBSTITUTE for the PARTICULARITY of discernment. The generality avoids actuality by substituting an absolute statement for the highly complex chaos NOW. >Past- He is incapable of seeing the truth. >Present- He doesn't currently see MY truth, >the truth of what I am TRYING to say to him. A truer statement, leading directly to ACTION. >My thought now is that of course he doesn't see my truth because he >sees his own. Yes. You are reporting about something he is struggling to see in himself. It's probably both alluring and infuriating. >Past- He completely missed the point >Present- He completely missed MY point. > >That IS T H E point. > >We are all individuals. I am an individual. My experience is never >perfectly replicated by anyone else. YES! You have leapt OUT of the generality INTO the actuality! What you are experiencing you can probably read about in books on logic and philosophy, but reading those books CANNOT make you SEE. Only LOOKING at your own experience can allow you to SEE. Once YOU have done that, you can write your own book on philosophy . . . or understand others. >You (i.e. not me) do not HAVE to experience MY truth as being true, >because I do not HAVE to experience YOUR truth as being real. I will >judge the truth of something depending on how far it fits into the >truth of what I have experienced. Yes! YOUR truth, not THE truth! One is a false generality. The other is your actuality. Compare to choose! >Future >Therefore my intention is to relate everything that YOU (that >includes EVERY single PERSON who is NOT ME) tell me to my own >experience. COMPARE THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE TO SELF POINT AS ONGOING PRACTICE! >Past >I try to find a reference point from within MY own experience to >VALIDATE that I see his point of view as being POSSIBLE as an >expression of true experience. Excellent! A good-faith attempt to understand, before criticizing! Rather than the all-too-frequent attempt to find an interpretation, even if strained, that can easily be misconstrued into a straw man to boldly criticize. >In the future place I imagine a circumstance where I would have made >the comments he made after reading the post that I made. I intend to >find out if it is possible for me to hold his point of view according >to what I have experienced. Interesting viewpoint! NO complex obtrusive negative demanding questions necessary! JUST ONE THOUGHT! "Future" >I re-read his words again. Full circle on your mini-fantasy to reality testing. >In order to find out if I can possibly hold his viewpoint I have to >be willing to look at trying to understand exactly what he is saying, >and not just reacting with horror to the fact that as far as I was >concerned his reply reflected back to me that he hadn't understood >what I was saying atall. I dismissed his comment as reflecting non-comprehension. >NOW >and so I try to duplicate this process so you see what I mean. So I >see and YOU see what I was doing....I intend to label FACTS as FACTS >and to IGNORE the tone. What I intend to look for is FACTS. I will >add the FACTs to my experience and see if there is any way I can >imagine coming to the same conclusion. Separating the actuality from the representations made about it. Refusing to be hypnotized by absolute ideal perfect generalities. You might look at DOUBT on the chart. > Oh and just to make it >clearer I will add TO ME in those places where I need to focus on >having my awareness. Yes. Not rational thought but MY rational thought. It does not exist in the generality, only in the particular. >My intention is to be in relationship. My >intention is to have dialogue. My intention is to be aware. My >intention is to understand. My intention is to see what is REALLY >going ON. In my experience AND in yours. Mine is there for you and >yours is there for me. YOU may not take mine but my intention is to >TAKE yours and use it to help me see WHAT IS YOU. What is me? What >is You? What is dialogue? I choose to believe that you are speaking >your truth. I want to know what is YOUR TRUTH. I want to hear you >because I want to be heard myself. I want us to be in relationship. >I want us to be in dialogue. It seems like we are not to me so I >imagine it. In order to do that I have to rearrange your words so >that they make sense to me but I truly hold the intention not to >distort your MEANING. YOUR TRUTH. Way Cool! That's WHY I'm in love. You actions prove your words are true! >P.You say this session took three hours > >E. yes that is a fact. I said that and you read that. You >duplicated that. > >P. yet it only took half an hour (for me P)to read > >ME- yes I choose to believe that is a fact for you. I can imagine >that it only took you half an hour to read. Infact now that I come >to think about it I am surprised to know it took you that long. WHen >i read back over the post after I had written it I was dismayed to >find that what had taken me so long to write amounted to a fairly >small amount on the page. I think you wrote an enormously detailed treatise! There are only a few such exquisitely ornamented examples of UCP TO ME as it happens, like Neal's. Maybe when we get a few more, we could think about a intoductory book on UCP: A few articles and a chart, with the session reports of NEW UCPeons doing 24 hours? I think that might have broad appeal to the 6 billion who are ALSO NEW to UCP and show them how it Might Be for them. >Now I come to think about it I realise >that I was disappointed that my intention which I had thought so >HONOURABLE, so ADMIRABLE infact turned out to be pretty poor. Because those are ABSOLUTE ABSTRACT CONCEPTUAL GENERALITY IDEALS which you could never possibly find in the real world. They are a good first effort, but comparing them to your own actual experience soon reveals their flaws and allows you new freedom of choices. >So i thought I was capturing some great truth huh? I thought I was >holding the torch for those who wanted true self awareness. I >thought my intention could not be otherwise than admirable otherwise >I would not have chosen to hold it in the first place. A WHAT-IF based on a MIGHT-BE treated AS-IF it was true! >I had thought, surely anyone who was sane and able would want the truth. Perhaps pretty accurate as an initial generalization? Which is only useful as a milestone, never a residence! >And the best possible accurate representation >of the truth and that is exactly what I intend to do. But the best possible can never be completely accurate. We now know that from the git-go. So, as accurate as possible with disclosure of intention and skillful execution is as good as it gets . . . in actuality. THANKS FOR PLAYING! LOVE YOUR SHOW! >These were MY thoughts when I first >came up with that intention. You are SEEING your former IDENTITY or VALENCE. Because you have SHIFTED OUT OF IT! You are SEEING your PERFECT PRETENSE IDEAL SUBSTITUTES like a snake shedding it's ancient skin. >NOW >thanks to YOU, yes YOU pullgees, for DARING to have your own personal >reaction and DARING to WRITE and TELL ME about it and put YOURSELF >out in the open, bare for me to just come back and smack you in the >face. I am able to see that I can admit that my experience tells me >I made a mistake. You want to know what I think a mistake is? He IS still communicating! I admire him for that. >Well, sod it I'm going to tell you anyway. I thought you would never say Yes! >A mistake is when I test something before deciding for sure that that >is true according to my experience. ?? That doesn't sound like a mistake. That sounds like a TEST, which is often much better than an ASSUMPTION. How can you know if it is true according to your experience UNLESS you test it? If you already have the experience, then you just need to integrate it by examiniation and comparing. But that brings you to a point where you need further communication from the universe at large, which is Testing. >And the test shows that in this >NOW moment of the test what I previously held to be true above >question is changed. My opinion has changed. My experience has >changed. I have changed. I have changed as a result of seeing you >as you are. Way Cool! And with just four little thoughts! past, present, future, COMPARE! What a concept! >When i think of something and decide that it is a good idea I assume >that my experience has already told me enough about that idea for me >to accept that it is a good one. I ALREADY know enough about that >idea, all I need to know is that is strikes me as being a bLOODY good >idea. IF you run on the computation "If it FEELS good, then do it!" Running on computations can be very dangerous. >But those times when I remember my intention is to TEST EVERY THEORY >with CONSCIOUS awareness one last time before deciding that it is >100% water tight then I TEST. Way Cool! And there are two basic kinds of tests: Internal consistency in my own universe = LOOK + SEE with UCP! External consistency = Communicate with the universe to find out! >And if I end up questioning something I thought was beyond >questioning then I have succeeded in creating an adequate test. Way Cool! Questioning the basic assumptions about questions and assumptions is the mother load pay dirt cheap! >I can be extra satisfied that it is a true test of what is NOW if I >experience doubting a PREVIOUSLY held conviction. If I can tell from >my experience why I am doubting this conviction in the present moment >then I know that doubting the conviction is where my PRESENT >experience has led me. You are integrating DOUBT into your universe as a useful function in some circumstances. And learning to Differentiate THOSE circumstances from meaningless generality and automatic behavior! >and it is actually THIS moment I am interested in, because if i TRULY >let it be THIS moment then I am amazed at how it turned out to be >different to what I THOUGHT this moment was. Banging dead on the DIFFERENCE between THINK and SEE or KNOW. Between IMAGE and ACTUALLITY. >and you know what this moment is? > > ALL thanks to PULLGEES for being willing to enter into a dialogue >with me, and ME (belatedly) signalling my intent to enter into a real >dialogue with him. I mean with YOU Pullgees. > >AND for that lesson I >THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU Thank you for your hextraordinary demonstration of the possibilities of UCP N-LIGHTENMENT NOW! >and you know what- the bigger the discomfort the bigger the change >when I ACTUALLY intend to understand the TRUTH of what you are >saying. Just responding to one or two lines has altered my >experience of the NOW quite considerably because I have let go of >something quite, or rather VERY uncomfortable which I was holding >onto. By listening to the very real discomfort I felt in reading >your words and testing whether I could identify that discomfort with >my experience in some way I was able to identify it and then guess >what I TRULY LET GO. I let go of my image of you. BRAVO! As you now see it was not he! It was just an image, substitute, symbol, LIABILITY. >It doesn't matter if what you said was the truth or not. If it serves as a useful point to COMPARE. >It changed me. WHO changed you? >It brought me to a point where I saw the truth of my discomfort. WHO brought you to your OWN viewpoint? >You will know if I saw something of your truth. >Perhaps now you will know if you saw something of my truth- >even better if you see something of my truth as it is NOW. Way Cool! >WATCH OUT it is changing. Into a . . . . . . DUCK! >P. and all the time I was reading it I thought it was more or > less real time. Very condensed real time. With very appropriately concentrated perceptions. >E. yes I can see how you would think that. I can imagine thinking >that. After all it was partly the effect of the intention I was >holding. I was trying to convey what I thought as it happened. I think you are remarkabian successful! >Apparently I was so successful in creating that impression that you >actually believed that was what I had done until I crashed in with my >facts. It took me 4 hours, or whatever, to write. So I can imagine >being annoyed that I was sucked in. That I was conned into thinking >this was some representatin of the truth when in fact it was >doctored. It *IS* some representation of the truth! *ALL* representations are doctored. The question is with what intention and skill! *I SAY* THE SELF-DOCTORING BROUGHT THE PATIENT TO LIFE. So she jumped in and started swimming! >There were hundreds nay thousands of thoughts that were left out. Sure! I knew that from the start. >I imagine feeling cheated. Here I was thinking that I'm >really getting the nitty gritty of someones actual thought process. AS GOOD AT IT GETS! >This is actually what I Esther claim to be what I want in other >posts, the truth, the unedited version of how it is. Not unedited. Only totally being there with a person is unedited. Edited with an awareness, an intention, and some skill! All of which are beautifully revealed! >And yet I >manage to make it sound like thats what i'm doing but then WHOOPS, I >find out that my intention is fundamentally FLAWED. WHat can I say? >Sorry. I made a mistake. I believed in the possibility of >something, acted like it was true and then looked at the result. BRAVO! YOU TESTED! Your theoretical expectation was surpassed by your actual testing! >Result- not possible in the way I thought it was possible. THE PERFECT ANSWER! YOU PASSED THAT TEST! >I want to >make it very clear once again that this is ME, this is MY >imagination, i in NO WAY for ONE MOMENT assume that these were YOUR >Pullgees thoughts. I take entire resposibility for my thoughts. Way Cool! >I wish to state once again that my intention is simply to see if I can >find a reference point in my experience for the points that you are >making. THat is all. If i can do that then it is POSSIBLE for me to >accept that you are speaking the TRUTH. YOUR TRUTH. "They" are always speaking their "truth", in a manner of speaking. But WHAT "truth" is varies considerably in the different tone levels. >P. Ofcourse I'm not taking into account that it takes >>longer to type than it takes to read, Well then *STOP* pretending that something you know is false is true. TAKE ACTUALITY INTO ACCOUNT! GIVE IT PRIORITY OVER ALL FALSE GENERALITY! >E. thanks. I appreciate your mentioning that you have just thought >of a factor to take into consideration when trying to understand my >post. I'm sure that is a fact. > >P. but six times longer? It may take YEARS to write a book you can read in an hour. It took 30 years to write 5,000 words of N-Lightenment Now! It took Michaelangelo a decade just to paint a ceiling! >E. if that is a fact that is a fact. I may well have got the timings >a bit skewed, as I said above I was heartily disappointed myself with >the result. I probably over-exaggerated the badness that i felt. >The dismay I felt that the input was not atall correctly reflected in >the output. My dismay was 'Fuck, I put all of myself into that post. >or rather, I thought I put all of myself into that post and look what >I get out. Differentiating THINK from ACTUALITY. >A bloody small write up. I look at the time I started >the post and I look at the time now. THe two things just don't >compute. how the hell can it have taken me that length of time to >write so few words. I thought it was a LOT! How can you DO a session while you are having to labor at the keyboard? You are discovering yourself with a side order of reporter at large to keep you extra distracted on life. And making it look easy! Encore! >I thought I was capturing accuracy, real detail >and now I'm quite frankly pissed off that the evidence seems to be >producing me with evidence to the contrary. You HAVE caputured accuracy and real detail. You *CANNOT POSSIBLY* capture ALL of it! Your contribution is enormous. Your failing is imaginary! >so I probably put all of that into my post somehow. >without actually having to say it of course. I felt it. >God pullgees you are really PULLING this out of me here!!!! >FUck, but your name is bloody accurate to me. I wonder how the hell >you came by it anyway. He gave it to himself. It's about the physical effort of flying in multiple gravity stress. >Well, the point is that these are ALL >thoughts that I HAD. i know I thought these things, I am remembering >them. YOU, yes YOU are just forcing me to look at them and to bring >them out in the open because this is what you saw in my post. You >saw this. This is what you saw, and this is what I chose to IGNORE. >THANK YOU for pointing this out to me, oh puller you ;-) > > >P. Even so >>there must have been tons of thoughts you had that could not be >>included because the stream of thoughts is certainly much faster >than >>the speed of reading and much much faster than the speed of typing. > >E. I know I know I know. I had exactly the same thoughts. Exactly. >I was thinking that so it was not the same thought but I went through >that stage of reasoning. I see what you are saying as a fact >according to my experience. Yes. How could anyone believe you could capture ALL of your thoughts even for a few seconds? You can not capture all of your thoughts any more than a stone skipping across a pond captures all the water in it. And remember, it only gets wet on one side! Any representation to the contrary is PRETENSE! EVEN IF YOU *EFFORT* TO BE PERFECT! >P.>You didn't tell us about any problems with typing errors or any >>distractions in the room, that would have been interesting If SHE had found them interesting . . . SHE might have commented on them. >E. Ok so there were typing distractions that I didn't mention. That >is a fact. There was also one distraction that I chose not to >mention but it was only ONE insy weensy tiny one. Howeensy? I guess that's related to something. That you might want to look at some other time. >So YEs, you are right I chose to ignore it. > >P... only >>joking. > >E. NO REAlly, I'm serious (ly glad that you were able to laugh about >my position as well) Laughing with you! >P.>It seems to me this method of doing your sessions is causing you >to put yout attention on the format too much, ie the written word and >>how we are receiving it. It seems [to me] that Pullgees has way too much attention on format, and not enough attention on ESSENTIALS. He watches a perfect game and then complains that the player SHOULD NOT be winning . . . because his form is so bad! >E. yes I wondered about that too, but that is where my attention was >and so I chose not to deliberately move my attention in any one >direction except the one it had already started on. > > >P.Okay this is where you are > >E. Hey, guess what we agree on something else as well. > >P.but is it the >>best method for you? > >E. yes, I can see that as a true thought you are holding. wHen I try >to imagine a place where I am actually holding that idea I am touched >to find out that for me that is a place of REAL CONCERN. YOu are >asking me to consider if there is another method which might bring me >greater benefits. Thank you once again. i have to say my current >thought is that this process of dialogue that you and i have entered >into is most definitely the best method I can think of in the present >moment. You are showing me all the places I was afraid to look and I thought Oleg was doing that. I get the universe all mixed up with fancy complex commands. >I'm finding out that I'm willing to consciously share them with you >Puller, rather than hiding them and letting you do all my work for me! Out of HIDING. >P.Where might you be? > >E. Thanks for asking. I wanted to answer that question. I might be >where I am talking to you. Having a dialogue with you. What do YOU >think about that? It might be now. Let me watch at my look. >P.If someone was doing UCP >>while doing handstands and sucking spagetti would they be getting >the >>most out of their session? Are they sexing up the session with perfect music? Are they singing salutations to the tantric priestess? Is the sauce home groan or commercial generality? Can you imagine an even better session might be? >E. I imagine holding that comment and > >BOLLOCKS time for reality check. > >hope you appreciate the humour in this puller. > >I need to take a leak. >like desperado. Full Circle . . . from the theoretical to the actual! >i've been avoiding it and jigging my legs up and down like some >crazed lunatic in this place for the last about 30mins. ok hopefully >you have learnt to take my time estimates with a pinch of salt. and >humour. I am most defintely into humour. I am most definitely into >having myself not take myself too bloody seriously. > >Look I gotta go now or I will truly pee my pants >and all for the sake of what > >wanting to talk to YOU Way Cool! It was well worth it . . . TO ME! >well, i'll come back and finish later. I promise > >see yuou > > >esther. >Would it not be better to do the session >>with out the keyboard and give us a synopsis of the session >>afterwards? >>By the way it looked like you forgot to do comparisons. >>Best of luck >>Pullgees > > > > >fuck i'm so nearly there but i HAVE TO GO..... Don't worry, I'll take you there later. Thanks for writing! WE'LCOME TO *ACTUALLITY!* THANK YOU FORECHOOSING YOUR ROLE IN THE COSMIC DRAMA NOW! RESET YOUR SELF! REBOOT YOUR MIND! RECOMPILE YOUR BIOS REINSTALL RATIONALITY DEBUG AND UPGRADE YOUR OWN OPE'RA'TING SYSTEM . . . RIGHT! NOW! N-LIGHTENMENT *NOW!* YOU'RE JUST TH'OU'GHT AWAY FROM COMING UP Y'OUR WAY. FIND OUT HOW TO *FIND OUT!* WHAT YOU DO IS UP TO YOU! THE WAY TO *SEE* *IS* UCP! *DO* UCP AND SEE! O --- ) \ Konchok Penday Research & Technical W'RIghT'ER Integrator: Universal Consciousness Plot http://net-prophet.net/ucp/chart.htm Formulator and Disseminator of the Universal Conscious Practice: http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ Recipient of the Alex Yakovlev Technical hExcellence Award :-) Flounder & Prophet Gods Church: http://net-prophet.net/gc/ Philosophy & Holistic Health eBook: http://net-prophet.net/tddup/ REvolutionary Architectural System: http://net-prophet.net/subs/ Better Banjo Bureau http://net-prophet.net/bbb/ Cottage Industries http://net-prophet.net/ci/ ########################################### N-LIGHTENMENT! . . . RIGHT! . . . NOW! WHAT THE BUDDHA SOUGHT IS FOUND! YOU CAN LEARN IT FREE TODAY! http://net-prophet.net/ucp/ *DO* THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUS PRACTICE! *COMPARE* PAST AND FUTURE TO PRESENT! YOU CAN RAISE YOUR OWN AWARENESS NOW! USE THE FREE VIRTUAL WITNESS ONLINE NOW! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From sentto-6247521-1126-1023228857-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Jun 4 22:14:11 2002 Return-Path: Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.85]) by otaku.freeshell.org (8.11.3/8.11.6) with SMTP id g54MEAv27941 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 22:14:11 GMT X-eGroups-Return: sentto-6247521-1126-1023228857-abner=SDF.LONESTAR.ORG@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2002 22:14:18 -0000 X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Apparently-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_3_2); 4 Jun 2002 22:14:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 59494 invoked from network); 4 Jun 2002 22:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Jun 2002 22:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO handel.siteprotect.com) (64.26.0.27) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jun 2002 22:14:15 -0000 Received: from cpu ([205.238.61.214]) by handel.siteprotect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA04399 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:14:10 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20020604151038.012f3030@net-prophet.net> X-Sender: net-prophet@net-prophet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: From: Net Prophet MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list ucplist@yahoogroups.com; contact ucplist-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list ucplist@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 15:10:38 -0700 Subject: Re: [UCP-List] E=MC2 = Esther 5+ Reply-To: ucplist@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 369 Re: [UCP-List] E=MC2 = Esther 5+ [Posted to: [emailist: "UCP-list" [newsgroups: alt.ucp,alt.clearing.technology At 11:24 AM 6/4/2002 -0000, Esther wrote: >Hello, > >Now it's time to break the rules. My intention in this post is to >see just how NON UPC UPC I can be. Crazy? Maybe. An eminently suitable point for comparison! >But whats wrong >with stretching the boundaries, about finding out where intention >becomes pretention, where looking becomes staring, where believing >becomes a burden too heavy to bear. Nothing that I see! You can mock up something and then NOT pretend to believe in it! >Here is a little clue. > >I suggest that you don't take me too seriously (I don't.) On the >other hand please go ahead, take me as seriously as you like (I >don't.) I LIKE! >Bit of a shame that I couldn't get a little two to go next to that C >up there in the subject box. Then it would be a PERFECT >representation of a mathematical formula. And didn't you hear all >that stuff I was saying. Didn't you see that it's obvious that I'm >on the road to perfection, truth, reality. Well, ok you think up >your own ideals I don't want to limit you to those I can think up on >my own- no please I want to claim your targets as well. OH YES, I am >where it's at. I'm at that place where you all want to be if only >you could just get there. And you finally dared to ADMIT IT! What the rest of us only suspected! >WAIT > > >(you have to promise to say this to yourself in a whisper. It is >very important that you see I am just saying this to you in >confidence and not to the Whole Bloody World. OK, have you >promised? OK, I will have to take your word for it.....ready.....the >fact is- I'm just a fucked up human and glad to be one.) Never say *JUST* a fucked up human and glad to be one! I don't think that's true! >how about you? I am human, but not JUST human. Etc. >Ok. I've been to the toilet. Want to know what? I couldn't resist >coming back to the internet place to take a peek at my latest >ramblings on I KNOW THE TRUTH and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. >I wanted to congratulate myself on the wonderful sage-like qualities that I >hold. Marvelous! You completely failed to keep stopping yourself from denying your own ambition, and then you got over it! >OK before you read this next paragraph I want you to imagine an oak >tree. The tree is old as the hills. Beauty not in the appearance >but in the wisdom which the tree represents. Can you see it? Make >it grandiose but a little ridiculous in some minor way. Give it a >slightly amusing imperfection. Something which appears a little >charming to you but which the tree might consider as an insult to all >that grandoiseness. (sorry my spelling is less than adequate for >that word but at least I'm AWARE that I'm a bad speller huh!!!) A hugely overgrown and misshapen ancient acorn? >OK so I assmue that you have the tree in your imagination now. NOw >somewhere in the same vicinity as the tree there is one of Gods >humble creatures living a simple life doing what comes naturally. No >ideas about himself but just being himself and getting on with it. >It just so happens that this tree of grandiose ideas and the creature >who is plain acting & doing happen to bump into each other. WHo can >say whether it was the tree who bumped into the Chipmonk- yes >friends, for that is the animal race to which our imagined furry?#* >(certainly not feathered or beaked) creature belonged- or if it was >the chipmonk who bumped into the tree. I for one am certainly not >prepared to state definitively that it was not the tree. Yes yes, i >know the rules seemed to be that I relate things only to my >experience and it can ONLY ONLY be accepted as true if it holds true >in my experience. > >BUT... see, this is different. I don't care about the rules. Or perhaps you care enough about them to make them up all over again? >I say Why couldn't the tree bump into the chipmonk? So what that I >have no experience of a tree being the thing that changes it's >position. All I know is that this tree bumps into something that is >quite clearly there now and was most definitely not there last time >the tree looked. I mean if I looked at things in that kind of >fashion I would have to count my point of view as responsible for the >impossibility of man having achieved any great moments of progress >right from the undoing of man setting foot on the moon to the un- >invention of the wheel. I mean I can imagine a lovable caveman, his >pre-historic muscles bulging, his rather worn looking deer hide from >last winter failing to keep him quite decent, looking at me with a >disbelieving face as I say 'Don't be ridiculous dear you cannot use >my eyes to fool me. It is quite clear that something which doesn't >move by itself cannot suddenly move by itself just because you made >it a new shape and rolled it on a downward slope. I don't care what >you call it Wheel, Kneel, Steel, it all sounds the same to me.' Thank Glob then was then and now is now! >Oh have I digressed. I think not. This is a story and I am the >narrator. I am in control here. I am an expert, a narrator of >extreme skill and you are most fortunate to be partaking of the murky >waters of my deepest pits. Actually, perhaps you are right I could >have chosen a better use of words in that instance. > >Well, truly if you think you could do a better job you try telling >the story. I'll give you mine anyway, least I can do now you've >brought me down a peg or two. Up or down? Compared to what? Where you is or whiz your wuz? >So there was a tree and a mouse. > >What's that you say? > >It wasn't a mouse? > >Oh, and you think that is relevant do you. We are talking about NOW, >and not about THEN. Don't you follow ANYTHING that I have tried so >patiently, so painstakingly and hearbreakingly to explain to you. Do >you KNOW the hours I have sweated. Do you? I guess not! I thought you were frozen in a block of ice floating in a moat guarded by robot warriors at the castle of TV-news-anchor-vampires. >Well, then let me be the one to decide whether or not it is relevant >to mention the fact that our humble creature was a mouse in the >beginning of the story. > >But.... > >NO MORE BUTS. I will not tolerate your interruptions any longer. >Either you want to listen to my story or not. Mouse, Beaver, I TOLD >YOU, I am the one who decides which one is the right one NOW! > >So anyway, of course it could have been the beaver that bumped into >the tree. Either way I am not supposing anything beyond the bump. >And a rather strange bump it was at that. Sl